Philip Pape: 0:00

What you're about to hear is one of our earliest episodes. It was an interview with the one and only Cody McBroom, and I've been a follow of his for a while. He's had a huge influence on me and he's a very no BS kind of guy that's very much focused on not just physical health but mental health being your best. You know he's a big fan of things like stoicism, right, and not making excuses, but also having the compassion along the way to get the job done. And in this episode this was episode 70, you know we were just getting going as a show.

Philip Pape: 0:28

You may have heard this before, but many of you probably haven't and it is definitely worth a listen. He has a ton of hard-earned wisdom over years of practical experience about physique development as well as balancing that with your health and becoming the best person you can be. We talk about tracking metrics, we talk about balancing getting shredded with staying healthy, pushing through those plateaus that we all love, and Cody even opens up about some of his very powerful personal experiences with clients that have shaped his coaching philosophy. So whether you're new to this, whether you're seasoned, whether you know Cody or not, this is definitely worth a listen. There's a lot of actionable insights, very real information here from somebody who understands the game. So definitely strap in and enjoy this classic episode with Cody McBroom.

Cody McBroom: 1:14

In different periods of my life. There's different things I'm tracking, and when I track I'm literally guaranteed to be successful. And the reason I'm so confident about that is because if I'm not moving towards the success I want, I at least have the numbers to tell me why, and then I can adjust them so that I begin to move towards the success I want.

Philip Pape: 1:36

Welcome to the Wits and Weights Podcast. I'm your host, philip Pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self-mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science-backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits and Weights community. Welcome to another episode of the Wits and Weights podcast. Today. I'm super excited to have Cody McBroom on as my guest to share his expertise, his philosophy, some inside strategies with us today for looking like you lift. Cody and I will discuss how to use data to reach your goals more efficiently, how to balance training for aesthetics and performance to improve your body composition, and how to overcome plateaus and obstacles along the way. We'll also get into Cody's coaching and podcasting experience and how to maintain a balanced life.

Philip Pape: 2:31

Cody McBroom is a trainer, sports performance specialist and sports nutritionist and the owner of Tailored Coaching Method, a world-renowned online fitness and nutrition coaching company. I learned about him through his Tailored Life podcast, which I highly recommend following, and I personally listen to just about every episode, and my impression of Cody is that he's a passionate guy when it comes to strength training, when it comes to people and nutrition science, and believes in using individualized and flexible approaches to help his clients get the best results possible. Over the last 12 years, he's worked with everyone from bikini and physique competitors to TV show actors and numerous WWE stars, but most of all, he's worked with everyday people just like you and him and me, helping them finally look like they actually lift. Cody, I'm stoked to welcome you to the show.

Cody McBroom: 3:18

Holy shit, man. That was great. That was the best intro I've ever had somebody do for me. Man, thank you, that's awesome man.

Philip Pape: 3:25

I appreciate that it's a high standard. I really appreciate that it's well-deserved. Again, I've been listening to your stuff and the listener is going to gain a lot of value from this, so let's just dive in. We all love transformation stories, so tell us yours. How did you go from being what you call a bit beyond chubby as a kid to competing in a bodybuilding show and coaching celebrities and everyday people and then eventually creating the tailored coaching method?

Cody McBroom: 3:51

Yeah, man, it's pretty crazy. It's a wild journey because I was always like the black sheep of the family, just in the sense of my you know, my dad. He owned. He moved out and owned I don't know how this worked because he wasn't even 18 yet. He moved out at 17 and already ran a karate studio. So he ran a Korean karate studio. It was a black belt, he was doing street competitions, he was in magazines, he was very fit, and my mom was a gymnast and backpacker just outdoors person, extremely fit. Her dad was an Olympic kayaker Olympic, uh, he did the rings and the Olympics too. So dude was jacked.

Cody McBroom: 4:34

Uh, my brother just naturally stayed lean. He could just eat whatever and stay lean, played soccer and stuff like that. And I was just this chubby kid. You know, I think looking back, it's funny because and I'm different than a lot of people in my family in many ways Uh, just my personality type, my attitude, like I love my family to death, but I'm definitely I stand out and one of the reasons was as well because I was just always just a heavier kid and the more I um, look back at it and kind of have studied genetics and all that stuff, it was definitely like epigenetics. You know, at the end of the day I wasn't a couch potato. I actually my brother, played video games a lot, but I was always outside, I was always playing, I was always doing stuff, but, um, I didn't eat the best when I was a kid and that ultimately resulted into it. Um, so from being a baby I was a big baby all the way to high school. I was just always heavier.

Cody McBroom: 5:24

In high school I started playing soccer and skateboarding, snowboarding, doing a little bit more. I started losing a little bit of weight, kind of hit a growth spurt, leaned out a little bit and then I tore my meniscus sophomore year in soccer, gained some weight. After that came back junior year kind of recovered. Senior year tore my ACL in the same knee. So like two injuries back to back kind of shot down the idea of going to my. My original plan was go to junior college and then get uh and then transfer to university to play soccer. That was like my hopes. That got shut down. So I ended up going to community college.

Cody McBroom: 5:55

I was overweight, um, I graduated at 17 years old, so I'm a little bit younger for my class. And so there I was, man, I was, uh, 18 years old, two knee injuries already, surgery heavier than I've ever been. I'm 5'9", I think I got up to about 210. But not huge. But I will say this too At that point I literally had not lifted a weight before. I wasn't the high school kid in weights class or anything. I did not lift period, pure fat. And I just remember being like man. I have friends at college playing ball. I'm just kind of back home going to school, cause my dad told me to go to community college, do business, you know, study, business, one-on-one or whatever.

Cody McBroom: 6:33

I was just overweight, I was unhappy, I was sweating too often, I had no energy. At a young age I was, you know, partying too much stuff like that. And I just, I don't know, I had just had this light bulb moment one day, much stuff like that. And I just, I don't know, I just had this light bulb moment one day. I will like, looked in the mirror after getting out of shower. I was butt naked and just looked at myself and was like, dude, you're pathetic. This like not to shame yourself or make it, you know, too too negative, but I literally was like man. This is just unacceptable, dude, you got to make a change. So I took ownership of it, made a big shift.

Cody McBroom: 6:59

And when I made that shift, I just man, I just literally went all in and I just completely transformed my body, um, starting with everything that doesn't work, you know, just trying it all and there was definitely some ups and downs of losing and gaining, losing and gaining. But eventually I found content in like tnationandbodybuildingcom forums and started like reading from other people and learning from them and I fell in love with blogs and content and writing and fitness books, which led me to just digging deeper and deeper. I eventually changed my degree in school to the fitness program at the college, the junior college. My parents both said no at the time because I was still overweight and didn't really know what I was doing, but I forged my dad's signature, did it anyway, changed my degree, did that he found out. Later on I ended up getting an internship at a strength gym in Seattle called Vigor Ground and just learned a ton man. It was like it was just really cool, like I just met a lot of cool people at a young age.

Cody McBroom: 7:53

I got into the industry at 18 years old, um, and so I I started with a really good foundation and dove headfirst and there was never a point where I was like maybe I'll do this, maybe I'll do something else. It was like this is all I have, this is all I'll do, this is the only thing I want, and I never had a plan B. So I lost 40 to 50 pounds myself, and then the transformation went from losing 40 to 50 pounds of fat to realizing now I'm just skinny and I need to put on muscle. So then I started diving into building muscle and you know, I was training people. And then I did a bodybuilding show which got me into nutrition, and then that led me to becoming a nutrition coach and then certifying multiple times with that and then eventually I became a sports nutritionist and I went further with my credentials and certificates and, long story short man, I just kept going, just kept going and going and going until eventually I started my company, which is where we're at now.

