Megan Dahlman: 0:00

Don't judge something in the first three weeks, please. Like just give it time to settle in and work for you. And then let's make sure that by three weeks you're starting to feel your body improve. And then around three months, we should be seeing some visible changes. It's probably not going to be this giant change. We're all about no quick fixes around here. But that's a really good benchmark to aim for.

Philip Pape: 0:29

Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits& Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I'm joined by fitness expert Megan Dolman, who in her 17 years of training professionally has become the sought after trainer for women over 40 who want to feel their physical best for years to come. I brought her on the show to tackle the fun and often frustrating topic of belly fat, especially in women over 40 will separate fact from fiction, you'll learn about the physiological and hormonal changes that affect belly fat. And Megan will share four perhaps surprising but as always evidence based strategies for reducing belly fat. Megan's insights will give you more confidence in tackling that mid life, which he calls fluffin. Top, whether you're looking to enhance your health or physique, or better understand your body with a degree in Exercise Science. And as a Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist. Megan has an uncanny ability for taking complicated aspects about your body, and making them simple, doable, and actually sustainable. We like that word here sustainable. Through her top 1% podcast, self care simplified, and online training programs and courses. She genuinely cares about every woman she interacts with, and coaches with a unique attention to detail, grace and patience. Ask any of your clients and they'll say that Megan isn't just an outstanding trader. But she's a phenomenal coach that truly cares. Megan's mission is to help every woman no matter their age, feel strong, pain free and confident in all aspects of her body. Megan, it is a pleasure to have you on the show. Hello,

Megan Dahlman: 2:25

thank you. What an introduction. Excited to be here.

Philip Pape: 2:30

That's the thing we do here, Megan, you know, I've been following your work for a bit now. And I loved immediately what I was hearing. And what I was hearing was that you emphasize strength training, and building muscle and a lot of the evidence based stuff that we talked about. But it's also I'll say, nuanced and accessible at the same time, especially for women who are just getting started, you know, you, you kind of take them along for the journey of it's okay, don't stress, you know, one step at a time. Tell us about your personal philosophy, your mission to help women get strong, pain free and confident.

Megan Dahlman: 3:03

Yeah, you know, I got my start as an athletic performance specialist. So training like high level athletes, and I always thought that that was so impressive, you know, what a cool thing to have on your resume to be like an Olympic trainer. And it was fun but but how it kind of evolved to who I work with now of primarily 40 plus year old women is I would train athletes, many of them would be young, that their parents would be in the wings watching and they'd be like, Wait a second. Can I work with you like that looks way more fun and effective. Then the Zumba class. I'm going to the My Jazzercise class, you know. And so it started evolving to training adults, kind of the general population of people who are like I really want to move and operate and work like an athlete. Because when it comes down to it, that is how our bodies were created and designed to move period. And so it's fun to bring things from this athletic world, into the average individual and show them how amazing their body can operate. When we focus on those things that help you optimize the way that your body moves, the way your body functions on a daily life on a daily basis. It's so exciting. And I think unfortunately, in the fitness industry, there's this giant chasm between trainers and people who are really fit and athletic. Who this is their life. They love it, they live it, they breathe it like they just know a lot about it. And unfortunately, the large majority of the population where fitness good nutrition, taking care of your body is a foreign concept and really hard to do. And so I keep seeing that gap getting wider between people who are deep into the research and real into it and I care about, I don't care what the study say I just, I want to be able to go through the day and not have my knees hurt. And so that's really my mission is to kind of fill in the gap and be I will, I will bring the evidence based work to you, I'll meet you where you are, I won't bog you down, I won't overwhelm you, I'll keep it as simple as possible. And in the long run, that's gonna make it doable and sustainable and get you excited to keep going. So that's really the philosophy behind and my mission behind everything I do. I think the

Philip Pape: 5:36

way you explain all that was the most succinct, direct way that I've ever heard for what many of us are trying to do seriously. I mean, I've interviewed a lot of people on this show, but a few things that stood out to me first, having trained athletes, and then the general population saying, I want to be trained like that right there. That's great evidence that there is a gap and made me wonder, you know, why is that right? And maybe we could explore that a little more. But you also said it's the way we're intended to move. And the word athlete as an identity is very important to people. I found working with clients, men and women, but especially women, when we use that word, I'm like, you are an athlete like, No, I'm not. Yes, you are. And look how far we've come using the principles of an athlete of training and progression and performance and fueling yourself all these positive things that you want to build and not, you know, do the restriction and all the other things that the industry talks about. And then you said there's still a giant chasm, and it's getting bigger. So let's just explore that for a second. I know, we'll get into the topic, but why is it getting bigger? Why is the evidence based stuff not as accessible as it needs to be? Well, I think

Megan Dahlman: 6:40

two things are happening right now. I think we have the people who are interested in health are starting to really dig deep. We're getting more and more studies that are coming out all the time. We're starting to get this whole like section of the population that's really interested in like biohacking methods and, you know, kind of those little final one to 2% tweaks. And that starts to be really noisy, especially in the social media space because it catches a lot of attention. And then at the same time, we have the opposite end of the spectrum where the general population America is getting unhealthier and unhealthier. And I think the obesity rates right now in America is staggering. I think we're pushing 50% not just being overweight, but literally obesity. And so these two things are happening. And it's just this, like people are getting the Healthy People are getting so dialed in healthy, like it's almost obsessive. And the unhealthy people are getting even unhealthier. And so there's such a big gap that nobody's like, when the unhealthy people are looking at what you need to do healthy to be healthier. That's what they're seeing. They're seeing the biohackers that are working on that final 1% tweak, like cold plunging is not going to solve my health issue.

Philip Pape: 8:08

Red light therapy, right. And

Megan Dahlman: 8:10

it's like, and so then they try those biohacking things. And it's like, Well, that didn't work. Because that was so extreme and such this giant leap from where their life looks like today. You know what I mean?

Philip Pape: 8:24

Yeah, no, that's a great way to put it. I think of food in that context as well, where you're not even eating whole foods or enough protein, and you're worried about grass fed beef, wagyu, beef, whatever it's like, just just get there from where you are today. And it'll be a huge improvement a step change. Okay, so now one of the things that we're going to talk about today, which is belly fat, has has been in the space for a long time as one of those topics that I don't know, maybe it could be click Beatty, or associated with the, the the training programs related to you know, crunches and all sorts of crazy 1% solutions that you just talked about. Yeah, so we want to take a nuanced approach based on the evidence, but also that's accessible to everyone listening. Before we do, why is this even a topic?

Megan Dahlman: 9:11

I think because it is so as statically annoying, for lack of a better term. There's obviously all of the health related issues with carrying excess body fat around your midsection. We know that having what's called visceral fat, especially the fat that is kind of intertwined around your organs, that is extremely unhealthy for your body, your chances of having heart disease and diabetes like they just go through the roof and all of these metabolic syndromes when you have visceral fat, that type of fat that just gets lodged inside of your gut and inside of your torso. It's it's more dangerous than the kind of fat that's more on your limbs. However it in addition into that, I have to say that the belly fat this, this excess fat around the midsection, especially women, but I think men too, we have always had this discomfort with the way that our midsection looks. There's this like obsession with having a nice trim, Veldt figure, you know, where we have a beautiful waist. And so anytime we feel like we're outside of that, where we feel like we're squishy or, or wide or thick around the midsection, we feel like we're not falling into the aesthetic norms of our culture. And that really aggravates us and makes us lose a lot of confidence in our body. And so whenever I'm helping coach, people through this, it's like, let's really make sure that your intentions moving forward are more based on getting you as healthy and functionally fit as possible. And then we'll let the aesthetics fall where they lie. Because I find that when people come at it from it from an angle of I just want to see my abs or I just want to look good. It's a motivation that doesn't very often points you in the wrong direction, you kind of end up feeling like willing to do whatever it takes. And that tends to lead you down an unhealthy route. So if we can be pointed in the direction of like, okay, let me approach chat, like taking care of his belly fat from it, from the healthiest aspect possible from coming about it from as, as healthy as I can and get as healthy and fit as possible, and then let the aesthetics fall, where they live, you're gonna have a much better time and and get the results you really want and without damaging your body in the process.

