Philip Pape: 0:00

If we could identify a goal for the next three, six months, and then focus on that goal and that might be building muscle, our food choices are going to fuel that and should be directed toward that goal. It's not about eating good or bad, clean or dirty, whole or processed. It's about what serves your goal. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry. So you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits& Weights community Welcome to another bonus episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. This conversation is from my appearance on Mark Python's podcast 6am Ron, where we discussed nutritional periodization emotional eating, reframing your food choices, strength training and body composition and lots more. I've edited this down for time. So if you want to listen to the entire episode, go follow or subscribe to the 6am run podcast, which is not so much about running as it is about staying in motion. And we are definitely all about that. Okay, enjoy this episode.

Marc Paisant: 1:24

I believe the most important part of this whole process is connecting that mind body state I believe that is important getting that mindset Correct. However, people seem to forget how important nutrition is and how important the food you put in your body is because the I don't know why it is people kind of put that last people kind of put they'll put the rest and the food last, but kind of talk about those two parts of this process for you and how and why they're so important.

Philip Pape: 1:52

Yeah, it's true. I think people, you know, you've heard you can't you can't outrun a bad diet and concepts like that where activity is given a lot of weight in in our world, even when people aren't necessarily doing the most effective activity for them. Oftentimes, it is some some excessive form of cardio, right, and they get results that don't quite match what they think they're supposed to get. And you can look at the dichotomy between say, sprinters and marathon runners and draw some conclusions there potentially. But, you know, we have to periodize how we approach our body, our training our mind, our relationships, and our food, I think everything in life holistically, goes through seasons, and goes through periods. And we either a lot of people either live in a cloud of uncertainty, and they're like, Okay, before long, I'm just too heavy and and I need to do something, and they go to some opposite extreme, you know, of like cutting food, or they try to go in one mode for too long, they try to go into a, I'm going to, I'm going to cut calories, it's a way to do it. And to go on that for a long time. Or

Marc Paisant: 2:53

I feel like you're talking about me right now, I feel like you're specifically talking about so

Philip Pape: 2:57

many people, so many people, right. And, and you mentioned the maybe lack of focus on nutrition, and it's more another thing, some people are like, I'm just gonna train, train, train till till I can't train anymore, I'm gonna get sore, I'm gonna bring my heart rate up, I'm gonna destroy myself, you know, you get these terms, like, Oh, I was destroyed in the gym, you know, this is let's be effective. And thinking that that's going to do it. And I don't know, if people are just afraid of the hard work that it takes with your diet. Or if it's a lack of awareness, it's maybe a little both, right? It's a little both. Because even when you learn what to do, doing it is is a little bit of hard work at first to get there. So talking about periodization, where I'm going with that is if we can identify a goal for the next three, six months, and then focus on that goal. And that might be building muscle, our food choices are going to fuel that and should be directed toward that goal. It's not about eating good or bad, clean or dirty, whole or processed. It's about what serves your goal. And what's nice about this as you can break it down, it's to say, four months from now, I want to build you know, five, I want to add 10 pounds of weight and build some muscle. Okay, I need some amount of calories and protein to do that. And now that's going to drive me to pick you know, lean meats and animal sources for my protein or dairy or plant sources. And all of a sudden, you're saying I need fiber, I need water, I need protein and it directs your choices, rather than don't eat this or don't eat that. Right. So I don't know if that answers your question mark. But

Marc Paisant: 4:23

no, but it does answer my question. It's a great segue into something that you talk about a lot and it's it's like not limiting yourself in the the type of foods that you eat because you're absolutely right someone will get into a place where either they look in that mirror one day and they're like okay, this I gotta stop this or they may go to a doctor's visit and say you know what, we got to do something about this cholesterol or about this blood pressure about the pre diabetic and, and all of a sudden that you know, they hear one word and like, Okay, I'm cutting, every bit of sugar, every bit of salt every car, I'm cutting everything Hang out of my life right now. Right? And you kind of teach like, that's one that might not be the healthiest thing and to that's not the point of all this we can, we can get through this and you can still enjoy the foods that you want to so kind of talk about that and how you allow people to to know that food is not bad. It's fuel we need it, and how can they kind of change or reframe their thinking on that?