Philip Pape: 8:43

Yeah for sure, man, your mean, your passion and energy shines through. You said you went all in at a pretty early age and I can relate to so much of your story, the difference being that it took me like 40 years before I could get to that point of figuring out. But I'm also 5'9" and I understand what being 210 at 5'9 without any muscle is like exactly. But saying that you were unhappy, sweating even at that young age, and then even just the consuming content because there's so much misinformation. And we're in a golden age right now, for better or worse I say for better, I'm an optimist that there's so much great information, if you can find it, and guys like you, cody, and everyone I try to steer people to with the books and podcasts, are a fantastic way to learn and grow today. So I love that story. And then you just kept going and going and going and building and people listening to this.

Philip Pape: 9:29

Check out Cody's stuff, because it's not just about fitness here, it's about the hard work, it's about learning, growing and doing the heavy lifting and there's a lot of business principles you talk about and a lot of you reference Socrates and stoicism, things like that in your stuff. So I appreciate all of that, yeah, so, yeah. So, speaking of, like, the physical mastery right, you've written I think it was on your website that having true power and clarity in your life starts with your body, physically, and I agree with this 100%, but explain your thinking behind that premise.

Cody McBroom: 10:04

Yeah, so this is I used to say. I actually made shirts for clients way back years ago that said your body is the fastest path to power. Or maybe the shirt just said your body is the path to power because it was big on the back. But that's always been something in the back of my mind because I did not do good in school. I wasn't a philosophical person, I didn't read, I wasn't an intellect until I found fitness and I didn't.

Cody McBroom: 10:30

Fitness in the transformation I made physically. It created a level of self-mastery in so many other areas. It's what taught me discipline. It's what gave me grit and willpower and self-control. It's what taught me purpose and meaning in life. It's what gave me more motivation-control. It's what taught me purpose and meaning in life. It's what gave me more motivation to push. It's what allowed me to create more self-belief and eliminate self-doubt, because I kept proving to myself what I could do and what I was capable of. It gave me more confidence, which gave me the ability to take action and take more risks in life, which led to more success. It opened up so many doors for me and I've you know I think some people will hear that and if you're a fitness professional.

Cody McBroom: 11:07

It might seem as if, or if you're not a fitness professional, you might think that that only applies to fitness professionals. Because, yeah, it opened up all those doors for me because I'm a coach, because I'm in the industry. But I kept having all these clients experiencing the same things, like they had better marriages, they found the girl or found the guy, or they got a raise at the job, they were able to start waking up early and meditating and journaling. They started doing other things that they wanted to do because they finally had the energy, the confidence, the fitness, the everything, you know, the body image that they wanted in their mind, like everything. And so I've always been that way and once I went through a program years ago called Wake Up Warrior. I'm not a part of it anymore and truthfully I like it. What they do is great and all it's things have changed for sure. Just, I mean, with the way of the world today, everything kind of shifts and just gets kind of like a lot of stuff gets pretty extreme and you know, once something small gets so large, it loses some of the meaning behind it when it started. So I use I say wake up where you're carefully, cause I just know that, um, things are more polarizing today, you know.

Cody McBroom: 12:11

Anyway, they had this thing called core four, and core four stood for body being balanced, business. And body was your body, physically uh, being, was yourself, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, uh, whether that meant like your religious faith or what you believe, you believe in the universe or God, or it's just like your mindset confidence emotionally, whether that meant like your religious faith or what you believe, you believe in the universe or God, or it's just like your mindset confidence, whatever. It's just you. Personal development, right, balances your relationships. So, if you have a spouse, your spouse, kids, whatever, or your family, your friends, just other people, and then business is your career, your finances, investments, whatever, and it taught me a lot about life, because those things are always connected.

Cody McBroom: 12:43

The way I always looked at it, and I have some, I mean, I have a lot of tattoos now, but I have some tattoos that represent this idea or this story of life, and it's this idea that you have, this quote, unquote kingdom, if you will, and your kingdom is your body, your life, your story, and it's standing on four pillars. And that's body being balance, business. It's these four aspects. Those four aspects are the things we constantly think about. They're the things that we constantly set goals for. They're the things that we are jealous of other people when they have something that we want. It almost always fits into those categories. You know, when we think about goals we want to achieve in life, it's in those categories. When we think about a partner we want in life and we want to see if they have the same mindset or they want the same things out of life, so on and so forth, it's in those categories and so they're all connected.

Cody McBroom: 13:29

And if one crumbles, the kingdom falls right. So if I'm crushing in business, I'm shredded, I'm like very confident, but my relationship sucks, I promise it's only a matter of time before the rest of the ship falls apart, right. And if you have a great relationship but your job is causing a lot of stress or you get laid off or anything, that's going to cause stress elsewhere, if you're super out of shape, unconfident, unhealthy, always getting sick, that's going to bleed into others too. So there had to be this way to let them all survive and thrive. Really right. And what I found was that they always had to go in that order body being balanced business, which meant you take care of yourself physically, then you take care of yourself mentally, emotionally and spiritually. Then you take care of the ones around you, and the business, the career, the passion, the finances. It figures itself out once those do, and so your body is the fastest path to power and all those. It's kind of the idea.

Philip Pape: 14:25

Yeah, man, yeah, there's so many themes like that in life when you think of health, wealth, relationship, spirituality, right, or the virtuous cycle, or the fact that one thing leads to another and placing the body first. If you think about it, that's our connection with the earth, with people, with the things we touch, the things that we do, and if that doesn't exist or in any healthy state, you can't do all the other things. So I absolutely love that, Cody. So body being, balance and business. It also reminds me of the idea of the self-worth, self-worth that you get from improving your body physically then leads to the self-confidence and now gives you the ability to help somebody. It's like in the airplane you have to put the mask on you before you help your kid. Yeah, good stuff, so getting deep here, Cody, as I expected.

Cody McBroom: 15:11

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it, man. You got to take care of yourself before any of those other things kind of work themselves out. And I think that it became very obvious for me and I've kind of used that. I mean, I went through wake up warrior when I was like 20 years old, so it's been like a decade of me just keeping that in the back of my mind and letting that be my North star to direct me through the actions I take in life and it's been. It's been a game changer, you know.

Philip Pape: 15:35

Yeah, and honestly, who would listen to you or follow you if you hadn't gone through that yourself? Right, If you hadn't mastered it? So your ability to impact others springs from that, all right. So let's get a little bit more practical for a second here. On your podcast, you talk a lot about using data, measuring, tracking, using feedback and actually just today perfect timing you posted on your IG account If you're not tracking, you're guessing, and nobody guesses their way to a great body. So this speaks to me because I have an engineering background, engineering mind. I think of KPIs and measures and outcomes, and I love to coach with my clients in that approach too. People talk about tracking as being annoying or inconvenient, but I always say well, how inconvenient is it to not know what's going on and never have results, compared to the minor inconvenience of tracking? So what would you say differentiates that approach which I think is pretty core to how you do things versus other methods and then how that leads to better results?

Cody McBroom: 16:30

Well, I think that it depends on what other methods we're looking at Because to say that I would never say and it depends. If we're just specifically talking about tracking macros A lot of people read that and that's what they assume I'm talking about, which, for the most part, it definitely it falls in that category. But if you are trying to reach a weightless goal, you better be tracking your weight, whether you're tracking macros or not. If you want to reach a new business goal, you better be tracking kpis and sales and leads and conversions. There's a lot to it. You know, if you are recording a podcast like this one and you want to be successful with it, where are your downloads? At how many episodes a week are you doing? Where is your demographic? Where are your listeners? What time are they airing? There's a lot to it. So growth in anything requires metrics, and that's the big point, right? You can't guess yourself to a great result or successful anything really, and so the nice thing about macros, specifically, is that it does take that guesswork out of it and it allows us to be sure that we're heading in the right direction.