Philip Pape: 11:56

Yeah, that makes that makes a lot of sense. Because the athletic figure many people are going for is an outcome of many, many other things that it may not be a one to one root cause or, you know, proximal, cause. It's funny, because I've just recently recorded an episode of mine coming out soon called, why I'm getting fluffy before I get jacked. And it's a it's just a real honest conversation in my mind about my own fluffiness and belly fat as I gain weight, but I'm doing it on purpose. I know that the final outcome once I lose fat later on will reveal you're working out. But I'm not. I don't care. Because I'd rather get strong right now. And I know it'll pay off just just somewhat tangential. And from a male's perspective, we do have those insecurities as well. Yeah,

Megan Dahlman: 12:39

yeah. And it really is that mindset shift and be like, what do I really care about in the long run? Like maybe right? On the surface, I say that I really care about, you know, having a really slim figure or having visible abs. But on the in the hole, if I zoom out and say like, what do I really want for my body? Where do I want my body in five years, 10 years, 20 years, do I want to have a body that has zero back and hip pain that I can say I have extremely dense bones through my spine, I don't have to worry about disc issues or functional issues, I can be fit and active and move like an athlete well into my 70s and 80s. I'm gonna raise my hand at that all day long, and say that that is a higher priority to me, then being able to look great in a swimsuit. And I know I have to just trust that in the back of my head, me pursuing that long term outcome is also going to achieve these more surface level goals that I also have for my aesthetics, and be okay with that. And it just might take a little slower. And like you said, you might have a little fluff in the moment, when you're doing it the right way. Sometimes it it doesn't happen the way we want it to.

Philip Pape: 13:59

It's true. It depends on how much of that you want to accept during the various cycles of getting there. Everybody's everybody's body is different. genetics are different, where you lose fat first or not. Changes, you know, men versus women especially. And of course, the place that we gain fat first, and it comes off last as the place we least want it to be. And when people ask about that, usually my response is it's probably just a it's probably just booty call it catch 22 And that that's where you've been seeing it your whole life because you're prone to gaining the fat there. So let's let's talk about we do we do need to dress somewhat of the belly fat piece itself. And what causes that since we know there is a health component not just an aesthetic component, especially the hormonal changes. I want to get into that either during Peri and post menopause or just in general. Tell us about the connection.

Megan Dahlman: 14:50

So as you enter perimenopause and then in those postmenopausal years, really what's going on as your estrogen production is declining. Your razors simply not producing as much estrogen. There's other hormones involved too. Even in women, there's the progesterone and testosterone. And then also in men as as men age, there's less testosterone production. But we're kind of talking mostly about the perimenopause and menopausal belly fat. Estrogen, I like to call it the magical hormone, it does so many things in your body, it maintains muscle mass, like it keeps, it's like a little protector and shield around muscle mass loss it, it manages your hunger, it actually is an appetite suppressant and natural appetite suppressant. Estrogen actually helps provide energy and as a mood booster. So your motivation is often a lot higher during the time of the month, when you have high levels of estrogen, you're more likely to want to get out there and get after it, versus like hunker down and not really do much. Estrogen also keeps inflammation at bay, it's an anti inflammatory. So when we see of, when we look at it like that, like, okay, these are all the wonderful things that estrogen does. Now, we know on the flip side, when your body stops producing estrogen, all of these things now start to become a problem, we start to lose muscle mass, we have to work a little harder to maintain and even build muscle mass, our hunger cues start to get all out of whack, we tend to be a little bit more hungry throughout the day, we don't have as high of a mood or motivation if feels like a struggle, we don't have as much energy, we tend to be a little bit more inflamed throughout our body. So we might have some joint pain and achiness due to that inflammation, or maybe excess bloating and just discomfort, which can impact our desire to want to exercise. So all of these things can really be related to that estrogen lack of estrogen production. And then when you also have that estrogen being a little bit more dominant at any given point than progesterone, that can also be a problem, you've probably heard of estrogen dominance, where, yeah, your estrogen is declining in production, but it's also like way out of balance with the other hormones. So all of these things are just kind of like, all out of whack. And now you realize, in my 20s, and in my early 30s, all of these things were so easy, I could exercise and I could see results pretty quickly. Now we have an environment where everything is just a little bit more challenging. And it can make that belly fat situation far more challenging. And we're gonna get into, you know, what we can do for the belly fat. But all of those things that I mentioned, can all point back to an increase in fat storage around the belly region,

Philip Pape: 17:57

that alone is a fantastic thing to understand. For women, when it comes to these imbalances. What do we know the mechanism by which fat stored in the abdomen increases due to that,

Megan Dahlman: 18:07

we tend to have more of those Alpha receptors of estrogen and those sex hormones in the belly fat region. And so when your hormones are a little bit off kilter, those fat storage cells in the fat area in the belly area tend to be a little bit more sensitive, and they kind of want to hold on to that a little quicker, and release it last. So it's kind of that area. And Women also tend to have those in the tricep region. And in the thigh region, we have a lot of those receptors for that type of hormone fat distribution. So those kind of get a little bit more sensitive when your estrogen levels are not as high.

Philip Pape: 19:01

Okay, the triceps I wasn't aware of, but I could I could picture that happening in older women. You know, when you see that visually, what about is there any impact on thyroid or metabolic rate independent of the factory metabolisms affected by all the other things you mentioned? Yeah.

Megan Dahlman: 19:17

I mean, it's, it's tangential, you know, it kind of goes side by side with that. A lot of women going through perimenopause and menopause might not have thyroid issues at all. Many of them that is one of the symptoms of menopause is seeing a change in those thyroid hormone production. So that's where working with your doctor and getting those blood tests taken and seeing your thyroid hormone levels, in connection with those other hormonal levels can be really helpful. But not always. So it's yes or no. Yeah,

Philip Pape: 19:51

it's complicated. Yeah, as always, it's kind of complicated. So you posted a real recently on Instagram about four strategies for reducing belly If and of course we know how short form video is, maybe there's six maybe there's a you know, the you may have more than four and your feel free to we can add to the list. But it was about the science behind belly fat accumulation women over 40 we're talking about. And I wanted to start with, instead of getting into the four things, are there any other myths or misconceptions on this topic that people will say, maybe the one percenters or even just falsehoods about reducing belly fat before we get into the real things at work,

Megan Dahlman: 20:29

I've come up with three, there are three big things when it comes to the belly fat is first and foremost is like spot training, saying, Okay, I have an extra accumulation of fat in my belly region. So give me all of the ab exercises that I can possibly find. And you can spot strengthen, but you cannot spot reduce. So you can't do exercises for one specific region on your body and expect the fat distribution in that region to decrease. However, if you do a bunch of exercises for those particular muscles, those muscles will get stronger. That's how they work. So keeping that in mind, like that is a big misconception, I have a really popular core training program, just a simple like five day core tune up and I get a lot of people signing up for it being like, this is really great, I've got a bunch of fat to lose in my midsection, it's like way, way, way, way Wait, this is good for that in the long run, but for a different reason, I don't want you to go into it thinking that the intention of this core training program is to get rid of the fat around your belly, it doesn't work like that. So spot training is kind of the the first thing and hold on.

Philip Pape: 21:41

And a different reason I'm gonna guess is that by having the extra muscle definition, you can reveal it at a higher body fat later on correct.

