Crushing Body Composition & Fitness Goals

Speaker 1 0:00

I'm going to be very careful to say that something has to be done all the time , because I don't know everything about everything . What I'm saying for me is , if I don't track , whatever it is , i'm not going to get the results I want . That's what my experience has taught me . If I am not tracking , i am working with my eyes closed . I don't know where I'm going .

Speaker 2 0:18

Welcome to the Whits and Weights podcast . I'm your host , philip Pate , and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger , optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition . We'll uncover science backed strategies for movement , metabolism , muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry So you can look and feel your absolute best . Let's dive right in Whits and Weights community . Welcome to another episode of the Whits and Weights podcast .

Speaker 2 0:48

Today is a very special day because I have on the show someone I would consider a friend , a peer , a mentor , a brother and one of the few men in my life who pushed me to be a better man , the one and only Carl Berryman of the Inspired by Impact podcast . I invited him on or he invited himself , or we mutually agreed to have him on to talk about the health and fitness side of his personal journey to build muscle , to get strong , to fill out his sleeves , not only to become a better man but a bigger man in the literal sense . And we're going to dig into some of the methods the methods , but also , more importantly , the principles of what it takes to crush your body composition and fitness goals , and many other topics to be revealed soon . Yep , so Carl and I met . So we met when we did a podcast swap . This was probably , i want to say , six months ago or so , and you can find his first interview on episode 47 of Whits and Weights , or my interview on his show Inspired by Impact , a podcast for men , episode 37 , that came out around January . So stop right now , follow Inspired by Impact in your podcast app and then keep listening .

Speaker 2 2:00

Back then I had no idea we would develop such a close relationship like we have And we continue to bounce ideas off each other , we spiral what we're doing , our impact , our work , and yeah , i do know that would happen , but we really pushed each other . So check out 47 for my original intro of Carl . He doesn't really need an introduction for today . So today I thought it would be fun to have a more organic conversation , because Carl is the type of man who is an expert at peeling back the onion , the mental onion , the layers . He gets to the core , but beyond that , he goes into a completely different dimension of reality and that's where he excels in I hope we get to today . So , carl , my brother , this is going to be a fun one for us and the listeners as we were talking before pushing go . So thanks for making another appearance on the show man Amen .

Speaker 1 2:46

Like I said before we even hit record , i was I've been looking forward to this all week and like it's funny because I take for granted the fact that I've got so many amazing people that I've met through the podcast .

Speaker 1 2:59

And it's funny because I mentioned one of my podcast episodes recently that if you want to really build amazing relationships with people , start a podcast because you get such amazing depth of conversations . But , like you , i had no idea it was going to go like this . Like I'm not I'm not shy to reveal some vulnerable stuff with men in my life And I'm very fortunate where I have , i'm going to say , like six or seven men where we can go really deep on stuff that people don't normally talk about . I had no idea you were going to be at the top of that list , like you , and I communicate with you more than just about any other man now , going back and forth like just running these ideas off each other and constantly giving each other spots and helping each other get stronger . And man like my , my life , in so many different ways , has has been leveled up as a result of our relationship . So I'm honored to be here , man .

Speaker 2 3:50

It is , it's mutual , and I think we get that energy from each other And I wouldn't have called myself the type of guy who is super open about my emotions . It wasn't that I was reserved about it , but just you pushing me to do that . I am a man of action . So when I have this guy like you come in who says you know , we need to be vulnerable , we need to talk about this stuff , this stuff's important And I hadn't really heard that message , all of a sudden It's OK , let me take action . That's important And I understand that it is . Let me go after it .

Relationship and Personal Development Principles

Speaker 2 4:17

And then your comment about podcasting for relationships . Oh , i mean , we can't stress that enough , carl . Like , even if you're not in a business , if you don't have a business , just start it for a hobby . Yeah , all of a sudden it's like . It's like dating or meeting friends . It's very hard to do like in the real world , but with podcasts you're kind of forced into that in a way .

Speaker 1 4:36

Yeah , yeah , yeah , you are .

Speaker 2 4:38

And you all of a sudden build this huge network and they're like minded people . Like minded in terms of not necessarily you agree on everything , but your your passion for life and your passion for asking questions and having conversations . So you , you've enlightened me , but you've also introduced me to people like Darlene Marshall , who I just recorded this week , who's making me rethink just my philosophy . You know my values . So , yeah , Yeah , anyway , Carl , right now , just to ground listeners that you want to interrupt . Yeah , I do . You better get used to this .

Speaker 1 5:10

Well , i'm sure it's fine And I just I want to go back to something that you mentioned there , because you talked about how I kind of opened your eyes with regards to the vulnerability and the sharing and stuff like that . One thing I'm really starting to entertain more from a from an idea , and it's just I I do that too much , like I do it too much to the point where there needs to be more action . So I look at you , a guy who's all about action . It's like , hey , i need to take more action . You're looking at me , seeing a guy who's really vulnerable , and saying I need to do this .

Speaker 1 5:43

While I'm not going to say either of us is right or wrong , we need to try on what fits for us and make sure that we know where that destination is , that we're going and seeing if we're actually getting there . Because I take a look at like , yeah , i do a ton of journaling , i do a ton of meditation , everything like that , but at the end of the day , is it taking me closer to where I want to go ? If the answer is no , then maybe I need a little bit more action . If the answer is no , when I'm doing a ton of action . Maybe there is a little bit more introspection . I need to do So .

Speaker 1 6:08

There's definitely no right or wrong , and I love that we are , for lack of a bit of expression , kind of a yin and a yang where , like , i'm feeding off of that energy that you put out from an action oriented standpoint and then you can kind of feed off the peeling back the layers of the onion to get to the core of things . For me , so neither is better or worse than the other . We need to figure out what works for us and then , if action is that thing that works for you and it needs to be like an 80 20 split , do that . If introspection works for you and it needs to be 80 in terms of introspection , so you can make sure you have a hyper laser focus 20 percent that gets you to where you want to go , then that works for you . But it's it's . It's no different than what we're doing with our meal plans , what we're doing with our workouts , like really trying on what might fit for you , giving it time to see if it actually does , and then running with it .

Speaker 2 6:53

Yeah , And this , this reminds because we're going to get into principles and methods called what works for you is is not just lip service , It's not just a buzzword , right ? Because I just this morning there was a Q&A on one of the podcasts I listened to And the question was if I don't like tracking , why should I track ? Because I know we're going to get into that a little bit . And and he said well , you don't have to . He said for some people it reduces decision fatigue and there's other reasons for it , And I was . But beyond that , then he talked about how the things that work for him as a host in the past to solve problems give him the experience and lens and maybe bias to apply to other people and what might work for them And that might not work for that individual , right ? So this is the difference between principles and principles and methods I think we wanted to get into . Maybe we could just dive into it right now .

Speaker 1 7:41

Yeah , absolutely , because that's that quote . I can't remember who said it , but the quote with regards to the man who focuses on principles Oh my gosh . Yeah , like , oh my gosh wait a minute .

Speaker 2 7:53

wait a minute . We're on the same wavelength . So Carl doesn't know my notes here . Carl doesn't know my notes , but I have it . Is it the one by Mr ?

Speaker 1 7:59

Ralph Waldo .

Speaker 2 8:00

Yes , it's Miss , tributed to Ralph Waldo Emerson . Ok , it's actually said by Harrington Emerson . He was a business theorist . Yes , he was like a pioneer of scientific management , which , for people listening , actually that's kind of ties into my career as an engineer . Scientific management is just how do we do things in a data driven way . You could take that to extremes when it comes to people and you talk capitalism . You know labor versus capital . Anyway , he said , quote as to methods , there may be a million and then some Principles are few . The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods . The man who tries methods ignoring principles is sure to have trouble .

Speaker 1 8:37

Yeah , that one . I used to have that on my fridge and it is Yes , principles , go ahead , kick this one off .

Speaker 2 8:44

No , no , i mean . so on this show we talk a lot about nuts and bolts things , and actually you've encouraged me to also keep exploring the behavior change and mindset part of this , which is extremely important . But just take energy balance , for example right The relationships between the calories you consume and the calories you expend , and to gain weight , which is something you're trying to do right now .

Speaker 1 9:07

to build an muscle , right , trying to do in a circle . You're trying to do it right , you're doing it .

Speaker 2 9:11

You're doing it right . Oh man , we can get into the definition of try and Yoda and all that , But anyway , yes , you know , taking action is trying , isn't it , My man ? Yeah , yeah , okay . So so you have to eat more than you burn , and it sounds simple , right , but then we get into how do you do that and how does your body respond and what are the methods for that ? So one method is to count calories . Right , that's a method , counting calories , or tracking food , or whatever Others would be using a meal plan , using portion sizes , measuring your food , but not tracking it .

Speaker 2 9:47

estimating based on labels , estimating what you see , or just intuitively eating based on experience and hunger signals . Right , right , right . So my approach with clients , which you know when Carl and I were first talking about coaching and things like that , he's like I don't want to do this and we're going to get into it . Like , my approach is used tracking , because to me it was a quick way to get awareness and precision for a lot of people who I deal with , who've never had good understanding of their hunger signals or what they're consuming

Tracking and Enjoyment in Muscle Building

Speaker 2 10:17

. So tell us about your view on that specifically And then we can branch off from there .

Speaker 1 10:23

My view on that specifically is that if it works for you and it's taking you to where you want to go and it's something you can sustain , like , stick with it . Like , why not ? The other view that I would have on it to oppose myself because I'll play both sides of the fence here is that if you're not getting to where you want to go based on what you're doing , then you'd be insane not to try something else , regardless of how much you hate it . Like , because just the fact that you hate it , if you then start getting results as like , if you start making the progress you want as a result of doing the thing that you used to hate , guess what You're not going to hate it anymore . Yes , You're going to like it . You're going to like it because all of a sudden , it starts to work .

Speaker 1 11:00

Now , for me this is how I would phrase it I haven't taken the time to develop a better relationship with tracking , like calorie tracking , because the stories that I play in my head with regards to doing that stuff , like I remember like there was a few days there . I only did it for like three days . There was a , but like one of those days specifically , i remember I'd go in there and since I'm eating the same thing , it was super easy to track right . But then , like I think about when I make my shakes , i think about when I make my pierogi casserole , like I'm trying to like to try to just do the math on that , like cooking is something that I use as a relaxation outlet , like it's downtime for me where I can just shut off , not be thinking about my podcast , not be thinking about spirituality and all the stuff . So for me to then take something that feels like work and put it into a space that I go specifically to not work , that's where the relationship kind of came to a head . So I'm like , ok , well , if I'm not tracking via an app or something like this , i at least need to be doing something , and it's .

Speaker 1 12:01

It's really interesting for me What I because , like I shot up weight pretty quickly , which was really really surprising for me , and like I've had lots of people mention that they , they notice the differences , yeah , yeah , for my ego is that that's nice to pump my tires . But I noticed for me that I , like you said , i always want to unpeel the onion and get to the core . So it's like , ok , my , i've hit a plateau . What does that mean ? Does it mean I'm not eating enough calories ? Probably OK . Ok , so then why am I not eating enough calories ? Let's peel another layer , ok ? well , i'm not eating enough calories because when I go to the fridge , i don't want to take time to prep stuff . Ok , so if I don't want to take time to prep stuff , what do I need to do ? I need to have stuff prepped in advance .

Speaker 1 12:45

So for right now , what I actually track is food prep . I don't track my calories , like I know the portion size I'm going for . But if I get food prep done three times a week or more , i don't have to worry about calorie intake because the food is there , and not only there , but it needs to be delicious . So last night I'm like man , i don't feel like eating . I'm not hungry , but I have to . I'm going on the show tomorrow . I've got to be nice and bulk for for Philip here . So I'm like , ok , what's going to be quick , what's going to be easy , tarkos . So I was like , okay , that's gonna be quick done and I get my calories in . So really taking the time to figure out why I haven't been doing what I know I need to do has helped me figure out how to do things as simply as possible . So the principles how do you make mistakes hard to make ? That was the question I had to answer . How do you make mistakes hard to make ?

Speaker 2 13:37

Yeah . So what you're telling me , then is , through this process , you're gathering data of some kind . It's not the same data that I would have a new client do , because there's a system I have and that's kind of a reliable way to dive into it right from the bat because I have a tool for it . But you also have a tool and it's take the output , which , in your case , is you didn't gain weight , which we can get into that like that , and how you calculate that accurately , and so on . Yeah , you took that output , said it's not where I need to be , i need to push it higher . You already have this reliable or consistent way of eating and now you know there's a delta to that you need to make , whether it's via prep or the content or the quantity or what have you , and then you make it . So it really does sound to me like you're tracking with a different tool , effectively Tracking something you're tracking , information Tracking .

Speaker 1 14:27

Still , it has to be done , it has to be done . That's something that I would .

Speaker 2 14:32

Yeah , that's the principle , right .

Speaker 1 14:34

It's the principle I'm never going to say . actually , i'm going to be very careful to say that something has to be done all the time , because I don't know everything about everything . What I'm saying for me is , if I don't track , whatever it is , i'm not going to get the results I want . That's what my experience has taught me . If I am not tracking , i am working with my eyes closed , and if I'm working with my eyes closed , i don't know where I'm going and I'm not going to get there .

Speaker 2 14:58

Yeah , and you said to get the results you want . So your result right now isn't wellness , it's gaining muscle . Like , let's be honest , you might have other micro roles and problems you're trying to solve . Yes .

Speaker 1 15:09

But I switched back to eating . Like I got off of my plant-based diet because I know right now the goal is to put on lean muscle And in order to do that , like I was just getting so tired of beans and lentils and tofu which I still eat , for sure , i still eat but as soon as I started adding chicken and dairy and ground beef and ground turkey back in there , that's when I started to get excited about eating again . I'm like man , i miss this stuff .

Speaker 2 15:39

All right , So you're just saying just from a psychological standpoint and enjoyment standpoint you were getting fatigue .

Speaker 1 15:45

Huge factor that people completely downplay is how much are you going to enjoy the thing that you need to do to get you where to want to go ? Because if you don't enjoy it as soon as you can stop , you're going to stop .

Speaker 2 15:55

Agreed , yeah , and we talk about sustainability , which again is another buzzword that gets thrown around , sometimes lightly , and what you're telling me is that even during a muscle building phase , which we know can last a long time , it can last six , nine or more months . It's not a short-term process . So you have to make it enjoyable but also not make so many tradeoffs that you don't get your results . That's the thing . Yes , you're not living at maintenance , you're trying to push your weight And what's happening is I sent you those graphs by Techs yesterday of my personal . Last time I did a building phase , my expenditure went up by about 600 calories over six months , which is actually pretty typical for my size , and then , which is about 25 calories a week , that I would have to increase my daily intake to keep up with that , which 25 calories isn't a lot , but it adds up over time .

Speaker 1 16:43

Yeah , it's like anything , if you're going to do bench press , when you start from one end and then you start making your gains and all of a sudden you get to that point where it's really heavy . Now you've got to start going up by like five pounds instead of 20 pounds , or even two and a half pounds for some less instead of yeah , So it gets tough , Trust me , I know .

