Philip Pape: 0:00

We become less efficient at absorbing and using protein, right what's called muscle protein synthesis. The effectiveness of it declines with age. And so you actually need more protein with age, not less. So, the older you get, the more protein you need, the more protein you should have. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits& Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits& Weights podcast. I hope you enjoyed our last episode number 90, which was a q&a where I answered 11 questions related to calorie tracking daily weigh ins, building muscle over 40 and EA supplementation among many other nutrition related topics. Today for Episode 91, titled protein misconceptions and strategies for fat loss, muscle growth and optimal health. We are discussing the wide ranging benefits of protein. Its pivotal role in enhancing satiety, preserving lean mass, boosting metabolism, supporting muscle recovery and improving body composition. Especially as you age, we'll uncover surprising facts about the so called anabolic window. Proteins role in sleep induced muscle growth, pre bed protein, how much protein you can actually use, and how protein needs change with age. My goal in this episode is to share the latest evidence based information we have about protein, and dispel some of the misconceptions that have been hanging around for a while so you have more clarity when it comes to this essential macronutrient. I'll then wrap up with specific strategies to meet your protein needs, optimal protein distribution throughout the day, the use of supplements and how to apply these strategies for a flexible approach during any fat loss or muscle building phase. Let's get into today's topic. First, I want to start off by highlighting two recent studies. And I looked at these in the Dr. Bill Campbell's research review. And by the way, he is going to be on our next episode, so make sure to follow and check that out. One of the studies is from 2021, ones from 2022. And they highlight how powerful just a slight increase in protein can be for body composition. Independent of calories of training of any other factor means really somewhat surprising when you look at the results. The first study, the more recent one from 2022 is called effects of whey protein or its hydrolysate supplements, combined with an energy restricted diet on weight loss and older women. So what they wanted to do is evaluate the effects of whey protein or other way supplements combined with a diet in these older women who have who are overweight or add an obese weight. And it was a randomized controlled trial with three groups, the control group was on an energy restricted diet. And then the other two groups had two types of protein, the whey protein, 20 grams of whey protein, or 20 grams of whey protein hydrolysate for eight weeks. And the results were that both of the supplemented groups with the extra 20 grams of protein had higher reductions in body weight, BMI and body fat, then the control group, which is crazy, because they actually had slightly more calories to think about it because all the change was adding 20 grams of protein. And then the the whey protein hydrolysate group had a slightly larger increase in lean body mass, and a few other factors, I think resting energy expenditure and some metabolism factors. So the conclusion here is that whey protein or similar combined with a calorie deficit, a diet can benefit anybody in this in this case, it was older women, but really anybody during weight loss. And so it's very powerful because these women were not training, they didn't change anything else, and they actually lost more body fat, even with slightly more calories. Crazy. Okay. Now Similar results were previously found in a study from 2021. And the title of that study is the effect of 12 weeks of you energetic high protein diet in regulating appetite and body composition of women with normal weight obesity. And in this case, the is was also a randomized control trial. This had two groups, a high protein diet where 30% of calories came from protein, and a control diet was half of that 15% of calories from protein for 12 weeks, and both provided the same amount of energy that participants normally ate The results were that the high protein diet led to greater reductions in body fat percentage fat mass and visceral fat than the control diet. It also not surprisingly, increased satiety, reduced hunger, and the desire to eat compared with the crowd control diet. So the conclusion there is a high protein diet is effective for improving body composition again, and appetite regulation. Even in women with normal weight, obesity is the term they use. So what I want to do is jump into talking about all the other benefits of protein just too, this is going to be kind of an epic episode that covers everything protein related. So the first benefit is something we just mentioned. And that is related to satiety. And I'm starting off with this one, because I think we focus a lot on muscle mass, but it's very important understand that protein helps you feel full, which can then reduce your caloric intake and support your fat loss or weight loss efforts. Even if you're not tracking just having more protein, as we just discovered with those two studies. Part of that is because protein takes longer to digest as a higher thermic effect of feeding than carbohydrates or fat. And that just helps you feel fuller for longer, especially if you're getting it from Whole Foods, slower digesting foods, and so on. So that's one important benefit. The next and better benefit is that it preserves lean mass, we know that Protein is essential for muscle recovery, or muscle growth, but it also preserves lean mass during calorie restriction, which then what does that do? Well, it promotes greater loss of fat. This is so so important. In my recent episode about body fat overshooting, I talked about this, that when you are not strength training, and you don't have enough protein, you're going to lose some muscle in the process. But we've actually seen that even if you're not training, having a lot of protein is going to blend that effect as well. So that's how important it is, your body's going to break down muscle tissue for energy if you don't consume enough protein period, independent of strength training. And then of course, training is another variable. Another benefit of protein is that it could actually slightly increase your energy expenditure, your metabolic rate allow you to burn a few more calories. And that's because of the higher thermic effect of feeding. Now, maybe this has been overblown, a little bit, it's not a huge amount. But if you look at the numbers, protein has a thermic effect of around 20 to 30%. In carbs and fat, it's around five to 15%. So in relative terms, it makes a difference. And also the more whole foods you eat versus processed foods, you're going to have a higher thermic effect. That's another really cool side effect of eating whole foods beyond the natural fact that you're getting, you know, higher satiety and fiber and nutrients and all those other things. All right, the next big one, which we all know and love is muscle recovery and growth. And I say recovery first, because it's important to know that we build our muscles while we're sleeping, right? We build them between workout sessions when we are recovering. And so after those, those training bouts, where your muscles have broken down, you need that protein to help repair them and rebuild them, and then make them stronger and larger, all part of the beautiful process of getting big and strong. Another benefit of protein is it, it can help in reducing abdominal fat I, I alluded to the fact that that second study or the older study showed a reduction in visceral fat, we you see this in all sorts of habits, like when you get more sleep, we noticed that fat tends not to accumulate as much around the abdomen where it's more dangerous that visceral fat. And evidence shows that high protein diets also may assist in reducing abdominal fat doesn't mean it's going to necessarily reduce fat by more than than other diets, although I think it actually does as well. But it also reduces where you store the fat in terms of your, you know, around the organs. And that kind of fat is linked to an increased risk of heart disease, stroke type two diabetes, all sorts of things. Protein is extremely important for physical performance and blunting the effect of age related muscle loss as we get older. So in addition to preserving lean master in a caloric deficit, it's also simply critical as we get older, we become less efficient at absorbing and using protein, right, what's called muscle protein synthesis, the effectiveness of it declines with age and so you actually need more protein with age, not less. So the older you get, the more protein you need, the more protein you should have. And then, of course strength. I mean, we talked about coupling protein with resistance training, the you know, repairing rebuilding of those muscles. I think I'm being redundant. So maybe because I just love that aspect of protein so much. So those are the benefits of protein. Now I want to talk about a few other things about protein that may or may not be surprising to you. So there's not going to be anything shocking here. Other than the fact that if you've accepted certain elements of bro science all these years and by the way, some bro science is spot on. And they knew things way before we did and we before the Science showed it, I'm referring to the bro science, it just continues to hold its grasp to this day and it's just not true. So the first one is the anabolic window. I think I talked about this with Alan Aragon when he was on the show, and I've talked about it with a few others. The anabolic window is the period of time after a workout when your body is most receptive to muscle growth. And it was once thought that you had to consume protein immediately after workout right or else you just lose that opportunity. Recent research shows that as long as you get protein throughout the day, actually, as long as you get enough protein for the day, the timing may not even be that critical. Just because of how long this window really is. I generally say you know, to play it safe, consume your proteins around workout, consume your protein around workouts, right, I like to say two hours before two hours after. But it's as long as you get your total protein for the day, generally, you're fine no matter what. And don't worry about the next time someone talks about the anabolic window. The other misconceive Another misconception is protein before bed. So yes, consuming protein before you go to sleep will stimulate muscle protein synthesis during sleep. But it's no more than any other time of the day. So just because you spread out your protein in one happens to be before this long stretch of sleep slash fasting. It isn't any more effective than having done that earlier in the day. Right. So the counter to that is if eating late causes you to have trouble sleeping or have trouble with digestion, or it just doesn't make sense for your calorie distribution or your lifestyle. You don't force it right. On the other hand, reserving some calories for a late night snack before bed. But early enough before bed, where it doesn't bother your sleep can be a great strategy, especially during fat loss to make sure you have room for some an extra extra burst of protein, right at the end of the day an extra like 20 grams that you might need. And also to take away some of the hunger you might be feeling. But But that has nothing to do with protein synthesis. So just wanted to mention that if you want to eat before bed, casein is always thrown out as a good option because it digests slower, but it really doesn't matter, you're going to stimulate protein synthesis regardless. Okay, the next thing is the idea that your body can only, quote unquote, absorb or use so much protein in a single meal. Now, it is true that if you try to eat a lot of protein at once, you're not going to get the maximum muscle protein synthesis synthesis spread throughout the day, just because you don't have enough moments at which you are consuming that protein. And that's more important than the amount at that one time. But the most important thing at all is total grams of protein for the day. And so whether you have a lot of protein at once or not, the excess protein is still going to be used for other bodily functions, it's still energy, it doesn't disappear. You don't pee it out, right? It supports your immune function hormones, but it repairs other tissues. So you've got to do what works for you. Now, if you're trying to consume 200 grams of protein, you probably don't want to have it all in one meal because men that that that would be tough on your stomach, I think for most people, and almost be hard to, like fit the food down. So there's logistical elements to this that we all have to consider. And don't worry, however, if you can only have two or three meals and you have to just eat more protein that that day in those meals, it's okay if you have 70 grams, 80 grams, but we do have a sweet spot of around 2530 35 grams of protein per meal snack. So if you're trying to quote unquote, optimize, definitely try to do that. Okay, so now protein quality, right? Not all proteins contain all nine essential amino acids in significant amounts of essential amino acids are the ones that the body can't produce, right, and you have to obtain food from food. animal proteins typically have all the essential amino acids, all nine. Many plant proteins are incomplete. But if you're eating a variety of plants, mixing and matching, and of course if you aren't omnivore anyway, you're fine. If you're vegan or vegetarian, your options are more limited, you have to get slightly more creative. But just be aware of protein quality. We don't want to be slamming protein shakes or protein bars all the time. It's not just about the amino acids, it's also about the amounts of those, the digestion, the availability, the the other elements of the nutrition and what we eat, things like that. Okay, I already mentioned before that the protein needs of older adults increases due to decreased protein efficiency and the increased risk of muscle loss, you just become less efficient. So we do have to consume more as we get older. And I wanted to just reiterate that in case people thought it was somehow the opposite that Oh, older people don't need as much protein. No, you need more. The other another myth related to one thing that I just mentioned earlier was the excess protein. You know, how does excess protein get used? Well, like any excess, like any excess energy, it's going to get converted into glucose or fat, which gets stored in the body. But it comes down to energy balance, it really does, it comes down to energy balance. So if you want to have 250 grams of protein, but have fewer fats, and carbs, and the calories are the same. From a weight perspective and the fat loss perspective, it's going to be similar. Now, if you if your protein plummets down to like 30, or 40, or 50 grams of protein, that's where we get into the territory, where you actually start to significantly lose the benefits of protein. And then it really isn't just about energy balance. It is but it isn't meaning having protein that is too low is going to lead to your a different difference in how your body uses and stores that energy such that you may be hungrier right. And you may actually your body mass changes in accordance with calories, but the composition of your body mass will be worse off meaning your body will sacrifice more muscle. And that is not a good that is not what we want, even though the weight on the scale is going to be the same. We don't want that.

Unknown: 16:35

My name is Tony Romo strength lifter in my 40s Thank you to Phil in his Wits, & Weights community for helping me learn more about nutrition and how to implement better ideas into my strength training. Phil has a very, very good understanding of macros, and chemical compounds and hormones and all that and he's continuously learning. That's what I like about Phil, he's got a great sense of humor. He's very relaxed, very easy to talk to. One of the greatest things about Phil, in my view is that he practices what he preaches. He also works out with barbells, he trains heavy, you noticed that he has made but he trains heavy. So if you talk with him about getting in better shape, eating better, he's probably going to give you some good advice. And I would strongly recommend you talk with him. And he'll help you out. Thanks.

