[00:00:00] Philip Pape: Welcome to the Wits and Weights podcast, for busy professionals who want to get strong and healthy with strength training and a sustainable diet. I’m your host, Philip Pape, and in each episode, we’ll examine strategies to help you achieve physical self-mastery through a healthy skepticism of the fitness industry, and a commitment to consistent lifting and nutrition.

[00:00:26] Welcome to episode 19 of Wits & Weights. Today, we have another special interview guests. Ken Kaputo is a lifelong athlete who eventually found his way to strength training in his late thirties. And that's something he and I have in common, uh, from an early age.

[00:00:47] He competed in swimming track, cross country, even pole vaulting and springboard diving at the university of Connecticut. Eventually becoming an expert in martial arts. I invited Ken on today because of his passion for lifting and nutrition and how they can keep someone healthy physically, mentally, and emotionally, as well as recover from injury.

[00:01:07] Ken Kaputo. Thanks for joining me on the. 

[00:01:10] Ken Caputo: Glad to be here. Um, 

[00:01:13] Philip Pape: you've been an athlete since you were a teenager and you've dabbled, recreationally and competitively in probably more sports than I've ever even thought of. Um, tell us, tell us more about your fitness background and your current approach to training and nutrition.

[00:01:30] Ken Caputo: Yeah, so I really, I think. I would say I became an athlete in my mid teens, you know, like around high school age. Um, prior to that, I was the skinny kid who couldn't, you know, I did little league and stuff like that, but did all of it poorly. And, um, and, uh, I was became attracted to more like endurance.

[00:01:51] Activities. So running. I did really well with swimming, uh, embody controls stuff, and I found that it just it's, it was a joy. It was like, I think the main thing, especially younger was it was a way to decompress, relieve stressors that, you know, all the teenagers are feeling. I think the hormonal highs, especially from endurance activities, with something I became kind of addicted to.

[00:02:17] Uh, so that really was. The start was, you know, and I think the other thing that attracted me to these kinds of individual, um, physical activities and sports was just, it was really just you against the clock, you know? And it was just kind of, you know, this time yeah. You know, a time where you're testing yourself and you know, that kind of fit.

[00:02:39] Personality and style early on. I think now where 

[00:02:42] Philip Pape: you, were you encouraged to do this or did you find it on your own? Do you say you're a little skinny kid? Cause I was like the little fat kid who stayed out of sports when I was young. So nobody you'd have to, you know, pay me to do it. So, you know, how did you get into it that.

[00:02:55] So 

[00:02:55] Ken Caputo: it's kind of funny because my, my dad, um, is a, he was like a big time football based, Paul, you know, he was into more of the traditional kind of team sports and he always really encouraged us to do those things. So I tried them all and that was just terrible. It just wasn't good at any of them and, 

[00:03:13] Philip Pape: you know, something physical, just not those sports.

[00:03:17] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Yeah. And I really just, you know, I mean, I, I remember just as a, like a 12, 13 year old, pretty much. Reading a lot of books and hiding in the basement and just kind of, you know, just nothing was working out that way. And it was, uh, a good friend of mine in high school who had joined up on the swim team to become a springboard diver.

[00:03:37] And he was like, you want to try. I said, I knew nothing about diving and neither did the coach, honestly. I mean, this is like a high school team. There was a board there, so it was me and him. And they literally showed us this eight millimeter reel of the required dives, 

[00:03:53] Philip Pape: poems, or trays. Like you ever see Dodge ball.

[00:03:55] Like, I don't think it up now, this the springboard. So versus the, I don't know what you call the other one that's doesn't spring, but is this very high or is it pretty close to the water? 

[00:04:08] Ken Caputo: It's pretty close. So one meter. So at the high school level, it's all one meter. Once you get into the collegiate level, uh, there is no one meter it's three meter.

[00:04:17] And then, especially as you get into the higher levels, you've got platform, usually, uh, a five meter and 10 meter platform. So, you know, starting out of this one meter and, um, you know, and I just, I loved it. And. As I got into it, I also started swimming because you could do both so you can compete. So I started competing in a hundred free and breasts and stuff like that.

[00:04:39] And, um, so this was my freshman year of high school. And what happened was that spring, they were looking for pole vaulters and the track coach said, Hey, you know, you diverse your, these skinny light guys who have good body control. Why don't you try out for the track team and see if we can pull all, okay.

[00:04:58] Philip Pape: Okay. I was going to say, it sounds like a totally random sport, but you've got, yeah, 

[00:05:04] Ken Caputo: yeah, exactly. And I'd actually tried out for track when I was in junior high and got cut. Cause I didn't know what I was doing. I couldn't run. I was just not athletic. So, uh, so anyway, so I tried pole vaulting and, and again, as part of that, decided to try running again and got hooked on the 3,200.

[00:05:22] Which is basically two miles on the track. And that that fall I did cross country can take you to swim, dive and became a three sport athlete right through all of high school. Um, and then that carried over university of Connecticut. I was actually, um, recruited to be euphoric. But didn't get enough money to actually go there.

[00:05:45] So I walked on to the swim team at Yukon and, uh, made it as a diver and a dove for a couple of years there. Um, that's pretty cool. 

[00:05:55] Philip Pape: What were you Yukon for? What was your major? 

[00:05:57] Ken Caputo: Uh, actually I went in for psychologists. Okay. And, um, and ended up, uh, just not doing well. Um, you know, I was doing a bunch of stuff.

[00:06:06] I was, you know, kind of working my way through. I actually had joined the national guard to pay my tuition. So I was doing that once a month, you know, doing a army infantry men type thing. And, uh, and eventually just kind of ran out of money and motivation for the whole college thing. So. You know, so I left campus, I was still doing some classes part-time working nights and was looking for something physical to do, because at this point I understood the value of physical activity and just was looking for something that would kind of hit that body control part, but also something that would bring in a little bit more of a, I guess you would say a mindfulness, although I didn't really have those words at that time.

[00:06:47] So another friend said, Hey, there's a karate school in town. Check it out. So I went in, you know, so this is probably around 20 at the time. And, um, went in, try to class, fell in love with it. And. About a year later realized that I loved it so much. I actually came in a little early and saw Southern working with the kids and I was thinking, oh my God, I, I could see myself doing this with my life.

