Have you heard the claim that you should eat less protein and you'll live longer? Honestly, I couldn't believe it when I first heard this. And even if it did tack on a couple of years, which is highly doubtful based on the science, a low protein diet will destroy your quality of life and your health span. In those years you have left, assuming it doesn't kill you first. And that's enough for me to call it dangerous and put together this episode. So the low protein zealots don't send you in the wrong direction. Stick around. As we get to the bottom of the low protein hypothesis. One of the fresh new claims in the fitness industry to watch out for put on your skepticism hats as we dive into the dangers of low protein for longevity. Welcome to the Wits & Weights podcast. I'm your host Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits & Weights community Welcome to another solo episode of the Wits & Weights podcast. In our last episode 137 Unlock abundance in fitness and every other aspect of life with Rebecca Whitman. Rebecca shared her philosophy of the Seven Pillars of abundance challenging us to rethink how we balance our lives, with an emphasis on physical abundance, and specific tips on harnessing your full potential. Today for episode 138 The dangers of low protein for longevity, we are debunking the low protein hypothesis or myth hitting the circuit that says if you want to live longer, you need to eat a low protein diet. You're either shaking your head in shock right now, or curious whether this claim has any merit whatsoever. Either way, today you're going to learn exactly what these arguments are, whether a low protein diet has any merit and the optimal level and sources of protein if you want not just a longer lifespan, but a longer health span. Now before we do this, I do want to share just one of the recent five star reviews today of this podcast that is relevant not just today's episode, but to the mission of the show, and it's from big jags. Very helpful and informative. This podcast is both helpful and informative because he uses science and experience to help you build both build muscle and lift properly, while maintaining a balanced and reasonable diet. And honestly I couldn't have said it better. myself a combination of science and experience. That's what we call evidence right. And building muscle lifting properly and maintaining a reasonable diet. That's really what it's about. So thank you big Jags for that review. And anybody anyone listening. One of the best things ways you could support the show is to do a five star rating and review on Apple or Spotify. Apple's the only platform where you can write in your review and that is very helpful when others are looking for the show. A good show to watch in the nutrition category and really any category and health and fitness. So I would appreciate if you go pause the episode and write a review on Apple, a five star review if you think it is deserved. All right. Let's put on our skeptic hats together, shall we? In today's topic, the dangers of low protein for longevity. Now I didn't believe it until I saw some let's just say not very well muscled fit flu answers. Sorry to be cruel maybe that's as mean as I get on the show, but look them up for yourself. I won't give them a platform by naming them here. But these these fit fluid answers the so called doctors, you know anyone with an MD in their name that uses that as a I'm gonna call it logical fallacy to to assume that they are an expert. They're making the claim that too much protein is a bad thing for older adults. Despite decades upon decades of research that paints a far more, I was gonna say nuanced picture, but I think it's actually a very clear picture about protein proteins effects on longevity. So I will state this unequivocally and with complete confidence, especially knowing how much it has helped clients of all ages of mine, but especially those over 40 and beyond. Protein is essential for muscle maintenance, immune function and overall health. Furthermore, as we age, protein needs actually increase because we want to prevent muscle loss what we call sarcopenia and copious researchers emphasize the importance of adequate protein intake in older adults for maintaining muscle mass and function, low muscle mass as we age, I am convinced at this point, it's probably the number one risk factor for injury and death because the leading cause of death and people over 75 is falling. We live in a world of physical hazards of other humans like our grandkids when we want to play With and carry. I mean, I don't have grandkids, I have daughters. But same ideas as we age, we want to be able to interact with people in a physical way. They need to haul large objects around whether we're grocery shopping, whether you're helping someone move, going on vacation, doing work around the house, working with your hands, all the things we want to do as humans into old age, simply avoiding joint pain and injury. So muscle is arguably far more important than weight management, in the long run, even for obesity as a cure for obesity, just having more muscle, if we're going to stay fit and avoid metabolic disease. So I'm very passionate about this because any message that says the other the opposite. In fact, going to an extreme like many fad diets have over the years of cutting something out or lowering it significantly, must be questioned on its face, the burden of proof is on them. When we look closely at the science, higher protein still appears clearly beneficial, not detrimental in any way for long term health, no matter your age, and even more so as you age. And there are some major problems with these low protein claims. In what is just an ever growing fringe, one of the new of many fringes of the fitness industry, and one of the message missions of the show is to debunk those claims. So let's get into it. What are the low