Philip Pape: 17:20

Let's see, we talked about the thermic effect of feeding. So I don't want to reiterate that. We also talked about satiety. And I think this is really important that not only satiety but also food quality. So when you're in fat loss, your protein should be pretty high relative to your overall calories, much more than when you're gaining. And this is a good thing because it leads to you selecting foods that are generally whole food sources. Because where do we get protein from primarily meat, seafood, eggs, dairy, and plant sources, they're very few processed foods that have a decent amount of protein. If you need a lot of protein. There's some write obviously, whey protein and supplements. I don't quite count those as processed because they're very limited. Limited processing and filtering from a whole food source. But you know, that's arguable. But just consider that. From a from a weight management perspective, even if you're not tracking protein can be very important. And then the last thing is, protein is is really amazing in terms of its impact on your overall health. Right besides muscle. It repairs other tissues, as we said before, but it also helps to create enzymes helps transport nutrients, right helps in the production of hormones, neurotransmitters, other important substances, so it's very important for oral health. Okay, so I kind of covered the bases, I think with protein benefits and some of the surprising things about protein. What do you do with this information? What do you do with this information? All right, so I'm going to try to just summarize the main points one by one to hit the basics, but also to optimize. So first, let's just talk about total protein needs. And I know I've talked about this in a lot of other shows, maybe you're new to the show, maybe you just want a refresher. So this episode is meant to be all inclusive. You want to determine your protein needs based on primarily your target body weight, but it's also based on your activity, your goals, things like that, we are going to assume you want to improve your body composition, which means you are strength training, and you either are trying to gain muscle or lose fat. So I'm gonna give you a nice wide range here of 0.7 to 1.2 grams of protein per pound of target bodyweight sets a very large range. I would say one is a good rule of thumb, one gram per pound, and that could apply both to gaining and losing phases. Generally you need even more protein while you're losing, which is interesting, because it's harder to get more protein while you're while you're losing or cutting, you know, while you're cutting weight. But it helps us to tidy as I mentioned before, and it also helps with muscle maintenance. So if you can get that up in that one 1.1 1.2 range, while you're cutting, I would strongly encourage it, if you're, if you're living on very tight calories, like down in the, you know, 1615 1200 calorie range, you're gonna have to give up some of that protein just to get enough fat and carbs. Right, we understand that. So when I say target bodyweight, I mean, where are you trying to get to, so your ideal body weight, so to speak. So if you're 250, you're trying to get to 200 200 your target, if you're 150, and you're trying to gain to 181 80 is your target. So that kind of scales it toward the direction you want to go. Now, if you're significantly overweight, if you're up in the 300 range or higher, I would, I would, again, use your target bodyweight, even if it's significantly away from your current weight. So like if you weighed 350. And you ultimately, you know, maybe a year and a half, two years from now, I want to be down at 200. Go with the 200 for the protein, it looks so keep you in the ballpark. So that's total protein. And that is honestly the most important thing. And if you stop right there, and just work to get to that by tracking your food, and starting to make adjustments just on your own, literally just playing with it and having fun and figuring out how to do this. And you get there. That is like 90% of the game. But then your question is, well, how do I do all that? Because that's where I struggle. I just asked this question recently in our Facebook group, you know, or I think it was on my personal feed. Like what, what's the biggest struggle with protein and most people said, it's like, getting the right sources of protein and consuming enough. So they know they need to consume enough but getting the sources is hard. So let's talk about that. We definitely want to consume efficient sources. So these will be quote unquote, high quality protein sources, usually ones that provide all all nine essential amino acids, right? That would be animal based foods like meat, poultry, fish, eggs, dairy, but also plant based foods when they're mixed. No, when they're combined together. Everything from soy, yes, I'm gonna throw it out there soy, believe it or not quinoa, buckwheat, hemp seeds, all the grains that are in there that are high in protein, legumes. And then of course, you can combine these to get the essential amino acids. If you are an omnivore just include a lot of these things on a regular basis. And you're good. All right. You can get creative, right, you can add beans or lentils, to soups to stews, you can add tofu or