Cody McBroom: 17:29

Now, everybody knows that there's more than one way to skin a cat. You can create a deficit in many ways and a deficit is ultimately what leads to fat loss. So of course, as you can imagine, I get people that comment on that and they're like, what about this or what about this? And it's like, hey, is there a deficit being created? Yes, okay, at first you might be able to do that without tracking, but what happens when you plateau? How do you create a bigger deficit without tracking something? Even if you are following an old school meal plan, have zero idea of what you are eating on a on a caloric or a macro basis. At the end of the day, you have to measure your food to know how much you're eating so that you can adjust that food, because if you're eating a cup of oatmeal, you got to make it a half cup when you plateau, to drop carbs, therefore calories, and therefore create a bigger deficit, to lose more weight and break through the plateau. So the big thing is like it's metrics are our GPS to success and if we are being intuitive, we're guessing and intuition only gets us. I wouldn't even say that I wasn't saying intuition only gets us. I wouldn't even say that I was going to say intuition only gets us to success after we've done it multiple times. But even then, intuition only allows us to sustain or maintain the success we've already achieved.

Cody McBroom: 18:32

Because, if you are able to we talked about Eric Helms and stuff before we started going he did a full bodybuilding prep. I don't think he tracked his macros the whole time. I heard him say and maybe he did at the very end or something like that, and that takes a lot of experience to be able to do, especially a bodybuilding prep. However, I don't think you can say that he was eating intuitively. We might say that, because it's just easier to explain if you say eating intuitively. Nowadays we just know that he wasn't tracking. But realistically, he was being very intentional and in his mind he knows how much he's eating. That's the whole point. Is he can do it without macros because he knows the macros in his head.

Philip Pape: 19:05

Yeah, he's turned himself into a food logger in his brain, right. So?

Cody McBroom: 19:08

like, even at that point you still have metrics. So I think my big thing is and I'm a very data-driven guy too is I look at metrics with everything. Man, I look at metrics, for even if it's simple, like habits, and we're tracking right. I want to track my habits, I want to track my scores, I want to cross things off a to-do list, I want to track my weight, I want to track my macros, I want to track my biofeedback, my happiness score, hrv, energy, like. Not all of these things all the time, every day, but in different periods of my life there's different things I'm tracking, and when I track, I'm literally guaranteed to be successful. And the reason I'm so confident about that is because if I'm not moving towards the success I want, I at least have the numbers to tell me why, and then I can adjust them so that I begin to move towards the success I want.

Philip Pape: 19:57

Yeah, no, it makes total sense. Let's repeat that when you track, you're guaranteed to be successful because you have two options Either you take that data and adjust, or you take that data and deliberately not adjust, and then either way it's in your control. So I think that's great for people to hear yeah, yeah, and I think that's the big thing.

Cody McBroom: 20:14

Right is the control, like if you're, if you're, if you're not tracking stuff, you're not controlling whatever it is you're after. So it's. I mean people always laugh when I make ridiculous analogies, but it's. I mean people always laugh when I make ridiculous analogies, but it's. If you're driving a car and there's no gas meter and you're like I know about when my tank is empty, screw that, like you're good luck. It's idiotic If you want to save money to do something and you're like, oh, I'm just going to intuitively save or I don't need a savings account, I don't need a budget. It's just dumb. It is literally dumb. And it's not people.

Cody McBroom: 20:46

People constantly try to like shit on tracking macros as if it's this obsessive or OC, and the reality is it can be. But so can paleo, so can carnivore, so can training, so can bodybuilding, so can budgeting, so can advertising, so can business, so can marriage, so can religion. Anything can become neurotic, overwhelming too much if you let it get there. So it's not about the modality, it's about the person utilizing the modality and how they are using that Right. So if you are that type of person, you need to be coached specifically, or you need to choose a different route that is less likely to cause that behavior. But I do believe if you go into it with the right education and the right mindset, it's never going to cause that for you. It's just going to give you a sure shot plan to getting where you want to be.

Philip Pape: 21:28

Yeah, yeah, I like that. And if something's a barrier to your tracking, look at what it is right. Like if I get a lot of clients who say, well, I tried food logging but it was just really tedious and so, well, what app are you using? X, okay, let's try Y. All of a sudden, that was the barrier to their ability to track, and it's not really about the tracking, it's about the method, the process, the tools, the things.

Philip Pape: 21:49

At this point, having done just what you said, I didn't track my whole life and then, three or four years ago, when I started my own transformation, I did it thinking this is going to be tough. Within a few weeks, you get used to it, man. This just makes everything easier. This makes everything else easier because I have data, you know and I know what the heck I'm doing. So we keep reiterating that for folks because it really does make a difference. So then I mean, you have an app, right, the Tailored Trainer. How much does that, well, tell us about the app? What makes it unique and does it tie into this approach?

Cody McBroom: 22:18

Yeah. So I don't know when this will air. So, as we're recording this, the new app isn't live yet. So we have it's kind of funny, because I basically closed the doors to the current app that we have People who are in the app can use it. It's functioned. But I enabled people's ability to actually sign up and the reason it does because we're transitioning where I've been developing an app because I use a third party, which is great.

Cody McBroom: 22:45

Like when you get started in the app world, there's no point in investing $100,000 in an app and trying to figure it all out because you don't know what you're getting into yet. You don't know if it's going to work. You haven't tested it. So I went the route of like, hey, I'm going to start a membership kind of thing where people can buy programs for super cheap kind of thing, where people can buy programs for super cheap. And it's basically like we did it so that the people who did nutrition coaching with us can find affordable programming. So they weren't doing dumb shit in the gym. They could actually have a good training program. But like having a random web portal with Excel sheets just isn't a business, you know. So once I was like, oh shit, people really like this and they're actually signing up. Then I was like, okay, let's go to TrueCoach and we'll figure out a way to manage that.

Cody McBroom: 23:24

And then it just got too busy because there was too many people in there and then we were trying to get them in and get them out and do all this stuff and it just didn't work. And then I hired a company who is basically like a third party. They are the app company and they white label for fitness people and I was like, oh, this is perfect, Way cheaper, still expensive, but I can just use theirs. And then after a while you realize, like there's so many things that I wish this app had, because tech people created it, not fitness people. And so I decided to start investing in my own app and so we should be done Um, actually it'll, technically it'll be done this month uh, in April, as we're recording this and uh, and then we're going into like beta mode where we test it with some people and stuff to make sure all the kinks are out and we're good. But, um, the app itself is just strictly training programs. So we do a lot of coaching where we there's a lot of data driven coaching, for both training and nutrition, primarily nutrition with people.

Cody McBroom: 24:16

Um, and then the app is is like basically your daily workouts, and there's only so many things that we can do inside this, right. Like so, when we're looking at training and we're looking at tracking metrics, there's obviously progressive overload. So how many reps are you doing? How much weight are you lifting? Right, we need to track that, because if you come to me and you're like I've been following this program for four weeks, I'm like, oh cool, how much weight have you added to XYZ lift? Like I don't know. Like well, do you know if it's working? Like, are you getting better? Like I think so. And if you're a natural lifter, I'm like, are you building muscle? I think I don't know. It's only been four weeks.

Cody McBroom: 24:50

I like the only guaranteed way to know is to measure or to uh track your progress in the gym, Cause if you're eight rep bench press is going up, you're probably building some muscle. You know, a bigger muscle has the capability of being a stronger muscle, Um, so you gotta do one of those and you probably should be measuring too. But so the app obviously will allow us to track that. It'll allow us to track RAR, which is reps and reserves. So, basically, how hard are you going? How many are you leaving the tank?

Cody McBroom: 25:13

Um, there's a lot of features and functions that we haven't fully committed to cause we're in the development stage, so I'm not gonna, you know, say what they are, Cause some of them will be there from the beginning and some of them will be like features that we add as we go. Um, but there's. I mean, when it comes to training, I think the biggest thing is that you gotta be tracking your progress in the gym, you know, and if you're doing that, alongside your body composition measurements and weight and things like that, that's going to be the best way to ensure that you're actually making progress you know, I'm not a personal trainer, I'm a nutrition coach.

Philip Pape: 25:48

So I always like to find, you know, really good trainers or people who have programs to point them to. So it's good that we know that this will probably be coming out in a few weeks. So it'll be, you know. Yeah.

Cody McBroom: 25:59

Yeah, so we even we actually dropped a program. Well, four, technically, two programs for guys, two programs for girls. It's like a four day and a five day menday, men's four-day and five-day girls and train heroic. So you can go to train heroic and just search my name, and I basically came out with something in there and just made it cheap 12-week program. Let me just make this cheap, just so people have something to use until the app launches, because I can't fully commit to a date. No-transcript. Trusted nutrition coaches have a resource as well that they can send their clients to. That is an app and it's cheap, super cheap. It'll be $29 a month and it's like done for you.

Philip Pape: 26:55

Yeah, I love it. You love it because that's I mean as a coach and my clients there's. There's a lot of frustration when it comes to tools, the. You know we live in a digital world and even from a invest in my own custom app, I know the 100 things that it needs to do and nothing does that today. Yeah, so you do your best to work around it. So, all right. Getting back into the lifting nutrition, since you brought that up, people do want to look and feel better. They also want to lift and perform like an athlete. Sometimes these goals are in conflict, right, and this is why we use periodization, both from a training side and from a nutrition side. So how do we strike that balance? What's your philosophy? When we talk about, someone comes in and says I want to optimize my body composition, but I also want to be the healthiest, I want to live long and I want to perform.

Cody McBroom: 27:46

Yeah, everybody wants the perfect trifecta. I think it's absolutely possible, as long as you're not living in any extreme. And I think that's the conversation that has to be had is educating them on the negatives or the downsides that come with going to any one extreme. So, for example, I'll be competing in Men's Physique in October, so my prep prep hasn't really started yet. I got a solid month maybe two at most of just trying to continue to put on a little size, stay at least at maintenance calories, keep my body healthy and then, once my prep start, it's all go right. Now, if I have, let's say, 20 pounds of body fat to lose to get to prep, for me personally, that first five is going to be healthy. I lose five pounds of fat. I'm going to be healthier After about five. I'm just getting to a point where I'm too lean. So I'm already like I can see my abs. I'm already leaner than the average person. So this is the point is that when you break through and get into that extreme range where you're so lean that it's no longer functionally healthy, that's where, excuse me, there's downsides to it, right, and these downsides are essentially hormone dysfunction. So if you go too far on extremes you're going to have. If you're a female, you might experience reds in the female triad where you have amenorrhea, maybe some bone loss issues, osteoporosis, things like that. Obviously, immune system crashes, cortisol level is going to be chronically elevated, which is going to lead to more stress. Typically, your thyroid hormone is going to get suppressed. If you start having a lack of T3 to T4 conversion, which is your thyroid hormone, your metabolism is going to metabolically adapt. That's part of it. Right, all of this is really part of metabolic adaptation For guys. Testosterone is going to lower. For women as well, but it's just not going to be nearly as big of a deal. And eventually, for women, the menstrual cycle can potentially stop happening because they take it too far and their sex hormones continue to drop. Usually that only happens when you're getting like contest lean. But the point is is that if you want, like, there's a difference between getting lean and getting shredded, and I think that's where like this happy medium is, because for a lot of people, getting leaner so like.

Cody McBroom: 29:55

Let's take guys with testosterone, for example. You know if we diet, testosterone is going to drop. But, like if I put you in a calorie deficit within days, your testosterone is going to drop, but it's suppressed because of the lack of intake of your food. It's not permanently suppressed. So if I give you a refeed day, boom, it's right back up. Right, we're not reversing metabolic adaptation here with a refeed, but we're also not compromising testosterone by eating less calories for a few days. It's a short-term response. Same reason why they say if you're going to get your blood work done, do it faster in the morning after sleeping, don't go train or go eat, because those things can cause a drop in testosterone numbers. It doesn't mean training lowers testosterone. In fact it's the opposite. So it depends when you're reading it.

Cody McBroom: 30:30

But the point is is that when we talk about like long-term wise, the only way we're going to see a significant drop in testosterone for guys is if we take a diet too far or too aggressively or we do it too frequently. Right, and these are, like I always call them, the dieting dials. We have intensity, frequency and duration. If you diet for too long, that long-term diet fatigue is going to stimulate long-term hormonal adaptations like cortisol being too high, so the stress hormone, testosterone being too low, the sex hormone for guys. If you go too aggressive at the diet, you might experience those. If you diet too often, you're going to experience those. So we kind of have to balance these three dials or meters in order to find this happy medium.

Cody McBroom: 31:11

Because for a guy who has 40 pounds of body fat to lose, the more body fat you lose, the healthier your testosterone is going to get, because that body fat is causing lower testosterone levels. However, if you go, if you lose 60 pounds when you only had 40 to lose, because you're going to step on stage once you get past that 40, now you're on the other end of it. You're getting leaner and leaner and it's getting lower and lower. So there's this happy medium and as far as performance goes, it's very similar. It's just that if we have a lower energy intake because we're in a deficit, obviously our performance is going to take a hit. If we are not taking in as much calories, it's going to be harder to maintain muscle, which makes it harder to train. It's commonplace, for sure. So it's commonplace, you know, for sure. Um. So it's kind of balancing these things, you know.

Cody McBroom: 31:53

I think that the smartest thing to do is periodize them so that you can focus mainly on one thing at a time, um, and then for everyday individuals who have a considerable amount of body fat to lose, which I would say is, you know, 20 plus pounds of just pure body fat to lose. I see no reason why they can't consistently get healthier, build muscle, get stronger, while losing body fat. Yep, and you know that's recomp, and they would say recomp is impossible. But it's really not. They see it all the time in research, especially if you have a lot of fat to lose or you're brand new to lifting.

Cody McBroom: 32:21

But even somebody who's just hasn't been serious about it for a while, you can absolutely. Yeah, I see it all the time. So, yeah, there there's definitely a happy medium. I think it's just when you take it any which way to extremes, like if you want to be the healthiest person that lives the longest, you're not setting yourself up to get the most jacked or the most shredded or perform the best. If you want to be the strongest power lifter, you're also not going to be the most shredded or most healthy. So, like, you got to find out where the happy medium is for you.

Philip Pape: 32:48

Hey, this is Philip and I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits and Weights. If you're finding value in the content and want to stay up to date with all our latest episodes, be sure to hit the follow button on your favorite podcast platform. By following, you'll get notified whenever a new episode comes out and you won't miss out on knowledge and strategies to level up your health and fitness. All right, let's get back to the episode. Yeah, I'm always wondering about that because four or five years ago I never would have thought I could even see muscle definition, let alone go to an extreme, and I haven't done anything like what you've done toward a show, but I'm very interested in potentially doing it. So people are listening. You talked about having extra weight to lose as kind of a starting place or, if you're detrained, I see it as like you come down into that range, that healthy range where you could potentially live there the rest of your life. But, like you said, then you can periodize it to get down, lean, maybe going into the seasons, like into the summer season where you go to the beach, maybe bulk during the winter up here we're all in our jackets and it's cold. You eat a lot of food and then push the extremes.

Philip Pape: 33:50

So, speaking of that, you talked, I think, recently on your podcast about how you're carrying, like, I don't know, 10, 15 pounds more, something like that, from four years ago to now for a similar level of leanness for your show, something like that. I think it was like 10 pounds. In terms of these hormonal and metabolic adaptations you talked about, with the reproductive hormones and thyroid and everything else is the depression level, is the adaptation the same for the same amount of weight, the same amount of body fat, cody, if you're heavier versus if you're lighter? Do you know what I'm trying to say? Now that you've got more weight on your body, you don't have to go to a lower weight, but your body fat percentage is still going to get in the same range. Is it the same adaptation?

Cody McBroom: 34:34

It's a really good question. I don't think. I don't think we know, because I don't think there's been research. Um, they would have to do uh, let's say they would have to follow up with participants in a med who were in a metabolic adaptation study and then do another study after they've done a successful gaining phase for a year. You know what I mean. Like it would be very difficult. It'd be really cool. I would love to see that.

Cody McBroom: 34:55

I do have some thoughts on it, though I think that number one the thing we have to remember is the primary driver that we know of for metabolic adaptation is weight regulation, not body fat regulation, and I say that lightly, because there are a lot of hormonal adaptations that are caused by body fat. So there's plenty of times where people you know what I mean if you're too lean, it's your body fat levels that are causing amenorrhea or extreme you know, with women in extreme cases or men testosterone. If your diet is super low in saturated fat or you're extremely lean and don't have much body fat in your body, your testosterone levels are going to take a hit. So there's definitely something there. But if we look at uh, like early stages, especially of metabolic adaptation, it's kind of like the whole thermostat thing and it's based on your weight. This is why they've james krieger did that case study, research study, where he took somebody through a body building prep and every pound he lost he added that weight back onto a weight vest and the guy wore like this basic, it's like a weighted shirt, and so he lose a pound, he add a pound, he lose a pound, and he had to wear it to work.

Cody McBroom: 36:01

Thankfully he owned a gym so people didn't think it was too crazy. But he would wear it to the gym, he'd wear it while he trained, he'd wear it to the score store. If you think about it like I'm wearing a shirt and then you know, next week I would check in with my coach and I'm down a pound and I just put a little pound in it, it's really not that big of a deal. After you lose 30 pounds for prep, I'm sure it's weighing you down, but you acclimate to it, kind of like the whole, like Milo with the calf on his back, you know progressive overload.

Cody McBroom: 36:22

So they saw, um, that he diminished metabolic adaptation, he was able to diet on way more calories and, uh, it made it tricky on the reverse diet, obviously, because part of the problem is is that you kind of can trick your body into getting there from a metabolic perspective, meaning your maintenance calories. However, if you're that lean, you're still going to experience those negative hormonal adaptations. The problem with that is that if you didn't have to diet super low, you don't really have to bring your calories out super high after the show. But if your hormones are suppressed because your body fat levels cause you got shredded but your calories are really high, where do you go? You know?

Philip Pape: 36:58

it's like that's where you need that bump up, yeah.

Cody McBroom: 37:00

Yeah, so it can be tough. Um, cause you got to put the body fat back on after a show to to recoup some of those hormones. Now, for a normal person, that'd be great, because they don't want to put body fat back on. However, I also don't want to wear it.

Philip Pape: 37:12

I guess you could just stop moving all together, right, or something yeah, so, um, but it just kind of goes to show.

Cody McBroom: 37:17

It's an interesting case study because it kind of tells us like, okay, like weight is the primary driver of this metabolic adaptation, and maybe body fat levels on your body are the primary driver for um hormonal adaptation, especially the sex hormones specifically. Um, so you know, you know, where does this leave somebody like myself who has put on a lot of muscle over the years after doing a show and stuff like that? I don't know, because I think that equally, you know, I could say, yeah, I'm probably going to be better off, maybe able to diet on less calories, so on and so forth, but my body mass is bigger, so it's not going to feel any different. You know, what 1500 calories felt like to me when I was 20 pounds lighter is what 2000 calories is going to feel like to me now that I'm 20 pounds heavier.

Cody McBroom: 37:58

So it's, it's very hard to say yeah, so it's all relative Um yeah, I was just curious.

Philip Pape: 38:03

Yeah, no, I mean, it just popped into my head. I'm like I nerd out on this stuff and hopefully you know, hope I don't lose a listener. I know they don't. They stick through with these conversations because I love this stuff. So metabolic adaptation then leads to the discussion of plateaus as well. Right, Because you talked about tracking data. We talk about macros, we're tracking all that. You hit a plateau, likely due to adaptation and other things. Having that data lets us push through it. At least that's part of it, and it goes both directions, right? So when you're gaining, you might think you're a hard gainer. We know that some evidence shows that hard gainers they burn like half the amount of extra calories that they start eating, so they kind of have to keep keeping up with it. What are some of your favorite strategies, then, for breaking through all of these kinds of plateaus?

Cody McBroom: 38:54

strategies then for breaking through all of these kinds of plateaus. Yeah, you know, it's before I I say what a good strategy would be. I just I do want to preface like the. The tracking thing is is it goes so much beyond macros because you know, if we're one of the biggest uh would be the word one of the biggest things essentially that happens during metabolic adaptation is your neat drops off, your neat, your non-exercise activity thermogenesis. So like how much you step, how much you stand, how much you walk Me moving my hands while I talk to you, that's all NEAT, it's non-exercise, I'm not intentionally doing it, but it's happening and it's burning calories. So that drops off a lot. And then we have to look at that and and see how much I move my hands and how many times I blink and fidget and then try to replicate that as I diet, like that's not going to happen.

Philip Pape: 39:36

And you're also not going to add muscle overnight, because that's the only other way.

Cody McBroom: 39:38

Yeah, exactly yeah. So if we know that steps are the only thing that we can control, we do have to try to track those, and that's going to help a lot too. So when we look at this and this is the same reason why, if you look at a bodybuilder's diet and they just eat the same thing every fucking day, and the reason is because it controls variables so if they know for sure, even if they're inaccurately tracking it if they eat the same thing every single day when they drop 25 grams of carbs, they know they're dropping the same amount and it's from a controlled variable. So it's not sustainable long term, but during a diet phase it can be helpful. So we control these aspects.

Cody McBroom: 40:11

So now the thermic effect of food is the same because it didn't change. Unless my calories change, I'm keeping my steps up and what I might do is if I go into a deficit, I might add a thousand steps, not because I want to necessarily burn more calories from those steps, but if I'm just adding a thousand, I'm probably just burning as much, because once at first I'll burn more, but once adaptation, which usually, from what I know, takes about three weeks. That's what I asked that to our chief science officer. I was like how long does it take for metabolic adaptation actually kicks in and starts to have an effect? And he said usually about three weeks. And so in three weeks my NEAT starts to take off. But I increase my steps at about that point so that I burn more calories through steps while I burn less through blinking, fidgeting, twitching, moving my feet, whatever.

Philip Pape: 40:53

Yeah, so it offsets. People need to understand it offsets, otherwise it would be a much bigger drop.

Cody McBroom: 40:57

Exactly so. When I track these things, I can control them and therefore I can prevent the plateau to an extent. It's going to happen eventually anyway. But the reason this is so important is because, if you do that, it means that when metabolic adaptation takes place and you do hit a plateau, it's actually a sign of success, because metabolic adaptation is taking place because you lost five pounds, and when you're five pounds lighter, your mass is smaller and your mass requires less calories to sustain, and that means guess what you won. And so now that you're five pounds later, the reward you get is you have to eat less to break the plateau. I'm sorry, it's true, it's true.

Philip Pape: 41:32

It's true, because you just fought that battle with your body and your body is like all right, take it to the next step, exactly right.

Cody McBroom: 41:38

So even they did a meta-analysis on a bunch of research studies and there was a correlation between sustaining fat loss and metabolic adaptation.

Cody McBroom: 41:50

The people in these research studies, these weight loss studies that they looked at those who were the most successful at sustaining the weight loss that they lost long-term had the greatest amounts of metabolic adaptation still present, which means never went away.

Cody McBroom: 42:00

But if you think about it, it makes sense because if you lost 30 pounds and then you kept it off, that's 30 pounds of metabolic adaptation happening and it's going to stick around. Now you might have been able to reverse diet, you might have been able to kick things up, but there's still going to be a thermostat based on your total weight that's regulating off of the weight that you're at currently right, and that's going to show the signal of metabolic adaptation which shows us you kind of won. And if somebody is listening to this and they have 40 pounds to lose, I promise you that having a lower maintenance calorie intake is definitely worth losing that weight because it won't feel lower, because at that point it's normal for your body weight now, just like the higher intake was normal for your body weight then it's just that you see a higher number.

Philip Pape: 42:39

Um, yeah, your hunger, your hunger signals, all be regulated at that level. Yeah, you'll feel lighter, and so on yep, yep, um.

Cody McBroom: 42:46

And if you think about too, like a lot of times when people go through great weight loss, there's plenty of research support that the most common factors with these people you know, usually they weigh in pretty regularly, they strength train, like there's a lot of different things, but a lot of it too, is they eat voluminous foods, they eat high fiber, carbs, like they naturally shift to healthier habits that keep you fuller anyway. They drink more water, so on and so forth. So you won't even notice it. But I preface all that because we're controlling what we can control and then when a plateau arises we go okay, we've controlled all the variables that we can control and we're at a plateau now and it's primarily because maybe metabolic adaptation is kicking in, but it's because I lost weight.

Cody McBroom: 43:21

So if you're listening to this and you hit a plateau and you haven't lost weight, it's because you didn't control the factors properly. Plain and simple. It means that somewhere in your knee dropped, you got to bump up your steps, you got to bump up your movement. Your diet stopped working for you, which means maybe that you are eating less voluminous foods and thermic effect of food drop. Maybe you're not eating, you're not timing your nutrients, or eating the right carbs or protein or whatever it is to have enough recovery and energy to be in the gym and train hard, which means you're burning less calories in the gym, which you can't track accurately, like I'm wearing an Apple watch but that doesn't know.

Philip Pape: 43:51

Like let's be honest. But you can track the symptoms of it, of your recovery, your energy and mood, right.

Cody McBroom: 43:56

So bingo, yeah, and you can see progressive overload in the gym and and you know, you can rate your perceived exertion after you did some sprint intervals and tell it like did you really go hard or was it dragging ass, like? So if you're controlling things right, you will only hit a plateau if metabolic adaptation kicks in and you just stop losing weight and so at that point you drop calories or you increase energy expenditure, and so increasing energy expenditure is a more difficult adjustment to make when you reach a plateau. And the reason it's a more difficult adjustment to make is because there's no like I don't know like people could say with calories. For example, if I'm going to adjust your calories after we've already started, I'm going to adjust at least five upwards of 10% calorie reduction. If I just start you on a diet, so like if you're at maintenance and I'm putting you into a deficit to lose fat, I'm going to go much higher than that because we're trying to get you out of that maintenance range and start losing. And if I do it right, I won't little bit because it's going to work for us for a while. So I might adjust at least 15 upwards of 25%, let's say. You know, there's plenty of research that even shows 30, 35, which is a good amount. So it's harder to adhere to when you're not in a controlled study, but 15 to 25% is a good marker. And then when you plateau, I just drop your calories by five to 10% usually just five, cause it just gives you another notch down and you start losing again. And then another notch down, you start losing again With energy expenditure through cardio and activity. It's hard because I can bump up step count by 10% to 20%.

Cody McBroom: 45:20

But at a certain point you don't want to keep adding steps because beyond 15, your body adapts pretty easily. 15,000 steps a day. So with cardio you kind of just got to guess. It's like all right, we're going to add 10 minutes per session, we're going to add another 30 minute cardio, you know, and usually at that point you don't want to be using. I just never use it to begin with, which is usually honestly the better bet. If they have the time to do low intensity and just focus on steps, it's usually better, but you know so.

Cody McBroom: 45:57

For example, if I'm prepping somebody for a physique show, like if you come to me and we get you, we're getting you prepped for a show and we're training five days a week or six days a week, you're gonna have one cardio day if you're doing five, no cardio days if you're doing five, no cardio days if you're doing six. And we're just so that way. You're training six days a week. Basically one rest day. Step count every day. When you hit a plateau and it's time to implement cardio, you got to kind of make a dent in it. So I would say at least two, if not three, times a week, 30 minutes walking on a treadmill four to six hours away from your training session, so it doesn't interfere and have that interference effect with your performance in the gym. Um, and, and we're doing low-intensity cardio just to burn calories for 30 minutes and then you hit a plateau. Guess what? Now we're going to four days a week.

Philip Pape: 46:32

Love it.

Cody McBroom: 46:32

Hit a plateau. Now we're going to five days a week and you don't have to go that route. But if you're trying to maintain muscle and you like your food, like most of us do sometimes, you'd rather spend 30 minutes walking on a treadmill or going for a walk with your dog than dropping calories further.

Philip Pape: 46:44

Totally more, so we don't have to cut that 50 calories this week or that 100 calories.

Cody McBroom: 46:50

And this is an interesting aspect of it too, With regards to metabolic adaptation and everything. There's a lot of research to support that. If you implement cardio, you will naturally eat more calories throughout the day and you will naturally drop your NEAT. Your body is really, really smart.

Cody McBroom: 47:09

It's the same reason why people will say, like well, what about fasted cardio? Well, fasted cardio does burn more body fat for fuel. However, your body will upregulate its ability to use carbohydrates and glycogen throughout the day for energy if you use most of the fat in the morning and so it offsets, regulates, balances out and you're at the same net calorie. So it doesn't matter and it's so hard to trick your body with this. But the only way you can trick your body with the cardio thing, if you're tracking macros, then you know for a fact you're not going to overeat calories, as long as you have the discipline to not do so and you have awareness there. And then, with the cardio or the NEAT, if you're tracking your steps and what you should do is track your steps and then when you go to do that programmed cardio it's not neat because it's intentional Take the step counter off, do the cardio and be sure to still hit that step count without that cardio.

Philip Pape: 47:57

Cause. If you don't, what about when you lift? What about you when you lift? Cause that counts as steps too. Do you take?

Cody McBroom: 48:01

it off. You can if you want, so I don't. I don't personally, because it's an easy way to get steps in.

Philip Pape: 48:06

I pace, I'm'm like I'm just gonna keep getting steps.

Cody McBroom: 48:09

I got energy right now, you know so that won't change and I'm always gonna lift. Um, the reason we take it out with cardio is because cardio is something that's going to come into the the picture when we want to ramp up calories and break your plateau, and it's going to go away when we're reversing out. Right, but that's a way we can control it to make sure metabolic adaptation doesn't do what it does and cause us to step less or eat more, because we're tracking the variables instead of just guessing. You know, and they have research to prove that too, so it's.

Philip Pape: 48:35

Yeah, no, this is really good Cause I was out, cause my other question was coming to mind If your knee is adapting downward as you are in the deficit and then trying to move more, is step count still a good proxy? So it probably is good enough, right? And, like you said, if you take it off for intentional cardio as well, just to keep that variable out of it, it's close enough, right, would you say yeah, 100, yeah, um, and again it's, it's.

Cody McBroom: 48:57

None of these things are perfect. Even macros aren't perfect. But the closest thing we can get to trying to control all the regulating systems of the body, you know, and if we can control those regulating systems, we can avoid them, basically auto-regulating yourself out of losing more weight, and that's that's what they're here to do. They're here to try and do. Now, granted again, like if you have somebody who's 50 60 pounds overweight, it is far less likely to happen in the beginning because they're still in that stage of they lose more, move more. They're also getting healthier, so their body's not going to fight them as much.

Cody McBroom: 49:27

The leaner you get, the more like quote, stubborn fat you have, the more you got to kind of fight your body and know this stuff. But almost everybody gets that point at one point or another. Because if, if somebody's listening to this and they do have 40 pounds to lose, you still got to know this stuff because your body has adjusted to being like your new homeostasis is 40 pounds heavier, right? So when you try to lose 40 pounds, when you're 20 pounds down, you're so far out of the norm for your body that it's going to start to fight a little bit, even though you don't think you're at the place you should be. It'll fight back, I promise.

Philip Pape: 50:00

That's a great thing you said, because I was thinking the listener might be thinking, wow, this is all great for optimization, great for athletes, great for people who are further along in their journey, but you want to know this stuff right from the beginning and track this stuff and either do it on your own that's kind of the approach I took, and obviously you took when you were younger or working with a coach or an app or whatever it is because that'll get you the results most effectively.

Cody McBroom: 50:23

Yeah, yeah, go ahead and you know what too, at the end of the day and we can't say this for sure, but maybe it does happen to those people who have 40, 50, 60 pounds to lose, just to a far lesser degree. So, if you know this stuff and it's as simple as wearing an Apple watch tracking your macros, which you got to do anyway just make sure you don't let that regulating system take over. Maybe you lose that 40 pounds. You want to lose even faster because the first 20 pounds goes quicker, easier, simpler, faster, because you understand this stuff.

Philip Pape: 50:48

It's true. It's true, and I've seen it with clients that had a lot of weight to lose. You're right. Especially when they're detrained, it's that initial phase can go really well, since you've got these things dialed in. Yeah, you have a few minutes more. Yeah, we're good, okay. So, speaking of optimization, I know you've worked with some elite clients, actors, physique competitors Maybe what's the most challenging case you ever had. You don't have to name names, but the goals, the process to get there no-transcript.

Cody McBroom: 51:18

Oh yeah, I mean truthfully, to be completely transparent with the listeners and everybody, I've worked with some really cool people and they're the easiest people to work with. I mean, I've worked with some professional athletes and they're freaks. You know you shouldn't be impressed by my ability to get a jacked athlete even more jacked and athletic, you know what I mean.

Cody McBroom: 51:42

Like that doesn't take so like if somebody just starts what you tell them right, exactly, yeah, they're disciplined, they're, they're motivated, they make money by being better and fitter. Like, come on, you know, um, I even tell people that about me. It's like, hey, like don't compare yourself to me because, like we're, I'm in the podcast studio right now as we're recording this. On the other side of this wall is a fucking gym. I would have to like literally like sneak out and avoid the gym to not train. It's right in front of me and I do this for a living. Like, I have a lot of accountability. So, granted, I didn't once upon a time and there's a lot of hard work in other areas of my life but I've fallen in love with the gym and it's very easy for me. So, um, you know, it's, it's, I don't know. I say that shit all the time, though I'm like the person that trains. Uh. Like, let's say, lebron hires a new trainer, I'm not going to be impressed by him, you know, because making lebron better one is probably gonna happen. He's already fucking great in that too. It's like what I mean? What can you really do? Like, now, whoever uh trains, the guy who is like the like bench rider out of like a small college that got to the NBA or something like that. That's totally different, you know. Or a 50-pound weight loss. So, yeah, I've trained a lot of people.

Cody McBroom: 52:49

So a couple of things that I think of that come to mind that are difficult. So, like the WWE people I train and work with, from a training perspective, easy Nutrition, not so easy. They're traveling all the time. They got to eat what's there, they got to eat on planes, they got to eat at a Starbucks. So it's difficult for some of them, highly motivated, it's just a little bit more technical and you got to figure out more options for them.

Cody McBroom: 53:13

I think of one of my clients and really a good friend now I've gotten close to him over the years Jake Lures, who is the singer of August Burns Red, which is a metal band. He his was difficult too, because he's not a fitness guy. He was a metal singer, you know, but he wanted to get in shape and continue being able to do what he does and he travels around the world on tour. He also owns a nonprofit and he owns a gym as well, actually with full staff trainers who I mentor now, and like that's a wild lifestyle to try to figure all this out and balance it and stuff. So that one was difficult but really, really cool. I've put people on stage for bodybuilding bikini. It's cool, but again, they're extremely motivated, easy to work with. They're just robots with it, which is awesome. I love it. But yeah, it's hard to say man, the person that comes to mind the most and is somebody who we won't get into the whole story, I actually tell it on. We're coming out with the second podcast called the Taylor Transformations Podcast, which is where we interview our coaches and our clients and one of my coaches hosts it and we just tell the stories of the people that have been a part of this company and I tell the full story there.

Cody McBroom: 54:13

But long story short. She came to us when I was a personal trainer at a gym. She had a lot of PTSD from an abusive relationship as well as abusive past. There was I mean not to get morbid, but it was pretty crazy like gang rape, big, like getting beat, and it started in a weight room with football players, and so she came in and she had PTSD around football, around gyms, around men. And she came in, wanted to work with me and I was like 21, 22 year old, trainer and maybe 23.

Cody McBroom: 54:45

I was pretty young and she wanted to lose weight, make the pro women's football team out here in Washington State, and she wanted to be comfortable training in a gym with other men and I'm like, okay, this is going to be difficult. So we worked together for a few years. She lost 30 pounds. She made the pro women's football team, played for a year and then stopped. She was like I just I did what I needed to do. I believe she's still a member at the gym. I mean, she went through the whole transformation. That was probably the most difficult, insane growing process I've ever been through and I've worked with a lot of people. I've helped people lose over 100 pounds more than once. I've helped again get people on stage WWE I say low level, but they're an actor, so sitcom stuff like that. Not head role, brad Pitt, shit, but really cool people man, and that one was something that just it changed the way I processed the world for sure.

Philip Pape: 55:37

Man. Yeah, I mean, you never know who you're going to work with and, like you said, it's a big name, is whatever it's the person, the individual, their challenges in life probably a lot that you can relate to, even if you had didn't have that specific experience. And when someone comes back to you a few months later and says you know, yeah, I got my physical transformation, but look at all these other things that are better in my life, I mean that that must make you feel great.

Cody McBroom: 55:59

Yeah, it was really really cool man. It was, uh, it was life changing for her and for me, honestly.

Philip Pape: 56:05

Yeah, I think I think you told that story on on your podcast before. I think it sounds familiar to like a few months back.

Cody McBroom: 56:10

We're almost at 900 episodes. I know, there you go. I have no idea. That's a lot, man.

Philip Pape: 56:15

Well, yes. So how's podcasting made you a better coach then?

Cody McBroom: 56:18

Man. It just it's a, it's a form of. I mean, it's one of my favorite platforms. I think it's allowed me to articulate topics really well, because you can authentically work through science and coaching application better than any other platform, and it gives me a platform that I can do so without a time barrier, because I can turn on the mic out here and I can talk on topic for an hour and I know that I'm not doing a client check-in or on the phone with somebody, or in a meeting that has a time cap, or has somebody one person on their side of the screen that is on a time crunch, like it's not specific to one person, so they don't need this answer right now to figure shit out right.

Cody McBroom: 56:58

It's something I can just teach, and so it's made me a better teacher and communicator, without a doubt, which in turn, makes me a way better coach.

Cody McBroom: 57:04

Um, it's taught me to study better, because if you're going to talk on topic, you better study it first, you know.

Cody McBroom: 57:10

So I've really had to learn how to uh find research, find uh information, study it, educate myself and then learn how to interpret it in my own way, and then, uh, I'd also say more than it's made me a better content creator, but more than anything, it was like the to me at least, I feel like it was.

Cody McBroom: 57:27

It was made for me, like this is the perfect platform for me and how I am as a human. So I was very grateful to get into podcasting because it allowed everything else I do to just resonate with people better and hit people better because they can they can listen to the real me talk for an hour, and I don't know. I've always said like, if you can talk on a topic for an hour, you're probably you probably know what you're doing. You know it's a good sign for people to learn how to trust you and to really get a good sense of who you are, and it allows me to authentically and transparently like talk about who I am as a person and that I don't know that translates into people's headphones and I don't know it hits home so well for people.

Philip Pape: 58:05

I'm feeling you, man, a hundred percent, because if I had to write articles or do social media reels and that was the only way to get to people it couldn't happen. Just being able to, like you said, think through things and even the research. I know you do Q&A episodes all the time. I'm sure every single one of those questions comes in Part of the answer you know and part of it's like let me go just double check or let me do some research and it's just learn, learn, learn. It just accelerates it. So I totally feel you, man, and you can't be fake. I mean, we're here just having this conversation. You never know where it's going to go. This couldn't happen 20 years ago. I always like to ask cause it's? It's, it's pretty cool.

Cody McBroom: 58:43

Um, yeah, it is really cool and you get to meet, connect with a lot of cool people, cause, like, for sure, I used to pay for consults all the time and they'd be like all right, so, like, what's your goal?

Philip Pape: 59:03

You want to. I'm like I you up. It's true, man. You know how much I just got from asking you these questions today. Right, that now is going to help me with my clients and their future episodes.

Cody McBroom: 59:09

And it makes me a better podcaster. It gets me in front of more people. It's a win-win all around. It's so great, I love it.

Philip Pape: 59:14

Yeah, yeah, um, what are? What are you working on now? That's like, besides your app and stuff like that, the industry industry has changed a lot, even in 10 years. Like, are there trends, are there advancements, are there technologies that you're really excited about or experimenting with that you know you want to talk about?

Cody McBroom: 59:32

Honestly, no man. I think that there's there's been so many things to come out, but nothing has really stood out to me as as and we try a lot of things, but there's I'm yet to find anything that is like groundbreaking. I think that um, at least in the tech world you know, like um, I'm working on a lot. I mean we're always improving our systems. Right now I'm really working on building the business from like a role structure perspective, so like the people on my staff, making sure that we're we're own roles we know who reports to who for what and who's in charge of what and just working very organized and efficiently so that we can grow at a better rate.

Cody McBroom: 1:00:10

I'm working on reaching out to other communities and doing seminars. So I'm actually in the process of seminar here next month and then Portland, hopefully next month, New York in September we're working on something in San Diego hopefully. So really traveling and get in front of other gyms and communities and stuff like that. But none of that's tech, you know it's, I mean the app's tech, but I'm not doing any of the app stuff.

Philip Pape: 1:00:29

It's people, right Systems and people.

Cody McBroom: 1:00:31

Exactly, yeah, so the app is something I'm working on. That I'm. The apparel stuff took a pause because we had to restructure, we had some trademark issues and we had to kind of go back and kind of get our ducks in a row. It's a new industry, so we're going to be coming out with a new line here next month and then another one in the summer, and so getting that back rolling is going to be exciting. Yeah, and just more of everything. Man, I love creation. So anything business-wise that allows me to be creative, I love man. Creative, I love it, that's that's you're.

Philip Pape: 1:01:00

You're in everything, man, that you're in everything. It's always an inspiration, man, to hear you doing all this, cause you know it pushes, pushes the rest of us who want to get there someday to to keep going, cause I always look at it as like I want to be surrounded by people who, who are beyond me, that that push me to the next level, so good stuff yeah.

Philip Pape: 1:01:15

Good stuff. Okay, so I always ask this question of all of all guests, and that is what one question did you wish I had asked and what is your answer?

Cody McBroom: 1:01:23

Ooh Um, damn, that's a good question, man Um.

Philip Pape: 1:01:28

I don't know it's paid off a lot on these episodes.

Cody McBroom: 1:01:31

It was a really good podcast. I mean we we covered a lot with uh, with just training and nutrition and everything.

Cody McBroom: 1:01:37

man, I think that, um man, you stumped me on that dude, I don't know I don't ever like that's the funny thing is because, like it's as soon as we got on, I was like I know you sent some topics I don't remember what they were, I didn't really look at them and I do that because I like to just go in and just like, let's just authentically talk and, you know, be so to me, I don't ever have expectations except having a good time, you know so to me, like me, like this, this is perfect. We're shooting the shit, we're talking about the stuff we love, um, and, and I just hope that, like I mean, I guess the only question I would say is is what do you hope the listeners get out of it? You know, and and cause? I was about to say that anyway, and I just hope that. I hope somebody learned something. I hope somebody gets value from it.

Cody McBroom: 1:02:17

To me, I'm like I have a big mission this year of like every time I talk to somebody on video, every time I talk to somebody on the phone, every time I see somebody in person, every time I have somebody ask me something, any interaction that I have any single day of my entire life, I've made this commitment this year, 2023 hit. I was like this is what I want to focus on is I want them to leave with more value than they came to me with. I want them to leave in a better mood. I want them to leave with a new piece of knowledge, just a little nugget that can help them improve. I want them to have more positivity, more self-belief, confidence, anything. I want to be the person that puts energy in other people when they step in a room with me, so I just hope everybody listening gets that. That's more than anything 100%.

Philip Pape: 1:02:57

They did because I did and I know everyone listening is here for that reason. They have that growth mindset. So thanks a lot, man. Where can listeners learn more about you?

Cody McBroom: 1:03:07

Yeah, so Instagram at Cody McBroom. I post every day there. Everything else is on tailoredcoachingmethodcom. We write articles almost every week. Tailored Life podcast is on there as well. We have three episodes that go out a week. We're starting another podcast soon. We got YouTube every other week. We're pumping shit out like crazy and it's all free. Obviously, we coach. That's what we do for a living. Otherwise we couldn't do that shit for free. But we got a lot of great content for free, so go check any of that out.

Philip Pape: 1:03:33

Yeah, man, your purpose is clear in the world here and this stuff means a lot to a lot of people out there, so I'll put your, your IG and tailoredcoachingmethodcom in the show notes. Man, you brought so much value today for a fact. Thanks again for coming on.

Cody McBroom: 1:03:48

Yeah, absolutely, man. Thanks for having me.

Philip Pape: 1:03:52

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits and Weights. If you found value in today's episode and know someone else who's looking to level up their wits or weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them and make sure to hit the follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.