Speaker 1 17:03

Now force feeding myself is . I'm looking for ways , not looking for ways around it . I'm getting very , very strategic about how and when to force feed myself .

Speaker 2 17:18

So do you see it as force feeding ?

Speaker 1 17:21

I want to get into that , okay So language is really important , so I'm really glad you brought that up . I actually I don't see it as force feeding . I see it as eating when I'm not hungry in order to get to where I want to go . So this is a part of the process . It's no different than me . So today at bench I was super pumped about it . I want to make sure this happened today .

Speaker 1 17:39

So for the longest time I was stuck on 185 , right For bench , i do it , i do it five . And when I was doing it by myself I didn't even try a sixth time , even though I made sure I did them in the squat racks . I was just scared . Okay , a couple of weeks ago I got a buddy to come help me with 190 . We get 190 times up five . Next week I do 195 and we get that up five .

Speaker 1 17:58

The fifth one was really hard . So today I tried something different where sets one , two and three I didn't go all out or sets one and two , because I do three sets , sets one and two I didn't . So got up to 205 and like four was I'm not going to say easy , it was very manageable 195 , the second set that I did for four , super manageable like super manageable , because I changed my mindset around what heavy was . So with regards to force feeding , it's not going to be force feeding , it's like no , this is me just feeding my muscles and being the person and the man that I say I want to be . That's what this is . So I'm going to choose to entertain that story as opposed to it being a painful story .

Speaker 2 18:38

Yeah , and I think that's important for people listening , because there are different types of coaches out there , right , there's some that focus on wellness and health , there's some that focus on longevity , others that focus on performance and some that focus on aesthetics right , and these are all different goals And what you're going after here is , ultimately , it's going to be an aesthetics goal once you lean out , but you're really aiming for performance right now And , like you just said , trying to get , push your lifts and eat to a fuel and perform .

Building Muscle for Longevity and Performance

Speaker 2 19:05

It's okay to do that . Like the fact that you don't feel hungry is your body telling you . This is a slightly unnatural state you're in physiologically . You're pushing yourself away from homeostasis . Same thing . On the other end , we have hunger . I get questions all the time like how do I avoid hunger during fat loss ? The answer is you can't . You don't , you can't avoid it .

Speaker 2 19:24

And you don't want to be playing tricks , but you can make it manageable , you can learn about hunger , you can learn what hunger means and separate physical from physiological hunger , and so on . So , yeah , yeah , man , so let's see , tell us , so tell the listener , what you're actually trying to do and where you came from before , because I understand that you maybe in the past struggled with gaining weight or the thought of gaining weight , or you did you kind of quit too early in the process . Tell us about that .

Speaker 1 19:53

I struggled with the commitment to put on weight . That's just all there is to it . I gave up way too soon . So ever since I'm 43 now , ever since I was man , I don't know 10 , I've wanted to be one of those bigger guys because , like my older brother would have the muscle and fitness magazines he'd have the benches at home with , like the brown plates with the sand in them , whatever .

Speaker 1 20:14

And so I've been working on it . I always wanted to be like I want to be big and jacked , and then I guess around . Probably I'm going to say 35 . So not all that long ago , relatively speaking . I kind of I gave up on that and I'm like you know what , rick ? what you got Carl , like you're a lean guy , you're super agile , you're fast , like let's just , let's dive into that and do the best you can with that .

Speaker 1 20:36

So back in 2021 , early 21 , i made a really radical transformation . I didn't lose very much overall weight at all . My body fat percentage only went down by 3% from 15 to 12 and I went from like 151 to 148 . And I looked jacked , like I looked , i looked great . And then fast forward a couple of years and my regular weight is around like 139 to 141 .

Speaker 1 21:04

And I remember Jenny Lee had talked about pictures that I , when we first started dating like 10 years ago , that I would send to her and I looked bulkier , like I looked . I looked good , but I was . There was a lot more mass on me . I'm like man . I want to get back to that . But every single time I would go on a bulk and I couldn't see my six pack . I was like forget it , yeah , forget it . Like I'm , i'm not doing this because I want to see my six pack , completely forgetting one of the main principles I preach all the time , which is half of getting what you want , is knowing what you have to give up to get it .

Speaker 1 21:34

And for me , i've like right now , sure , if I flex hard enough , i can see my six pack , but I'm not .

Speaker 1 21:42

I'm just not about that right now , because the reason why I want to put , the reason why I wanted to put on muscle mass before it was for aesthetics , the reason why I want to do it now , is because I'm realizing and I've learned this from you , philip just how proportionate longevity and performance in later years is with the amount of muscle you have on your body and the quality of that muscle .

Speaker 1 22:03

So it's like , hey , this is only going to keep getting harder for me to put on muscle . So , if there's any time , regardless what age you are , the time is now . So I need to put this muscle on now . I need to get up and get as heavy from a muscle standpoint as I possibly can right now and just stay 100% dedicated to that . Because , yeah , i'm a lean guy . I imagine it's probably not going to be that difficult for me to shed some stuff if I want to , but more importantly , like I want to be that personal trainer in my seventies who is school in the punks like just schooling them in every category like , like walking up to the bar and doing three plates for a warmup , i want to be the guy who's doing box jumps .

Speaker 1 22:45

That's still up to my shoulders . Like , i want to be that guy and that's never going to happen if I'm not willing to make this very short term sacrifice . Like think 12 months may sound to a lot of sound long to a lot of people , but if I've been trying to do this really since I was 16 , if I'm being honest , we're going almost 30 years there . So 12 months compared to 30 years , that's pretty short .

Speaker 2 23:09

Yeah , yeah . And there are several principles in there that the listener should understand We do cover it on the podcast a lot , but in case they haven't heard about it And one is the longevity and health that comes from having lean mass . It really is the crux of so much of if you think of the opposite of what happens with what happens with most people you get older , you get more frail , you lose significant body mass . I mean , carl's been working out for years , so you've kind of maintained or at least done a little bit of body recomposition over the years I could tell from your physique , right ? Whereas most people just haven't even done that , right , they've been living a sedentary life , myself included , until when I was almost 40 .

Speaker 2 23:52

And at 40 , at 50 , at 60 , i've seen people time and again start to strength train and everything just starts to get better . Yeah , carl , i hear this all the time from clients where we start with like a weight in their mind they need to lose weight , right , they need to lose weight . And I'm like , okay , well , hold on , we're not going to do that just yet , right , we've got to figure some things out first and have some fun with these new tools and processes and habits . Let's have fun with them . We always gamify things , try to have things that we track and whatnot . And I tell you almost to a person , what's my PR becomes like the driving question of the day .

Speaker 1 24:29

Yeah , absolutely , that's such a good feeling It is .

Speaker 2 24:34

And then what'll happen is , maybe after two , three months , we've done all this , they've gotten super strong and we do a fat loss phase Just we got to learn that right . And they're like wow , this is way easier than I thought . Wow , why is my body responding this way ? Wow , wow , wow . And it's like you're lifting heavy , Like it really comes down to that . All this stuff is important , like sleep and stress and stuff , but the big change that you never did before was telling your body muscles important .

Speaker 1 24:59

Yeah . And you think , that you think that's not solely , but you think one of the main driving factors of that is lifting heavy .

Speaker 2 25:08

Yeah , okay . Why lifting heavy ? It is a few reasons . Physiologically , well , it's lifting heavy and progressing , you know progressive overload . So I want to be clear because you can lift , you know higher rep range and still have progressive overload and still develop muscle mass , for sure , okay . But and you've probably learned this yourself , like with deadlifts and things like that , building that base of strength makes working in all the rep ranges easier .