tempeh as a meat substitute in a stir fry, if you don't eat meat, all these little things, you can get creative. Okay. So that's that's the second thing is, you know what sources of food and it's basically anything that's high quality, because what you don't want to be doing is eating a bunch of peanut butter to get your protein, because that's mostly fat, right. And I'm actually going to cover a list of foods in a moment here. So stay tuned for that. The next thing is we want to start optimizing to the next level, it's distributing your protein evenly throughout the day. Okay, now, again, if you just strive to get total protein, and you're not there yet, focus on that and forget the rest, do your best and forget the rest, okay, and then work on the distribution of protein. So what we want to do there is distributed evenly throughout the day. And the idea here is to optimize muscle protein synthesis, present muscle prevent muscle breakdown, they go hand in hand, try to aim for at least 20 grams of protein per meal or snack with a minimum of three meals or snacks per day. For most people, this is going to look like four or five, or one or two of those snacks are going to be purely protein or a protein shake. So we're talking, you know, hard boiled eggs could work, but they have some fat, Greek yogurt and cottage cheese are two of my favorites. Nuts and seeds could work. But again, they have fat, jerky, you know, anything that has whey protein, or anything, it has a lot of protein in it, even protein bars occasionally, if you have to rely on those, okay, I'm not I'm not hard and fast on this. You can adjust your protein based on your training schedule, so that on your training days you consume the protein before and after your workout rather than or more of it before and after your workout rather than necessarily, quote unquote, evenly throughout the day. So your meal plan would look like you know a bunch of protein before and after. And that might be up to half your protein for the day. And then two or three more meals or snacks with protein. And if you have enough protein at like four of your meals and you have a fifth meal, well that fifth meal made doesn't have to have protein, right? You could add it could be a carb based meal or whatever, as long as you're trying to stick within your calories. Okay, so then when we talk about this, most people say well, I can't get all that protein from whole food sources. Now I would say that's, that's a that's a subjective thing, of course, but it's hard for a lot of people. Definitely hard for a lot of people, partly because of actually feeling too full from all the protein. And partly from the logistics of just having to make all this meat or dairy or whatever. Or maybe you just get tired of eating the same thing. So yes, it is okay to supplement your diet with whey protein. If you have trouble meeting your needs and weight, I would just go with way, just the purest way you can find, you can get pure whey protein or you can get them flavored from a company like first form, use a link in my show notes. They're super high quality, minimally processed. There's other companies like optimal nutrition, whatever works for you and that you're comfortable with, go for whey. Casein Protein could work as well just digest lower egg, protein, beef, protein. And then if you're vegan, there's like the vegan powder from first form is based on pea and rice, you can get various blends of vegan protein powders. The reason we all like whey is it is a fast digesting protein, it can increase your blood amino acid levels very quickly to stimulate muscle protein synthesis. And it has all the amino acids in a very pure, efficient way for the calories you consume. So I like I personally often have whey protein before and after my workout, in addition to my whole foods, just because I need like 180 to 200 grams of protein. So that gets me started for the day. But you can also add protein powder to your smoothies to your yogurt to your oatmeal, all sorts of creative recipes out there to add protein power powder to your diet. The next thing is I want you to avoid falling for any fad diets that suggest a very high or very low protein intake, and eliminates other important sources of nutrition. It just just just as a blanket rule of thumb is don't have don't follow a diet that has rules that cut stuff out. Okay? Even if you know protein, you want your protein to be high. Don't just seek out a high protein quote unquote diet that then starts to cut other things out. We want a flexible approach. We want to enjoy a variety of foods, we don't want to have strict rules and restrictions. There are so many protein sources available. You may not be aware of a lot of them. So this is your moment right now listening to his podcasts and take that action, like just go to Google or ask ask me ask somebody on a forum online. Like, you know, I like this. I don't like this, you know, I'm looking for quick, quick to go snack. But what would you recommend and you'll get so many responses. And don't feel like you have to consume specific things like if you don't eat meat or you don't eat eggs, or seafood or dairy. But I would encourage you to try if you've if you're just picky, and you didn't like them before, I would encourage you to try I would encourage you to change the way you prepare them to try them raw vs cooked to try different versions of things. Like when I hear people say I don't like fish. I'm like, well, which fish because Mahi Mahi, salmon, tuna and cod all tastes completely different. You know, Mahi Ma he tastes almost like chicken. Right? Tuna is well Tuna has its own unique tastes right? The white fish are pretty bland and kind of fishy. Salmon is a lot of people like salmon. It's got that because it's fattier. Right. So anyway, I'm going on and on about foods. But I think they're important because this is where a lot of people get stuck. Now when you're when you're in fat loss, you have to make some trade offs because of the limited calories. So this is where to get your protein you want to keep it as lean as possible for the protein sources themselves. Right. So you want to look for sources that are low primarily in fat, that's usually where the extra calories come from, such that the percentage calories from protein are as high as possible. So an example would be having top sirloin instead of ribeye or having 93% ground beef instead of 80% ground beef or having a white fish instead of salmon or having low or nonfat Greek yogurt or cottage cheese instead of the full fat variety. Having skim milk mozzarella instead of cheddar cheese, I can go on and on but you get the you get the idea. Now there are there are foods that are kind of in the middle that are really good nutritionally, and they also meet other needs that you have for your macros like your carbs. So for example, certain grains like quinoa, brown rice, or legumes like black beans are a decent amount of protein but they also have carbs and some have a little fat too. But you may need the carbs so you kind of have to balance it out. Whereas the you know, chicken breast of core chicken and turkey breasts fat free yogurt, shrimp, egg whites, whey protein are gonna be almost almost all protein. And on the other hand, I mentioned peanut butter, but really like when I ask somebody if you protein they say I like cheese I'm like cheese I don't even count as a protein. It's a fat with a little bit of protein. Same thing for like whole milk and full fat cottage cheese. They taste great but you are going to pay for the calories in terms of fat some avocado, almonds kind of fall in that category as well, like, you want to be sparing with those when you're in fat loss, but they're delicious and nice sources of fat. But they're not protein sources. Even bread, like whole wheat bread, if you are having a sandwich and you just want to have bread, and you're good with the carbs, as part of your macros, it has decent amount of protein, right? But it's not just a protein source. So those are kind of some examples. Some people ask me about like chickpeas and a mommy. I mean, any of those things from plants are generally in the middle, they have some protein, but they also come with some carbs. So you kind of have to get educated in that in that realm. Okay, I think I think that covers it. I think that's everything I wanted to cover about protein today. I thought it might take a whole hour, but I think it's less than that. So it's a lot of information. But I hope it helps you get closer to your goals and dialing in your nutrition, because protein is probably the most important to figure out in this whole the Tetris with the macros. And honestly, that's why I created this podcast so you can get that information so you can upgrade your education, and your ability to take that action right now with this information. Now, if you still have questions about how to apply any of these protein strategies to your individual situation, I would love to get to know you better, I would love to understand what drives you to improve your health to get stronger to improve your physique. And the best way to do that is getting on the phone with me, I have a link in my show notes to my calendar so you can schedule a free results breakthrough session with me. Now you should be able to find a few slots open over the next week or so. So reserve a spot as soon as you can. And we can hop on a zoom call, ask the questions about what's holding you back right now. Whether it's the education, motivation, something else, and I will give you a clear strategy on how to get from here to where you want to go. Again, just click the link in my show notes for the free call. I'll help you figure out how to dial in your protein if that's the challenge, or anything else to get results faster and easier if you've been spinning your wheels. Okay, our next episode 92 is an interview with Dr. Bill Campbell who I mentioned earlier from his research review. And we are going to be covering five very important topics related to improving your body composition to get the physique you want, including how consuming highly processed foods impacts your goals. Can a rapid fat loss phase be effective, so aggressive fat loss, why weight plateaus occur and how to break them, which is more important for your physique training or nutrition and the use of diet breaks and refeeds to optimize your physique. So go ahead and follow or subscribe to the podcast so you don't miss that episode. Subscribing also helps others find the show. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong