Philip Pape: 0:08

Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast, where we discuss getting strong and healthy with strength training and sustainable nutrition. I'm your host, Philip pape, and in each episode, we examine strategies to help you achieve physical self mastery through a healthy skepticism of the fitness industry, and a commitment to consistent nutrition and training for sustainable results. Welcome to another episode of Wits & Weights. This one is for all the guys listening to the show because I am joined by Carl Berryman, for a conversation about being a man from fitness to communication to expressing your feelings and everything in between my guests, Carl is a personal trainer turned men's movement advocate. Carl's a man who had his world crumbled around him, was able to foot back to pieces and simply wants to share his strategies for success. So other men don't have to suffer the same fate. He did. Carl, man, thank you for coming on the show. Thank you so much, Philip. I'm really looking forward to this after hearing some of your podcasts already. So this is gonna be it'll be great. And I appreciate that that you're listening to. We've been going back and forth before the show. And I'm excited for today because we're going to cover some new ground for us. I've had a lot of women come on and talk about women's issues. And now we're going to dive into the other side of the equation which is relevant to me and a lot of listeners. Let's just start with your story. You know, you were a personal trainer, you're now a men's movement advocate. So who is Carl Berryman? And what is your mission? What's your purpose in life?

Carl Berryman: 1:37

Okay, well really, really simply the longest story short possible. what my purpose is, is the way that I phrase it in my head is to inspire the dreams of humanity through the living my own and help other men or people around the world ignite the impact they wish to see in their world. Really simple. And so to put it really, really short in 2020 was December 4 2020. Actually, I had a really harsh wake up call in terms of how much my life was so far from where I wanted to be. And what spawned that was I got up and I decided I was going to get a jump on the New Year's resolution. Keep in mind, I've been a personal trainer for it's coming up 12 years now. So I wasn't in horrible shape, but I wasn't how I want it to be like there was still some room for improvement. So I got up December 4 2020 took a glamour shot in the mirror with my shirt off. And I didn't realize like I went to put it in a folder in my phone. And I didn't realize I'd taken a shot the exact same day the year before. But I hadn't taken a picture in between. And the pictures looked exactly the same. I was like, wow, I went an entire year thinking I was crushing my nutrition and my fitness and gone nowhere. So that was really humbling. And I don't know why. But a voice inside me asked me, Carl, if you've been deluding yourself with regards to your fitness, where else are you deluding yourself. And I found out it was everywhere. And inside of my romantic relationship with my partner, Jenny Lee, we become roommates instead of partners were Yeah, we were good friends and everything. And there was no animosity, but there was no passion, there was no excitement, like intimacy was few and far between, and battled with depression really, really hard to the point where there were many, many mornings where I just couldn't get myself out of bed in the morning to the point where if I had clients, I would text them that my dog was sick or something like this. So ashamed of how depressed I felt, even though I was living my purpose because I had quit my job four years prior to pursue my purpose of personal training. And it was a hardcore wake up call. And at that point, I decided, okay, I really first of all need to get my body in check. So I did some very simple shifts and ended up having a radical transformation in a very short period of time. And then at the end of that I asked, okay, well, if I could do it with my body, can I do it with my relationships? Can I do it with my mental and emotional health? And can I do it with my sense of purpose? So all I did was I took the strategies and the principles that worked inside the gym, applying them outside the gym, and boom, transformation. And it was, it was pretty cool. All right, yeah. And I love that we're gonna get into all that. And I want to just address one thing you mentioned there a lot of people talk about if they went a year, right, and they took a photo of themselves a year later, I imagine most people would say, okay, maybe I've gotten heavier, I've gotten bigger and I kind of know that I was doing stuff that maybe led to that right. And you had this maybe different perspective of thinking you were doing all the right things and then didn't change at all. And so before we get into the all the not in the gym, just real quickly in the gym. I'm just curious, what are the secrets that you discovered that that small changes that you made for that transformation? Well, the big one, the biggest mistake was staring me right in the face and That for me, there's, in order to make any transformation that goes for in the gym and outside the gym, there's four key components that I found work for me. And it's measure, measure, manage, test and track. So what am I measuring? Like, specifically, what do I want to measure and I, I don't use weights, I imagine maybe during this conversation or if you would be so kind to come on my podcast, we're going to talk about the whole weight loss thing. I'm those are dirty words for me, but I get it. But anyway, so I don't focus on weight, I wanted to focus on putting on muscle and my the amount of definition which to me made sense to literally track the amount of pounds I had that were muscle, and the definition that I saw when I looked in the mirror. So I just started tracking that stuff on a weekly basis taking the glamour shot, so I could see if I was making changes. So that was as measuring and then managing was probably the most important part for me managing is all about, okay, I know what mistakes I'm gonna make in advance. I know the excuses I have for not going to the gym, I know the excuses I have for having pizza, instead of making a home cooked meal instead of going and stopping at the drive thru instead of waiting till I get home to have the food that I've spent hours prepping. And now I'm gonna have to throw out because I have no self discipline to not stop at the drive that I know those excuses. So how can I manage them in advance? And this is something you talked about in your episode number 30 With regards to moving into the intellect, part of forming habits, right? So that's what I did that was the most important part was figuring out what are the mistakes that I make the most often? And how can I make those mistakes hard to make? And that changed everything? So I Alright, love it, ya know, a couple of couple things you touched on too. I would like to get detail on those if we could. But like you said, we can do another podcast about like body composition and weight and stuff. But I'm curious when you say you measured the amount of muscle being gained. So to me if I did that, it would be either trying to estimate my lean mass based on body fat, or using something like circumference measurements combined with performance and maybe photos. I mean, what what of those did you actually use? For muscle mass, specifically, I have a scale called the renforth scale. And that tracks all the stuff right. But what I did, the day before I got the Renfrow scale is I went somewhere here in Winnipeg called body measure. And I did a DEXA scan DEXA DEXA scan is the gold standard for knowing what's going on inside your body. So after I got my DEXA scan results, I compared those to the Renfrow to see how accurate was and they were pretty bang on like it was the difference was negligible. So therefore I just started using the Renfrow scale to track the amount of lean muscle and body fat and everything that I had. So yeah, cool. Yeah. In the way I say it is like even if the number, the absolute number is not precise for you, it's going to change predictably, like, you know if it goes up 3% or down 3% pretty much changed by that amount for you. That's exactly, yeah, that's Yeah, as long as you have that reference point. That's why whenever I had clients were like, should I use a scale at home? Or should I use the scale of the gym? I said, Oh, no care. Just use the same one. All the same one. Same condition. Same one. Yeah. All right. So in your I want to get into the morning muscle, I want to understand what this is all about. I did listen to your show. In the episode why most men fail, most men fail being the man. And this is for people listening to the inspired by the impact podcast that that you run that you have. You introduced the concept of the morning muscle up. So what is that? So the morning muscle up has now been switched to the mental muscle

Philip Pape: 8:34

because you can edit that out.

Carl Berryman: 8:37

I say the morning because for me, I if I want to make sure I 100% get something done. It has to get done in the morning. Otherwise, willpower, which is an exhaustible resource runs out and then I find excuses and it doesn't get done. However, one of my best friends Jeff, who is a new father is son Nixon's like three months old. He's like, Carl, I barely get any sleep. I can't do this in the morning. Is it? Okay, if I do this when Nixon goes to bed at night? As long as I'm doing the things in the next 24 hours? And yeah, absolutely. It's like, then you should change it to the mental muscle up. I'm like, Alright, so I'll do that. Well, none of it makes sense. The mental muscle up really was what it is, is it's a cure for something that I was struggling with hardcore pretty much my entire adult life in that I've been a self help and personal development junkie for the last I'm 43. Now, since I was 19 years old. And I found that no matter how many books I read podcasts, I listened to courses, I took all that jazz. I wasn't seeing the change that I wanted to make. But then when I took a real look in the mirror, it's like Carl, you're consuming a lot of content, but you're not really doing anything with it. You're getting motivated and you're getting ideas but either a those ideas are never getting started or be you're never following through on some like okay, well how do I stop this? So what I did was a couple of years. ago I started a journaling process where I would just ask myself for questions for questions like, say, if I'm listening to one year podcasts, and I did it. What's the fourth on Wednesday, I've got actually created my own journal magnate, the impact journal. And so the other day, I took something from your podcast and ran it through here, because I was inspired by something that was shared in your podcast, and I didn't not want to take action on. So I have what's in here called the notable, quotable. So it's usually just a quote that you get from a book or a podcast and you guys talked about the extinction protocol. And I loved that. I love that that resonated with me big time. I'm like, Okay, well, what can I do to implement this in the next 24 hours? So question, one inside of the mental muscle up is what your situation? In other words, you're defining the problem that you have. And you're phrasing in the form of a question so that at the end of this, you can come up with an answer to that question. And so really long story short on this one, what I came up with was, over the holidays, I told myself that I was going to not be so adherent to my nutrition plan. And I went completely off the rails, completely off the rails. And it was, it's not awesome, and it's not who I know I am. And it's not who I want to be. And I made excuses. And I fell for those excuses. I told him, I rationalized it like crazy. And sure enough, two weeks a holidays, the next glamour shot does not look how I wanted to look. And I didn't want to let that happen, because I could have managed it better. So taking your extinction protocol into play. What I did was, rather than looking at the foods I wanted to extinct, I looked at the excuses that I wanted to extinct. And for me, it was social gatherings. That was my number one common error as to why I did like I deterred from or I diverted from how I normally eat. So now I've identified myself just like it gets in that podcast where he says, I'm just someone who doesn't eat chocolate, I am now someone who doesn't eat fast food, I just don't, because I'll cook whatever it is that I could get it to fast food, it'll be way healthier, and probably tastes better. So now I am somebody who doesn't eat fast food. And so that's what I got from your podcast, making sure that you take it just run it through this stuff, there's a couple more questions in there to get a little bit more detailed and a little bit more of your emotions out. But long story short, it's taking something that you hear that really resonates with you and making sure that you can take action on in the next 24 hours.

Philip Pape: 12:29

That's great. Because there's so it's so fleeting, we think we think our minds are going to remember things right? You hear something that's just burst in your brain, you could be driving in the car, listen to podcast, and you just keep going right? You just keep going. And then like five more things come in, and that first thing is long gone. But then, but then at the same time, I think if I take the time to write this down, then I'm gonna have 1000 things that I wrote, is that is that going to help me either, you know? So how do you deal with that, like not not letting that be overwhelming and really picking and choosing the things that are most helpful to you?

Carl Berryman: 13:03

That's a really good question. And so I'm all about taking analogies from the gym, right? So say, for example, this morning, I go in and I, I'm training with the clients, and I train with my clients now most of the time. Excuse me. And so I go in there, and I know what we're going to be doing for our workout. But imagine if I went in there, and it's like, oh, that piece of equipment is great. Oh, yeah, that one's great. Well, those kettlebells are great. Oh, yeah, that barbell is great. Oh, yeah, the the assault bike, and all that stuff. And I just start trying to design a workout based on that like, no, Carl, what muscle groups are you're focusing on today? And what type of style training are you going on? So there was two exercises? That was it. And we use kettlebells? For both? That was it super simple. So going into a podcast when I'm listening, what I used to do is I would take a screenshot of the time when something hits me. But I noticed in an hour long podcast, I would have about 45 screenshots. So what I'm telling myself now as I get my I'm allowed to come up with four. That's it. Four. So if ever I want to take a timestamp, I got to I got to think to myself, Okay, is this one worthy of the four? Or is it better than the previous one? Because now you're gonna have to erase something as soon as that gets a four. That's it? Because like you, I would have all these things written down. And it's like, no, why. It's just like Meals what like going to a restaurant where there's so many things on the menu, it makes it impossible to choose, the shorter the shorter the menu or the smaller it is, the easier it is to achieve. So same thing with those aha moments.

Philip Pape: 14:33

Yeah, that's great advice for people listening. I mean, it's all about planning and managing this stuff. And you had it you had a question for how to do that now. Now I'm going to think twice about it too because I actually listen to a lot of my podcasts while working out and and I also ended up giving myself my 20 item to do lists while working out and there's a correlation there. You know what I mean? The because i The ideas come to my mind. Oh, this this is a great thing. This guy said or this reminds me I need do you do this or I need to do this in my business? And it's like, yeah, boom, boom, boom, boom. So what you're saying about kind of also going in with a plan of limiting how many things you're gonna come out with is helpful to avoid the overwhelm.

Carl Berryman: 15:11

Yeah, the other one that's helped me as well, too. This one can backfire sometimes, but I heard one time in terms of writing a whole bunch of stuff done down the good stuff sticks. So when you hear something, it's like, oh, yeah, cuz there are some things where I'm like, that was massive. And then it's like, yeah, there's no way I'm gonna forget that. I'm just, I'm just not going to like it as much as I like I did snapshot when I was listening to your podcasts about the extinction protocol. But I'm like, I knew that there's no way I'm gonna forget that. I'm just Yeah,

Philip Pape: 15:44

man, people listening to this. By the time we're done, I hope to have like, 30 things they want to take away. I'm gonna have to really. So just one. Yeah. Yeah. And up with just one. Yes, yes, yes. So let's keep going and produce some of these, these these massive hits for people. All right. I want to get into some of your unique things related to men specifically, and see where we take that right. So a little bit more sober here with the statistics, some of the Autistics you shared with me, that seem highly unique to men, one of those that enlighten me a bit is that men make up 80% of suicide, right? Yes. Why is that?