Megan Dahlman: 21:49

And by having a stronger stable core, in the long run, you're going to be able to train with greater capacity and build that muscle over the rest of your body. So, so yet it it's so foundational to everything else you're going to want to try to accomplish. So the second misconception is just straight up calorie reduction. Like I've got excess fat on my body, I gotta just keep cutting, cutting, cutting calories back back back, then unfortunately, there's a lot of women out there that are only consuming eight or 900 calories a day. And now we have reduced metabolic rate. We have muscles that are shrinking because of it. And it's this like backwards effect. And you get to this point where now I'm spot training really hard on my abs. Now I'm cutting calories like crazy. Why is this not working? Let me add in cardio. That's the other misconception. The third one, the third one, so adding more cardio. So that's kind of our go to in our brain of like I have fat to lose. So I better like ramp up my cardio

Philip Pape: 23:00

and just cut that energy into that that restricted state. Yeah, exactly. Hey, this is Philip. And I hope you're enjoying this guest interview on Wits & Weights. If you're finding it valuable, you can get a bonus conversation we recorded. If you're on our email list, just go to wits & weights.com/bonus or click the link in the show notes. Insiders on our email list will get a link to the bonus conversation where my guest will give you the exact steps to take related to one of the topics in today's episode. Again, these conversations are only available if you're on our free email list to get the bonus exclusive content with today's guest. Just go to wits & weights.com/bonus, or click the link in the show notes. Now back to the show. Okay, so that's what doesn't work. Let's go over the four things you talked about maybe in the order you mentioned them. I don't know if that's important if the order matters, but the first one was sleep or do you want to reveal these the first one sleep so?

Megan Dahlman: 24:00

Yeah. So I think it really does help understanding that what's going on with the belly fat is so hormonal II related. And when you understand that you can say okay, I can do a little bit more thorough approach to attack it. Because we don't in our brains, we have a hard time understanding that a lack of sleep will impact our belly fat, like it doesn't make sense. It's hard for us to make that connection. Like if I get a good night's sleep. How is that gonna reduce my belly fat, like that doesn't like directly relate, but it does. Because when you lack sleep, if you're sleep deprived, your body thinks that it's so stressed out and it creates more cortisol and creates this more inflammatory environment. Especially when you have when your body's bathing in cortisol. It loves to hold on to especially belly fat. Those belly fat receptors are just like really prime to Hold on to that visceral type of fat. So sleep is really, really important. The likelihood of someone who gets excellent sleep, and also has a significant amount of belly fat is, is really low likelihood. So often, if you look at someone who has a lot of belly fat, most of the time they're very poor sleep, or they might have sleep apnea, they might have sleep disturbances like that, or really bad sleep hygiene. And they're very closely related. So sleep is number one, is it getting the point where you can get between six to eight hours of sleep a night? And yes, hormones do impact your quality of sleep. And I know a lot of women going through midlife feel like I, this feels so out of my control, I hear what you're saying, but I don't feel like I can get better sleep. The other things that I'm going to mention, we'll circle back and improve your sleep. So even if you feel like I'm doing all the sleep hygiene stuff, I'm still not sleeping well. I'm trying I really am. These other things will improve your sleep quality, too. So sleep is absolutely first. I agree. And

Philip Pape: 26:11

I, there was a study, I've referenced it in the past, I forgot the details of it. But they took two groups, one that was sleep restricted, like five or five and a half hours, the other had eight hours. And they found two different things. One was when they were in a ad libitum like calorie surplus. The group that was sleep deprived, gained more belly fat, yeah, or I'm sorry, isocaloric. So both groups had the same calories, but they were gaining the group that had the sleep deprivation gained more of that fat in their belly. Yep, correlated with what you're saying. And then secondly, when you are allowed to just eat whatever you get a lot hungrier when you have less sleep, so then you gain more weight. So that's just another negative, there's many negatives of poor sleep. We know that sounds good. Okay, they're

Megan Dahlman: 26:50

all intertwined that sleep. The second one is stress, stress management. So usually, when I mentioned this, someone will say there's so many things in my life that caused me stress that feel out of my control, and I really can't, I can't get rid of these things. Whether it's, you know, you're a caretaker for other family members, like that is a burden on your life. That could be very stressful, and it's something that you are called to do, like, that's what you have to do. So it's not about getting rid of stresses, sure, if there are things in your life that you can eliminate, like, let's get rid of those like, like leave for work 10 minutes earlier. So you stop dealing with the traffic stress, you know, like, let's, those little things can help. But it's more about how you manage your stress. When your stress is going unchecked. Your body is constantly in this fight or flight response. It's in that sympathetic nervous system environment where it's constantly pumping out those stress hormones, once again, that cortisol, high levels of adrenaline, which adrenaline, which directly impacts your ability to sleep, if you're going to bed stressed, your body is in a fight or flight response. It's in this like geared up charged up state, and it's going to impact your sleep. So I always say, let's come up with two, maybe three things that you can do each day to just manage your stress. It doesn't mean that you have to try to eliminate all your stress, we're just going to figure out how to manage it. Whether you feel like you need to or not. Those things should be constant every day, whether or not you're stressed out so that when you hit a season of life, that's super stressful. You already have these stress management mechanisms happening routinely in your day. You're like I got this, I already have a way to manage my stress system. Great ways to do this is getting up a few minutes earlier and just journaling in the morning or reading or praying or three thinking whatever it might be for you. It could be every afternoon I close my computer, I make a cup of tea and I read my book and I take a nap. I'm a Napper. And then every evening, I go for about a 20 or 30 minute walk. It's not for fitness. It's for stress. So in my normal life, there's three things I do every single day for stress management, whether or not I actually feel stressed out. So that's what I recommend for people is just like always having these things in your life that just keep your stress levels like at a manageable level.

Philip Pape: 29:37

Yeah, I love that. We recently did an episode about stress and ask the community what are all your examples and it's, it's beautiful, how many different things people have, whether it's like playing an instrument or walking on the beach, you know? And of course, those of us who lift lifting is an acute stressor that reduces chronic stress as well. Yeah. Especially apparently when done in the morning, which is an interesting thing. It kind of burns down some of that cortisol So great ideas totally agree, I think of the idea of doing something every day consistently, not just because now I'm stressed, let me do this thing, which can be stressful to be like, I need to do something to reduce stress can help. And then since you talked about sleep, I don't know if you're gonna mention this, but more stress can cause an interruption in your sleeping or vice versa. Yep,

Megan Dahlman: 30:19

exactly. Yeah, they really go hand in hand. And then of course, that leads us to the next one. Nutrition. Obviously, that plays a role in your belly fat. And the most important things when it comes to having an environment in your body that releases those excess body fat stores and brings you to a good body composition is having good amounts of protein. I think we're all protein fans around here. And reducing those sugars, processed carbs, processed foods in general. So I always like to attack nutrition from a what can we add in more of mentality? Like, what can we wait? Yeah, additive mentality. So what can we put on your plate like more and more and more and more, it, it's such an easier way that will start to kind of crowd out the unhealthy foods. So especially women in midlife, this is the number one thing that most women are not getting enough of his protein. And whenever I mentioned, how much a good ideal amount of protein is for them, their jaw always drops to the floor. And they're like, but I'm not a bodybuilder, I'm like, but you want to keep muscle on your body. Trust me, I know. And so usually, for my goal with women is like, let's, let's just establish a baseline, let's just get a good idea of kind of how much you're eating. Now. I think, on average, most women I work with are kind of around the 10 grams of protein per meal mark, you know, they'll have a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. Or they'll have a hard a hard boiled egg. Or they'll have you know, something that kind of

Philip Pape: 32:06

one slice of meat on there.

Megan Dahlman: 32:09

Yeah, or they'll have like a bowl of cereal that's like protein that you know, a Special K protein, like, right, right? Oh, wait a second, that has six grams protein,

Philip Pape: 32:19

there has to be more protein. And if you had a slice of bread, yes. Cereal? Yeah,

Megan Dahlman: 32:24

it's like, okay, let's just get a good sense of like where your protein is at now. And then what can we do to add a little bit more in and then just gradually over time, that way, we're not going from, you know, you're used to eating 30 grams of protein a day. And we're suddenly to like trying to get over 100 grams of protein that can feel like a huge leap. Like, let's just slowly ratchet it up, adding a little bit more kind of bringing in a higher quality of looking for I'm, I'm already having Yoker, how can I switch from having like regular yogurt to Greek yogurt that can double it just like that. So, so little tweaks of things that you're already eating, what can I do to what I'm already eating to boost that amount of protein, naturally, so I'm getting close to that 100 grams a day mark. For a lot of women, that's a great threshold to try to get to. Man, if I could get women eating, you know, one gram of protein for how much they weigh or their target weight, that would be amazing, it would make huge difference. That's the stretch goal. Yeah, on their body. But that can feel like a big leap. And that's okay, I understand that. So just figuring out where you're at now and how to just grow that and then the other side of the plate, produce loaded up with produce as much as you can. And that gives you that fiber that helps slow down your digestion, it just helps your body with inflammation, all the things so one really simple hack that I love on the nutrition side is just think eat your pros. Eat your pros. Every meal, look down at your plate, see protein produce protein produce, like if you can just operate throughout your life.

Philip Pape: 34:02

Oh, that's where that comes from. Okay, I hadn't looked into that. I thought the pro just meant protein now yet protein and produce good, okay,

Megan Dahlman: 34:09

keeps it so simple. You know, it makes sense. You're not like counting, you know, you're not having to like track things like you could go to a restaurant, you can go to a buffet, you can go find yourself in all these challenging eating environments and say like, where's the protein? Where's the produce? If it's from the produce department, like that counts? Like, I don't care if it's fruit or vegetables, like just eat it? This is good. Like, yeah, it's so it's a great way to just say, I know that if on my plate, I see protein here and I see produce here. I'm doing a pretty good job.

Philip Pape: 34:41

And if you go to the grocery store, it starts with produce, then it's usually the meat department. Yeah, then it's usually dairy and eggs, and that is all your protein right there. Outside of greens and stuff like that. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I love it. I don't know. I could ask a million questions about nutrition because that's like 90% of what we talk about here and I know we'll talk about it on your show as well. All. But two things come to mind. It sounds like you favor a more maybe intuitive and less track approach and maybe wrong because maybe there's different levels, depending on the clients you work with. So maybe address that. And then the second thing is vegetarians and vegans. What are what are your advice for them? Yeah, so

Megan Dahlman: 35:16

the first part, I always recommend for women to come into it by starting as simple as possible. Like, most people are coming from a place of like, I'm so haphazard. With my eating, I'm starting at like scratch here. So jumping straight to like more challenging, eating skills, like like tracking and counting calories. And counting macros is pretty advanced, like when you're starting from scratch. So I say, let's just start with the how of eating, how to put protein on your plate, how to put produce on your plate, how to eat slowly, how to hydrate, how to pay attention to how food makes you feel, we have to start there, rather than jumping to more advanced skills. And for a lot of people, that's enough, that gets them to a place where they're really healthy, they feel great. They feel like it's not like taking over their life, and they're getting the results that they want. And so if that's the case, it's like, that's awesome. Like, there's no reason to do it any harder than that. Occasionally, if you're really consistent with the basics, and feel like you do need to dial it up a little bit more, you're not getting the results that you want. It's like great, let's explore those slightly more challenging things. And that's where we can bring in the tracking. There's lots of ways that we can track that are pretty simple, like we can just track of, did I have protein today? Did I have a splurge today, and I like to just use like simple checkmarks to start with, of like, we don't need to like measure numbers yet. Let's just have an awareness tool first. Because you might be splurging five days, five times a day and not realizing it. Let's start with that. Like, can we get your splurge isn't a splurge would be anything outside of like the protein produce good healthy fats, good whole grains, anything that lands outside of that, just put an X on your chart? How many x's are you getting a day, you know, if Can we somehow get that down to mostly checkmarks and just 1x. Awesome. And maybe that'll get you the results that you want without ever having to count anything. So I always say let's start with the lowest common denominator. See if that works first, before we go to something a little bit more tricky. So then talking towards the vegetarian vegan side of things, the protein and produce still works is just a lot of your protein is going to be also produce, which is great enough. My recommendation for more plant based eaters is making sure that well understanding that the protein that comes from plants is most often not complete, doesn't have all those nine essential amino acids that your body needs is the building blocks. So when you're looking at your produce, or your protein that goes on your plate, I say pick two. So to keep it really simple, if you're going to put beans in that meal as your protein also add nuts and seeds, if you're going to have lentils also have peas, if you're going to have tofu also add quinoa, so that you've got like two sources of protein on your plate, rather than just one because if you do eat animal products, you can get plenty of protein and all the essential amino acids you need from just the one source of protein. But if you're a more vegetarian or vegan, you're probably going to be able to cover your bases if you have to plant based protein sources on your plate. That makes sense.