protein arguments? Some researchers argue that excessive protein increases oxidative stress, inflammation, insulin resistance, and some other mechanisms that accelerate aging. And they often cite studies where rodents are fed isolated protein or amino amino acids, and they just live a shorter lifespan. Serious question for you, dear listener? Are you a rat in a laboratory whose diet consists solely of isolated casein protein? No. Now I know that's a that's a bait, a bait type question. Right? It's more sarcasm than anything. But the problem with these rodents studies are that we have studies and observations of longer living primate species. And I think humans are closer to primates, right, because we are primates than rats that show the opposite effect, you know, including studies in humans themselves, increased lifespan higher, but you know, increased lifespan associated with higher chronic protein feeding. And so this suggests pretty strongly that proteins effects likely depend on your overall diet composition, right, you're not just eating amino acids in high amounts while trapped in a cage. And it may differ between mammalian species. And this is actually a very common roadblock that we run into when we try to extrapolate the results of studies on rodents to everyday life as a human. Now, either that, or the researchers running these experiments, don't want those rats, or those mice to get too jacked and overpower them in the lab. And I guess that theory is equally plausible. So you pick the one you want. Alright? Conversely, there are studies like condo at all, which released just this year by this year. I mean, actually, last year when this episode is coming down to in 2023, which were also done on mice using what they call isocaloric, which is equivalent calorie diets at different percentages of protein, I think it was 1525 35 45% of calories. And they showed that intakes of 25 and 30%, or I'm sorry, 25 and 35% are associated with improved metabolic health into old age. And if you were to extrapolate that to human diet, it's right in the ballpark of the recommendations, we often talk about like point A to point one grams per pound, when you're eating, say 2000 calories, and you're an average sized person is going to put you around 2530 35% of your calories being protein. Now those that percentage goes up during fat loss. But fat loss is a short term period, if you're doing it right, it's at most a few months out of the year. And it puts it a little bit less if your calories are higher if you're in a gaining phase. But it's in the range. It's nowhere near what the low protein advocates are talking about. So go figure, right like whether you want to believe the rat studies or or extrapolate from them or not even they have disagreements. Okay, the other big area for the low protein advocates is a very narrow focus on certain pathways like mTOR and IGF one signaling and they attribute the harm from protein to activating these pathways. The problem here is that they ignore that protein supports many other vital health pathways as well. And proteins ability to build to repair to maintain muscle mass and avoid the significant longevity impeding declines that come with that, such as frailty, and weakness in older age, that's a big problem. Like if you don't think of everything in context and you just sit you know, pull out this one, these one or two pathways. So when you assess the entire body of current research, restricting protein intake does not To appear to provide healthy longevity in humans, right? And note the keyword they're healthy. You know, would you rather live a few extra years being sickly and weak, or live a normal robust lifespan, as a strong functioning rambunctious human who has their wits about them, see what I did there, until the day the Grim Reaper calls, that's where I want to be. Right? Now, when assessing the entire body of research, a low protein diet provides very little benefit at all to aging. And here's the worst thing, it can be downright harmful. So now I want to flip it around and say, Well, what are the benefits of higher protein because we have tons of data that show us the benefits of high protein. And by high protein, I really mean a sufficient amount of protein for building muscle and maintaining a healthy lifestyle that just happens to be higher and sometimes much higher than what the average person consumes. And I actually just got my hair cut today, my Barbara was talking about, you know, you know, a lot of people should just be eating a balanced diet, right, we just want a balanced diet. And I said, you know, I agree, what I would challenge about that is what people think of as balanced. Because I think in the modern, especially Western society, everything is so skewed by the food availability and the high, you know, processed food consumption diet, and we don't really understand what balance means. And so when I tell you to eat 150 grams of protein a day, and you're currently eating 50, and you're like, there's no way I can get 150, that's crazy, don't we want to eat a balanced diet, once you've made that shift and realize how it all plays together with the fats and the carbs and the the nutrients and the fiber and everything else, you realize that it is quite balanced, when protein is making up 25% of your calories, that doesn't seem imbalanced. To be honest, that seems pretty reasonable. For most people, protein makes up like 10% of their diet. To me that's imbalanced. So anyway, just that was a side tangent that I think is important. When we say higher protein, right, but way higher than these low protein advocates are talking about. So contrary to whatever outdated dogma they might be referring to, like, you know, it's gonna mess up your liver or something, or kidneys, I'm sorry, increased protein intake, we know improves numerous biomarkers associated with longevity and disease prevention in humans. So for example, research shows higher protein enhances insulin sensitivity, not the other way is we know this, because we also know that it enables more muscle mass. And guess what that increases insulin sensitivity. It enhances blood sugar regulation, blood pressure, your lipid profiles, right, your cholesterol, inflammation status, all of these, which you're probably aware of are crucial for metabolic and cardiovascular health. So higher intakes of protein, whether it's leucine rich animal protein sources, or a diverse plant based diet, as long as it's full of the essential amino acids, and you get enough protein, help preserve muscle mass and strength as we get older. And then this of course, minimizes the risk of sarcopenia. That muscle wasting that happens. We all know older folks, in fact, is the majority of older folks walking around, stooped over weak prone to a fall prone to breaking something, being in the hospital going on a bunch of drugs, getting pneumonia, I hate to paint that picture, but it's reality. And it's all because of muscle mass, it's all comes down to muscle mass. I mean, that's it sarcopenia sarcopenia, and osteopenia are kind of tied together osteopenia or osteoporosis, the loss of bone density, they're all tied together to a lack of strength training a lack of protein. Alright, so preserving more metabolically active muscle clearly outweighs any claim of minor oxidative damage from these pathways, you know from protein metabolism, that are very specious ly claimed in these from these studies. Conversely, having low muscle mass, as I just alluded to dramatically increases your odds of osteoporosis, frailty falls, remember the leading cause of death for those over 75 is falling, injury, and even your mental health, anxiety and depression. There's a correlation between lower muscle mass and higher anxiety and depression, whether it's a direct cause or a proximal cause because of all the terrible things that now happen in your life and your health because you don't have muscle mass. And that leads to anxiety, depression, whatever the reason, there's a very close correlation. Now my 65 year old clients, okay, and I work with people from 30s to their 60s Generally, my 65 year old clients who probably deadlift more than the strongest of these low protein researchers. Sorry, I know that's a low blow but I can't help myself today because it's probably true. If just look them up, please. They're not very well muscle. I think I mentioned that before. As these 65 year old clients are some of the most vibrant, capable, active alive individuals I've ever seen. They are building new muscle tissue for the first time in decades. And by the way, you can build muscle to pretty much the day you die, but there's recent research that shows in your 80s and 90s As you can build new muscle tissue, and that would not be possible without adequate protein, and the low protein level that these researchers are arguing for, is not going to cut it. Again, I would argue that these direct health benefits outweigh any claim oxidative changes or activation of signaling pathways. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this episode of Wits & Weights, I started Wits & Weights to help people who want to build muscle lose fat and actually look like they lift. I've noticed that when people improve their strength and physique, they not only look and feel better, they transform other areas of their life, their health, their mental resilience and their confidence in everything they do. And since you're listening to this podcast, I assume you want the same things the same success, whether you recently started lifting, or you've been at this for a while and want to optimize and reach a new level of success. Either way, my one on one coaching focused on engineering your physique and body composition is for you. If you want expert guidance and want to get results faster, easier, and with fewer frustrations along the way to actually look like you lift, go to wits & weights.com, and click on coaching, or use the link in my show notes to apply today. I'll ask you a few short questions to decide if we're a good fit. If we are, we'll get you started this week. Now back to the show. Now beyond being just a building block of tissue, protein provides many other essential benefits for health. higher intake supports immune function, antioxidant capacity, bone density, skin integrity, we many of you know the association between proteins and skin, right? It's why people take like to consume Collagen For Skin Health, hormone balance, enzyme production, neurotransmitters, gut microbiome diversity, without adequate protein over time, age related declines in all of these systems accelerate, why would you want to do that to yourself? Research suggests that the older we get, the more protein we may need. And fact approaching the one gram per pound of high quality protein daily. So when you hear about the recommendations for like point seven or point six to one gram per pound, and I always tell you, like just aim for the one you know, it's a little bit of a stretch goal for most people, if you get point eight or point seven, you'll be fine. But the older you get the the closer you actually may want to be to that one gram per pound. Because your efficiency and nutrient utilization and muscle protein synthesis ability declines, right. And so now you're trying to get more, or you're trying to, you get less from the same amount. So you need more of that protein to get what you got when you were younger. Now, omnivores versus vegans versus vegetarians, omnivores are going to have an easier time of this, right of getting a high quality protein and get getting enough of it because of the margin of error, you know, got animal sources, which just make it easy to get your protein, vegetarians who eat dairy and or eggs. Those can be a big source of protein along with plants. And then vegans have to just be very smart about their food selection, and probably have supplementation as well, to ensure the inclusion of all the essential amino acids and you know, good nutrient diversity. What are the benefits, okay, if you listen to this podcast, is there's two other reasons why I like my clients to increase their protein as soon as possible. The first one is satiety, we know that protein has a higher thermic effect of feeding, so burns a few more calories, but it also makes you fuller. So it's a nice benefit in when we're trying to regulate our hunger signals and change the volume of food we eat and the calories we eat. And number two, food quality and selection. You've heard me say this before, maybe not maybe if you're new to the show, if you go to the grocery store, and I tell you to buy protein dominant foods, even have a very hard time buying enough protein if you stick to the middle aisles where all the packaged foods are, you know, other than maybe maybe beans, right and some of the plant foods that have protein, but if you really want a lot of protein, you're gonna go out around the edges, you know, to the the animal sources to the dairy, to the the fresh fat produce, and so on to get your protein meat, meaning if I asked you to greatly increase your protein from say, 50 to 150 grams, you're gonna start eating more whole foods, you're going to take an additive approach to doing that you're not going to be thinking, Well, I'm on a diet. So I need to cut things out, you're gonna think, oh, I want to get more protein, because it's good for my muscle mass on my health and let me figure out how to do that. Okay, so that's the benefits of protein. If you needed to know that at all right? Preaching to the choir, perhaps here. The other piece of this is supplementation. I just want to address briefly, because some researchers worry that there's potential harm specifically from excessive amino acid or protein supplementation and you might say like, okay, maybe that's closer to these mice studies, where they're being fed like pure amino acids. But here's the thing eating whole food protein sources As part of a balanced diet does not carry anywhere near what if there were risks of pure amino acids? Right? Recall again, these key studies and little protein research use rodents fed pure amino acids. Now regardless, if you consume protein from primarily Whole Foods, you will get a balanced diet and nutrition that regulates the absorption of those nutrients properly. And guess what? Protein powders are also technically a whole food in this context, if you think of like whey protein, or pea and rice protein, because they're just a filtered ground up version of a food, right from their for milk, or they're from plants. They're not just amino acids right? Now, something like essential amino acids, or branched chain amino acids bought as a powder form for a pre workout. For example, when you feed, track, train fasted, those are pure amino acids, but you are not consuming very much of those at all, you know, a few grams, like 510 grams of those, you're not consuming hundreds of grams, or whatever it would take to match what these mice are fit. So yeah, having now having said that, we talked about protein powders, just real quick caveat on that, I still think it's a good idea to limit those to like no more than a third of your daily protein at most. If you're using them on a regular basis. Like for some people it may be, it may be a big portion of your daily routine, because you're just trying to get the protein. But then you want to learn that skill and develop those habits of okay, how do I get more and more protein from food? Right? I personally take one or two whey protein shakes every single day. And it probably comprises 15 or 20% of my protein, right? It's not, it's a small amount. It's it's meaningful, but it's not huge. Regardless, it's still from a whole food. So part of the matrix, let's say. Now, thinking of protein in that context of food, and not just as amino acids is important here, because food regulates absorption. And it combines or balances those amino acids with other compounds, other beneficial compounds, many of which we don't even track or label as part of like in the food industry, right? Well, we have our nutrition labels, and we identify ingredients and things like that. Lots of plants have helpful compounds that are just, you don't realize they exist, because we don't talk about them. They're not labeled as micronutrients. They're not put on ingredient, ingredients and on packaging. And yet without the whole food itself, you wouldn't get that compound. It's the same reason I prefer, you know, eating an orange to drinking orange juice or eating an apple to drinking apple juice, or eating vegetables instead of taking greens powders, so that you get all those other compounds. And that's why I also prefer a focus on nutrient quality, nutrient density, you know, eating both plant and animal proteins unless you're vegan or vegetarian, and fiber, right. If you think of all these in your diet, as opposed to just hitting macros, you know that you end up consuming a broad and deep food matrix, think of it as a matrix, like a whole bunch of food combining together to give you this beautiful potpourri of nutrients and compounds. So you'll not only get plenty of protein, but you're also going to support your health that way. And if we're going to get concrete about it, think lean meats, fish, eggs, dairy, beans, lentils, soy nuts, seeds, right, they all contain protein, grains, of course, oats, and quinoa, and, and all of those. So, you know, don't buy into the plant bashing in the carnivore crowd, right, such as the the claim of low protein, digestibility, and plants. And all of that, right, these are far, far outweighed by the many other benefits of plants. Although I still prefer they be part of an omnivorous diet, it's going to make it easier to get what you want and need, but not necessarily, let's just say, also, anytime you cut things out, you're just limiting the number of foods and recipes that you can choose from. And that inhibits flexibility and adherence to your diet. Right? Also the wonderful many ways and flavors to cook things. And then the fiber, the nutrients or compounds that are in plants. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent about food selection and quality and diet. But I think that's important. And if you're eating that way, and you have sufficient protein, you're golden. Okay. So when we analyze the full body of evidence, a low protein intake clearly and unequivocally worsens many health markers and accelerates aging. I don't see how you can make the argument otherwise, I just don't see it. And I know there's books been written on the topics. Please put your skeptic hat on. Okay, higher protein intake. We know from very well supported research. It preserves muscle it preserves function, resilience, your health, biomarkers, your quality of life into old age, with no clear upper limit of consumption from whole food sources, right? Unless you have a pre existing condition that precludes high protein intake, which is a very small percentage of population. You know who you are. I'm not speaking to you and I'm not a medical doctor. are okay, a daily protein intake of point seven to one gram per pound is optimal for supporting an active lifestyle for individuals who resistance train regularly. And I hope that's you. And if it's not you, if you're listening to you don't resistance train, what are you waiting for? You got to get on that on the on the resistance or resistance train train, okay? You guys are shaking your head. I'm corny sometimes, and I love it. So an activity that everyone should be doing, no matter who you are, until the day you die, is resistance training in some form or another. So consume a high quality omnivorous diet, you know, unless you're restricting your diet on purpose to vegetarian or vegan diet, with an emphasis on whole foods. Pay extra attention, if you know you have to restrict something. So that you get the quantity that you need, you know, high protein throughout your life should maximize your healthspan to match your lifespan, because of how powerful it is and keeping you strong and metabolically flexible. And I have no problem saying that. And anybody who listens to this, who's not eating enough protein, and they take it as their mission to get enough, because of this episode, I'm thrilled, I'm thrilled because I know how much healthier you're gonna be. And you're gonna be able to pack on more muscle and preserve the muscle you have. I personally would rather live a very high quality life by building a sustaining strength and muscle given muscles importance and healthspan so that I can look I can feel I can function my best well into my 80s and 90s. What about you? Is that what you want? Muscle is the answer. Muscle is the answer. And you can't do that without adequate protein. All right. As always, if you need some guidance on your training, on your nutrition on your protein sources, on just how the heck to make this all work. Because you want to get stronger, you want to build muscle, you want to improve your body composition, composition, or you want to lose 20 to 60 pounds of fat in about a six month period, which is a reasonable amount of time to do it the right way. And sustainably. I'm always happy to hop on a call with you. I call it a results breakthrough session. But who cares what it's called, it's a free 30 minute call. Where we just go over the plan we figure out the two or three things holding you back what actions you can take, not a sales pitch, not a sales call in any way. Just go to with go to wits & weights.com and click free call or use the link in my show notes. Again for 30 minutes, results breakthrough session, go to wits & weights.com, click free call or use the link in my show notes. Okay, in our next episode 139 Female strength resistance training hormones and muscle growth with Lauren Kalonzo sample from the mass Research Review. Lauren will be giving you insights into the latest research and strategies on female specific topics. Although men, you are going to love this episode as well, especially if you know women who you support and you want to understand women or you coach them or whatever. And we're gonna go over topics like the menstrual cycle and strength training, which might surprise you satellite cells and muscle growth. What the heck are those? Well, you gotta tune in to find out low energy availability machines versus free weights and functional training. Now check this out. It will also be the very first guest interview on this podcast where my guest and I so that's Lauren and I recorded special bonus content available only to subscribers of my email list. In the bonus video, I asked Lauren for her advice on strength training with machines than dumbbells, and barbells. And she shared exactly how to do that very simply over 10 minutes. She gave you step by step specific tips and things to do in the gym to do that. So if you want that bonus content in your inbox, go to wits & weights.com/bonus to sign up. Now if you're already on my list, which I'm calling the insider's list now, totally free of course, you'll receive a link soon after the episode comes out. It'll be a special email just with that information in it and a link to the unlisted video for you to check out. Again, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus to sign up ahead of time so you make sure to get it and or you can click the link in the show notes, wits& weights.com/bonus, or the link in the show notes. As always, stay strong. And I'll talk to you next time here on the Wits & Weights podcast. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong