Pam Sherman: 0:00

for body composition ladies you do not get bigger you actually get tighter you get smaller which is counterintuitive to what every woman thinks. You look better in your clothes you look better in a bathing suit, you have body confidence, you feel competent, because you can pick up a 50 pound bag of kitty litter, I don't know whatever pick it up. You can go to Home Depot and pick up a big bag of mulch like enhances your everyday life in so many different ways.

Philip Pape: 0:30

Which in which community Welcome to another episode of the woods and weights Podcast. Today I'm excited to welcome Pam Sherman, a fitness expert with 27 years of experience as a group, exercise instructor and personal trainer, a passionate advocate for women's health and wellness. And I invited Pam on the show to share her insights on hitting goals getting strong achieving longevity, all while making fitness fine. If you're a woman over 50, we're going to dive into the importance of having specific goals. The benefits of strength training, we cannot emphasize that enough and how women can integrate fitness into their busy lives. So this is practical use so you don't feel overwhelmed. We're also gonna explore things like the role of community and social connections and other aspects of achieving your long term fitness goals because this is a long term journey for life. Pam's journey in the fitness world began at a young age running with her dad and discovering the joy of movement, her philosophy that quote your health is your greatest wealth as guided her mission to empower women to prioritize their well being Pam's dedication to teaching women that it's not selfish to take care of themselves, has transformed many lives helping them achieve better health and confidence. Pam, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Pam Sherman: 1:40

Thank you. I have been excited ever since you said yes, I like we can just talk I'm so excited.

Philip Pape: 1:45

I'm so excited to because we are totally aligned here and the listener whether whether it's men or women, but women especially who are, you know, still have a lot of questions. And there's a lot of misconceptions in the industry about getting strong building muscle. Am I going to get bulky? Like, is this something I really need to do as I get old? I guess I'm going to ask you an interesting question related to all that. What is the most common but underrated or not talked enough about piece of advice that you find yourself giving women over 50 Today, that

Pam Sherman: 2:13

getting strong now is going to affect you when you're 7080 and 90. And that myth Phillip about getting bulky. I've seen exactly zero women and 27 years get bulky from lifting, but that will not die. Because as a woman think I'm like put down the big weights up a heavier weight. But women do not think about when you're elderly and you fall and you break a bone. That's because your muscles are not protecting your bones and building strength. Now, it's going to affect you later on. And I don't know how people don't think like, I want to feel great when I'm 80 I always want to be you know, taking vacations and be viable. If you don't do that your life is gonna suck. So

Philip Pape: 2:46

I wonder how how do we get people to live in the future like that? Because part of the challenge and I know that you know it is living in the moment and thinking that that's decades away, even when you are 60. It's still like, Well, 80 is still 20 years away. How do we deal with that?

Pam Sherman: 2:58

Well, I have to think most of us have a retirement account for money. So exercise now is your retirement account for later on. It's not selfish. It's not anything bad for you. It's nothing but good. So it's putting dollars in your fitness piggy bank for later on your health piggy bank for later on. Building that now is huge, and it's never too late to start. I'm lucky I started when I was very young. But I had two big brothers. So we were always an active family. Lucky, lucky lucky. If you're lucky. I'm 57 you can still start at 5060 There's been studies that just came out, you can build muscle 90s, which is incredible.

Philip Pape: 3:32

Yeah, no, it is incredible. And you mentioned, you mentioned story to me actually, before we started recording, actually, I would love you to share it because I've had a couple of surgeries over the past few years. And I realized that having strength train for the years leading up to it made recovery from surgery so much easier. And really when you fall or you get, you know, you get into an injury or accident. It just seems like you're hardier and more robust and that would have a lot of positive consequences down the road. Would you mind sharing your story? You told me about the car accident? Yes,

Pam Sherman: 4:00

yes, I'd be happy to do so I've been a runner. I really do more strength training. Now. I have a little appetizer of running before now. But in the past I used to be a big runner. And it was I'm a morning exerciser. I'm high energy in the morning. That's me. But this was a day in December when my husband I went out to finish our Christmas shopping, went to the movies had lunch got home about three o'clock but I live in California. It's beautiful in December. And I remember going out for back at the time and easy seven mile run that would destroy me right now. But at the time it was easy. And I was two miles from home check my watch. I was a 15 pace feeling great. When all of a sudden a car looked left only and sped out of the parking lot and I couldn't stop I put my hand out and I screened when I screamed I face planted into the windshield. I left the tooth in the windshield which your brain goes night night. It's all good. And I woke up rolling on the road. And I first you know crawled back to safety but I was on the ambulance and I'm like rolling my wrist. I'm rolling my ankles and I'd like of course I had it I lost five eat that day, and had to get one more taken out. But I didn't break any bones. And later on after I got a I spent one night in the hospital. That's it. I thought women my whole life had been wanting to be skinny. I need to help them chase strong because my strong muscles I had been strength training for two and a half years, protected my body when I needed the most. And yes, there was certain amount of luck involved. My mouth took most of the trauma. But still, I was really thrown from the car into the second lane of traffic. My Garmin was smashed, so I imagine I would have broke my wrist. But my Garmin, you know, protected my wrist. But nonetheless, I only had mouth trauma, which is incredible.

Philip Pape: 5:38

Yeah, so other than a couple little pieces of armor, the rest of your armor was your musculoskeletal system. Exactly.

Pam Sherman: 5:45

And I went to my, I got discharged from the hospital the next day because I had a small brain bleed and healed up the next day. And I had stitches in my lip, which I said, okay, they gave me discharged, like, get your stitches taken out. And I'm like, That's it. I just ate a windshield. That's all you're just like, and I did have some CT scans every six months for copiers and make sure my brain was okay. And I went into my sports physio guy, and he worked on me every few weeks to make sure my spine was okay. But I feel great. And I know it's because my dedication to myself on my health that really made a huge difference when I really needed it the most.

Philip Pape: 6:19

Yeah, and it makes a lot of sense when you hear stories of older women, I mean men and women, but women seem to be more prone to it because of the added muscle loss and the slightly less dense bone structure and Nn. Right, just, you know, biological disadvantage versus men just from a young age unless you do something about it. And we hear about frailty and falls and all that we focus so much on metabolic disease and like heart disease, but I know falling is one of the biggest if not the biggest risk factor after certain age. Isn't that true? It is. And it's funny

Pam Sherman: 6:51

because I'm on tick tock, that's

Philip Pape: 6:53

the only one I'm not. I'm on too many. So one of

Pam Sherman: 6:57

my videos went like crazy, like 300,000, which was a lot for me, and it was me getting up off the ground. Okay, that's it, and showing various ways to do it. And the the amount of comments that people said, you know, I have a bad back, I have bad knees. I this like, my belly is in the way. I have a friend who's a firefighter, which I said in this video, he has 60% of his calls are for people that fall at home. Yeah, there you go. Oh, my gosh, I highly encourage people to practice getting up. In fact, I have an 85 year old client. Every time we're together, I haven't get down on his hands and knees and get up just with his bodyweight because it's that important. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 7:30

I mean, that's we talked about movement patterns, squatting, pushing, pulling, picking up, that's the same, getting up off the ground is a great one, shift start just get ups if you want to do it loaded. But when these people commented on the tick tock video and are saying this stuff, were they using it as excuses, or were they kind of seeking help, like, Okay, well, I have a bad back. You know, what do I do? Excuses,

Pam Sherman: 7:49

yeah, knee replacement. My neighbor has the replacement. She's 73 I'm gonna do one with her and post that on top of that, because it's just, I feel like our society is getting sicker and sicker and sicker. And they're not. They're using it as an excuse. The only thing as you know, we can control our whole life as our health. That's it.

Philip Pape: 8:05

Yeah. If you just simply flip it around instead of being excused, it is the reason you should be doing the thing. That's It's the reason and then the next excuses like, well, I can't do this or that, well, there's a million ways to do to get healthier. Well, why don't you just address that real quickly when somebody is open to it? But has because you're a trainer, right? I'm sure you deal with the population a lot where they have pre existing conditions, mobility issues, you know, former surgeries, injuries, whatever. What's your approach there?

Pam Sherman: 8:33

So when I first started teaching classes, it was a 1997. Everything was an hour. So I think many people in their head think that have to work out for an hour. So you absolutely don't. Let's start with 10 minutes. In fact, I have a 10 minute playlist on my YouTube channel just for that reason, because I've heard so many women over the years saying I don't have time, you have 10 minutes. I don't care how early go to work and get up 10 minutes earlier. How about taking I call it an exercise appetizer, every time you go into kitchen, if you're from home, bust out 10 to 15, kitchen counter push ups. Start there. Every time you have a break, go out for a five minute walk. I am a huge proponent of adding things to your day adding more protein, adding more vegetables, adding more walking, adding some push ups, push ups yet start in the kitchen. And guess what the chairs are perfect place to squat. You could ask 10 squats, they're starting small like that, taking baby steps, then you can progress but on an off time. Baloney. Yeah, we all make time for the things that we want to do. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 9:25

that makes sense. So you brought it to time, which you know, is the one resource we can't add. And we just have to find time. But like you said, if you did an audit of just anybody listening, just do an audit of your week and come back and tell us that you don't have eight hours a week where you could literally go to the gym and not do something unproductive. And we're not even asking anywhere close to that right? We're asking for just 10 minutes a day. Well, what about just to re ask the previous question a different way What about you know, somebody who's willing to do the work, but they have limitations? You know, physical? Let's say they do have the bad knee or the bad back. I know what how I would approach it. But I'm curious how you would I have

Pam Sherman: 10:02

a friend who's very tall and has bad knees and like you can do a wall squat. That's the safest squat free to do get those you know your body in a perfect chair position. Hold that you get to strengthen your muscles around your knees to protect your knees. Exactly. People, they'd say, I'm like, what really is your limitation? Guess what a wall squat hurts, your quads are shaky. That's okay. Muscular discomfort is okay to have,

Philip Pape: 10:23

not to the point of pain, but to the point of where you're going to stimulate it to grow. Yeah. And that's a good way to put it. It's like, what is your limit before that pain threshold that you can apply? That still challenges the muscles that's going to strengthen it next time you come back, progressive overload gets you closer and closer to that position, I do tell the story about my own mom over the last year only. She had, you know, really painful knees and it was getting worse and worse, where she almost couldn't get off the couch. And we just started squatting. And like lo and behold, within days, the pain started to go down. So anybody listening, like just you got to do it, you got to try it out. Right? You got to try it out. You mentioned so we talked about health being for the long term, our greatest deposit into our, you know, life's bank account. What about in the short term? And where I'm going with that is? You know, I will often say that, like, I think physical health comes before everything else. It's like the oxygen mask on the plane. You know, you can talk about the importance of relationships, spirituality, like all the really deep, important purposeful things in our life. And yet it can't exist unless you exist. So in the short term, What's your philosophy for prioritizing things when it comes to health? You know, knowing that there's all these other things going on, you

Pam Sherman: 11:31

have to prioritize your health number one, and I have said the oxygen mask many, many, many to women, especially because you're taking care of everybody else in your life. But you will do a better job if you take care of yourself first. And we'll go back to the time thing, it does not take three hours a day to take excellent care of yourself. But can we talk about the effects of physical exercise on your mental health? It is ginormous. Yes, anxiety, depression can be lifted, not lifted, but can be lessened with regular physical exercise, there is so many benefits to getting out getting a good sweat, lifting weights and whatever floats your boat and strength training, of course, and strength training, it's going to be so important for you for the rest of your life. I mean, when I was younger, I ran miles and miles and miles and miles and miles because I was in a very dysfunctional household. That was my saving grace, my brothers turned to alcohol, I turned it running. It saved my life. So exercise for me and for many of people I know has really been a game changer for who they are today. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 12:26

that aligns with something we've talked about before on the show. I think Darlene Marshall first mentioned it from positive psychology called Upward spiraling where when you do start to do one thing it leads to another leads to another. And if mental health, we see a clear dichotomy with mental health, like generally poor mental health is associated with a much higher body weight and poor health condition, period. Like we definitely see that even though there are other variables for mental health. And of course, there's like, things like schizophrenia, whatever, we're not talking about disease like that, you know, very, very important thing there. So the tangent to this is women who feel guilty about taking the time for themselves. I know that's a theme that you'd like to hit on, even though they know it's important. But and then they say but you know, I've got these things for my kids. I've got to take care of this. I've got maybe to have a career, whatever. How do you address that? I

Pam Sherman: 13:15

was just talking with a client who has food littles and they play soccer like so you walk during the warmup, right? And during halftime because you don't have to sit and talk to the mom, she's like, I've never thought about that. You can grab moments at all your kids sports events, when they're most of the parents are sitting you can be moving if it's by a playground. You can use the bench for push ups for squats, you are the freak but that's okay. Because you're making yourself feel better. You can look for pockets in your week to make movement happen. When you make an excuse, that's just gonna lead to a lot of other bad decisions when you know as well as I do when you make that one good decision. You're going to eat better that day. You're gonna drink more water, you might go out for an extra walk. One great decision in your health leads to the next and it doesn't have to be for a lot but when Mike I mean, my husband would divide and conquer if two kids playing soccer, there was always an hour warm up like I'm gonna walk. I can talk to the moms during the game. I don't need to sit for an hour before an hour till halftime and halftime. It's a lot of sitting let's move instead of sit.

Philip Pape: 14:14

Yeah, no, I have experienced that too as a dad like with my girls just had their ballet recital last week and it was a lot of just being there sitting and I was with my wife so we were chatting and we're not walking around and that has its own value. And I work out so I'm not worried about myself too much. But let's come up with a hashtag grab moments because I love that you said that you can grab moments in your week hashtag rainbow I was gonna say about that. Oh, yeah, like it same thing with steps for example. Some people you know, they say I work from home. And I'll say Well Do you ever Are you ever on a zoom call on your phone or like you checking social just pace like that when you pace while you're doing that you're gonna rack up to three 4000 stuffs.

Pam Sherman: 14:52

And if you have a phone call another zoom. You can be out walking. Yeah.

Philip Pape: 14:55

And that to have your signal is good enough. Yes. Yeah, my

Pam Sherman: 14:57

husband he said his team gets a little butthurt when They are on a team's call. He's like, but sometimes I want to walk, then they don't need to see me. They see me all the time. Yeah, as long as you're engaged. Yeah, as long as you're engaged, and luckily, we are in California, it's really hot now, but for the most part, you can get out on those calls and what pacing? I mean, yeah, you don't have to sit and plus your hips get tight, your back hurts, like your body wants to move and be upright, that's for sure. And

Philip Pape: 15:19

it's all aligned with your health and your mental health and, and and everything your metabolic rate the list goes on. So what are the things you'd want to talk about to Pam was this idea of having a goal to work toward, and I know you're gonna give it a little bit more nuanced treatment, because we sometimes throw that out as lip service, like, we got to have a goal. And we set up micro goals, and we do tiny habits. But I want to hear where you're going with this in terms of helping us modify our behaviors, and focusing on what's really important, rather than kind of the short term things we chase that aren't as important.

Pam Sherman: 15:48

Well, for my whole life, my whole career, women chase the number on the scale. And I want to tell them, like, can we set up like, can we have a protein goal? Can we have a water goal? Can we have a like an exercise goal, and I was told this about myself is an ICU, the video in 1991 to Terminator two came out, when Linda Hilton did a pull up. Women weren't strong back in those days, we did cardio, cardio, cardio, cardio, and I was watching me be like, Wait, we can do that. So for 20 years, I want to do a put on all the vision boards. I never worked on it. Until I put a pull up bar in my backyard. Why didn't I pay somebody to do it, and I am gonna do a pull up. I worked for six months to get to one. It felt amazing. So getting past the scale. What about doing a full body pushup, most women cannot do a full body pushup. But when you start on your knees, and you start working, and you keep working, you will get to a full body pushup. What about a 50 pound weighted squat? Like these things, there are so empowering when you work on physical goals. And plus a scale user just pisses people off? Can we not be pissed off? Can we be excited about what we're doing in the every day instead of being pissed. And for my clients, I'm like, You need to get at least 25 grams of protein, every time you eat in there, like what you're gonna stay full, you're going to be satisfied, you're actually looking for sugar afterwards, like, even those goals. When you meet them, you're like, I did a good job today, let's be proud of our work. Instead of like, that scale, like come on, you know, I want you to celebrate what you can do, instead of being the day being determined by what that number is on the scale.

Philip Pape: 17:24

For sure. It's a huge one. And, you know, I was I was listening to another podcast where they talked about measuring body composition, and how one of the problems with the scale in our society is it's an easy number to get. And it also is a very, I don't wanna say accurate in the ways that people think it's accurate, but it's like, it's a real reflection of whatever your mass is that gravity is pulling you through the earth with, right like it's an it's a real number. It's not like a body fat number on a scale, which you can't believe because it's affected by all these other things. And so it's very, it's kind of like simple, easy, readily available. And I think there's an aspect to that psychologically, where we grasp onto it, in addition to all the female specific, you know, and societal and cultural things as well. And so what you're saying is, look, you can replace that with other easily measurable short term, process oriented goals, that daily, hourly, you can like win, win, win, win win, you know, having enough protein, having water, I do love the training and exercise stuff, like definitely a lot of women I've worked with the push up the pull up going for that and just trying to scale into it and getting that first full body. And for guy, it's like trying to do with one arm, which is really, really hard. And an X pound squat or whatever. It's really awesome. And, yeah, I love the passion, you have Pam, because we do need to get excited about it. And when we're when we see a number on the scale, go up a pound, and get discouraged. And that makes our whole day. That's a problem.

Pam Sherman: 18:50

It is a problem. And you know, as well as I deal with that women especially are so hard on themselves. In fact, almost every client over the years, the first thing they want to tell me is what they hate, like Mina Mina are only talking about wins. You beat yourself up too much. Let's

Philip Pape: 19:04

talk about the things you did great this week. And there's been times when I've gotten injured and out of shape. And all the things I still remember 2014 is to having to do push ups on my knees because I was out of shape. And my dad had decided all things. When I got to that first hole by one, that's great. And so I want to empower women to go like you can work towards something. And when you get there, it's going to feel amazing. And I want you to be so proud of your work. Yeah. 100% focusing on just the winds is right up my alley. Because I'm an Uber optimistic person. Yeah, you too, right. And while it may make some people like throw up in their mouth when you constantly talk about positivity to them, the evidence is pretty settled that having this optimism lens or optimism bias on the net on the whole is going to make your life just so much better. Because you're going to have bad things happen. Everybody's going to have bad things happen. And you're also going to be disappointed when you go for stretch goals and that's okay too. But if you're always looking ahead toward, you know, the hopefulness of it, and pursuing those wins, right in a positive way, you're gonna get way more of them than someone who's not that someone who's, who's the ER. And

Pam Sherman: 20:12

when they say like, I can't, I'm like, what can you do? Let's think about all the things you can't do, let's list them off, because you can't that's very small part of your whole day, like, oh, when you put it that way, I am crazy optimistic for people. And I'm sure it does annoy some people. But that's just that's the way I am. And

Philip Pape: 20:28

the at the end of the day, we say that I say that joke around it. And yet I know that if someone I know people like to be around that I see how supportive it is in a community setting where you do that as long as it's productive, right? Like, you're helping people reframe something not in a delusional way. But just saying, let's change the perspective or the angle we look at it from, because it's not going to help us to do otherwise. But it will help us if we have an action we can take going forward knowing that it can go in this positive direction.

Unknown: 20:56

Hi, my name is Lisa. And I'd like to give big shout out to my nutrition coach Phil update with his coaching, I have lost 17 pounds, he helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight, and it's very simple longevity, I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die. He introduced me to this wonderful Apple macro factor I got that part of my nutrition figured out along with that is the movement part of nutrition, there's a plan to it and really helped me with that. The other thing he helped me with was knowing that you need to get a lot of steps in. So the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is, and the easier it is to lose weight when it's presented to you like he presents it, it makes even more sense. And the other thing that he had was a hunker guide. And that really helped me so thank you. But let's

Philip Pape: 21:39

let's talk specifically about strength training that because that kind of stands above most other pillars here. When we talk about longevity, and like you said not getting killed by a car, maybe surviving the car accident, you know, we can't always control what happens to us. But how does that contribute to the long term health and longevity? Specific? Like, can you convince me we have to be strength training? Like is that your position?

Pam Sherman: 22:03

We have to be strength training? How many times are you in the grocery store where you see a person over like this person, a grocery cart, and you think if they fall, they're breaking a bone. And I think after I did that video, they went crazy on Tiktok, I looked it up and it said if you're over the age of 70, there's a like a 70% chance of dying within six months of a fall. And that's because they don't have any muscles or protect their bones. So we're talking about what we do now, for sure is affecting us later on. And again, Phillip, we're not talking about hours in the gym. But starting, if you are doing nothing now, starting with bodyweight exercises, great. Yes, you will progress eventually, because you need to add to the load eventually. But starting now is going to protect you later on. And I know, I have seen like my father in law died of obesity, my dad died of Alzheimer's, we're all going to die. But if we can be as strong as we can for as long as we can, that quality of those later years is really going to be high for me.

Philip Pape: 23:00

I agree. So when you talk about these little snacks, what do you call them fitness? And I don't know what term you use. But I want to be clear to people, is it if somebody is completely sedentary? What's the route to go from there to resistance training? Because one of the messages I see in the listicles and I don't know if I already put out the short episode about this where I said don't move, like just move is not enough. It's like, oh, all you have to do is move and then you'll be healthy. And then end of article, you know, and I'm like, Ah, like, I don't think that's enough. It's fine. Yeah, it's a tiny step better than not moving. But it's far cry from where we need to be like What are your thoughts on that?

Pam Sherman: 23:34

I think you need to start with every time you go in the kitchen, do 10 Push ups and 10 squats. There you go. Once that's easy, we'll get to 15 once that's 11 to 20 once you can get do that five times a day, it's time to join the gym.

Philip Pape: 23:47

Cool progression and right off the bat you're loading yourself against gravity with something. I love that okay, what are some benefits of strength training that you've heard about or you're aware of that are maybe overlooked or not widely discussed? Because I know we could just list Okay, bone density and this and that. Like what do you think

Pam Sherman: 24:05

body composition ladies you do not get bigger you actually get tighter you get smaller which is counterintuitive to what every woman thinks you look better in your clothes you look better in a bathing suit, you have body confidence you feel confident because you can pick up a 50 pound bag of kitty litter I don't know whatever you pick it up you can go to Home Depot and pick up a big bag of mulch like enhances your everyday life in so many different ways.

Philip Pape: 24:30

I like to you get smaller because we do talk about skinniness and using a detrimental sort of way right like I just want to be skinny. Yeah and you're saying that you know obviously you're going to build strength and muscle and that's going to make you leaner tighter more toned, you know muscles denser than fat and therefore you're going to look smaller but in a healthy way.

Pam Sherman: 24:51

In a healthier way. It's not It's funny my personal progression over the years I used to be have ginormous leg when I was big time runner, a mile legs are smaller, but they're more muscular now, because I do more strength training. My clothing size went out a couple sizes when I only strike train. My body weight isn't a whole lot different, but my body's tighter from strength training. And so for all the ones who think I'm gonna get big, bulky, I'm like, No, you're actually going to tighten up, you're going to get that toned look that the women are always looking for?

Philip Pape: 25:21

For sure. For sure. Now Now what about the the overachievers out there. And my clients, you know who you are the overachievers who go through a successful period, let's say a year to have solid strength training, you know, they're feeding themselves, they're fueling themselves. And we should probably talk a little bit about the food side of it, too, because we're not always dieting, right. fueling yourself, they build some muscle, they lose some fat, but they're still not quite where they want to be. So like you said, they meet, they have some definition, maybe their upper body is a little more defined. Maybe they have bigger hips and thighs, like fat, you know, storage there, because that's how their body is shaped. And that's the last place to go. But everything else is now kind of trimmed down a bit. And now they still notice the thighs like, how do you approach that as a woman to another woman?

Pam Sherman: 26:03

It's time to go into a diet phase. And, you know, how are you? How are your weekends. That's the big thing is, and I know for years I struggle with this is like, I hope I have a good weekend. You actually cannot eat like I know you don't say it's where we're like an idiot on the weekends and expect to continue to see gains on the scale or, you know, mostly on the scale. So you really do have to tighten up what you eat. And as you get older, it definitely is not as easy as when you're in your 30s or 40s. So you just gotta tighten things up.

Philip Pape: 26:33

Yeah, no, no, no, tighten. Sometimes I say eat like a child. But yeah, same thing, right? Be like an angel. I know what you're gonna say. So okay, all right. Yeah, I know, we mainly wanted to talk about, like, having the goals and having that drive you but I think it is important. Some of the body image issues definitely come up with all of this. You want to say something?

Pam Sherman: 26:53

No, it's just, in my experience, women lose it last where they want to lose it the most. Yes. So if they have hips, that's going to be the last to go if that's what they want to go use a start up here as your head and traveled down. So it is not a fair process. It's not an easy process. But it can happen. Definitely with dedication to your nutrition, like spot on most days of the week, like, six, six and a half days a week. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 27:19

I'm challenging on this question only because some people find it easier than others let's men and women find you know, they some have a higher metabolic rate than others. Some have been building muscle longer than others. And some just store fat and in the worst places for them, right like this mentally, if somebody has been dieting, and they have lost some fat, and they've, you know, they lean out a bit, but they have more to go. How do they get driven from a goal perspective, or, you know, psychological perspective, to continue knowing that it could take another two or three years to get the physique they're going for? Time

Pam Sherman: 27:51

is gonna pass anyway? Yeah. How do you want to feel in five years? That's it. Your health is a marathon, it's never 100 meter dash. And you have to have the long range vision of Well, first of all, you're talking about how to fill in your ad. But your goal sometimes it is like an inchworm to get to where you want to be. But it's gonna get to what are we in? It's gonna get to 2030 Anyway, do you want to feel amazing by then or 2027? Three years is not a long time and the whole scheme of your whole life, so it's okay for it to happen little by little. It's unfortunate in our society today, Instagram, Tik Tok, everything's fast. Your health is the only thing that will never get you fast results.

Philip Pape: 28:32

Yeah, not to mention on social media, the results are completely skewed and what you actually see, so it's given us unrealistic expectations, even above and beyond that, time is gonna pass anyway. So that's a great point. Then you mentioned how you feel, why is it important now to focus on how you feel, because you mentioned some objective measures, like the protein and the steps and whatnot. Let's talk about how you feel, rather than just your physical appearance as another way to drive you day to day rather than thinking, you know, three or four years and being impatient about that. But can

Pam Sherman: 29:04

we talk about when the last time you like had the flu or were injured and you just felt like absolute garbage? Every day that you wake up and you feel great, that's a win, that's something to celebrate, because I know we all know people that are very sick, or that past, who would give anything to be back here today, when you wake up and you have a good day and you feel great, no aches and pains, you get a great workout. That is a celebration that is a huge win and your journal, and everybody should be keeping a journal of their wins. Because we all have the things that we don't like in our heads when we ought to kick back to the curb and celebrate the good. You wake up, you feel great, good night's sleep, you're going to crush that workout isn't going to be a great day.

Philip Pape: 29:39

So you mentioned looking back on something where you didn't feel great, and then kind of comparing how you feel during that scenario. Now after doing something, what should people maybe be tracking or journaling in the here and now if they're listening to this, they're like, Okay, how do I do that? What are three or four things maybe I should be really paying attention to and then what do I tie them to? To get that cause and effect of what I'm doing,

Pam Sherman: 30:02

I think it would be great to journal your workouts and what weight you're using. So you know, oh, a month ago, I was doing 10 Less pounds on whatever that I'm doing. Now that's something to celebrate. It's good to journal your sleep. If you don't wear a tracker, I love my little Rank Tracker, because sleep, especially for women in the 50s is so so important. track how you feel after your meals, right? Something is gonna sit better with you than others. track how you feel like, actively think what am I thankful for today? Starting and ending the day with gratitude is so important. And a lot of times my clients, your clients, they focus on the negative, like my butt, my belly might whatever. What about what you did today? Did you do a push up? Oh my gosh, you do a squat. Be thankful for what you can do like you and I fill up like with a positive kick the negative to the curb? And let's celebrate what you can do. What coins? Are you putting that long term piggy bank? I want you to think about that?

Philip Pape: 30:54

Yeah, gratitudes a good one. I know I've talked about this before that. Like, I'm not a huge journaler for whatever reason, I have my own methods of thinking about reflecting on things and documenting things. And there are different tools for different people, right. It's the principles that matter whether I'm rationalizing whether or not but you'll never win that battle with me. It's been long enough. And it is what it is okay. And that's cool. But oh man, where was I going with this? See, this is what happens. This is not folks, the lot of these interviews that you listened to now they're not really scripted, right? We want to have a conversation, I was going to ask something about, oh, my goodness, was that

Pam Sherman: 31:33

you can use your voice memos to you don't actually have to write in a journal. That's true. Yeah. And I keep on my notes, I keep track of my workouts, so I can see what the weight I did last time. If I need to increase it, I'll put like, increase next time. Like it's good to track really everything about your health,

Philip Pape: 31:46

for sure. And okay, I know what it was about the reframing side of things. Let's dig a little more practical. And then I'll just throw one at you like that I heard from one of my community members recently. And I addressed it, I addressed it with her in my way, but I'm curious how you would do it a statement like, I'm just addicted to sugar. Like, she knows all the thing she wants to address, you know, tracking, increasing the protein training. But there's always this like, but I'm addicted to sugar,

Pam Sherman: 32:14

it's time to break up with a bad boyfriend. That's what I call sugar. Like, you want to go somewhere you have goals, you just you have to be an adult sometime and get out of your own way. Like, come on. Now. You can have it on special occasions. But really, with the all the information we know about sugar, about how it's bad for our brain, right? It's actually for women, the number one bad thing you do for your skin is eat sugar, and I got wrinkles. I'm 57 I don't want more wrinkles, but you have to adult up sometimes. And as a mindset, you are addicted, take two or three days off, take a week off and then see how you feel like it's okay. To get out of your own way. Be like okay, I'm addicted. But it's not serving me. So I'm gonna break up with my bad boyfriend for a week and see how I feel she might feel amazing. On it. What did you say? That's my I like kind of back to basics with that. Yeah, no, I

Philip Pape: 33:01

there's so many ways and and you know, like, it's hard. I'm not trying to quiz you on the show, honestly, like, you never know what the individual you have to talk it through with them. I think for her it was more about let's reflect on is it really sugar that you're addicted to is a certain types of foods containing sugars and fats, and let's identify where that comes in. And maybe if we start adding in the things that you're missing that need to serve you, we're gonna push those out. And what you're talking about is controlling your environment and actually having a food plan that is also a really effective tool. Right? So for folks listening, like when you go to a restaurant saying that, I don't just drink a lot. Like I'm not just myself identity as I drink a lot, okay? Like you said, Let's what it was a term woman up or I don't know, dots off and say, Okay, I'm gonna limit myself to two drinks like, so I've always wrestled with the words restrictive, strict, and deprivation. And even I use the word restrictive, usually to mean deprivation, we do want to be have some strict mess about certain things. We don't have boundaries, right? It's kind of what you're getting at. It's like, you're not depriving yourself. You're just saying, Look, I'm an adult. And I have a plan and my body is important. And my longevity is important. So I'm going to make these decisions. Is that a fair assessment of it?

Pam Sherman: 34:10

Yes. I just had a client who went out to dinner she had a drink or two, I can't remember an appetizer and then rice for their dinner like Okay, so next time pick one, have the glass of wine or the appetizer or the rice. That's a lot of extra and you have goals, which are like, Oh, I never thought about like that. Yeah. And I do have a client who does have a problem with sugar. And I just said, Hey, I double dog dare you to stop for a week. Yep. You know that once you stop and she's like, Oh, my gosh, thank you. I'm so glad you put that out there to me. Because she literally she has in her office, there's candy dishes, and then there's weekends and I'm like, give me a week and then tell me how you feel. And she just needed that little extra push like, okay, and she's like, thank you so much. I got this like, Yes, as a coach. I know I believe them but they have to hear that and go, Okay, I can do it. So

Philip Pape: 34:58

true. So true. And sometimes you Need a little extrinsic motivation, or you need a reminder that there's a different choice you can make, because we get in a rut. And I can tell you until now that this triggered me to think about my sugar days, I used to love candy. And I used to eat a lot of it. At night in front of the TV, from our snack drawer, it was just there, right? That was kind of like an easy change that I was just not making. And I knew in the back of my head out of guilt, right? Every night I had it, it was like this guilt of I shouldn't do this. And at some point, who knows what it was probably my birthday around Halloween, I said, Okay, I'm just at the worst time of the year for having candy is the time I'm gonna go cold turkey. And for me, that was like the beginning of the end of like years and years of development from that point. So it can be very powerful. Pam, what you're saying is just making that choice. Even if it seems like you're cutting something or restricting you're not really doing that you're just making this pivot. You know,

Pam Sherman: 35:52

did you have a sugar headache for a couple days?

Philip Pape: 35:54

Ah, I probably had more it could have been is probably more of like a what you're missing? A headache. Right? Like, it could be anything that for your hunger headache from because you're expecting to have it at this time. I might have even substituted with something else like popcorn or something that was like, more voluminous, less calorie dense. And that's fine, too. Right? Like it shifts you away from the thing that you don't want.

Pam Sherman: 36:16

And it was that in your working out days or prior to your working days. It

Philip Pape: 36:19

was my working out improperly days. Your Crawford days. Yeah. CrossFit cardio. Not showing up consistently. Yep. But that was right. That was late. 2020? No. 2019 right. Before I really started to figure things out. Yeah. Is that crazy? Yeah, it

Pam Sherman: 36:36

is. But I love hearing about your journey, because like so many people didn't see it. Like we've had it together our whole lives you've ever made mistakes? No,

Philip Pape: 36:42

no, it's every day, there's probably something that I quote unquote, slip up or make a less than optimal choice. But like, on the whole, as we talk about, if you've got the pillars there, if you've got the foundation and the consistency and habits, you actually have the flexibility to constantly make mistakes. Like that's the way I like to put it is you have you've built in a buffer for yourself to be human. You know? Yeah,

Pam Sherman: 37:03

I have a funny story. In the 80s. I was running marathons with my girlfriends because we ran cross country in high school. And then we went to the Ohio State University where none of us were good enough to run there. So we're in the Columbus marathon. But this was the 80s all ate terribly, because we were in college and I was running with a friend. I'm like, hang on for a second. And I pulled up my shirt and like, Is there something wrong with my back? Flip is my back fat juggling. All right. I mean, we've all had our struggles, like, every professional I know has gone through their struggles with their health and wellness. And I was like, what back? Because we didn't have mirrors in the dorm rooms. Yeah, I remember getting on my parents scale. 30 pounds more than I am now running marathons like you just, we all have our struggles.

Philip Pape: 37:42

Yeah, it's what makes us human. I mean, if anything, trying to be perfect could be the thing holding you back. Right. So when it comes to what you alluded to then being a coach and helping people, when we think of relatedness community, not doing it alone, asking for help, I think those are all very powerful. They're important themes. What role do they play? In all of this? Like, any extreme? Could someone just say, I'm going to do this all by myself, go alone and be successful? And even if they could win, they be more successful with with help, like, what are your thoughts on that? 100%

Pam Sherman: 38:16

I just had a client today say, I thought I could do it by myself and I didn't do anything. Community is so important. I need to be around other women who are on the same journey. It doesn't matter the body size, but on the same journey, that so many people and I'll say women think I can do it. But there's nobody to fall back on. There's nobody to ask questions to there's nobody say I'm having a bad day or I, you know, I messed up or look at, you know, look at the wind that I had, because I always asked Mike, let's share winds going alone. It's and it's lonely. It's so much more fun to do in a community. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 38:49

that's a good way to put it. It's lonely. Yeah, for sure. And there's some things like people who have a home gym, right? They have that concern, especially met women who are doing the group classes, right. And but it's not quite cutting it from a strength training perspective. And, actually, I'm curious your thoughts on that, because you want them to lift weights, let's say they don't even have access to that kind of gym in the region that they live in. They have the option of doing a home gym, right? And there's still these group classes there, but they're not really focused on strength training, what are your thoughts on an approach for that person?

Pam Sherman: 39:22

Now? I mean, you have to do have progressive overload. And I have taken classes recently, my sister in law when I visit her and buffalo strike classes too fast, you can't get proper load. You can't think about your form. So I would say in that situation, getting a home gym is going to be your best bet. Go to take root classes for yoga, you know, for a core workout, but for strength. You cannot get enough weight. Yes, it's fine. Maybe go to one a week for fun, but to see the results that you want, you need to have more than a group class.

Philip Pape: 39:56

There you go. No, I love that kind of mixing it up. And if you need a group class for some of the other things just don't make it the priority associated with the training, do the training at home and find your community elsewhere. You know, to satisfy that it. And then this came to mind to what are your thoughts on women, coaching men, men coaching women? You know, do you have any feelings on that?

Pam Sherman: 40:15

I've coached a few men in my day. And I've been very successful with two. And one of them started out successful and then didn't want like I was trying to be a hard trainer. And he didn't listen to me. And we had to break up because he wasn't taking my advice. But the other two were like, you obviously what we're doing, and I coach them with food only not for workouts, and it was great. So it's you just have to find the person that you connect with. Right, you have to have be relatable. And that's all.

Philip Pape: 40:41

You know, I'm always curious about that. And I thought of it recently because well, first of all, I'm always talking to women on the show now and I coach women and I'm talking menopause more and more. And it's like, a year or two ago, and I thought, that's crazy. There's no way I'm going to do that. Or people are even going to trust me. But like you said, you just have to empathize. And no one person has every experience of the people you're coaching, right? So whether it's men or women, and you know, Ally, Gilbert, she's kind of pretty big following she calls it the queen of men's health. Her demographic is men like increasing their testosterone, making them show up in the bedroom, that kind of like messaging, which is really cool. So I think it's depending on like you said, You've got to connect with the person, be authentic, and just be open to helping them however you can. And listening to them. Yeah, you do

Pam Sherman: 41:26

your homework, you have these women on your so you have Karen on your show, right? Carrie Martell, you have all this great information. So it's not like you're helping women without any idea what you're talking about. You're learning and probably from all your guests. That's

Philip Pape: 41:37

exactly it, you hit it on the head, you see, the listener knows I this is like my master class and my coaching, improvement by listening and talking to all of you. But also I only bring on the best of the best pound. Because I want you to you know, share your story with the world. And you've got great advice from a different perspective, usually. And so this has been an awesome conversation. I'd love to ask this question of all guests, you know, what's coming? Is there a question? Or what question do you wish I had asked? And what is your answer? Well,

Pam Sherman: 42:05

I do want to go back to the group classes because I actually teach two step classes a week. And so many women have fun in group exercise, I want to say my second answer was what is the best exercise? Okay, the best exercise is the one you love to do. And when women say I don't like to work out, like what did you like to do as a kid, jump rope, might need to wear a pad but jump rope right now. It's still fun. And strength train two to three times a week, but do what you love. So if you love Pilates, oh my gosh, go to Pilates. But that is not your strength training. It drives me absolutely crazy. Phillip, when people say women say I do Pilates that strength. I'm like, It's not strength. So do what you love, go to group, get your group experience, have an amazing time. But find that way to get that strengthened two to three times a week because that is what's gonna get you to 80 and failing Great. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 42:52

I think it's good to bucket like you said, put these into buckets and put that priority of training at the top and then find the weight. Like, there's no excuse, you've got to get that done. So get it done. It's kind of like you have to have food to live and you have to kind of have a house or place to live. And you have to have a little bit of money to be able to survive. But you have to have these things are non negotiables. How you do it is very flexible. But then like you said, there's this other bucket of movement, fun hobbies, community, whatever you want to fit it in where these other activities can go. And even if they let's say take a tiny bit away from your training and recovery, it could be worth it. Right? The trade off could be worth it for you if the alternative is you're not doing any of that stuff.

Pam Sherman: 43:30

Yeah, I know like bar is so popular. I took a bar class,

Philip Pape: 43:35

and I just need to face for those of you listen to the audio she just made kind of like

Pam Sherman: 43:40

if I offended anyone that takes bar that is not strength training. Yeah, that is 150 reps of a squat. That's not strength training. Yeah, so don't market it as such. Yeah, yeah. And it's not full range of motion. They're like half squats. So if you love it, oh my gosh, do it. But then go to the gym and lift heavy weights, because that's what's gonna get you to your long term health investment, your retirement fund, that's really what's gonna get you the most bang for your buck,

Philip Pape: 44:04

lift weights, that is your retirement fund for life. Find a fun way to do it and listen to what Pam saying, Look her up and I want to provide the listener a way to do that. So where can listeners learn more about you and your work on

Pam Sherman: 44:16

Instagram and Tiktok. I am lowercase Pam underscore Sherman one, my website is going to change but for right now it's the perfect balance dot guru. I have a YouTube channel, Pam Sherman where I have a 10 minute playlist for those of you that want to start working out I don't know where I've got plenty of Bodyweight Workouts. If you need a stretch and nobody stretches enough. I have a whole stretching playlist. I have a bunch of workouts there. So if you want to work out from home, I would love it if you give it a try and then leave a comment so I know that you did it. Alright,

Philip Pape: 44:42

cool. I'm gonna throw those in there. Let's say the top three would be IG tick tock and YouTube. Maybe, folks so yes, so we'll throw those in the show notes as always, and Pam, this was fun. I mean, the time flew by we covered covered a lot of really inspiring motivating things, but we don't just want to motivate women, right? We want them to take the action. So I And I know that's what you're all about. So thank you so much for coming on.

Pam Sherman: 45:03

It was amazing. And we talked for a long time. I wish I could keep talking and I gotta go but thank you. Thank you for having me on. It's such a pleasure to talk fitness and food and all the things with you agree

Philip Pape: 45:12

so much fun. Thanks for coming on.