Carl Berryman: 16:20

I can't say for anybody else. But I had one occasion where I seriously thought about it I. And it was it was it was very fleeting. And I didn't do anything crazy. Nothing manifested from it, thank God. But there was one moment where I seriously just thought that you know what, I wouldn't be better off not alive. That's how I thought back in 2020. And I think the reasons that it happened for me will be very, will be pretty universal among men. And it's because while there are multiple reasons, number one was I was hiding everything I was feeling like other than my partner, Jenny Lee, who even you she knew a little bit, but she didn't know that depth of the darkness. I was feeling anytime anybody asked me how I'm doing was, oh, yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine. And I wouldn't talk about it. And it's just, I would, the way that I numb, my pain is through binging on Netflix, like I'll just sit there. And just like, it wasn't all that long ago, this still comes up every once in a while where I was on the couch for like 14 and a half hours, the only time I got up was to get some food, take the dogs for a walk or go to the bathroom. And I'm just binging because I just did not want to deal with what was going on in my head. And inside of me. And you do that for enough time, it's no different. Think about looking at looking in the emotional mirror or stepping on the emotional scale. If you avoid, like I've got I'm sure you've had lots of clients to who when they know they've had a bad week or something like that they don't step on the scale, because they're afraid of what the numbers gonna say. Now imagine doing that for decades emotionally, how much things are going to build up without you realizing it and never looking in the mirror and not having any indicators for where your mental and emotional health is at. And that was me. And I didn't realize because after the fact that I realized the one thing that changed the game for me with regards to my mental emotional health was the connection I had with other men. Because I joined several men's coaching programs where vulnerability was the name of the game, where you hear men sharing things about their addictions, their relationships, their bodies, and everything like that. And you're realizing holy cow, maybe I'm not the only one out here that suffering like this. And if there's one thing that really learned, it's that we just don't want to feel like we're alone. Because you look on the surface, especially with social media the way it is, it seems like everybody is living a perfect life, when it couldn't be further from the truth. Like people, people might look at you and I people who are really into fitness and I don't know about you, but getting to the gym is still like it's tough for me. And like I know for I know for a fact that Yeah, after the workout, I'm gonna feel amazing. But there are a lot of times where it like I work out pretty early and I'm up at 405 is when my alarm goes off. And there's there's times where it's like no, I would love to sleep in right now. Especially in Winnipeg. It's freezing right now. It'd be nice, even. But I've got to get there. And it's nice to know that I'm not the only one who struggles with that. And once you start realizing that you're not the only one, and that other men are suffering the same way all the sudden some of that pain goes away. And my favorite one of my favorite quotes that I got from one of the coaches inside that program coach Sam filosofi, he said pain shared his pain divided and success share to success multiplied. So that's kind of the mantra behind everything I'm doing right now, hoping to expose myself as much as possible so that people can realize, holy cow. I'm not the only one who struggles with this. And not only that, but if there's some potential solutions that worked for Carl to get him to where he is. Maybe I can try those on and see if they fit for me they might but not but they but they might. So yeah, I don't know if I had

Philip Pape: 20:04

to Yeah, no, no, it did, you gave me a lot to think about and thank you for, for sharing your, the personal struggle, you went through a few things like, again, Bursting My Brain, from you saying that when I think of talking to my men, male clients, right, so, so female clients seem to like really have the language down in general. Because this stuff, you know, and even better than I do, and I'm the coach, but my male clients, I do sometimes feel like, I'm the only person they've opened up to about some of this stuff and acting sort of as that support in their life. And just yesterday, I had a conversation with a client, we had, you know, very successful, long phase together, and he's ready to move on, because he's, he knows what he's doing. He's confident now he's gonna fire me, and that's how it goes. And it's okay, that's what I want. But he, he said, you know, part of why I was accountable, because it's because you got excited when I got excited. And you mentioned something about, like, our successes together as well. Every time you gave me feedback, and you're like, you know, look at your metabolism going. And I got excited. And then that kept me going. And I feel like some men maybe don't even have anybody else. There even their own spouses they may not share that with so yeah, that's that's, that's an interesting thought, Carl, so you mentioned techniques or things what what's something that comes to mind? For someone who doesn't have that right now?

Carl Berryman: 21:21

Well, first and foremost, I just want to back up and talk a little bit about what you just said there because it's not to be skipped over. And it is, it is wonderful, because I mentioned how my connection with other men in my life is literally what saved my life. Having those connections, it's critical now where you go through those connections. And it's interesting, because a lot of the guys that I I'm very fortunate now where I have about five or six other men that I can have very, very vulnerable conversations with like conversations where when we leave, it's always I love you, brother. And it's like that. And my saying you have to open up and let the waterworks come out? No, absolutely. It's just like in the gym, where if you go in the gym, let's say if your man right now, and you're you're not even aware of what your emotions are, because you don't have any words for him. Because statistically speaking, women have a lot larger the language database for emotions than we do. So they therefore they can identify and express them better. But if you're going to the gym, you're not going to look at what somebody who is like been doing it for years do and put the same amount of weight on the bar, if you're doing dads, whatever and go in there and try to lift that weight, no, you're going to do something that is a nice small start for you. So where I recommend starting, if you want to learn how to express your emotions better with other people, the first person to start with is yourself. And that's what journaling has done for me so much like just getting just trying to get what's going on for me out onto paper, because then it's not occupying so much space up there. And in here, at least it's on paper. So I started there. And once my language started to get better, and I gained more confidence of expressing myself to myself, then I started sharing that with other men. And as soon as you start sharing with other men, the one thing I'm hearing more and more with every single man I'm connecting with now, mostly through like podcasts that had been on. As soon as the recording goes off, we'll have a conversation that way, Carl, I this is amazing, because I can't talk like this with other men. And really now that I think about it, that is the challenge. And the problem I am trying to solve with my podcast and with the journal is I want to bring men together into a space where that becomes the norm. And it's just like in the gym. Like one of the analogies I use in the gym all the time now is level 123123 Like one come in, take it nice and easy. There's nothing wrong with that. Maybe it's a bad day, maybe you have an injury, maybe you're just tired, I don't know, level two, dial it up and you can dial back when you need YOU GO GO GO GO GO and you're like, Okay, I overdid that step back form starting to go step back. Level three is like today is the day I'm feeling great. All cylinders are firing I'm going to give it so same thing with communicating between men. If you're the type of man who doesn't really know how to express your feelings yet just coming in watch coming in here, our the men are doing it. And then after that, dial it up, maybe you can connect with with one or two or whatever. And then finally start leading the group through your experience. So that would be the first things dialing that way back. Start getting stuff out on paper with yourself. Nobody else needs to read it. Nobody else will ever see it. You never need to read it again. Just see if you can start saying stuff on paper. And especially stuff you would never say to somebody's face. Like genuinely my partner she knows. I write some stuff down about her that if I said it out loud, we wouldn't be together. I write it down on paper because it needs to get out as soon as it's out. Not only that, but I can see how ridiculous it is. Now that resentment that was building up inside of me. It's on the paper. It's not going to come time when she comes home from work and I'm supposed to give her a hug and a kiss It's an Ask her how her day was where I have that thing lingering in my mind. And I'll just, she'll come home and be like, what's wrong with you? Because that used to happen. It used to happen, it's probably started doing this.