Philip Pape: 5:24

Oh, you hit on the head with the reframing. When you when somebody thinks of food is good or bad. I think Alan Aragon called it a straining the moral conscience, like you're actually making it a moral decision. And because it's a moral decision, you're making it about you. And you're saying that you are good or bad when you choose these foods. There have been studies since the 90s, that compared rigid Dietary Approaches to flexible approaches. And just to define that for a second, rigid means there are rules and there are things you can and it can't have. And this might be in the context of a diet like keto that says you can't eat carbs, or in the context of of a meal plan. And I know you're a nutritionist, and there's there's a place for meal plans. But when it's like, here's exactly what you eat in these amounts forever. People can't do that. That's just that doesn't jive with being a human. And on the other hand, have flexible approaches, we're going to set some targets for cat for energy and for macronutrients, but then you're going to choose the foods. And they found time and time again, that the rigid approach led to an inability to maintain your weight in increasing your body weight, and an increase in negative health markers. And also lack of control. So the control of this rigidity causes a lack of control because you end up binging like you said, you cut out salt, or you cut out, you know, fat or carbs. And your body's just going to crave that so much the temptation is going to be overwhelming. So, so the other approach that I like with clients, and this works, whether you're building, maintaining or losing fat, it gets a little bit more challenging when you're losing fat, because calories are lower. But it's let's, let's eat 10 to 20% of our calories, let's devote that to whatever you want. And then the rest, let's let's be a little more, let's use a little more restraint and eat whole foods. Now I don't say it that way. What I say is, hmm, you've got 60 grams of protein. And really we need 140 Based on what we're trying to accomplish. So how are we going to do that, and I want the client to kind of figure that out with me. And oftentimes, they come up with a solution. But if not, I'm there with, you know, my list of high protein sources and such. And they're like, Wow, I have to go to the grocery store. And I need all this protein, well, I can't be getting bags of popcorn, I can't be getting you know, pizza, because these don't have enough protein, but I could get some great greek yogurt or cottage cheese. And I could buy eggs, and I could buy beans, or oats. And you start to like change your decision making process to serve the goal, rather than what some guideline has for you. Now, once you do all that, and come Saturday night, and you're saying hi, so I have a little room for some fats, and carbs, and maybe even I want to have a glass of wine. And it all fits in there. Enjoy it. That's all I like to say. So that's the sustainable approach we're talking about.

Marc Paisant: 8:05

And I love that. And again, you're, I feel like you're just just reading into my history when it comes to things like that. Because, you know, learning in and I'll be honest with you, like I got the certifications, you know, to help people. But also I wanted to learn myself. And once you learn about the macro and micronutrients and what how the body act like the body needs carbohydrates, like the body needs fat, like the body needs those things. And for some, when I hear people say, I'm cutting out all the fat, or I'm cutting out all my all your carbs, and you're like, well, there's organs in your body that literally need those things. And then, but you but there is a part of this, that people need to know that as, as a society, we're not getting enough fiber in our diet. Like we don't get enough magnesium in our diet. We're not getting enough vitamin D in our diet. There are things that people need to focus on. And you brought up a great point with the protein. And again, I think you probably have been, you know, eavesdropping in my house, because when I started all this, and I'm six, five to 35 and Okay, all right, I was I'm embarrassed to say it. I was I was in taking about 75 grams of protein a day.

Philip Pape: 9:22

Sure. Yeah, it's not uncommon.

Marc Paisant: 9:26

And one of my buddies has, like, Man, I, you know, I started this and I'm feeling good, but it's just like, nothing is really changing. He's like, you might want to do a calculator and see how much protein you should be getting. And I did it and I was like, and be like, Oh my I'm getting less than half of the protein. You get any like, 200 Yeah. 200 Yeah, yeah. So and, you know, with the work that you do, I think a lot of people because I'm in my 40s also about to be 44 next next week, and you know, a lot of people see that three Oh, or that see that four, and they think well this says, This is my life. This is it, there's nothing I can do about it. When you get that, that client doesn't have to be a client could be a friend, could be an acquaintance could be somebody you meet at the store that says, Oh, you're a trainer, I was gonna go to the gym, but I turned 50 last week. And it's like, like, what are the things you tell them about their age and about the ability to still get that body or live that life they want to live?

Philip Pape: 10:25

So that's so good mark. Because first of all, I'm not going to just explain to some random person in a grocery store, you know, unless they ask me, and also many of my clients are, they have a baseline level of knowledge, I'll say, because I'm a big fan of community and education. And for me, like, I don't even want to work with you until you've learned the basics. And I want to help teach you the basics, right. But those basics come down to our body composition, and muscle muscle mass, in my opinion, that is the huge MISSING INGREDIENT with most people. Okay, we all focus on the scale, very few people focus on their body composition. Well, even if you're 70 years old, and you've been sedentary your entire life, meaning you've had a significant loss of muscle mass, this is a fact. This is why our metabolisms slow down with age not because we're old, not because of some mysterious process going on. It's because our muscles have atrophied because we're not using them. Our body says you don't need these muscles. So every time you eat food, protein, whatever, we're not going even prioritizing rebuilding prioritize rebuilding those muscles. But just just like you made the choice not to give those muscles attention, you could do the opposite now, and give them attention. And you do that with strength training with putting load on your body through, you know, through through lifting weights, and with consuming sufficient protein. And that right there, that's 80% of it 80 to 90% of it will get even if you're overeating under eating whatever, that'll get you a significant portion of the way there. And when you're 70, and you've never done it before and you start training, you could actually rebuild muscle that you've lost. And you can turn back the clock 10, even 20 years over the next several years. So that that's kind of where I would start is muscle and body composition.

Marc Paisant: 12:00

And I think you're absolutely correct. That is so I mean, I don't think people really, I'm not gonna generalize, but a lot of people don't understand how important building muscles and how as as, yeah, especially as we get older and you know, the the building blocks of proteins, amino acids, all that good stuff, we could get technical, but we're not going to do that. That's, that's for you and your coach to do when you decide to get a coach. But one thing we can kind of, I don't want to say dumb it down. But put it in layman's terms. You talked about getting into the gym and starting this strength training program. And some people just don't know where to start. Right. And, you know, I remember my first few times at the gym, where it's like, okay, I know the benchpress machine, I know, the squat rack, I know, the barbells. And all right, I'll do those three things, and I'll get out of here. And a lot of people kind of have that fear of going to the gym. And to say it just outright, they don't want to look dumb, they don't want to look at they haven't like they haven't been there. And that's a sad part of training in, in the society we live in now, where if you go to a gym, and you're out of shape, trying to take care of your life is not exactly correct. Like why, like, that's the person we should be celebrating. Yes. And but my, my thought, you know, my, my, what I did is I went and got a trainer. That's what I did. I wanted to make sure I knew and and now might you my sister is doing the same thing. And she's using me as her trainer. And she's she wants to learn but for that person that says, Okay, I want to get the gym membership. I want to go in two to three times a week. I just want to make sure I know what I'm doing. And let's be honest, not injure ourselves at the same time. So I mean, there's YouTube university, but I want to tell people right now be very careful with what you find online like be very careful. But for that person, Philip, like, how do you what do you tell them about that first few times into a gym and the weight program they use?

Philip Pape: 13:57

Yeah, I tell I totally agree that when you first get started if you're going to do barbell training, which, again, in my opinion is, is I'll say the most effective or the most time efficient, effective way to get into it. If you have a choice not everybody does. Some people don't have access to equipment or the gym, or they only have dumbbells, sometimes those are excuses to and I've had clients that were like, Let's just just buy a rack of barbell for your house, you've got the space you've got the money do it please do it, you're gonna thank me that you did that. But even I when I was learning the list properly about four years ago, I spent quite a quite a while spinning my wheels and probably increasing my risk of injury because I didn't work with a coach just even once. During that time I took videos I did form checks online, it's still not enough until you have somebody looking at you. either in person or through a video. That's okay. In the online world. We could do it that says hey, you know, here's change your grip like this, use this cue you're not getting to depth blah blah blah, and use the spotter arms because otherwise you're going to crush the bar on your neck. You know, like all these little things. For the safety and for the form, and once you get that, then you can just progress the load, progress the weight, and get really strong really fast. So make the investment, even if it's one hour with one coach and say, Look, I want to, I want to perfect my squat. And my deadlift, show me how

Marc Paisant: 15:15

that is, you bring up a great point, because I think a lot of people, and you've probably seen this will think this takes a lot of time. And I'll be honest with you, like it's the time investment is not that much. But you do have to be patient, like you're not going to go to the gym for a month and see, you know, their six pack abs just like that that's not going to happen. I think one of the greatest things about any kind of fitness program that is not a fad, that is not a fly by night program is that, that it delays, that ability to see what's happening, you have delayed gratification, you know, teaches you patience. And if you're a person right now, and you have so many people telling you, like you're impatient, you can't wait for things that you have that that's that's part of your psyche, like start a fitness program, and, you know, wait for those results or go get those results. So I gotta

Philip Pape: 16:10

I gotta answer that, because you just you just struck me like deepen my, my psyche, because handle most impatient person I know. And yet, I feel like I've become a lot more patient. And I'm wondering if it's because of the training, you know, you make a great point, I often talk about the mental resilience that comes from training, if you do it the right way. And in fact, some people don't like some people say they don't like lifting weights. And when I dig into their programming, there's reasons why like, very often it's because they're doing lightweights, a lot of reps. And it's just like, it's like the cardio workout. And you know, most people don't like that. But if you slow it down, if you go really heavy and you do low reps, I've found so many people who thought they'd never get into that. And within a week, they're just Oh, my squat PR went up, and they get so passionate about it. Because you get under this bar, that seems like you know, there's no way you could lift it, you do it, and you go to the gym the next time, and you know that you can lift at least that much, that is a fact that you are going to get stronger unless you're severely under fetters or not getting sleep or something like that. And you're like, Well, I lifted 95. So now I'm gonna lift 100. And you keep doing that every session, at some point, you get to a mental block, you're like, 135, I've got the big plates on now. There's no way I can do that. But it's like you've done it. And it's only a small change from the last time. So get under the bar and do it. Even if you feel like crap that day. If you feel sluggish, if you don't feel strong, chances are you're still going to be able to bang those reps out. And that creates some sort of mental toughness.

Marc Paisant: 17:42

Yeah, I mean, they have those two and a half and five pound plates for a reason. They have them for redo. Those are not I mean, those are not kiddie plates. Those are plates for help people to track their progress. And I love those plates, especially on squats and deadlifts. Like those are like, once I, you know, you go from, you know, 335 to 345 You're like, oh, okay, I'm getting stronger. You know, and I think that's a good thing. And, and you want Pete here's the thing as as a coach, and as a person who lives in this, this arena and lives here. You want people to feel that, like you want people like you love seeing Democrats like you as a coach, like, this is what they're paying like you. But at the same time, it's like, I want them to see this, like, I want them to feel this like because so many times, you know, we hear people say the words, oh, I can't I can't do that. Oh, no, no, no, I don't even want to do that. Like, uh, can we just focus on like, I appreciate it. But I can't do that. And then 30 days later, guess what they're doing? They're doing it. So that I mean, I want you to talk about that part of your job and how that makes you feel to see that person who may have, you know, said those words, I can't. And you didn't prove them wrong. But they prove themselves, right.

Philip Pape: 18:58

I live for it every day. I mean, I live not only not only that in a vacuum, but relative to how they used to think about everything. So they might have come to me really focused on the scale, and how much they weigh. Yes. And now they're focused on their PRs, you know, and their press and their bench and their squat. And the fact that they went to the gym and the fact that they slept and ate and recovered, and hey, I got all my carbs because that fuels my recovery and fuels my training and because I did that I lifted more this week. Right? So it, if I'm not getting that from a client, I feel disappointed like I'm letting them down. Right? Because I want to see that. And then once they get through that mental barrier of focusing not on the scale, but on their performance, and getting and building right and fueling and being a human like think about this is a this is being a human being in on the earth. Like we have to interact with stuff and we have to interact with people and lift things and get off the toilet and whatever it is or whatever age you are. That's what being a human is. And that physical health leads to the emotional health we're talking about. And all of that feeds itself like a wonderful spiral. Then once we do that, we may say, Okay, now you want to lose a little fat and see the six pack, that's actually gonna be pretty easily compared to what you just went through. Like, we just have to dial back some calories be a little consistent, and we're gonna get there. But it's that first thirst barrier. That's very exciting.

Marc Paisant: 20:21

Yeah, and I think one of the things in that you probably have to at least talk about often is those people who just just making sure people understand the process, because a lot of a lot of people and I have come to me and say, Hey, I just want to turn my, my fat into muscle, it's like, well, you'd be the first to do that.

Philip Pape: 20:42

physically impossible,

Marc Paisant: 20:43

physically impossible. But like, how do you because I might be asking for, for me, there's no reason. But, you know, how do you talk to that person who, like, they have it in their head that they, they want to get to the moon tomorrow, and it's like, you haven't even built a spaceship. It's like, you know, I have this little bit of fat around here. And here. And here. I just want to turn that into muscle, like, at no point as a coach want to make some but like, I would not speak to somebody like I just did I would not do it don't be like, exactly, but how do you use that bit of empathy, and kind of help that person to actually know what the process is?

Philip Pape: 21:25

I mean, that really starts from the very beginning of the relationship, which for me, with most clients is well before they're even thinking of being a client, right? This might be through the podcast or Facebook community and through conversations, because I want you to have an understanding that this is a slightly longer term process, it does take patience, but it's actually a lot shorter than you think you think to be effective. Meaning you've been spinning your wheels for 2030 years, with yo yo diets and just ineffective training programs. I'm asking you for six months to do it right for the first time in your life and get incredible results. So when you kind of put it in that context, six months is really nothing. And it's the let's do it, right? Let's do it, right, let's do it the right way. Because then when we're done, I want you to fire me and have the confidence you can do this for the rest of your life, and maybe even teach other people how to do it, because you're so excited that it works. Right. So that's kind of where I come from Mark,

Marc Paisant: 22:17

I love it. And let's kind of shift over to the website into the program Wits & Weights, and it's over at wits & weights.com. And it's spelled just like you believe it's spelled w i t s, A and D weights.com. So you can go over there and sign up for subscribe to a newsletter, one on one coaching community, see the pot listen to the podcast there, kind of talk about how Wits & Weights was started? And what was the genesis of it? And what can people expect if they were to sign up with you?

Philip Pape: 22:45

Yeah, it started as the podcast. So I know. And that's maybe a less common story, right? A lot of times people create a podcast, maybe to market their business. For me, it was a passion project started as a podcast I wanted, I walked through everybody through the foundations of primarily strength training at the time, and then eventually accomplish nutrition. And then that ties into our community. So it's all about this sustainable approach to fitness and nutrition, where strength and nutrition converge. I truly believe that strength and muscle mass are are required, like they are required. Even if you are a runner, even if you're an endurance athlete, they're the foundation of all our physical attributes, and they make all of this other stuff easier. So if a client comes to me, if you want to work with me, it's generally six months, sometimes it's 12. If you're if you want to go through the entire periodization phase of building muscle and losing fat, but usually six months is a good amount of time where the first we'll call it eight to 10 weeks is like a pre diet maintenance phase, where we get your movement up, we get your training and the right effective program for you. We work on your nutrition, your protein, your tracking, and so on. Other things like hydration, sleep, stress, whatever the client needs, then after that period, we're usually in a really good metabolic situation where your metabolism is as healthy as it can be your hormones are regulated. Okay, late, especially ladies who are listening like there's a lot of this can be, I don't wanna say fixed, but issues you might have that express themselves as like hypothyroidism and other things often come down to just proper nutrition and carbs and movement. Once we set that up, then we can go for the goal. Now what's funny mark is most people come to me wanting to lose weight, I would say 80% of the time, they end up changing that goal after the first few weeks to maintaining and body composition. So they we kind of maintain their weight while they build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Which guess what that's doing you're effectively turning the fat into muscle. But you're just doing them in two separate transactions at the same time. And and what all then happens is the waist size goes down. They start feeling great in their clothes, the confidence comes back and you're now walking around this Earth at the same weight but feeling leaner lighter, stronger performing better. And then that mindset shifts toward, well, maybe the weight on the scale isn't where I think it needs to be anymore. So, and for the clients that don't do that I have other clients that switched to doing muscle building. So now that I've had clients who said they had to lose 20 pounds, and all of a sudden I have them gaining weight, you might be listening, thinking what no way that would never happen. And their lifts just go way up, they pack on so much muscle, and then we can go to a fat loss phase later and get that done relatively fast and quickly and higher calories, right, so eat more food. Finally, and this is important Mark, we take them out of that, whatever goal that is to a sustainable level of maintenance. So we learn how to maintain our weight for the rest of our lives if need be. So that's the general process.

Marc Paisant: 25:42

That is such a great point at the end. And I meant to mention this earlier, if guys, if Phillip sounds better than I do on he definitely has a podcast host, he's got the acoustic foam and everything he sounds, it's just I meant to mention that earlier. But But you bring up such a great part of this process that a lot of people don't understand or fail to realize at the beginning like it, if you're, I want to say two things. One, if you're a runner, and you're struggling with your runs, take some time off, strengthen the core strengthen, you know, do some strength training, the best runs I've had in my life have been in the last year, because I've focused on the strength training, like I said to 35, I've had better runs at 235 than I did at 220 or 215. And like I don't, I know people aren't gonna believe me, I don't get tired, my legs don't get tired on my runs right now. Like I might, my lungs might be I might get tired, but I always feel like I can go further and longer because I have that core and quad hamstring calf strength, all that good stuff. But the one thing that is so important to this, so I'm gonna tell people, if you're going to get into any kind of program, understand that at their view might end your work with your coach. But the point is to get you to a point where you're okay, maintaining where you are, and you talked about yo yo dieting, you talk and I'll be honest with you like that's, that can be more detrimental than just keeping the weight on like going from 300 to 210 to 270 to 180. You know, having a high sugar content, low sugar, high fat, like doing that can really do a number on your heart. And your goal, of course is not to keep these people as clients forever, like you don't want that, like you want them to succeed on their own. However, people have to leave with the tools, and the mindset and the ability to maintain all the work that they've done. And I don't think a lot of people really understand how important that part is.

Philip Pape: 27:45

You got it. I mean, I think that's core to being an ethical coach. You know, like, I think it's part part of my ethical philosophy that because I went through this myself, and I only trust myself helping others because I have the tools, and I want you to have those tools, I don't want you to do something because I told you to. That's what that's what too many destructive diets do. Right? These 800 calorie diets to tell you not to move and stuff like that. Just trust us, you get the results, by the way, pay for it by our product and definitely, you know, so it's just a matter of ethics. And also you're gonna you're gonna tell five friends about about you because it works and then you're gonna be able to also help people in your life who may not be able to afford a coach. And I think that's part of this, that's part of the generosity and the the movement, the impact that we make with others, just making more and more people healthy. So, yeah, I think it's very important to be fully equipped and knowledgeable and

Marc Paisant: 28:37

fully equipped and knowledgeable in that, you know, if you like I've talked about, you know, the mental health aspect of it, and how I've, you know, a lot of therapy, a therapist to help me and I talked about my physical, you know, fitness and how I did the same thing I got a coach like we, we tend we seem to limit ourselves individually, we seem to put those those blockers on those we and it's hard for us to tell ourselves one more rep, when we're the only ones there. And I think there is a great space for for people like you that you have the empathy piece because you've been through it, you know, when someone has that look in their eye where they think I can't get through this, or this is going to be my life forever. Like you you you recognize that look, you recognize the words that people use. So you know before I let you go, there's people again, we cater to a lot of runners we cater a lot of fitness people like to stay in shape, but we also cater to people that may have fallen off life has gotten away like no one is telling you that there's not a reason for where you're at today. We understand the nine to five, gotta get the kids to school, got to take them to practice you might coach one of them by the time you look at the clock, it's 1030 and you haven't done anything for yourself. So when you have that person when that person talks to you, and you see the distress In their eyes, and you see the kind of complacency in their body language? How do you kind of just help them? Just to get them started? How? What are some things that people can do? And yeah, we have the cliche, go get a gym membership, just go outside and walk. But what what kind of work do you do to help that person know that they can get to where they want to be, even with a limited amount of time?

Philip Pape: 30:22

Man, you're getting deep, you're getting deep here, this is good. Well, you know, we're definitely not at fault for many of the things that have happened to us. Right. And we're and going forward, though, we are 100% responsible for what we can do. And there's always this cliche of, you know, motivation leads to action leads to results. And, and I've said this on many other podcasts, but I prefer to, I prefer to just take action, messy action, whatever you want to call it, take a step forward, and do something that gives you results and that small win, to then give you motivation to do it again and again. And that's where I think we can get very objective about this and say, Take take all the emotional trauma and all the real depth out of it there and just say, let's, let's use a system of tracking of awareness, right, let's treat this like we would our money with our budget, or our kids going to college or a retirement plan, and just gather information about what's going on, the more information we have really Information is power. So the more information we have about our eating habits, how much we what we eat, whether we train, how much water we drink, and so on, started with just one thing, it could be step count, right? If you don't even track your steps, how do you start? How do you walk more tomorrow? And how do you know you're walking more than next week after that, like you said, don't just say the cliche of move more, I agree. Like, get a wearable track your steps, look at your phone, see what the number is and set a new goal. And now do that and get the feedback. And as soon as you hit that goal for the next day or two, that's that's a win that feeds back into Okay, now I'm on a roll. Now, let me build that. And you can layer on habits and stack things together. You can, you know, watch your Netflix while you're on your assault bike, or whatever.

Marc Paisant: 32:04

You got to leave by God. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 32:07

you don't have to say like stack things. I listen to podcasts. Sometimes when I go for a walk, you know, not always because sometimes I just want to enjoy nature and distress too. And that's really what it is like I don't, when we talk about emotional eating, right, we can get very complicated and say we're gonna go find the root cause and dig into the trauma, Oregon, say what triggers you to emotionally eat, okay, let's look at that trigger and do something about that trigger going forward. It might be controlling your environment, it might be having a conversation with your roommate or spouse, it might be having a written down plan for what you do when x happens, right? It might be tracking your macros and knowing that doing that keeps you away from the trigger, causing you to eat, you get what I'm saying, Mark? So it's all very objective, rational things to deal with what we see as complicated emotional situations. That's the approach I like to take. Yeah, and

Marc Paisant: 32:54

I think what you mentioned there is that we, we tend to complicate things do not need to be complicated, right? And, and again, I believe that you've been watching over me because it's exactly like the thing. One of the most important things is not just filling your plate too quickly. And just the one thing you mentioned the one thing, and that's what I focused on the time of day that I ate, I cut nothing else out, um, I didn't start working out I didn't start running. I just cut. When was the last time in the day I can eat? Because your body does need to acclimate a little bit it does once if I would have done that and be like, Hey, I'm gonna go to the gym at night. Like my body would have hated me. A long time. Exactly. But but once you and I want to throw something on, and I know I'm not the guest, but I do want to throw something on about the emotional eating. Part of it is that people will say, like people have already heard drink a glass of water before you like it. It does work though. Like it does work. Water is so good. None of us get enough of it. I know I need to drink a little bit more now. And what you said about motivation, a lot of us crave it. A lot of us look for a lot of us. I need to feel motivated. I'm just not motivated today. Well, the gym is still there, like it's still it didn't go anywhere. Like it's like the weights are still there, the resistance bands are still there, your walking shoes are still there, like they don't need motivation. And one thing I definitely want you to talk about is the moment and I just thought about this, I think it's a good thing for anybody who wants to become a coach or is in this space. Like the moment that person you're working with starts to get that discipline and they may show up five minutes early or they may show up and they're already warmed up and ready to go and and they're asking you for more like the moment that person gets you see that discipline has grown in them. Like what is that feeling like for you?

Philip Pape: 34:59

Oh, And, and that can happen, that can happen a weekend and it can happen three months. And you know, it really depends on the client, you know what I'm saying. And that's where I think I think as a coach, I can help someone get to that point sooner, right? Especially if they struggle with it. So meaning that they're, if they're already in a train of thought of I am this and I have been this, and I fail at this, as opposed to, you know, I'm the person who trains every day and I'm the person who eats well, and all that. I see it in their weekly check ins, I see it when they reach out for me with questions. And they say, Wow, I didn't do this. Because of this. Right? I hear the excuses. I hear all these things. Now, fortunately, they have me as a support structure which you can have in your life, even if it's not a coach, who says, All right, fine, you did that that's in the past, what are we going to do going forward? And why did that happen? And let's diagnose it and change that. And then you ask me how I feel. So I feel I guess, vindicated, satisfied and, and proud, right? On behalf of my client, when they all of a sudden, two or three weeks in a row say, well, yep, I was consistent again with my protein. And it almost becomes boring, which I want to see. I want to stay I did, I did a check and tear. The client said, I feel like a broken record. But my wins are I'm consistent with this, this, this, this this and I'm like, good. I'm like, that's what we want things to be so boring. You don't even think about them. Because they're just ingrained in your life. Right. So yeah,

Marc Paisant: 36:26

I agree wholeheartedly. Like there's nothing wrong with being practical, pragmatic, sticking to a schedule. That's that consistently. Consistency is how, you know, it's how bodies are made. It's how dreams are achieved at that consistency. So that is that is great. I'm glad to hear that.

Philip Pape: 36:48

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