[00:07:14] You know, I mean, it's, it's, it's healthy for me. I could really transform a lot of lives. So I started teaching, volunteering my time and eventually took over a school that was failing and, um, It's still going strong 30 plus years later. Well, 

[00:07:31] Philip Pape: that's amazing how opportunities come out of nowhere. Right? We seeking that a kind of individualistic pursuit, right.

[00:07:37] Of something that would channel your energy. So it wasn't even for self-defense or anything like that, which is probably why I would think to take martial arts and then you fell into it found that you could teach kids. And that was another passion of yours kind of combining the two. 

[00:07:50] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Yeah. And I had actually, uh, because of the swimming, I had, uh, been a lifeguard through high school that was kind of my job.

[00:07:56] And I taught swim lessons and loved teaching the kids. So there is, so that kind of came back, bubbling out to the surface when I saw this, this opportunity with the martial arts and it all just kind of came together and, you know, so I started doing it professionally and Doug, you know, really dug into that and competed in tournaments and, you know, Six days a week and you know, really just became a lifestyle.

[00:08:22] Philip Pape: That's pretty cool. My only foray into karate. Well, there's two first is I tried it as a kid and I was too scared to actually go up in front in front of everybody for the first demonstration. And I told my parents, I don't want to do this. Um, and then the second is, is my love for Cobra, Kai, which I know is completely realistic.

[00:08:39] Uh, the show on Netflix, right? And that's about it. It's hilarious. It's very entertaining, um, tongue in cheek and all that, especially if you grew up around that time. Um, but so I've wondered, I understand you've taught. So this is Shalon. Kempo is the style that from your email, hopefully I pronounce that.

[00:08:55] Right. Um, and you're a seventh degree black belt. And again, I don't know anything about martial arts in general. So why that style? What, what excites you about. 

[00:09:05] Ken Caputo: Uh, it was really the first one that I stepped into and, you know, and what I tell people all the time there's, there are so many different styles and it really just comes down to, does the, does the way the system is set up, compliment the way that you kind of move.

[00:09:24] And does it feel good to you? And more importantly, do you like the environment? Do you like the teachers? Do you like the students that are with you? It's really a community. Uh, so as long as those things, the actual name of the style or the specific of the style never really seemed as relevant. Um, they all have advantages and disadvantages.

[00:09:43] Um, like you said, I was more interested in being a balanced human, so I wasn't really into Intuit for like a con. Type of, you know, hardcore. Yeah. You know, and it, it just, it wasn't. And, you know, and if I was, I probably would've picked a different style, although there's, you know, the style I'm in is very, um, there's obviously self-defense application there always is, but what it's really about is living a long, healthy life, you know, and that's, that was what really appealed to me.

[00:10:15] Not only for myself. Teaching that you know, to communities and, you know, here I am at, I literally trained multiple generations, you know, so watch kids become parents and have kids and, you know, live healthy, abundant lives with this martial arts system being kind of, part of that. Part of that experience for sure.

[00:10:37] Philip Pape: Yeah. And I think this, you hit on the community aspect. I think that's attracted a lot of people to all sorts of pursuits. Right? CrossFit is a big one I can think of that took off 15 years ago. Um, you also mentioned longevity and health, and I want to get into some of that with this discussion because.

[00:10:55] You know, so sometimes goals are contradictory, right? There's the performance goals, there's strength, goals, longevity, and health. They don't always align perfectly if you're trying to build and you need to cut body fat and, you know, be hungry and suffer through all that. And you're messing with your hormones.

[00:11:13] And so on that doesn't necessarily translate to living to 110, if that's what you meant by long, but you know, you get the point. So, I mean, what's your take on balance. Yeah, 

[00:11:25] Ken Caputo: it's, it's really an interesting thing. And the funny part, I, I, I trained as a lifelong athlete. It was all, it was, it was pretty well balanced just because I wasn't looking to be like some crazy.

[00:11:38] You know, MMA fighter, whereas taking a lot of hits, like even competed in tournaments, but there's, what's called point fighting. So there's contact, but it's, it's like tag, you know, when someone hits you, everything stops and you're accumulating five points and then you advance. So. You take some shots, you know, but it's not the sheer abuse that like an MMA fighter or a boxer, you know?

[00:12:01] I mean, they're like taking such a pounding. So I didn't have that element. What was interesting is, you know, by the time I was in my mid thirties, I had reached, uh, a rank in these, in the system that I was training where you really couldn't compete anymore. I started racing mountain bikes 

[00:12:19] Philip Pape: and, uh, had the bug.

[00:12:21] And yet somehow 

[00:12:23] Ken Caputo: I've always needed to do something competitive. And this was cross-country. So, you know, so you start off as a beginner and, you know, it's like maybe like a 45 minute, uh, you know, race. And by the time you reached back then what was the expert level? What's now cat one. These are two, three hour races.

[00:12:39] So they're very demanding. Um, doing point series. So you're talking 14 races between like April and October. So that's where you start seeing what you're talking about. Like balancing that level of training and conditioning, um, against the demands of the sport. Can really throw you out of whack. And I remember very vividly, uh, when I first started racing, you know, I got like blown out my first year.

[00:13:07] I did terrible. And it was just part of the learning curve, um, led to a lot of nutritional insights we can talk about, but there were posters up for dealing with. And a lot of, a lot of these racers were pushing themselves so hard, physically logging so many hours to be competitive, that it was creating damage emotionally, you know, not enough time committed to their relationships.

[00:13:31] So, so I learned a lot about that and really, you know, my goal was doing this because the best way for me to stay healthy was to have some kind of a physical event to train for in a cyclical way. You know, so, and that's when I started really thinking about all right, what's the best way to be efficient and to be smart.

[00:13:53] So. I, I feel imbalanced. I'm not like getting moody or, you know, eating things that are leaving me all doubled over and cramped up after a race or impacting my, my business. I mean, I'm an entrepreneur, I'm a business owner, so I had to invest all of that. So I learned, I think, more from the mountain biking experience and did that for about a decade.

[00:14:15] Um, did I did from anything I had done previously to that, you know? 

[00:14:19] Philip Pape: Yeah. So it sounds like what you're talking about is the need for period of. The need for, I guess, seasons in your training and your competitions. I mean, CrossFitters learn this over the years of the open and the games where the organization, I guess, added more and more competitions.

[00:14:34] And the top ranks guys wanted to compete all year and they found they couldn't do it. And, you know, because you get over-trained, you get over fatigued and you really need to peak peak for that. Right? You need to have a building phase, you have to have an off season, et cetera. It sounds like what you're talking about now, could these bikers.

[00:14:51] Just skip a bunch of competitions and choose the ones they wanted or did they have to compete in all of these 

[00:14:56] Ken Caputo: it's upended. So, you know what, for those of us that were into it from a point serious perspective, it was, you could miss one race, which usually was going to be a DNF. Like you went to race and something broke on your bike or you crashed and broke yourself and that kind of thing.

[00:15:14] Yeah. But I mean, you really, you had to, you know, the ones that would win. I won states. I won new England. So I took it as high as I could go at the expert level. Um, and it was really attrition. It was who could raise consistently pretty much top five race after race, after race, through the whole series. So, yeah, it was very challenging because you really couldn't, you know, and you found yourself like during the training season balancing, like your, your main physical effort was the race and then everything else was kind of recovery, maintaining fitness.

[00:15:48] You know, you could sustain it. And what's interesting is there's this, and you see this a lot in athletics. There's this. Tough guy culture. Like, you know, one of the things we used to say is, you know, the one who breaks last wins, you know, the one who could and, and cycling is sustained pain, like mountain biking, especially cause it's very anaerobic and aerobic.

[00:16:13] So, you know, you're, you're going up and up Mount snow with your heart rate at 180 5 for 15 minutes, and then you're exhausted and trying to traverse and go back down and do it again. You know, so you, you almost didn't recognize how important it was to take care of yourself and focus on recovery because the tough guy would just take it, you know, and not break it.

[00:16:40] No, it really was. Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:16:43] Philip Pape: Wow. That's cool. So w so we, we touched on balance and periodization then, so then that brings me to. I know you're doing OTRs now, but, um, you, you also do strength training and that's, that's my passion. Right? You came into that, I guess, in, around in your thirties, sort of similar timeframe that I did.

[00:17:00] Um, I guess my question is, you know, how did you fall into this? 

[00:17:05] Ken Caputo: So, yeah, so it was really interesting. So with the cycling, you know, one of the things, especially road cyclist, they'll tend to, um, you know, there's a lot mass amounts of cardiovascular fitness and they're there, you know, your legs just get huge, but your upper body on a mountain bike, you need a lot of upper body strength, but it's hard to actually work.

[00:17:27] On the bike, you know what I mean? It's to, to actually get like, kind of balanced musculature and it was also starting to, you know, there's a lot more research I had. Um, my first started racing, um, I was just pumping calories, you know, five, 6,000 calories a day, and I'm doing it with feeding anything, hot dogs, ice cream, whatever I could, I didn't know, you know?

[00:17:48] Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, so I'm starting to get like cramps. So I started studying nutrition and started learning about, you know, how it's not just the calories, the macronutrients, the types of foods, all of that started coming into play. And that led me to understanding a little bit more about body composition and the value of maintaining muscle mass.

[00:18:14] Not only for just strength, competitively, but overall health and longevity. And at this point, Almost 20 years ago. So the research wasn't even really that strong, like now, I mean, 

[00:18:26] Philip Pape: science phase still. 

[00:18:28] Ken Caputo: Yeah. You know, and I, I was really kind of turned off by the idea of muscle building, like bulking up because as a martial artist, who is all about everything being balanced and functional strength.

[00:18:40] So, you know, I mean, Fighting. I, I weighed 150 pounds, you know, and it was about hitting, like you weighed 250 pounds sure. Through structure, not necessarily too big. So, so I had kind of, I was misinformed about what resistance training could actually do for you. And as I started reaching it, uh, researching, and I was like, okay, now this is starting to make sense.

[00:19:05] And I recognized that I had worked a lot on. The other cornerstones of fitness, there's like five things that I think about, uh, conditions. Um, flexibility, which you do a lot in martial arts stability, which you do a lot in martial arts is just so much balance and mobility movement. But what I missed was strength and 

[00:19:29] Philip Pape: which you could argue, could bring all these other things up another level.

[00:19:33] Ken Caputo: Exactly what happened. So, so I, and I found that I just had, um, I was doing a lot of upper body, uh, not upper body. Um, just like, uh, Strength training always had tons of pushups, pull ups, just explosive movements with the body, but not adding in actual weights. And when I started adding in the way. All of a sudden, like it was kind of scary, like how much more energy I had.

[00:19:58] I started hitting like a lot harder. Um, I was moving more exclusively when I was training in the arts, my, uh, ability to perform my mountain bike racing got better. It just, it just brought everything together. It was like the glue that brought all these different things together. 

[00:20:16] Philip Pape: Um, I'm not surprised at all.

[00:20:18] What I'm curious about is what, what style or what focus of strength training that you've found most effective, you know, is it the big compound lifts or was it just adding weight to, to anything or what was it. 

[00:20:29] Ken Caputo: It was, it's kind of funny. I think, um, I, I just started reading books on it. Um, and there were a few good ones that, uh, um, I think there's one body for life, uh, early on.

[00:20:40] And there are a few like that. And, um, and so I was just kind of learning. How to lift and, you know, the difference between low rep high rep, figuring out what your one lift max was and just the basics, you know, I mean, bench, press deadlift, squat, you know, that kind of stuff. Um, but I actually found this guy is probably still around his name is shin or talkie and he, he was big on.

[00:21:05] Understanding how to do compound movements. And he was like doing a lot more of like the Olympic lifts, like Queens and you know, that kind of stuff. And, but all the dumbbells. So I really got kind of fascinated by that. It made a lot of sense, as far as working through connect kinetic chains of movement, like you do much more bilateral.

[00:21:27] Yeah. Yeah. So, and there was just, and also the core state of stabilization. So I felt like it, it was causing me to use my body the way I trained it to work for two decades and all these other things I did. So, so I kind of started digging into his stuff for a while. Um, and then, so a few years after. I think it was when Jeff cavalier showed up on the scene with YouTube and he 

[00:21:55] Philip Pape: just really, yeah.

[00:21:57] Athlete next. 

[00:21:58] Ken Caputo: Yeah. And that's what I use to this day. I just use various of his programs because I like the way he kinda, you know, he, he varies it up. He, he sets you up on, you know, a training regimen. That's not too time intensive, but you know, it doesn't leave any gaps. It's smart and intelligent. And now I just kind of cycle through a bunch of his different programs and, you know, that's what I've found has been most effective for me.

[00:22:24] Philip Pape: I mean, that. You know, you came through with the compound lifts and also the dumbbells. I mean, I I've heard it said that if, if you had no problem lifting any weight dumbbell, it would be the most effective, you know, implement. Um, but when you get heavy enough, you just can't wield them. You know, they're just too, and that's why you tend to use both.

[00:22:44] Um, if you have the training volume and you have the time, but, um, Consistency. Right. When did you say, like, I know a lot of folks, they can pick up fairly mediocre program. I'm not saying, um, Cavaliers program is that, but you could pick one and as long as you're consistent, you're gonna have, you're gonna be in the top 90% of people in terms of your 

[00:23:02] Ken Caputo: progress.

[00:23:03] Yeah. Yeah, no. And when people ask me, you know, I mean, that's, that's, I'm, I'm always very clear. There's a difference between like I'm choosing to live my life. For as long as I possibly can as a high performing athlete. And obviously what high performing is, is relative to, you know, the event, the time I put in age, all those other things as they just naturally occur.

[00:23:27] Um, but for most people tell them, look, I mean, just if you stress the muscles, you know, two, three times a week, it's just, it's all good for you. You know? So find something you can do safely and smart that you can commit to. And, you know, and if it's just body weight and you just want to pull a bar and do pushups and you know, that's going to be what it is, it's, it's definitely better than nothing.

[00:23:51] And you may find that over time, as you get stronger, you get curious and you know, and now you do sign up for the gym and get a couple of personals and. Learn a few things about how to lift safely and smart and that kind of thing. But, um, but yeah, I just tell people, look, it's just the act of strength training on a regular basis.

[00:24:12] Like you said, consistently. Is going to have a tremendous impact on your overall health and wellness over time period. 

[00:24:20] Philip Pape: Yep. Totally agree. Preaching to the choir on that, you know? Yeah. You know, and it's funny. I don't know. Let's see. Did it come out? Yeah, I did an episode on injury that just came out. And then you had mentioned that you suffered, um, at a grade three AC tear the lout three ligaments, but, but.

[00:24:39] You were, had gotten stronger up to that point and you believe that that helped you through or help the recovery process versus if you hadn't. 

[00:24:47] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Yeah. When Fe, so that happened in 2015 on Thanksgiving morning. So we're talking, you know, almost seven years 

[00:24:56] Philip Pape: ago. 

[00:24:59] Ken Caputo: This was so basically that morning before going to do all the family stuff, I just went for a run, um, as soon a trailer.

[00:25:06] With my golden retriever. So I had her on my leash and, you know, and we ran this trail. It was very clear and everything just kind of like a gravel road bed. So, you know, so it's doing some sprints and she, she saw whatever squirrel type thing cut across my legs. So I went over the top, which was fine. One of the things I really good at is rolling out.

[00:25:27] You know, I've gotten over the type of bicycles and all that kind of stuff, but she pulled the leash. Exactly when I was upside down and I came down on the top of my right shoulder, the ortho guy said it was perfect. Like there was no fracture in my collarbone at all. Like I hit exactly on the top of the joy and basically your arms held to your collarbone by three ligaments.

[00:25:52] Uh, and I sheared right through all three of those ligaments. So, you know, so like your collarbone. Like 3g and see it right through a t-shirt even it's like, it was like almost an inch, you know, raised up and, you know, so, 

[00:26:07] Philip Pape: so also you said, so are you saying that was preferable to having broken your. Well, the 

[00:26:13] Ken Caputo: vantage to it, not 

[00:26:14] Philip Pape: preferable 

[00:26:16] Ken Caputo: vantage was, I didn't need like surgery and things.

[00:26:19] So no pins in the collarbone, nothing like that. But basically you have two choices with a grade three tear, cause there's not a sprain or a partial tear. There's literally nothing holding your arm attached to your collarbone other than muscle and skin at that point. So you can either, uh, let it heal up naturally.

[00:26:37] And it'll do what's called scar. And scar tissue will basically replace the ligaments or they go in and they string up piece of wire around your collarbone and they just kind of cinch it up. So, so I decided to let it heal non-surgically and, and the doc had told me, he said, look, you got nine months. Uh, if at the end of nine months, it hasn't healed.

[00:26:57] Well, we can go in and we can do the surgery and do that. So, so basically you spend about six months holding your arm in your. And like you can't pick anything up, you know, at all, because you'll tear all the scar tissue. Um, so I lost, probably close to, at that point, I, I was probably like one 60 somewhere in there.

[00:27:19] Um, you know, a decent amount of muscle mass. I lost about 12 pounds of muscle mass, my whole right side atrophied. I had done so much work to strengthen and build muscle that I healed completely and asymptomatically and have absolutely no limitations. Now it actually, the doctor even was a little surprised at how well it healed.

[00:27:41] Um, and he said you have years of prehab. Yours. And especially the resistance training doing these, these complex lifts and everything. I had strengthened the shoulder, all the support muscles were balanced and in good shape. So my body was naturally trying to bring everything back into alignment, which gave me a better opportunity for it to scar up and heal.

[00:28:03] Right. 

[00:28:04] Philip Pape: Um, it was sort of like a muscle memory in a way everybody's trying to get back to that point. 

[00:28:09] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Yeah. And it took me. It was two years from the injury before I regained everything that I had lost as far as strength and mobility and everything. But now almost seven years later, I'm doing everything I could do and more priors, incredible jury.

[00:28:26] So, yeah. And I think what really struck me about just maintaining your, your, you know, just to exercise fitness, lifting, all of those things is there. You're putting money in the bank. These are investments that will pay dividends if and when something happens, you know, and so many people, you know, I was talking to him and he was showing me pictures and he said, a lot of people don't recover well from this injury because they've been sedentary.

[00:28:54] So, you know, so now they're trying to actually develop muscle. To protect and help them overcome the damage they did. But it's too late. It's like learning to defend yourself after you got mugged. Right. It doesn't 

[00:29:10] Philip Pape: get insurance after you don't need it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Have you ever seen the, uh, there, this cross, the cross-sectional pictures.

[00:29:18] Of somebody's thigh as they get older on, if you've ever seen something like that, where you see the diameter of the thighs the same, but the muscle area just shrinks and shrinks and shrinks because of the as you get older. Right. So it's just, like you said, you, you basically waste away, especially as we start getting into your fifties and sixties.

[00:29:37] I mean, it's never too late to start strength training, but like you said, injury wise, the risk of not being able to recover goes yeah. The older you are. Hey guys, I just wanted to thank you for listening to the podcast. If you find it valuable, you'd be doing me a huge favor by sharing it on social media.

[00:29:53] Just take a screenshot, share to your Instagram story or Facebook, please tag me so I can personally thank you. And we can talk about what you found helpful in how I can improve again, an incredible thank you for supporting the podcast and enjoy the rest of the. And 

[00:30:09] Ken Caputo: what's cool though, is from my understanding your body responds really well.

[00:30:12] I mean, you can start lifting when you're in your sixties and you're going to regain muscle mass and, you know, and it's gonna it's and there's just this whole, like kind of domino effect of benefits that come from that, you know, the big thing is making sure that you're safe. 

[00:30:30] Philip Pape: Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure. What the answer doing the right forum.

[00:30:33] My dad is in his seventies and has finally picked up weight training for the first time. And he's seen the benefits. I agree. You can build additional muscle even in your seventies. It's crazy. 

[00:30:44] Ken Caputo: Yeah. And you're talking like the, and I know you've talked about on some of your episodes, the metabolic. Oh, of course, you know, 

[00:30:51] Philip Pape: that testosterone and 

[00:30:54] Ken Caputo: yup.

[00:30:54] And the proportion of muscle to fat, you know, the ratio and it's, and I don't care what age you are. That is, that is going to be good for you. Oh, absolutely. 

[00:31:03] Philip Pape: Just having a higher metabolism for sure. Yep. Um, all right. So. OCR. I want to get back to that. Cause I, you seem like a guy who is high energy always has to be busy doing something, and you're trying to balance everything and not get injured.

[00:31:18] You want to live a long life. You want to perform, you want to go out and win. So that sounds like a good outlet for that. Is that how you got into. Yeah. 

[00:31:25] Ken Caputo: Yeah. So, so it's kind of funny. And again, you know, these things are so random. It was, uh, uh, someone just asked me if I wanted to go do one of a rugged maniac, which was, you know, and, and at that point, um, I wasn't really doing anything competitively.

[00:31:40] I had kind of retired from the cycling, you know, I was doing it recreationally. Um, but it just kind of ran its course and I wasn't interested in continue to compete. You know, I kind of took it to. You know, as high an amateur level as I could. And it was just, I lost my interest in it. So I was kind of in between interesting athletic things to challenge myself.

[00:32:02] I hadn't already done. Um, you know, when skydiving, when I turned 50, that was fun, but I, it was an adrenaline kick, but it's not really a sport. It would 

[00:32:12] Philip Pape: be a skydiver. Yeah, 

[00:32:14] Ken Caputo: it was, I loved it. I did it a few times. It was such a blast, you know, but, uh, but anyway, you know, so. So they invited me to go do one of these rugged maniac things and it was a blast and the culture was very celebratory.

[00:32:29] It reminded me a little bit about, uh, um, how mountain biking was when I had done that. Just the, the type of people that would show up and, you know, so, so I did, let me stop you there. 

[00:32:39] Philip Pape: Did you do the one. Yes. Okay. Because I did that twice. It'd be interesting to know if we competed the same years. Was that like within the last 10 years or was that much more recently?

[00:32:48] Yes, I did 

[00:32:50] Ken Caputo: it. So I want to say the first year I did, it was probably 2017. Cause it would have been, I wouldn't have been able to do it the year before that because I, I wasn't healed enough yet. I was less than a year off of my injury. So I think it was, I think it was 2017 and I was really just at a point where I was starting to get back.

[00:33:10] Physically to the condition I was used to operating it. Um, that's a good way to say it would've made sense. Yeah. 

[00:33:17] Philip Pape: So like tough Mudder or something like that. 

[00:33:20] Ken Caputo: Yeah. And of course, you know, so I tried it. I had a blast. I think I went back, did it the next year. Yeah. So that would have been 2018 and I'm started looking into the fact that they would do an elite heat.

[00:33:33] Um, so which the first heat in the morning, you could actually have a timed race. You could key in it. So I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. And of course I was going with a group of people and they weren't interested in that. So, so I ended up running the course in 20, 19 3 times and I did it, uh, once competitively, um, did okay.

[00:33:56] You know, like I didn't, I didn't win or anything, but I get relatively well. And then I did it with a small group and then I did it one more time with a big group and just was really, it was a lot of fun. So 

[00:34:09] Philip Pape: for the listener, this is a 5k with like 20 or 30 obstacles. Yeah. So a good time is, is somewhere in the upper twenties maybe or low thirties, 

[00:34:22] Ken Caputo: low 

[00:34:22] Philip Pape: thirties.

[00:34:24] Ken Caputo: There's times where, depending on the course for the 5k, um, and how muddy it is that day, um, anywhere between 30 and 35 minutes. Uh, and the, so the first year I did it competitively, I did it in about 38 minutes. Um, you know, so I, I did it well enough. That it seemed like something that was interesting to pursue.

[00:34:44] And then of course, 20, 20 the pandemic. So it didn't happen. Uh, so, so last fall, you know, so I kind of trained, I decided last fall in 2021, I was going to train for this thing and try to do well. So, and they actually have, um, competitively, they have, uh, a 50 and up division and then they have just an all age division.

[00:35:06] So I ended up winning the 50 and up and finishing third overall. Two metals. Yeah. No. And it was, it was fun, you know, and it was what I really enjoyed was the preparation because it, the process. Yeah. You know that the endurance part of it. So you gotta be running, you know, Hadn't run. I'd been focusing on cycling.

[00:35:29] So it's kind of cool getting back to running. It's very pure. I love trail running. Um, but then, you know, you need a lot of body strength and a lot of body coordination because of all the obstacles. So, so I did that placed high enough that I got an email about OCR world championships, which happens every year.

[00:35:50] It's strategy. It's at Stratton this year. Um, I was like, Why not. So, so I decided I was going to train for that. And as part of that, um, I started researching the different OCR, like kind of circuits going around and found Spartan racing. Really like, you know, the way that looked. So, uh, so signed up for a trifecta, which is basically doing the multiple distances.

[00:36:19] Um, worlds for OCR is a 15 K race. So, you know, so long, get a little 

[00:36:25] Philip Pape: more hardcore here. Yeah, 

[00:36:27] Ken Caputo: yeah, yeah. More endurance. And, uh, the, the really fascinating thing about it is they basically, they give you a risk. And, um, if you don't clear an obstacle, they cut your wristband. You're done so you can finish the race, but you're disqualified.

[00:36:40] So you've got to be able to clear all the obstacles and you can try it more than once, you know, like if you slip off or whatever, but, um, oh, 

[00:36:48] Philip Pape: okay. You can try them on. What, what what's is that not the one where they make you do a bunch of burpees if you miss it, or is that like at the non. Oh, that is fine.

[00:36:55] Yes. Spartan does that 30 burpees or something? Yeah. 

[00:36:59] Ken Caputo: 25 burpees. So yeah. So if you miss an obstacle, you got to go to the penalty box and they actually, for the competitive, you can do Spartan, just recreationally. But if you know, the, the preparation and how it relates to this idea of being an integrated athlete, that's really.

[00:37:16] Kind of focus off of all of it. So, 

[00:37:19] Philip Pape: yeah. So, so let's talk about the, the terms here, right? You've used the terms, functional strength, um, integrated movement, integrated athlete. The first time I came across functional movement was CrossFit again, back back in the day, um, where I get introduced to barbells and, and power cleans and such.

[00:37:35] Um, I guess, what do you, in your words, what does that mean? What does functional strength mean? 

[00:37:41] Ken Caputo: So for me, I mean, there's a lot of different ways that people think of it, but it's, for me, it's being able to do the things that I love to do. To live the life of my choosing. So, you know, and for some people that could be hiking with their grandkids or being able to go to a waterpark and actually go down the slides and climb up the stairs, um, it could be being able to do yard work in your nineties.

[00:38:07] You know, it's just, you know, to me that the, the, the preparation for athletic events. For me has always been in service to being able to do the things that I want to do. Not only physically, but mentally and emotionally keeping my energy levels stay strong. My mind is clear. I'm on zero medications, you know, I mean, it's.

[00:38:34] I stay healthy. I get to live the life that I want to live. So, you know, so to me, what I think functional strength, it's like even this, uh, you know, this OCR stuff, it's, you're pushing, you're pulling, you're crawling, you're climbing. You're you're doing like actual movements that, you know, show up in your life.

[00:38:54] It's funny. One of the things I would tell people in martial arts is the one skill I guarantee you will use that you'll learn in a martial arts class is how to fall safely. At some point, you're going to fall down, you know, and most people that's how they, especially as they age, you break a bone, you dislocate a hip, you get.

[00:39:12] Because, you know, two things, number one, falling is a skill. It's a skill develop. Um, let me down when I blew up my AC, but Hey, no, there's no guarantees. Right. You know, but then the other thing is how well have you practiced your body being functionally sound and structurally sound. So. It has a higher tolerance for the unexpected things that happen in our lives, you know, and if something does go wrong, you can recover from it better on the other side.

[00:39:42] So, 

[00:39:42] Philip Pape: yeah, it's just, it seems like there's a spectrum because. For example, if, if somewhere to come to someone where to come to me and say, I want to get stronger, I'd say, all right, we're going to start with the very basics. Right? We're going to squat. We're going to deadlift. Cause squatting is bending down, right?

[00:39:57] Like you would do if you were sitting, if you were outside with your tribe or whatever, um, deadlifting is picking stuff up, you know, overhead pressing is reaching over your head. And Ben's pressings kind of the odd man out, even though we all love it, but it's kind of pushing, you know, being able to push something heavy forward in a way.

[00:40:13] So those are functional movements and they develop stability, mobility, et cetera, but you are still lacking some, like I couldn't do a back flip and I haven't really learned to fall properly. So things like that, um, would expand the repertoire, I guess if I, you know, focused on those skills. So it it's an interesting perception.

[00:40:31] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Like we went to a trampoline park and I'm out there literally doing backflips and bouncing all over the place. You know, like I'm a teenager and you know, and I'm not sore from it the next day. Like I train trampolining is part of diving and you would not believe how sore you can get if you're not used to doing.

[00:40:52] But, yeah, so it's just, you know, for me, it's, it's that, and you know, in the idea of being an integrated athlete is actually kind of these five components. Um, you know, we talk about move, think connect, fuel, empower, uh, with the idea being every day, make an investment in your ability to move somehow, you know, every day do something that's good for your mind.

[00:41:15] You know, and, you know, learn something new, read something, listen to something and get the blood going, you know, get the blood into your brain, oxygenate your brain through. So the movement helps with that. Fuel is obviously the nutrition, you know, the nourishment you bring in connect. This is the relationships that you've.

[00:41:35] Through all of this, you know, so, I mean, going for a walk with, with a partner or a friend, that's powerful on a lot of different levels, you know? And then, um, through the martial arts, I do a lot of, uh, cheat dog, meditation, mindfulness stuff. So empower is just, you know, being present in whatever it is you're doing.

[00:41:54] And when you do all those, all those things a little bit every day, it kind of, for me anyway, it helps keep everything. And balance. So you don't get caught up in lifting for the sake of lifting. You're lifting for a purpose that adds value to your life over the longterm. And if your body changes or your environment changes or something changes professionally, you don't feel like you're losing something because it will just adapt to the needs that you now have, and it will grow and evolve with you over time.

[00:42:26] Instead of, you know, ah, I used to be able to run a mile. Five 15. I can't do that anymore. I shouldn't be running. Yeah. 

[00:42:36] Philip Pape: Yeah, no, I, I like it. I like where you're going with that too. You have to have a goal and you can have intermediate goals. You could have long-term goals, right. And then you break it down to the process.

[00:42:46] Um, don't, don't. Either extreme. In other words, like you said, don't just do the process for its own sake. Cause then eventually you might not have purpose and don't just focus on the end goal thinking that's all there is. So that's a good balance. What would you say to people who are listening, who either want to get started in what you do, maybe with the martial arts or somebody who's not as active because you threw out a bunch of things, right.

[00:43:11] And you develop these over time, but what are the big priorities? The big rocks for people. 

[00:43:18] Ken Caputo: Uh, I think honestly, the very first thing is understanding the value of recovery. Right? I think you almost have to start there. You know, understanding how much sleep you need. Um, I I'm like a geek when it comes to the technology.

[00:43:33] So like I use whoop, you know, 

[00:43:36] Philip Pape: which is that the mat, the mattress, or is that the device in your wrist? That's 

[00:43:39] Ken Caputo: the device. Yeah. And it's basically that same thing as the exact same, well, different companies. Same thing, you know, and it helps you understand how well based on the effort you put in how well you're sleeping and recovering based on that understanding of hydration needs and understanding the nourishment of the foods you bring in and how it's really just.

[00:44:07] I think, uh, the confusion I see in a lot of people that I've worked with over the years is they get caught up in the output and, you know, I need to, I need to do my 10,000 steps or I need to get to the gym three days a week. And yes, there, there is all of that, but that's just stimulation, you know, that you have to create the space in your life to receive the benefit.

[00:44:29] And you know, and sometimes the best thing to do is stop. You know, like I definitely, I, I go off every Finn, you know, I do like little supplementation, like created and then sure. You know, omega stuff like that, but I stop everything, stop lifting and just walk for a week and just stop. 

[00:44:49] Philip Pape: You can, you know, you can say it's de-load, but you, you really just unplug and disconnect and, and let your body fully 

[00:44:54] Ken Caputo: recover.

[00:44:55] Yeah. And I'm actually thinking about that. I'm thinking about muscle repair. And how much better I'm going to feel on the other side of it, you know, and that kind of thing. So, you know, so that's the first thing. And then, um, the second thing that I always recommend to people is find movements that you enjoy, you know?

[00:45:16] So, cause that's the first thing. If you're, if you're doing something that makes you and you hate it every time you think about doing it, they're not going to, you're not going to stay with it. You've got to find things that you now. Yes. You know, an exercise. Isn't always fun. I remember, uh, an adult saying to me a few years ago, he's like you saying, I'm gonna have to do this for the rest of my life.

[00:45:38] And I'm like,

[00:45:42] if you want to be healthy. Yeah. So, you know, gotta do 

[00:45:46] Philip Pape: your squats, but maybe you don't want to do back squats. Maybe you want to do front squats. They either do it with a dumbbell, whatever leg, press, you know, do something. 

[00:45:56] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Maybe it's resistance bands, you know, or, or maybe it's, you know, putting your kid on your back and doing squats with them, feedbacks, you know, or just.

[00:46:08] Grab a dumbbell walk up and downstairs, you know, the farmer, Hey, asymmetric, farmers carries. Those are great. So, you know, 

[00:46:15] Philip Pape: so no excuses, what you're getting at. It's like, if you don't like something, you find something you do. Like at the end of the day, it's going to be hard at some point. Right. And that's part of, part of the fun really is when you do hard things and you see the results can be funded, 

[00:46:28] Ken Caputo: but, and you're looking forward to the result.

[00:46:31] So while you're engaged in the activity, you're thinking about the value you're creating, you know, and what that means to you. And. I think I've been fortunate in that, um, like physically, what it does to me has been symptomatic. So like, you know how ripped my abs are. Yeah. The reason I work out. It's just something that you notice as you're going through the training cycles and you know, my body composition, you know, I weigh myself every day and use an impedance scale just so they can kind of monitor how I'm doing and you know, but it's not, I'm not obsessed with how I look.

[00:47:07] I'm just thinking about the value I'm Korean. So, yeah, I 

[00:47:11] Philip Pape: agree. Like if, if, um, for new nutrition coaching, you know, I talk about the using biofeedback and data and measurements. It's just that just data it's. In fact, when you do it regularly, if you weigh yourself every day, it, you almost stop thinking about it and you stop obsessing about it.

[00:47:27] Yeah. But it's easier said than done because people have there's, there's all sorts of emotional, mental issues people have, and there's disordered eating and things like that. Um, but I, I love where. 

[00:47:37] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Oh, sorry. I was just thinking that could be so hard. Like, you know, especially when I've worked with younger people, they're, you know, they're on Instagram and they're, you know, they're seeing all those visuals are kind of hitting them.

[00:47:49] And it's really hard to balance that, you know, against doing what's best for you and not getting caught up in, you know, these kind of unrealistic images or. Whatever, maybe they are realistic, but if it becomes and in and of itself, it's all very impermanent. You know, anything you win, any metals, you get any picture you take, you're not going to look or be able to do that.

[00:48:14] It's a new world, 

[00:48:15] Philip Pape: social media. It's crazy. Yeah. This is all. This is all great stuff, man. I mean, recovery and, uh, you know, food and fuel and finding something that you like for sure. Is there anything else you want to share with the listener before? Wrap it up. 

[00:48:33] Ken Caputo: Yeah. I think the last thing that has been helpful is understanding how to lower resistance environmentally.

[00:48:40] Um, and one of the things I'll help people with, we call it the swapping grid. We look at. Rather cause a lot of people, I think they're thinking they have to add more to more, you know, I've got to now get up an hour earlier to get into the gym and they're, so their approach is something that can lead to being out of balance because you're trying to find more time and especially 

[00:49:02] Philip Pape: stressors by trying to do exactly.

[00:49:04] Ken Caputo: Exactly. So, so we talk about looking for, um, things that you already have built into your life. That maybe aren't serving you and then swapping them out. So, you know, so a simple example could be, um, like what I've had a lot of people have success with is they, you know, they're trying to cut down on like soda nutritionally, because it's just a lot of junk carbs and not good for him.

[00:49:29] So either they stopped buying it or they put it in the back of the fridge and they put a pitcher of water in front of it. So, so you're just trading out the choice to drink the soda. For drinking water. And sometimes they'll do that. Sometimes you won't, but a lot of more. Pretty quickly, they've reduced their intake by 50% and that has all kinds of effects they can experience.

[00:49:54] So, you know, so maybe you're, you're tired at the end of the day and you like to decompress with half-hour and Netflix and, you know, you just go for a walk instead, you know, or maybe you find like a podcast that you like and you listen to it and walk. So it's, how can I find. Time that's already there and reclaim it by swapping out something that fits with my long-term goals instead of just these habituated patterns.

[00:50:22] Are just kind of there that I don't even think about anymore. And 

[00:50:25] Philip Pape: I like that, Ken. Yeah, that reminds me of a, I don't know if it was a Freakonomics episode, years ago, talked about how I think it was Angela Duckworth, maybe that you know about the habits that show. Yeah. And it was, it was sort of rewarding.

[00:50:38] By doing the activity. And the example they gave was being on a treadmill while watching Netflix, you know, like I only allow myself to watch Netflix while I'm going to try them on and sort of, uh, you're, you're leveraging that same time, but now you're doing something, you know, I got a treadmill, a treadmill for, to work with now that I work from home, mostly for that same reason, like, well, I gotta, I gotta get my steps in and I will go for a walk, but yeah.

[00:51:01] Walk all day, so I can walk all day now while I'm working, you know? 

[00:51:05] Ken Caputo: Yep. Yeah. And you just, you find ways and yeah, I've done that for years. Like audio books have been my best friend cause I can do them while I'm doing cardio. Right. You know? So whether I'm on a run or a bike ride. Yes. So I'm nursing my mind at the same time.

[00:51:22] Training my body and, you know, and it's helped me reach my goals for how many books I want to read each year and, you know, stimulate the brain. So, yeah. And it's, it's interesting. Having talked to a lot of people, they, they, once you pointed out. They come up with these amazing like solutions for their own lives.

[00:51:41] They just hadn't thought about it. They just needed someone to say, Hey, have you thought about this? And then they're like, no. And then they do. And it's like really cool. I've had some people telling me some really wild things that they've done that, you know, not only added to their own physical wellbeing, but improve relationships, like, you know, all of a sudden they're doing things with their kids.

[00:52:00] You know, when they never felt like they had enough time and then they, they found this new solution. That's better for everyone, you know? So yeah. It's been really helpful. Um, 

[00:52:12] Philip Pape: that's awesome. All right. Well, very cool stuff. Um, where can listeners learn more about you or. 

[00:52:18] Ken Caputo: Uh, my goodness. Um, so I'm doing a lot of, uh, projects right now.

[00:52:25] Um, but nothing really. I think that would be of much interest to anyone, uh, that will probably change in a few months if it, if they wanted to contact me, you know, email is probably the simplest thing. To do. And, um, that's just ken@questersway.com and 

[00:52:46] Philip Pape: I'll put it in the show notes. Sure. 

[00:52:48] Ken Caputo: Yeah. Yeah. And, uh, and that's question's way is one of the, it's actually a business we created, uh, ran for four years and now we're ready to relaunch it.

[00:52:56] Post pandemic here that it's basically an entire center built around this idea of moving connect, fuel and power 

[00:53:04] Philip Pape: all about 

[00:53:05] Ken Caputo: it. Yeah, yeah. Yep. Yeah. So that's a really cool. Project. So, but right now, you know, I just kinda, you know, I, I, I work with different people in different things. We're going to be working with, um, actually the Yukon football team this summer, helping them out a little 

[00:53:20] Philip Pape: bit.

[00:53:20] Oh, that's amazing. What are you doing with them? Yeah. 

[00:53:23] Ken Caputo: Yeah. A combination of things, but a lot of it's going to be, um, helping there. They're defensive and offensive lineman with, uh, getting a little bit more of a competitive advantage, especially with the way they use their hands and just where their heads at, before the snap of the ball.

[00:53:42] So, yeah, it's just gonna be a lot of fun. We're looking to work. 

[00:53:45] Philip Pape: So we're going to see them in the top 10 before long, huh? Oh 

[00:53:48] Ken Caputo: boy. That would be really cool. I'm sure they would love that. They've been struggling for a few years, but they've got a new head coach now and, um, they're making some. Significant changes.

[00:53:58] Like even just, they redid the whole locker room and it's like amazing. They gave us a cool tour, 

[00:54:03] Philip Pape: Jackson, better recruits, but Hey, w what you're doing with that, you know, could have a big difference. You never know. 

[00:54:08] Ken Caputo: So, yeah. No, and that's exactly it. So, you know, so they reached out and we had a little conversation with them, and there are some ways that we could kind of apply some of the principles that we've learned over time to help them out.

[00:54:19] So, uh, you know, so that's what I kind of do, but it's nothing super formal. I'm kind of at a place of picking and choosing. Projects and who I work with and stuff like that. So. Awesome. 

[00:54:30] Philip Pape: Well, Ken, thanks for coming on the show. It was really cool to, with you learned a lot of, a lot of really neat stuff here today.

[00:54:35] So thanks again. We 

[00:54:36] Ken Caputo: learned a lot. I've been following your podcast and it's just been super helpful. Really good information. Keep it 

[00:54:43] Philip Pape: up. Yeah. If there's anything you want to hear on there, you think I should talk about, let me know or anybody who wants to come on, let me know. So great talking to. Take take it easy.

[00:54:54] Thank you so much for joining me today. 

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This will help others find the podcast in search results, which makes a huge difference. Thanks again for joining me, Philip Pape, in this episode of Wits & Weights. I’ll see you next time, and stay strong.