Speaker 1 25:35

Way easier .

Speaker 2 25:36

Yeah , And the heavier you lift and we're talking your 80 , 85% of your max , not maxing out necessarily We're recruits , bigger muscle fibers that normally would stay somewhat dormant , they just would not get recruited . So that's super important , especially if , hey , women , you want a bigger glutes , guys you want , you know , bigger back , like all that stuff . you got to dig deep and lift super heavy to get those . Now , once you've built that base , then you can start having fun . right , You can do the bodybuilding , the power building , the , the endurance stuff , throw all that in there because you've built the base that you can very easily maintain compared to what it took to build it .

Speaker 1 26:10

Yeah , Yeah . One thing I want to add to that too is I was thinking about this today like it's amazing the mindset shift from when I did 185 on the bench today to say even three weeks ago , like 185 would have made me nervous three weeks ago . But now , since I did 195 the previous week , I'm like there's no reason I can't do 185 . And today , like 185 for four . If I were to go all out there and I had a spot , there might have been eight reps there , Like it was . It was not hard . And so where I'm going with that is now .

Speaker 1 26:43

I've conditioned my mind to redefine what is hard for me . So , after I'm done this strength phase and this building phase , however long this is going to be , imagine what's going to happen when I go down and I'm doing higher reps but I'm doing them with a heavier weight now because it's like no , I've done , I've done 225 for bench now and I'm using that for sets of four Now all the time when I'm going to do my eight to 12 , I'm using my 185 . Yes , Because just the mental idea that now this is this is light compared to what I normally do .

Speaker 2 27:15

Yes , Yeah , and it and it translates into all the accessory movements . Like if you go after all these deadlifts like months of progress , then do some rows , just watch how much heavier you are . Yeah .

Speaker 1 27:26

Yeah , yeah .

Overcoming Plateaus and Utilizing Support

Speaker 2 27:27

So what now ? let's turn that around and understand that at some point you may . So you have a weight plateau right now that you're pushing through . Yeah , You may at some point have a lifting plateau , just because the more advanced you get and the stronger you get , the farther in between the PRs come and you're a little bit more sensitive to recovery , to stress and sleep . So if you have just one day where you get six hours of sleep or one day where you do you lift earlier than later , these little variables can make a difference and all of a sudden you may not be able to hit the reps , Yeah , How are you going to handle those situations ?

Speaker 1 28:02

Oh , it's the same way that I handle handle it anywhere else . It's knowing in advance that it's going to happen . Yeah , knowing in advance that it's going to happen and making sure that I have tools in place that are going to enable me to emotionally manage that . Yeah , like , say , for example , squats . Right now I can squat about as much as I bench , because the thing is , with squats , i'm always super concerned about my back , which means I'm just I'm going into it with the wrong mindset . So I'm trying out different variations of the squat . Well , like the back squat , for sure , but in terms of like , when those plateaus come , just knowing in advance , okay , this is exactly what I need , because what this is telling me is that what I did to get where I am is no longer working . So I need to grow in some way , shape or form , in order to get to that next level of me . So that's like I'm really starting .

Speaker 1 29:02

One of the questions that I've really gotten the habit of asking that's kind of annoying actually is when , like , shit hits the fan and things start going wrong . It's like what am I supposed to learn here ? Like , what am I missing ? What do I need to do differently ? And I start really diving down And I say annoying , because there's a part of me that wants to play the victim . But I just see , i give myself a little bit , a little bit of time for that sometimes , but not really . It's like no , okay , you're stuck and you're stuck for a reason . What are you missing ? How can you expand here ? Like this is I hate saying cliche stuff like the whole thing , like look at it as an opportunity . Failure is an opportunity .

Speaker 1 29:41

Yeah yeah , and everything like that . But the reason like cliches are cliches for a reason , right , so there's some truth on them . Sure , yeah , there definitely is . So , yeah , just knowing the platz is okay . I'm stuck , not only what can I do , but who can I ask for help , which is what you and I do all the time , right ? Yeah , it's like who can I ask for help ? Who can give me a spot on this ? Who knows more than I do , which I've got a lot of people who know a hell of a lot more than me . What can I ask them in order to help me get through this ? So , who can I lean on right now ? Who do I need a spot from , like mentally , emotionally , physically , in any way ?

Speaker 2 30:14

shape or form . Don't you find that ? and I totally agree , both wins and struggles reaching out to people , and I want to make , i want to bring up both because , like this morning , you know , a guy said yes , he's going to be in my podcast . I was super excited . I'm like I want to tell everybody .

Speaker 2 30:29

You know like I want to get that validation and support from people who know that I'm trying to do this and that this is a successful outcome of what I did . But similarly with the struggles , if , like you just said , reaching out to your support structure , sometimes information online , google , whatever that's in that you can look that up to try to help , there's nothing like another human being that you connect to who could just raise that up to the next level . Right , you think that ?

Speaker 1 30:54

Oh , 100% Like there's a time and place for both The ladder in terms of reaching out to somebody , because what I'm going to find is I actually , you know Bobby T . I had a really good conversation with him yesterday and he pointed out something to me with regards to my language that if I'm struggling with something and I go and Google it , i might not be asking the right question , because I'm stuck in some type of tunnel vision that this is the problem I need to solve , whereas having a conversation with somebody like you or somebody like Bobby T , what they're going to say is , carl , do you realize what the real problem is here ? Well , miss , here , like it's got nothing to do with what you think . It is Like , did you hear what you just said ?

Speaker 1 31:34

So you've got that outside observer which Google will never like . Friends will always be able to give you answers You can't Google . Yeah , so that's why it's so important to have those people in your life , that that a are willing to step up and say OK , this is what's really going on . Like you're , you're looking , what you're seeing right now is not what's actually going on . So I'm going to first , i'm going to give you the truth here . It's going to hurt , but you know they're doing it with love and compassion in order to help you . So yeah , friends , over Google 10 times out of 10 .

Speaker 2 32:09

Any day until the , until AI gets to that level . No , just kidding , i don't want to get in there , so I want to . I want to rephrase what I just heard you say , right , because I think of it also as challenging the premise of the question . I mean , you're asking a question , i'm struggling with this , how can I fix why X , y , and it's like , well , you're asking , you're asking the wrong question , right ? Yeah , the your channel . Your struggle isn't this , it's this . And I could just give a very practical example that comes to mind . And somebody asked me the other day how do I , how do I do these ? like exercises for some muscle group ? And and I said , well , why are you asking ? Well , because my , my , i can't squat . And I'm like , ok , well , that it's , it's the wrong question , right ?

Speaker 1 32:53

How do I squat properly ? What's wrong with my ?

Speaker 2 32:55

squat . Anyway , that's a very , very high level example , but it's a good one . Hey , this is Philip And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits and Weights . If you're finding value in the content and want to stay up to date with all our latest episodes , be sure to hit the follow button on your favorite podcast platform . By following , you'll get notified whenever a new episode comes out And you won't miss out on knowledge and strategies to level up your health and fitness . All right , let's get back to the episode .

Speaker 2 33:22

Yeah , so then , speaking of your support system , then if you think of just this , this muscle building phase , because I've seen a lot of change in you Mentally , i mean obviously physically I haven't been monitoring your physical numbers .

Speaker 1 33:33

Oh , you haven't gotten the selfies in there . No , no , I have . You know what I mean . You're not like ?

Speaker 2 33:37

submitting check-ins or anything But mentally , how have your brothers in the support system contributed or detracted from ? I know they're not detracting , i hope , but how are they contributing to this process since you started ? Mainly like the guys I have here in Winnipeg .

Speaker 1 33:51

It was just . It was just really nice to they're not shy to give a compliment . So we all went out and we went to this place called Activate , where you do kind of like these skill games , but they're also physical games , right . So there could be climbing , there could be basketball , there could be a lot of climbing , there could be basketball , there could be lasers .

Speaker 1 34:09

Like you're going yeah , yeah , it's awesome . And when we got back I was making burgers for everybody . So I'm in the kitchen and they're like Carl , your arms look jacked And then I was like oh cool , like Jenny Lee tells me that all the time , but that's a biased opinion , right .

Speaker 1 34:25

And so they tell me that stuff and it's like , yeah , ok , it's like it . I see myself every day , so I don't really know the difference . So that's how they support me there . But then also just something as simple as , like Bobby T , for example , ask me how it's going , and this is the one of the things that I really I found I need to shy away from with regards to online communities , because I know online communities are all about , like , one of the main reasons people go there is for accountability , and yet people don't hold each other accountable from my experience . Some do , some don't , and the way you hold people accountable is simply by following up with them , and so I've got brothers in my life who are following up with me with this stuff And just note , like you , i know we're going to be talking about this not just today , but all the time . So it's like , if ever , i feel like not doing the food prep , if And that actually I'm really hoping we can get into that muscle up I did the other day , because this is a perfect transition into it of how you've inspired some change . So inside , like whenever I'm having , while I do it almost seven days a week , but I do my journaling experience right Every morning And so the whole point of it is to , if I'm having a problem , i want to find a solution and I want to be able to take action on it , like today . So problem I wrote down , was I plateau with my weight , which means there's something I need to test , track and manage to get back on track . What is the smallest and simplest adjustments I can make that will have the biggest impact . So , for each area of the prep work for me , this in this case being physical health and fitness , right , i have usually , like I've got a lot of sources I go to for inspiration , but I'll have one book for each . That just is like the Bible for that area . Atomic habits is for physical health and fitness . So the quote I got from there was many people begin the process of changing their habits by focusing on what they want to achieve . This leads us to outcome based habits . The alternative is to build identity based habits . With this approach , we focus on who we wish to become . So really long story short .

Speaker 1 36:30

With this one I decided who I want to become is a success story for Philip , because I don't want to let you down . I don't want , i don't , i don't want to let you down . I want , i want to come on your podcast a year from now and be able to say this is how Philip helped me . I followed his advice in so many different ways , like not just with the nutritional advice , not just with like what weights do and exercise and stuff like that not , but just so much more like just mental and emotional support and love and compassion and everything like that . I want to be the type of person that follows through for my brothers to help my brothers out . So this has to be more . This has to be about more than just me . I don't , i don't want to let you down . As soon as I make it about somebody else , for whatever reason , we have a tendency to stick to the things that we want to do a lot more . So I don't want to let you down .

Speaker 1 37:22

So I did something the other day that I haven't I've been trying to get myself to do for months . I don't know why it's so stupid . It was just making shakes , like prepping shakes . Having those prepped because I know when I'm not hungry they're super calorie dense and I can get them in and it's . It's good If I , if I'm like all of a sudden something comes up and I don't have time for anything , i can bring it with me . So I said , okay , as soon as I'm done this , my one small , specific and simple action was go the grocery store , get what I need , come home and prep before I do anything else , and I did it . So now I've got four more shakes sitting in the fridge . So long story , long story long . Now I don't want to let you down .

Speaker 2 37:56

No , and that's that I'm thinking about that as well , now that you brought it up And I knew we'd learn things on the show and I hope people listening to this take that It's . I think you took the identity based habit and then you and you enhanced it with this asterisk of let's let's make it about somebody else that we care about in our life and and just make it so deep and so driving that any deviation from that means we're letting that person down in addition to ourselves , which is really powerful .

Speaker 1 38:20

Yeah , it's like , rather than it just be . So . The I am statement isn't just the identity thing , isn't it just about who I want to be . It's who I want to be for this person or for this community . Like I , the way that I look at it , i have to be the guy that is leading the way for all the brothers . I have to be . I had the . The only way I can do that is by just living by example , right ? So if I just don't make the shakes or I stay where I am , that's not . That's not me . Cool .

Tracking Daily Progress and Overcoming Plateaus

Speaker 2 38:50

So now let's , let's , let's get into the day to day here , right ? Can you process to achieve that ? because you mentioned the shakes and we talked about tracking and things like that . How do you measure everything going on ? So , besides , besides scale weight , which we talked about on the show and just to recap at least my philosophy is , your daily weight on the scale can fluctuate tremendously , based on fluid and based on inflammation and other factors .

Speaker 2 39:12

for women , based on their cycle , bloating , how many carbs you had , etc . etc . There's like 20 different factors . So it can go up and down and guys that are kind of in our weight range , you can go up and down three , four , even five pounds in a day , depending on what's going on Our weight range . You're giving me a lot of credit there , well yeah , Yeah , yeah , how much are you ? How much are you right now ? I'm still down at like 170 something low , okay .

Speaker 1 39:35

So okay , so you've got 20 something pounds on me .

Speaker 2 39:38

Yeah , it's , it's in the ballpark . We're the same All right , i'm flattered . The interesting thing about human beings is like there's a normal curve right , like most people fall in the similar weight range , similar height range and so on . So you end up getting used to these numbers and kind of making the connections . So where was I going with this Carl Talking about the day to day .

Speaker 2 39:56

Yeah , so like one measure is your weight , but then you have to be careful to use the right aspect about like . so for me it's a 20 day moving average And I use a food logging app to see that . but you can just calculate that . What else are you measuring ? Because I was thinking if you felt like you were interrupted someday and you didn't have the shakes , or you did have the shakes but you didn't feel hungry , or what have you , how do you know ? at the end of the day , you got what you needed to get .

Speaker 1 40:25

So for me , the main thing that I'm measuring right now from a physical I guess a weight standpoint , is I use the Renfo scale , right , so it's got . It gives you everything . Some of the things down there aren't very accurate . I know that the body weight and the lean muscle are accurate . So that's what I'm doing And since man it's been . It's been a couple months now , where before I was only doing it once a week , right , and then you suggested doing it every day And I'm like I don't want to do this every day , but I'll do it because I don't know everything about everything . So I started doing it every day And it was . It got really interesting because what I would notice is the graph . If I were to pull it out . It goes really slow , like this , and then bump and down , and then a little bit higher boom and down . So there's always a dip before and up , but I've noticed like it's very , very , very incremental . But like this , like this straight line right here actually isn't a straight line .

Speaker 1 41:27

It's it's like this , right . So say , for example , this this past weekend , when I was just , oh man , my emotions control the way I eat hardcore . So , and for me , i don't , i don't binge . When I feel like crap emotionally , i do the opposite . I don't eat . I don't eat . Okay So , but since I've been getting on scale every day , which is a problem now when you're trying to get away , so it's just the opposite of what most people have , what they're trying to lose weight and then they overate .

Speaker 2 41:54

Yeah .

Speaker 1 41:55

So , but since I was weighing myself every day , when I hopped on the scale after not eating , I actually had my highest weight .

Speaker 1 42:04

And so and so there's just , there was no rhyme or reason to that , which is why it's so important to have that data . Because when you can go to the data because I don't want to , i don't want to base how like the results I'm getting on , how I feel , because , just like when I used to take the glamour shots , like I take one every week there'd be weeks where it's like , oh , i had a bad work out week , i wasn't eating that good , these are going to look horrible . I compare it to the last week . It's either the same or better . So you need that data there . So for me , the primary one right now yeah , i'm looking at that every day so that I can make sure I'm managing that .

Speaker 1 42:37

But then the bigger one is inside the gym . Like I want my lifts to be going up every single workout in some way shape or form . Like , if I'm doing the same number of reps , was rep number five cleaner than last week ? Am I going up in weight ? Am I getting to six reps instead of five today ? So , just , those are what's most important . And but also , like a third on the list , there is the aesthetic part of it . Right , like I'm just how are my clothes fitting . I've got the one shirt that I the arms are definitely tighter , and that's that was . That was my goal going in . So now I'm going to have to buy a bigger shirt , because I thought it would take me way longer to fit into this shirt , but it's it's . It's tight now , so that that is also important .

Speaker 2 43:19

Okay , so if back enough a bit . So you're going by your lifts . But what if you said you were in a weight stall for about a month now ?

Speaker 1 43:27

Yeah .

Speaker 2 43:28

Okay , so what's going on there ? What's going on there ?

Speaker 1 43:32

is . I haven't been accurately . So I've got my food prep down Okay . So that's good to go And that worked for me to get to me to where I am now . And now I'm at that point where I need to try something different .

Speaker 1 43:45

So , starting next week , i'm going to be tracking something different . So the thing I'm going to start tracking is my shakes plus three , how many ? and by shakes plus three I mean three meals . If I get in my shakes and three meals , i'm making a hypothesis that that is going to help me break through the plateau , because that's going to be that will up my calories . So , but I want to have data on that . So , and for me , when I say my meals , my meals are , i know , even without tracking them , that they are the same , because I've done my food prep and I'm only eating out once a week , the only option I have is to eat what I've prepped . So those meals are done in advance . So it's not like , oh no , i am eating three more meals , but I went out here and I went out here and there's no variation in what I eat . I eat the same three things every single day , every single day .

Speaker 2 44:34

Yeah , and that's important . The routine is important . So for folks listening and here's the thing , having that routine for some people would drive them crazy .

Speaker 1 44:42

Right For me it's super easy , don't get me wrong , though . Like it's not every single day for months , like the whole it shifts right , something I enjoy ? Yeah , like , so the menu will shift . So , like , spaghetti is on the menu , pierogi casserole is on the menu this week and tacos are on the menu , and then I've got my breakfast burrito , and so anyways .

Speaker 2 45:01

So I'm so hesitant to like want to challenge you , carl , here .

Speaker 1 45:05

Oh , no , isn't that the point of this conversation ?

Speaker 2 45:09

That is the host , yeah , and it's going back to the tracking thing I'm like I hear all these ways , hold on , but before you say this , why are you challenging me ?

Speaker 1 45:16

What is your intent ?

Speaker 2 45:18

Okay , my intent is to have you think of all the different perspectives of why , or why not , you're using specific tools so that you get more precision and progress .

Speaker 1 45:29

Okay , so you were looking out for me by challenging . Oh , there you go . All right , i'll take where you go with this , so I should be inviting this , and that's . that's one of the things I was really looking forward to here . I know I'm in a plateau . I know Philip's going to challenge something I have . In other words , he's going to cause me to step outside my box , which is only going to lead me to where I want to go . So challenge me all you want .

Speaker 2 45:49

So , just going back to the tracking thing , because I hear , i hear all . I don't want to call them rationalizations , i want to call them they could be their techniques . You're trying to come up with and be clever and think and solutions to the problem of why is the weight stalled , knowing that you need more calories , like , just break it down , very simply , anymore calories , without actually measuring the calories . Right , you're indirectly , as with proxy measures , measuring the calories . And if you were eating like a robot and literally the exact same thing every day for months on end , like bodybuilders do , i could see that . That almost having a meal plan which is its own box for some people , right , yeah , meal plan , that I could see you making the progress . But then I hear that what you're doing right now isn't working right . So then I go back to tracking . I'm like what is the real problem you have with tracking ? One of the problems you said was you don't like the stacking that on top of something that's relaxing , which is prepping your food or cooking .

Speaker 2 46:44

Correct . And then I might ask well , is there a different way you can track that doesn't do that , Like tracking it afterward , like tracking it an hour later as part of your journaling or documentation , or looking at your other numbers or what have you ? you know , it could be taking a picture in the moment of what you eat and then later on tracking it separate from that activity . Just just one little thing that came to mind . Is that the only problem , or are there other things about tracking that are just not going to work for you ?

Speaker 1 47:11

No that I don't know if that's the only problem , but that already starts to make sense . Like what if I ? just if the problem is for me doing it while I'm doing something that I'm supposed to enjoy , why don't I have a specific time for doing these things ? then Like , why don't I do it another time ? So my cooking's done ? But then it's like , hey , maybe when I've got some downtime I go back , i grab all the boxes , i grab the labels and I figure shit out . So like that makes sense to me . So that's something that I'd be willing to try . Now to answer your question is there anything else that is stopping me from doing it ?

Speaker 2 47:50

Like if you did that , if you hypothetically put yourself in that position of , okay , i'm going to do it later And maybe there's an easy way to do that without even having to grab all the boxes . It could be like what I do when I go to a restaurant I just put in the basic common foods into the app and ballpark it , and that's actually that actually results in a more accurate number than not doing . It is what the science shows and what kind of experience tends to show . Even if you're within 30% plus or minus , it tends to average out and at least gives you a box where you can up it each week , knowing that you have that target .

Speaker 1 48:23

So there's a story playing in my head that I'd be willing to investigate and see if it's not accurate . I just there's something about me that is very resistant to making eating . It almost doesn't even make sense . Trying to say it out loud , i'm not quite sure . So yeah , i'm trying to .

Speaker 2 48:46

I'm not trying to make it eating a cold , like data driven thing . Yeah , like I can do it Because it's a human experience .

Speaker 1 48:54

Yeah , i can do it inside the gym , so I'm not sure . the question I'm going to have to ask myself is how do I still keep this as much of an enjoyable human experience while still getting accurate on the data Like that's a question I need to ask myself . It's a fair question .

Mind-Muscle Connection and Relaxation in Fitness

Speaker 2 49:10

When you look at the analogies . So you mentioned the gym . Being on your kind of your advocate here , the gym , going to a gym and lifting weights is not really a natural human experience . We've created these boxes with these bars and plates and plates and like in real life quote , unquote , real life our ancestors would have just lived their lives and picked up you know heavy stuff and yeah , and they wouldn't have gotten as jacked as we're trying to get . Let's be honest , it'd be somewhere in the world .

Speaker 1 49:34

Yeah , there's so far less than us .

Speaker 2 49:37

You look at , you know , hunter , gatherer tribes would have you . And then another energy analogy I often use is banking , and you could argue that also is an artificial construct of like having money and having budgets and stuff , and it's so . We need to treat it that way . So I get all that . I get all that . But I also go back to you wanting to build muscle efficiently , effectively , to get to this goal . What's the best way we can do that ? What are the best tools for it ? And you also said doing something you don't like . You could eventually either like it or at least not notice it if it's part of your routine , right .

Speaker 1 50:06

But okay , so you were going back to what we said earlier in conversation . And the other thing I'm going to challenge myself on is what if I started doing it and all of a sudden I got to my goal way faster than I expected ? Like what if , instead of me saying you know what , I don't like doing this because of this ? What if I said , you know what ? what if this actually gets me to where I want to go faster ? Like that might be able to change ? because really it's my emotional connection to the activity that I need to address . It's not the activity itself , It's my emotional connection in the stories . I'm telling myself about that because there is a way to make it fun .

Speaker 1 50:38

Like I love doing burpees . How like that's insane . That is insane . Why do I love burp ? Yeah , why do I love doing burpees ? Because I have different stories and emotional connections associated with them . So maybe now it's me looking at my stories and my emotional connection . I have to tracking diligently that I need to address And , who knows , it might end up being one of those things where I do it . I'm like I hate to say this , but I should have listened to Phillip .

Speaker 2 51:06

You never know , man , but you'll have information , you'll know . You'll know if you truly just despise this with all your passion and it's just not something for you . And you know there's things like that in our lives . What ?

Speaker 1 51:17

can you say Yes ?

Speaker 2 51:19

You know I still don't like squats . I'll be honest , i'll say it out loud I love deadlifts with back squats , and maybe it's not that I don't like them . I just look forward to them with a little bit of dread every time . Why ? For several reasons . It's . One is the back issues I used to have And I know you mentioned something similar which gets me to be very focused on my form and do things the right way . But the other thing is it's I'm not as strong in the back squat as I would like to be , so it's one of these things .

Speaker 2 51:46

I know I have to do it , to push it , and that's what drives me to do it And I do them . So I'm fine with that , though I'm fine because I know in the moment I'm like why am I doing this , why am I doing this ? But you know , i focus and I do it and I push , and then when I'm done I'm like , oh , so glad I did that .

Speaker 1 52:00

But this brings up another interesting argument though or discussion , i should say in terms of at what point do we stop trying to fix our weaknesses and just accept our strengths and run with that So that's I don't know , yeah that's a whole nother , We don't leave that for the audience to answer . Yeah they can give you some feedback on that one . Give us some answers .

Speaker 2 52:20

Yeah , man , all right , so what else ? What has anything really surprised you about yourself during this process ?

Speaker 1 52:28

Yeah , the deadlifts for sure . I didn't like just I was looking to get back up to . so the most I've ever done in my life And this was just in a challenge for one rep was three plates , right , so three , 15 . And that was like the first time I tried it , i didn't get it up . And then this guy who was much taller than me and much thinner than me got it up . I'm like , yeah , this isn't acceptable .

Speaker 1 52:57

So I step back up to the bar and I caught it up , But I would know that was a one time thing . But what actually this is what surprised me the most so far throughout this experience as it relates to this is both inside the gym and outside the gym , And I'm really glad that I had the experience that I did . I had an inside the gym and an outside the gym experience on the same day . So I'm going to do deads , And at that point I think the max I was doing for six reps was oh no , I did 235 for five one week . Okay .

Speaker 1 53:25

So then the next week , I'm like , okay , well , we're going to go for 240 for sure , if not 245 on the third set . So second set , I'm like , Hey , put on what you did last week and let's get it for six before you go up and wait , let's max up our reps before we max out the weight . And so I go up to the bar and I'm like I'm getting myself all psyched up and everything like that , And I go and I lift it , I'm struggling , I get it like halfway up my shins and then just put it back down on the first rep .

Speaker 2 53:51

Yeah , yeah , okay .

Speaker 1 53:52

The first rep , so , and then I sit down afterward . I'm like , carl , you did this five times last week . You're telling me you can't do it once now . So then a strategy that's always , always worked for me in every single one of my workouts , is just have a nice relaxing workout , that's it . I just remove expectation , i have fun , i go up to the bar , make sure my form's good . So I waited about two minutes , i went and I pulled out six reps and then I put 240 on the bar and I did six reps . And so it was just . It reminded me to just relax , not put so much pressure on myself .

Speaker 1 54:24

And it was funny because later that day I was about to have like one of my emotional breakdowns . And what that looks like for me is I get anxious , i get nervous , and then I cancel things and I just shut down . I'll either watch Netflix or I just totally seclude myself . And it was a date night with Jenny Lee the last day that I want to be doing that . And I said , carl , you know what ? Just have a nice relaxing evening with Jenny Lee , just focus on relaxing , that's it . You'll do what you need to do .

Speaker 1 54:50

And it ended up being an unbelievable date night , all because I just I remove expectation . I let the unconscious take over . Like the part of me , I've been training diligently for over 20 years I let it take over and trust that it's going to do what I needed to do . And that's exactly what the body did in that situation in the gym And that's exactly what my mind did when I left the gym . So that was fun .

Speaker 2 55:14

That's like the . This is the epitome of mind-muscle connection , because it's your psychological state . It's not even in the moment You know it comes to mind . There's . I lift in my home gym by myself And I know a lot of people like to get psyched up when they go for a lift or they listen to loud , you know heavy rock music , or they got the camaraderie or the competition And I don't like all that stuff . I like when I , when I go for my set , i turn off everything and I just listen to myself by body and tell myself , give myself cues , and that is kind of a form of relaxing . I think If people listening are wondering if they've been struggling with their lifts and maybe it is putting too much pressure on themselves , what Carl just said could be game changing for you .

Speaker 1 55:55

It's a form of relaxation , but it's also a form of strength in that Like , because , for me , what I do now , whenever I'm working out , I always listen to a podcast episode that I'm going to be posting , because I I listen to the nuggets , but as soon as I get ready to my set , pause , yeah , put it on pause all the time . And it reminds me of something that Goggin said . He said if you're listening to music while you're working out , you're cheating . Yeah , yeah , because you need like .

Speaker 1 56:21

When I say at strength , it's because fewer places where you will you be introduced to the demons that are really inside you than in the gym .

Speaker 1 56:29

Yeah , like , if you shut everything else off and listen to the voices that are coming up when you're getting ready to do a weight that you didn't think you can lift , man , you're going to be surprised at some of the , the shit that those voices talk in your head and just and then being able to defeat those demons . Like today when I did the 205 , like I told my buddy who was giving me a spot , i'm like Hey , i'm going for two , we'll see if we get , we'll see if we get four , and then , as I'm sitting on the bench and I go to lie down . I'm getting myself positioned . It's like you've never done this before , carl , or I haven't done it for like 10 years . Anyways , yeah , and it's like you know what We are . We're going to crush this . And then , sure enough , two was easy And we got to four , so it was nice , after the fact , being able to say like , yeah , those voices in my head , i'm going to turn the volume down on those guys .

Speaker 2 57:18

Yeah , man , enjoy it . Enjoy it because you've got months ahead of you , i know .

Speaker 1 57:22

I know , i know , i'm looking forward to it . Two plates on the bench is coming right around the corner , for sure .

Speaker 2 57:28

Yeah , yeah . So what I mean ? how do you know when you're done ? How do you know when you're done And then , like , you've captured the flag on your muscle building process and then you have to switch focus potentially ?

Weight Goals and Self-Acceptance

Speaker 2 57:40

I think you know my answer .

Speaker 1 57:41

Oh switch focus .

Speaker 2 57:42

Okay .

Speaker 1 57:43

Because you're never done .

Speaker 2 57:45

Well , i mean , you're never done For me .

Speaker 1 57:50

I have a number in my head like I would like to . I've always wanted to be 165 . I've never been 165 in my entire life , So for me it's about getting to that number , regardless of performance , even muscle aesthetics , anything . It's all about proving that I can do something that I never thought was possible . Yeah , That's it . So like that is the number one goal for me , and just proving I could do something I didn't think was possible , But in terms of switching gears well , wait , when you get there , are you going to stay there for a while ?

Speaker 2 58:26

That's a good question .

Speaker 1 58:27

Yeah , that's a good question . I'm going to see how much Jenny Lee can not keep her hands off me . So if my , if the amount of physical attention I get from Jenny Lee goes up with my weight , then who knows , maybe I'll go 175 . But if it starts going down , i know I need to cut .

Speaker 2 58:45

So there'll be more to grab there , man , yeah , yeah . So and I asked also for a practical reason , because when you hit that weight , if you just stop and go back to maintenance , you may drop because of the carbs , so overshoot it by like a couple pounds or three pounds .

Speaker 1 59:02

So 165 is my overshoot right now . Okay , because , because I know I well , i know , when I cut , like , even if I were to drop down to 155 , that's 15 more pounds on me than I was walking around with for years . So 15 pounds on a frame this big is that's going to be healthy , that's going to be pretty healthy .

Speaker 2 59:22

So 165 is just that . That one day you get it on the scale , boom , you hit that number right As soon as I can already tell , because as soon as you said it , i'm like no , i can .

Speaker 1 59:31

I would love to see a one seven . A one seven something would be . Oh , that would be solid .

Speaker 2 59:36

Well , that's the cool thing about this is like you have a lot of runway . Honestly you do , because you started pretty darn lean , so you have that runway to keep pushing , pushing , pushing , pushing And I mean I would say , go until you just feel like that's it . You know it's okay to go until .

Speaker 1 59:50

I start hitting the process in months . Yeah , It's like a long way . Yeah , If it gets to the point where it's like just every single time I eat I'm like uh , like just falling out of my mouth And forget it .

Speaker 2 1:00:02

So let me know if and when that starts to happen , Cause sometimes it doesn't happen . It depends on how many calories you have , Like if you're leaner and you're not up in the four or something range . What do you think you're eating right now ? Calorie wise calorie wise .

Speaker 1 1:00:16

Yeah , i can't even give you a number . Yeah , okay , okay . So if you start tracking it's not , if it's like . That is what I'm taking away from as many things I'm taking away from this conversation I will begin tracking and I will begin taking a look at my emotional relationship to tracking Awesome , so yeah , give it .

Speaker 2 1:00:33

Give it a month , like commit to a month . If you can , Don't give up .

Speaker 1 1:00:38

Tell you , tell you what a strategy or a principle that works for me and kind of principle slash strategy is a lot of times not thinking too far down the road . Like , say , when I'm doing my 500 burpees , i can't think about the 500 . I've got to think about the first 25 . Got it , that's it . So for me , like I'll do 30 , but I'm just , i'm going to focus on the five .

Speaker 2 1:00:59

Okay , focus on five . Start today , five tomorrow .

Speaker 1 1:01:02

Whenever you're starting , okay , it's part way through the day So that that throws you off , no , but but no , it doesn't though , because , remember , what we said is I just need to track stuff like I need to track it after the fact .

Speaker 2 1:01:12

True , If you have the information from what you ate earlier . absolutely .

Speaker 1 1:01:14

Right , Which which I do , because all I've had was a banana and a protein shake . So that's okay , then we'll start today .

Speaker 2 1:01:21

All right . So , carl man , you know what I'm going to ask . next , i want to ask it of you again .

Speaker 1 1:01:26

Oh , man , I can't believe I wasn't ready for this .

Speaker 2 1:01:31

What question did you wish I'd asked , and what is your answer ?

Speaker 1 1:01:35

What question do I wish you had asked ? Let's see , i'm going to go with the same question and give you a different answer , because the question I asked last time that was what am I embarrassed about that ? I am ashamed that I'm embarrassed about that . I wish I wasn't embarrassed about , and it's how little I appreciate and love myself for the work that I'm doing . And the reason I say that is because there's this awesome guy named Mark that comes into the gym . Super nice guy . He actually works there too .

Speaker 1 1:02:08

I see him there this morning . I hadn't seen him a couple of weeks . He comes in , he's wearing a tank top and he looked . He looked good . Like he looked any . He hadn't even started working out yet . Like his , his shoulders were popping , he had some good designs , like he looked . He looked better than the last time I saw him . So I went up to him as soon as I was done training my clients . I'm like , hey , dude , like you're looking good . He's like Oh , thanks , man . I'm like you haven't even started yet . How do you look like that ? Like , that's like I want to look like that when I have a pump . But and he's quite a bit bigger than me too . So so I was jealous And as I'm walking away , i'm thinking , carl , like you , look at all these people that you say they're doing good and you'll even go up to them and say they're doing good And you're comparing yourself to them , saying I should be more like that .

Speaker 1 1:02:49

Like , what is it going to take for me to finally accept myself ? What is it going to take for me to finally accept that all this work I'm putting in is is doing something good ? Like what is it going to take for me to be able to accept a compliment ? Like I , as soon as people give me compliments I I've gotten better at it but I just shrug it off Like I make some type of joke or excuse and it's because I'm super uncomfortable with it . I'm super uncomfortable acknowledging the fact that all the hard work that I dedicate myself to is actually paying off . Is it any wonder why I don't like the process sometimes ? because I'm not taking the time to acknowledge myself for the hard work I'm putting in . So I I wish I didn't shed on myself as much as I did And I really wish that I took time to acknowledge the work that I'm putting in .

Speaker 2 1:03:35

And is this a ? is this a practice that you want to do more of for yourself , Or is this learning to accept others ? compliments .

Speaker 1 1:03:42

It's a practice . I want to do more for myself And I already have things in place that I've just

The Power of a Cookie Jar

Speaker 1 1:03:47

I've postponed . So I've got like I think I've talked to you about my cookie jar And my cookie jar is just for those who don't know it's it's literally wooden cookies and you , you paint dots on them So it looks like chocolate chips , but on the other side you write down the date and something you've either accomplished or something that you at least had the courage to try . And Jenny Lee got me this cookie jar and she put like 60 cookies in there for me And there's all these things in there The day I quit Canada post , my very first four hour boot camp , and there's a lot of stuff in there that I tried and failed at . But I had the courage to try And I went and bought 60 more cookies , like two months ago , and I haven't made another one yet Because to me , every thing when I used to go in the cookie jar , i'd pull it out And it was like I use them for bookmarks , or in the morning right before I leave , i was just going there to remind me like Carl , you've done some pretty amazing shit , like you need to stop and just take a breath and reflect on the fact that you were you were literally being the change you wish to see in your world .

Speaker 1 1:04:42

Like that . I've got it tattooed on my arm . I am being the man that I want to be And I'm not . I don't . I have the practices set up for it And I haven't taken the time to implement those practices .

Speaker 2 1:04:52

Well , dude , you've impacted my life for the better And I know individuals you've impacted And you know that you know they are , because there's people that are in our circle . I want you to text me with that first new cookie you made some video , there we go .

Speaker 1 1:05:07

Okay , okay , all right , i promise you I will have one done today And that's great .

Speaker 2 1:05:12

I mean , this is a form of gratitude for yourself , honestly , and you know , and I know you talked to Darling , just like I did in a daily gratitude practice is a good thing to have And I like that idea . I might , i might steal that idea as a way to do it for myself in some way . So thank you , carl man . I think this was just what we expected , and more , i hope , and always always .

Speaker 1 1:05:32

Buddy , this is amazing . Thank you for the amazing questions , thank you . Thank you for having the courage to challenge me , because that's what I talked about earlier , right Like that's . That's what I love about our relationship is we're not shy on challenging others perspectives And , at the same time , we will defend where we know our truth is .

Speaker 2 1:05:47

So I love that about us , for sure And I hope the listeners feel like they can challenge themselves , challenge each other , look for their support structures , listen back to the episode with you , know whatever resonates with you and take action on it today , because that's really what we're all about . Always a pleasure talking to you , my brother . Thank you , my brother . If you've been inspired by today's interview and are ready to take action and build momentum on your health and fitness journey , just schedule a free 30 minute nutrition momentum call with me using the link in my show notes . I promise not to sell or pitch you on anything , but I will help you gain some perspective and guidance so we can get you on the right track toward looking and feeling your best .