Philip Pape: 25:10

That's a good one. I mean, it's really good because I was just thinking, my own relationship with my wife, which is, I think, very healthy. And she she does her best to get me to talk as much as I can. But I see that why golf? You know, because to me, she's like Deanna Troi, from Star Trek, she's like an empath. You know, everything is just there out in the open to her. And for me, it's like, you know, there's always that wall, right? It's just weird how the genetics work. I also saw, I don't know what it was that I was watching. Maybe six months ago, they were talking about how we men also tend to use humor as like a defensive mechanism. That's like the word romance. You know, it's kind of us saying like, it's not that important. It's just this, bro. You know what I mean? Like, we're like making light of it. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. All right. So another another statistic, which I man is related to this, and somehow is that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. So yes. Is that related to this? Would you say, the communication gap or something else? Absolutely. I

Carl Berryman: 26:07

just think a lot of times women aren't getting what they signed up for in the marriage, right. And I think what happens there, I'm from my experience, because I was married and divorced. And then Jenny Lee, and I, my current partner, we separated for three months in 2020. And with the provision that we don't, we didn't know, if we were gonna get back together, we were pretty much sure it was done, but we weren't going to communicate for three months. And if at the end of three months, if we initiated a call. Sure, we'll check it out. Luckily, we're both working on some hardcore self development individually during that time. So when we got together, when we got back together, we're both, if you will, better versions of ourselves. But with regards to divorces, or relationships, ending, why it happened for me multiple times with all the people I've met before Jenny Lee, was because I treated it just like I would in the gym where things just plateaued. They plateau like I just, I stopped take, when you get to the gym, you're motivated, everything's going well, you're seeing results right away. And then as soon as you hit a plateau, something happens, and you just kind of stop doing the things that you need to do to get you to that next level. And that's what I would do. Like, I'd start making exceptions to things that used to be rules. So rules, for example, is Jenny Lee and I had a date night when we first started dating, we're coming up on nine years now. When we first started dating date night was a massive deal. Like I'd set up a playlist, I make sure I had the menu ready, I made sure I had the all the alcohol for the cocktails, I wanted to make a special wine and go at dinner like and it was all planned out. Fast forward three or four years date night is chilling out on the couch, not really talking to each other, just watching the movie and maybe having a couple laughs and all of a sudden, that's the bar that's like going from the gym, going from working out four or five days a week with really, really good intensity to just going to the gym, going to the gym and walking on the treadmill for 15 minutes. Like Like, what do you expect to happen to your body if you dial it down that much. And relationships are no different. So that's where I started taking some of the strategies from inside the gym outside the gym, where I want specifically was like, I know what styles of workouts I like in the gym, and what works for me and what keeps me consistent. I know what exercises I like, and I know what exercises hurt. So I stay away from those ones and which ones I don't like. So with Jenny Lee, I literally have a list of exercises that I've written down, that I can look at and be like, This is how she knows that I love her. So I'm going to make sure I am getting in my reps with these exercises every single week. And just like with my body, I started tracking it. I've got an app on my phone, I have to do X number of these per week in order for Jenny in order for me to have the best chances of making sure that Jenny Lee knows that I love her. So I hit those exercises every single week. And it's super small. It can be something like for example, Throwback Thursday. So what I'll do on Thursdays, is I go into my phone, and I scan through the camera rule. And I look for a picture from this month, four or five years ago, and then I'll send it to her with a little story. And that's something that I know she appreciates. So it's getting in those reps, getting in those reps, getting in those reps and making sure you're aware of whether or not you're plateauing in your relationship. So 70% of divorces, I would say and I said this in my last podcast is like death by 1000 cuts. It's never been it's rarely one thing. It's gonna be all those little things that all of a sudden you wake up one day, you leave some dirty dishes on the wrong side of the sink, your partner flips out and says you know what I'm out of here. It's like because there's dishes on the wrong side of the sink. No, because of the 1000 things that happened before that.

Philip Pape: 29:52

Hey, this is Philip Pape. And if you feel like you've put in effort to improve your health and fitness but aren't getting results, I invite you to apply for a one on one coaching aim to make real progress and get the body you desire. We'll work together to figure out what's missing. So you can look better, perform better and feel better. Just go to wits & weights.com/coaching, to learn about my program and apply today. Now back to the episode. Yeah, and I imagine that the, your spouse is probably telling you this over the years to you're not necessarily listening. Because I just to give an example, with, you know, we all we're all on our phones all the time, and, and I'm on a lot these days, because because my business as well. And I know that when my wife talks to me, whenever I'm gonna, even if I'm in the middle of work, it's like she, you know, my brain has to say, she's talking to me stop, like, put it down and look at her and listen, you know what I mean? Like, just the simple things like that, you know, are gonna make her happy. But I really love all these ideas you have about reminders and planning it. Because, you know, I tell people that same way about nutrition, right? You got to plan out your day, plan out your food, you know, plan out the gym, so why wouldn't you do the same? You know, we plan out our work with our calendars. Yes, that's really good. Every guy you talked to on these podcasts probably comes out with similar like revelations, man, this is great stuff.

Carl Berryman: 31:10

That's good. That's good. I'm really glad everybody's accepting it that way. Because like I said, this is just stuff that's worked for me. I don't know if it will work for anybody else. I've tried to make sure a lot of it is very principle based that way can kind of go across everything. And it's not unique to an individual. So I'm really, I'm very hopeful and confident that that will be the case once this gets a little bit more.

Philip Pape: 31:33

So no, I want it. I want to get pictures from four years ago of you and your partner and send it to my wife. Isn't that what you want me to do that exact?

Carl Berryman: 31:44

That would be hilarious. Yeah. Is this class?

Philip Pape: 31:49

Alright, so I don't know, let's you want to go back into the fitness side for a bit. Let's do that. A little bit. Absolutely. Okay, so the fitness industry? Like what's your opinion on that? Right, what we taught one of the core principles of this podcast is the skepticism of the industry. I think it's right in a healthy skepticism, a healthy skepticism, right? Because there's there's misinformation there's even dangerous information, if you will, there's there's perverse incentives, of course, with supplementation, you know, companies and the influencers, and how the algorithms push things and all of that, a lot of that it'd be nice to just kind of ignore it. But then people I think, are overwhelmed and don't know where to go. And it's like, how do you what needs to change? What's bad with the fitness industry? What's good? What needs to change? In your opinion? Big question, right? This

Carl Berryman: 32:38

is gonna be an eight hour podcast. The first man, where do I even begin? For me, my single biggest pet peeve is weight loss. my single biggest pet peeve is weight loss, or anything to do with weight. And here's why, like, I'm still I, I really hope that I can't imagine this will happen in my lifetime. But at some point in time, if I could look back and see that the term weight loss has never been used again, that would be phenomenal. I'll give you a perfect accent. I'll give you two really good examples as to why I've got a client who's 66 On Tuesday, actually, he's in Hawaii right now celebrating he's, he's, he's so amazing. I've had him for four or five years now. And he's, he's in incredible shape. Like, if he were to come to one of my group fitness training classes, he would own a lot of us. And he's like, six, five, like, he's not a small guy. And when we first sat down and got together, like, Okay, well, what what is your number one goal, and he listed a weight that he wanted to get down to? I'm like, Okay, there's bells going off in my head, because I don't want to hear that. But I understand that's important to him. I'm not going to tell him it shouldn't be. So I said, Okay, well, what are four facts that you believe are going to be true for you when you get there? So he said, Well, I want my visceral fat to go down for sure I want my body fat to go down. I want to be able to fit into this size suit, and I want injuries to be reduced. It's like, Okay, now we've got our measurables are tangible, measurables way before we got down to the weight that he wanted, or he thought he had to get down to in order to achieve those things, we achieve those things. So if that's the case, why are we not focusing on the facts that we expect to be real for us? So the other example is me. I typically was walking around, or Yeah, about 150 pounds. I'm like 5859, let's say that. And I was typically walking around at about 150 pounds. I always told myself ever since I was probably 25. That in order to look and feel and perform the way that I want to I need to be 165 pounds with a body fat percentage less than 865 pounds of body fat percentage last night. So I'm like, okay, my body fat percentage at the time was 15. I've got to get it down to eight and I've got to put on 15 pounds. That when I made the transformation in 2020 at the end of 2020, beginning of 2021 It was 63 days, and I went from 150 to 148 So actually lost two pounds. And I went from a body fat percentage of 15 to 12. So dropped 3%. And I looked felt in performing the way that I wanted to. So that number I had in my head was just so inaccurate, like insanely inaccurate. But the other thing that I would transform about the health and fitness industry is getting people to make the habits they want to adopt their goal. Like what like the behaviors, I want to measure my behaviors, the process, the end results of those behaviors? Because I don't know if you've read the book atomic habits. Clear? Yes, yeah, it's so good. And there's so many things in there, the analogy he makes is, if you're a basketball team, you know what your out outcome is, it's the championship, but are you going to spend the entire game looking up at the scoreboard? No, you're going to focus on the fundamentals that are going to get you to score those points, because then the win is inevitable. So same thing with the health and fitness industry, if we could somehow get people off of this number on the scale, and say, Okay, let's spend a little bit of time helping you figure out exactly what you want to look, feel and perform like. But now that we have that crystal clear, let's spend 90% of our time figuring out how we're going to make it as easy as possible for you to engage in the behaviors that are going to lead you to that outcome and just focus 100% on the system, like James Comey said, You do not rise to the level of your goals, you fall to the level of your system. Yeah, so focusing on the system is what we need to do. That's what happens process.

Philip Pape: 36:26

So first, I'm gonna go through all my materials and make sure I don't have the term weight loss anywhere. No, no, no, no, it's funny, because I actually agree with you, I'll say I'll say 90%. Because, from my perspective, it's the term weight loss can mean different things. But I also prefer the term fat loss when we're talking about what people are trying to get to. And then I go beyond that, and say, well really want you to do is feel good, right? You want to look and feel good in your clothes. And you kind of keep going from there. Because where I am right now, I'm five, nine, like you. And I just finished a building phase. And I'm like, 187, and I'm just, you know, I'm feeling I'm feeling fluffy. Right? I'm like, feeling that way. Yeah. And and it's not my optimal feeling. But at the same time, I know, all my lifts went up. So I'm excited. And the process to get there was great. And I'm happy with it's like a little trade off. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So all that I totally agree. Because I think weight loss cells, right? I think we know that that the quick fix is what says, But Instagram and all these guys are gonna push the things that get clicks, you know, you're never gonna go away like that.

Carl Berryman: 37:31

That's what I want to challenge you on? Because Okay, okay, perspective on this, because one thing that you talked about so much as body composition, yes, body composition, like if we can focus on body composition or body re composition. So for me, I think about using the term weight loss because it sells, but then I'm like, Ah, I feel like I'm lacking integrity if I do, right, because I want to get people away from that. And I know, it's like clickbait and everything like that. But it's got to start somewhere. It has to start somewhere. And with somebody, I'm like, I don't know. Ah, that's what I struggle with. So I'm really curious what your opinion is on that, in terms of the integrity with weight loss, or, you know, what, if that's somebody's language, great. And then maybe we can, hopefully influenced them to see that there's other alternatives they can focus on? I don't know, what's your opinion? Yeah, I

Philip Pape: 38:24

actually don't use weight loss very often at all, I'm not even sure I'm not even sure you'd find it on my website, or most other places, to be honest. But I do know very high integrity coaches that use it, they'll use terms like sustainable weight loss, or something like that. And, and when you look at their system and their the approach, it's not that dissimilar, it's a very lifestyle based, you know, you don't even start dieting until you get all the other things up to where they need to be, you know, your movement, your training, and so on. And then it's more of the acknowledgement that most people are probably carrying either an unhealthy level of weight quote, unquote, weight that impacts their health, you know, like their the blood pressure, cholesterol, all that stuff. Or that, like you said, people don't realize that the weight they want to be at is this random number may not have anything to do with the weight they need to be at to feel the way they want to feel. Right, right. And I've had clients, usually women who really are focused on losing the weight and and I've sort of convinced them maybe, or gotten them to convince themselves to build muscle first, and get into a conversation of like, Hey, can we can we were you, you were an extra jacket. It's winter like, and not worry about the physique as much in the short term. And guess what, you're gonna feel really good. And then the whole mindset starts to change where it's like growth and adding to your body and including things and then yeah, and then we can go through a fat loss phase, that's like, you're now training really hard. We're going to hold on to muscle like you've never done before. When you've done weight loss, and we're just going to lose fat. It's gonna be a different, different experience. And you're not going to have to lose 20 pounds, you might only have to lose five or 10, right? Because you've got all this muscle so you have to I mean, Weight in terms of body mass has to come into play somewhere to measure. Yes, yeah, I agree shouldn't be an obsessive thing. Yeah,

Carl Berryman: 40:07

I think you just hit on what would be I think it might be number three that I would 100% change about the health and fitness industry. And it's focusing on what you need to add as opposed to what you need to take away. So like adding muscle? Absolutely. So for me the way that I when I'm on my onpoint with nutrition, I use something an app called Dr. Greger Gregers daily doesn't you know who Dr. Greger is, I don't, but I should probably you wrote a book called How Not to Die, and then follow up with another book, how not to diet. And so he has an app called Dr. All that reminds me I showed it to my client this morning, I forgot to send it to her because she wants it for her dad. Anyways, I got to do that. In it. He has a list of he's a huge plant based advocate. So no meat, no dairy, nothing like that. And I'm the majority of plant based like I might have one or two meals a week that have some meat or dairy in it. Because I love pizza and burgers. But in the app, he has a list of all the things that you want to make sure you're getting in a day, and you can get 24 points out of it. So there's grains, there's berries, there's greens, cruciferous veg exercises on their waters on their nuts and seeds, herbs and spices, all those things. So I know for me that I have a baseline of what I absolutely minimum have to get out of 24. And it's 12. Ideally, I'm closer to 20 on a daily basis. So what happens is when I think about having the burger or the pizza, or the Boston Cream doughnut, which anybody who knows me knows is one of my vices. When I think about having that, I have to look at what I've had already first, because if I don't have like, if I'm not at like 17, or 18, or 20 on the list, guess what, I've got to get to that list first. So then I'll have a meal, that rep that has those points in it, those qualities and those ingredients. And now all of a sudden, guess what I don't want after I have that meal, because I'm focused on adding the good things as if you automatically add muscle, you will subtract that if you automatically add good nutrient dense foods into your life into your meal plan, you will automatically not have rooms or those non nutrient dense foods. So adding is a huge thing.

Philip Pape: 42:26

Yeah, it crowds things out. That's like another way I like putting people out. I love that. And a simple way. It's it's similar approach to what you said, you know, now with the point system, but most people don't have enough protein in their diet. And if they start to focus on getting more protein, if you think about where you get protein in the world, unless you're buying a bunch of protein bars and whey shakes, it's pretty much whole foods like that's at either animal sources, or if you're plant based, there's plant sources to get your protein. And including way which ways is one of the exceptions, I like to make the processed foods because it really is just a high quality part of milk. But if you start saying well now I need the five times a day and I have to get enough protein it starts to crowd things out it just Yeah. Oh, now I need some either, you know, rice and oats and I need meat and eggs, dairy and all these things. Yeah. So it's a good philosophy to take anything.

Carl Berryman: 43:19

Yeah, I absolutely love that the street you call it crowd you are crowded out

Philip Pape: 43:23

crowds. You still have room for it. Like you said, you haven't gotten this in yet. And then once you get it in, I'm not gonna have that Coke, you know, or I'm not gonna have that other thing because there's no room for it.

Carl Berryman: 43:32

Yeah, yeah, I'm just so you know, I'm 100% steel in that crowded pool.

Philip Pape: 43:38

I'm still a whole bunch of things for this and good thing that's being recorded. All right, so what else? Let's see. So fitness. We talked about the fitness industry. What do you saw? We didn't talk too much about your training specifically, but what do you think it means to get in shape or get in the best shape of your life? You know, how does somebody do that? Okay,

Carl Berryman: 43:57

so, for me, a couple years ago, I came up with this idea, or actually, I guess it was in 2017. When I joined the men's men's group, one of the guys on there, him and I he saw that I worked out and he lived in like the Ukraine or something like that. But he saw that I worked out. I saw him doing some pretty cool videos. So we got to be friends. And then he challenged me to a 500 burpee contest. And so yeah, he did 500 burpees. And I'm like, okay, whatever, I'll give it a go. And he did it. I think he did it in just under 45 minutes or something like that. And so I had no idea how long it was gonna take me. So I was actually visiting Jenny Lee's parents in Vancouver at the time. And so one day I decided whatever I'll I'll give it a go. So I went outside and I made sure I didn't have the clock on so I couldn't see the timer, and I made sure I had really good music going and it just took my time. I had no idea what it's going to be like, and sure enough, I I wanted to have a really good song for the last 50 are really good music for last 50. So I turned on my phone and the timer came on. And it was at like 43 and a half. I'm like, oh, no, I've got a minute and a half to do 50 which obviously isn't gonna happen, but I came close. So ever since then, I've had very specific workouts that I do on a monthly basis to assess where I'm at compared to where I used to be. So the one that I was doing last summer that worked out really, really good. Was the Murph, are you?

Philip Pape: 45:34

Yeah. Which one is that? That's the mile and then to other

Carl Berryman: 45:38

the, you run a mile you do 100 Pull Ups, 200 push ups, 300 squats run another week. And that was that was the bar for me to see if my time was improving. So when I was doing it, my time was improving. So now with my clients inside the gym to once a month for three consecutive months, we do the same workout. So then it involves strength and insult, volume, stamina, endurance, even mobility and flexibility. And we assess so are you better than the previous version of yourself. Because not only is that going to require a lot of consistency, both inside and outside the gym. I know you're huge on this, the mindset components is like a lot of people think that I was having a conversation with a buddy the other day, he's like, Oh, we all know that, like changing your body is 20% workouts 80% nutrition. I'm like you're missing a lot of components there. There's the mindset component, because if you don't think that your mindset and like influences how you eat, and how you work out, you're missing something. The prep work is something I follow. It's just an acronym, I had physical health and fitness, relationship health and fitness, emotional health and fitness and purpose health and fitness. If you think the quality of your relationship is not affecting the quality of the food that you put in your body, and the quality of the workouts that you have, and the quality of sleep that you have, like there's so many things in that pie chart that we neglect. But anyways, answering your question we have, and I have very specific workouts that we do once a month to make sure that we are making progress in the direction that we want to go. Whether that's lifting more weight, doing things in a shorter amount of time, going faster, being more mobile, whatever it is.

Philip Pape: 47:18

Yeah, that makes sense, right? Because that's subjective. And it sort of, I guess if you reverse engineer it, I assume you don't just do it in a vacuum and say all right, the months in between do whatever you want and then we're going to test you have a plan to get there right now work on that specific skills there is it just you know that the Murph is a pretty is kind of a catch all so that, yeah, right.

Carl Berryman: 47:40

It's a catch all in so many ways, because it, it's very mentally daunting. Like, especially the pull ups like 100 pull ups is, it's not easy. It's not easy, like 300 squats, it's bodyweight. I don't do the weighted vests like it's our original one is I don't do the weighted vest. Not yet. That's for sure. But 30 Like doing doing 300 squats bodyweight when you weigh 145 pounds is not that big a deal. So and push push ups to right. When you when you don't weigh that much. Isn't that big a deal. But the pull ups pull ups get? Yeah. Yeah.

Philip Pape: 48:16

Even that much harder when you weigh more. Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's one, one lift that goes way up. When I lose weight. Yeah. Pull up. You know, have you heard of the 40%? Rule? Danny? I think it's Danny Goggins the Navy SEAL. David God, David Goggins? There you go, David. Yes.

Carl Berryman: 48:34

It until you said his name. David. No, yes, we're actually only when we think we're done. We're actually only at 40% of our capacity.

Philip Pape: 48:42

I thought of that with your burpees. Because I'm like, if you did that next time, and got to 500. Are you only 40% done with your capacity? Could you do another AC

Carl Berryman: 48:53

that 700. Now you've totally challenged me, because when I started doing the burpees, I would do them in sets of 25 or no sets 20. I do set to 20. And I just did how many of them went up to 500. And then I started doing the last time I did it. I started off in sets of 25 for the first 200. Then for the next 200. I went in sets of 50. So that's only for four sets. And then the final 100. I just did in one straight set. So that just goes to show you that sure my capacity has increased over time, but at the same time, was it really at 100%? And the answer is always going to be no i for me. I can't imagine ever getting to 100% I can't imagine there ever being a time where there wasn't a second that could have shaved

Philip Pape: 49:41

off do one Yeah. Or you can do one more burpee and then one more burpee like indefinitely for days on end, right? Yeah,

Carl Berryman: 49:46

but the 40% rule, huge because it's just like when you get to that point in the set where the burn starts to kick in. That's not when the set ends. That's when it started. Like everything else before Without is just foreplay. Now the set begins, like, what are you going to do from this point on, as long as your form doesn't give away, because that's my biggest pet peeve is just doing things for the sake of getting in the reps of the short amount of time without any consideration to what your form is like or why you're doing the exercise in the first place. So yeah, that next that's right up there with weight loss for me.

Philip Pape: 50:20

And yeah, you remind me of my CrossFit days. I don't do much of that anymore. But yeah, I remember talking about that. Yeah, yeah, that especially what was it grace, doing grace for the cleaning jerks? So I know we're getting close on time. There's one thing a couple more things if you don't mind. Yeah, of course. There's you were talking about I think this was on one of your podcasts as well. about the importance of accountability for yourself, but also people around you I think you were talking about your your I don't know if you're talking to your actual brothers or your like, brother,

Carl Berryman: 50:50

but I call Yeah, I call all my good all the good men that I consider to be in what I call my love nest, like the most important people. Yeah, like, I just, yeah, I refer to them as brothers. I

Philip Pape: 51:01

know that makes a lot more sense to me since this conversation. No, no, no,

Carl Berryman: 51:04

I've only got two real older brothers and right. That's it. So yeah, the the these guys are just, we refer to each other as brothers. So

Philip Pape: 51:14

yeah, yeah. And you talked about kind of not the way I interpreted it like not being the No at all that's trying to teach them what to do. But you want to shoulder some you said shoulder some of the suffering of your loved ones. Yeah, and express your passion and love in a receptive and patient way to help them but without like, overstepping, so how do we put that into practice? Okay, so solving everybody's problems on the show? No, no, you're

Carl Berryman: 51:39

asking just the absolute best questions like you're a fickle nominal host. This is this is so easy. Okay, so the other day, I'm having a conversation with one of my brothers, who lives down in the States. And we're talking about some relationship issues that, that we're having, well, that that he's having. And so we've given each other permission to be pretty blunt about some things. But at the same time, I have to realize that say, for example, inside the gym, one of the things that I've that I love doing is agility work, like I love doing plyometric style stuff. So say, for example, box jumps. And I like I can get up there pretty good with Box Jumps. But should I expect that anybody coming to workout with me, because I tell them how it's done should be able to do it. Like, that's insane. It's like some guy who can put four plates on the bar and do a deadlift, I can't do that. I've never been able to do that. So just because he tells me how he does it. Should that mean that I can do it? No, we all have different strengths and weaknesses. So when I have a conversation with him, and he's, and we're getting, we're going back and forth, it's like, Okay, here's what I found works for me when I've been in a similar position as you, I don't know if it's going to work for you, especially when it comes to relationship stuff. Because I tell guys all the time, I have, I have a serious handicap over other men when it comes to Jenny Lee, because Jenny Lee and I have a level of communication that is unlike anything I've ever experienced in my life, and based on what other men have told me is something like that they don't have but this is something that we cultivated over years, years, years, years, years, years, to the point where something as small as Jenny Lee and I will never ever, ever say, You made me feel this because now you are placing responsibility for your feelings onto the other individual. The language we use in language is so important. The language uses. You know what, when you did this or said this, it triggered this in me. Can we talk about this? So you're accepting responsibility? So the conversation I'm having with my brothers like, Okay, well, when your wife said this, well, how did you respond? And how did you take that? And not only that, this is the thing that I love. And I am so guilty of this, too. If we're complaining about something that our partner does, I said to him, Listen, is this the first time that she did? He's like, no, she does this all the time. Okay, if you were going home from the gym, pass the fast food, fast food joint. And you were stopping there because you said you learned it, and yet you're sabotaging results? Are you gonna keep driving that same route? Are you going to take a different route so that you don't pass that same troublespot? Like, okay, we'll take a different route. So why do you keep taking the same route with your wife? When it comes to communication, you're gonna have to figure out something different because guess what, you're never going to change her. You're never going to change her. You can influence something with your own behavior, but you have to work on what you can control. So can you control the way that you react and respond with your partner? Yes, so put 90% of your attention there and then tempers 10% of time you can you can be a jerk like I am but but you So that's, again, I don't even know if that's your question. No,

Philip Pape: 55:04

you are and that and that's like the heart of stoicism and like personal responsibility even, I always come back to fitness analogies. You know, I tell people that we can't control what our bodies do. But we can control all the inputs and let our bodies react to those. Same thing, we can't control other people, we can control what we do. So you're right, if if the same things happening over and over again, then look to yourself perhaps and see if you can change. Always great advice. Are there any books you'd recommend for men who want to become better men? There's there's your workbook too. But you know, man

Carl Berryman: 55:37

cave. So, again, a brilliant question. Honestly, and I'm not saying this just a plug it just when I've thought about what the legacy is that I want to leave behind, and anytime I have conversations with some of my brothers, and they just want some advice on something, or they want my opinion, the first thing I do is just say, You know what, just start journaling. You don't even have to get the journal like, I'll give you a link that people can get to download the free like blueprint for it. So you have the four questions, and you know how it works. But the reason why I say this is because this is getting you to come up with your own answers. It's not me telling you what to do. It's not, it's not any guru telling you what to do. It's not Phil telling you what to do. It's you taking something that they said, and coming up with your own answer, because nobody knows you, like you know you. So the more you know you the more knowledge you have about yourself. And the more you're putting that to action, the better it's going to be, which is what this is all about. But in terms of other books, first and foremost, the Way of the Superior Man, The Way of the Superior Man by David, I believe his name is, the last thing might be pronounced data or data, the chapters are super short, and they are filled with unbelievable wisdom. So the way the Superior Man would be number one, or a tie for number one, because the other one would be The War of Art. And that one is by Steven Pressfield. That one has to do with dealing with your own inner resistance. Because if you can get to know what resistance is inside of you, and relinquish that resistance, now all of a sudden, all the potential that was there is free to come out. So those would be those would be the top two, for sure. And then anything by Don Miguel Ruiz says he has the Four Agreements, which is good. The not the voice of knowledge is a huge one. And then the mastery of love. The mastery of love is a huge one too. And they're all the best thing about those books. They're super short. They're super short and super easy to digest.

Philip Pape: 57:29

All right, love it. Yeah, that's an awesome list. Thank you for sharing, I'm gonna look into those man. And all those, I remember, include them in the show notes, you know how it is with show notes. You gotta get cram it all in there. But people have to listen to the podcast is to hear this. Alright, so this is the penultimate question I like to ask. And that is, what one question Did you wish I had asked? And what is your answer?

Carl Berryman: 57:51

Oh, wow. See if I'm pausing. That's good, because it means that you've, you've asked so many amazing questions, I'm going to dial back and see if I can come up with something that has to do with men's emotional health and fitness. Actually, question that you would that I wish you would have asked? Here's one, and I don't know how I'm going to answer it. What is the thing that I personally struggle with the most that I wish I didn't struggle with? That I'm embarrassed that I struggle with? So for you to ask that question, that would be a ballsy question to ask me. But I'm going to put it out there. So the thing that I struggle with the most that I wish I did struggle with, then I'm embarrassed that I struggle with, um, man is, I don't know if you're gonna have to edit this out or not. But we'll record it. And then if you need to edit it out, go ahead and edit it out. But it actually has to do with the extinction protocol, because I did another mental muscle up because I really liked that. And I wanted to see where else I can use it. For me, when I feel my lowest when I'm really depressed. I turn to porn. And like, it's, it's actually I'm holding back tears right now, because I realize how much that's costing me like it definitely doesn't happen nearly as much as it used to because I have strategies in place to better manage my depression, but it still happens every once in a while and when it does, I'm there and I'm like Carla, like why are you doing this? You know what this is costing you like this is costing you so much mental and emotional energy. This is costing you connection with Jenny Lee, this is you are going to feel so much worse after this. Why are you doing this? And yet sometimes that voice inside me I just I still can't so that's another thing that I actually did a bit with the extinction protocol is that's another thing I'm getting rid of. I'm absolutely 100% Getting rid of porn in my life because I realize the standards it's setting With regards to intimacy and how just toxifying it is, and I know as a man, I am not alone there, I just know we're not talking about it. So that would be what I struggle with the most sentiment bears that I struggle with. That is still a work in progress, but has massively shifted in my life since I've recognized that, but at the same time, the next level up now is for it to be non existent. So I will be using the extinction protocol for that. And just, if you don't mind, I just really want to read what the extinction protocol is so that people know what I'm talking about. It's from Episode 30 of your episode. But the extinction protocol is the brain recognizing that is a craving you never, you never want to get into. And it stops the craving, we don't crave things that we that we're never going to have. So whether that's food, whether that's porn, whether it's whatever, those are things, I'm just never going to have fast food is never going to be it. And if you think about it, porn is really the fast food of emotional sedation. So that's what I would. That's a question that there's no way you would have ever asked.

Philip Pape: 1:01:12

And I'm not, I won't edit that out if you don't want because I think men need to hear that. And I think, no, I just No, no, no, it's totally valid topic. We don't talk about it enough. And people can hear that. And it's probably going to resonate with a lot of men. And if it also makes me hold you accountable, knowing that it's out there, I don't know, for

Carl Berryman: 1:01:32

you sit on now that you said that it's gonna be top of mind. And that's beautiful. I love that because that is the other reason I start actually, the one of the main reasons I became a personal trainer was because I needed that accountability like you. You can't, to me, yes, there are trainers out there who can't may not necessarily look the part, it doesn't mean that they don't have value to offer. I'm not saying that. I'm just saying given my own personal values, which are not better than anybody else's. I knew that if I really wanted to have integrity as a trainer, I need to look and act the parts. Yeah. And there's just, there's no better accountability than having to show up and teach a class and be able to do the things you're asking people to do. Yes. So who said that when this is out there? Okay. Hopefully the system I have in place works and we can extinct that extinct, extinguished that stuff forever. So

Philip Pape: 1:02:27

well. And you were the episode you were referring to, I think was Dr. Glen Livingston, right? And He even talks about like we do we strive for perfection, you're not always going to get there. So even though you know, like, you put it out there, you're going to do it, you're going to put in your system. And what happens happens. And I'm not saying that you have leeway to fail on that to yourself, but you know, it may or may not, whatever, that's reality. Now you're going to you know, you're going to do your best and you're you're taking action to make it happen, which is cool. Yes, exactly. Yeah. Nice, man. Well, we're can listeners learn more about you and your work and maybe download the workbook you talked about at Ignite the impact

Carl Berryman: 1:03:01

on Instagram, for sure. And then all shoot you a link for the download for the blueprint. Because starting the mental muscle up like after listening to this episode, there's so many things that were shared between us that I know are going to be revelations, but don't let them stop there. Like the mental muscle uptakes you can do it in like 10 minutes is how long it takes me in the mornings when I'm writing it out. And it's so simple to make sure that you're taking action on that. So that would be it. And then if there were one episode of inspired by impact I would recommend everybody listen to it'd be number 2424 kind of goes over the core four cornerstones on whether it's your body want to transform whether you're battling depression like I was, and still am, whether it's lack of intimacy and poor communication, your relationship, whether it's finding your sense of purpose and figuring out what it takes to be fulfilled. That episode gives you the foundation to tackle all of that. So episode number 24, for sure.

Philip Pape: 1:04:00

All right at Ignite the impact the mental muscle up in Episode 24, I will definitely throw those in the show notes. So the listeners can find all this amazing material and hopefully they'll have to listen to this episode a couple of times and then it also good, Carl, this has been super unique conversation. I think this is pretty good chemistry. You know, I really enjoyed back and forth. And you've opened my eyes a lot you gave me a lot to think about and listeners as well. So I'm honored that you came on the show.

Carl Berryman: 1:04:27

Thank you very much and feel for you man like since I've already taken done to muscle ups based on your episode like I always say like we're here to ignite the impact we wish to see in our world. And you're definitely igniting an impact in mine, especially with this episode. So thanks very much for having me, but

Philip Pape: 1:04:45

I appreciate that. That's so great to hear. Love to hear. All right, take it easy, man. Thanks for listening to the show. Before you go, I have a quick favor to ask. If you enjoy the podcast, let me know by leaving a five star review in Apple podcasts. I'm telling others about the show. Thanks again for joining me Philip Pape in this episode of Wits & Weights. I'll see you next time and stay strong.