Philip Pape: 38:57

Rice and beans. Yes. It's funny because I agree. And that's that's often my advice as well. And the quantity is harder a little bit harder sometimes because now you're competing with fats and carbs, foods. But I have a colleague, he's a coach, he's he's a plant based. He's an omnivore, but he prefers a more plant centric diet. And he has some debates with me and others friendly debates about the complete amino acid thing because he'll show like, even just a very sparse plant diet, you can still get your complete amino acids he likes to show like through all the data, bla bla bla, but we have arguments about that. It's fine. I just wanted to mention that

Megan Dahlman: 39:32

it's really tricky to do like that's, you got to really know your stuff. Like you have to really know like, this plant source has these ones. And then this has these ones and then educated Yeah, you have to really be educated and which is cool if you want to nerd out on that stuff. Like go for it. But for the average individual is really challenging. It's really tricky. Yeah. So

Philip Pape: 39:54

let's get to the fourth one, which is my favorite. What is that strength

Megan Dahlman: 39:59

training so Strength training. So when it comes to belly fat, this is where your brains like, oh, well, let me just do the things that's going to burn the most calories. Well, okay, yes, makes sense. But what ultimately what is the thing that will burn the most calories, and it's anything that's going to put muscle on your frame. Because that is a more thorough approach to having a body that has a faster metabolic rate. And so if you can prioritize strength building or muscle building work, whether that's coming from weightlifting, or using your own body as resistance, I always recommend starting with that start with just bodyweight only work first so that you know how to move and control your body without putting things in your hands and having to figure multiple stuff out at the same time. A lot of people don't think that bodyweight stuff is strength training, like Well think about how heavy your body is you're pushing and pulling that around. That's resistance. Megan,

Philip Pape: 41:03

you don't have to convince me I just did leg races this morning. Speaking of vectors that are tough, yeah. Oh,

Megan Dahlman: 41:11

man. Oh, yeah. So we can do a really thorough, highly effective resistance training workout without any equipment. So but just something that keeps you in, you know, it's a good strength building routine, and muscle building routine, if it kind of stays in the, like six to 12 repetition range. And if we're, if we're getting significantly outside of that, like six to 12 repetition range, now we're kind of moving a little bit more in the stamina side, it's not going to create as much of that hypertrophy in your muscles. So I always say, let's do the bodyweight only wait, like work first, let's get confident with those movements. And then let's see how once you have the confidence, let's see what we can do to keep ratcheting up the load so that you keep staying as you're getting stronger, you keep staying in that six to 12 repetitions range, which, honestly, for those of us that strength train a lot. That's actually a pretty wide range. I don't know about you, but a workout that has 12 reps, feels very different to me than a workout that has six reps. And to be honest, like, I'd rather do the workout with the six reps.

Philip Pape: 42:28

I agree. If people find that out, they do. They're like, Oh, you know, I mean, I'm not just constantly doing all these reps in the gym. No, you're not. It's actually a little bit more fun sometimes. Yeah,

Megan Dahlman: 42:36

yeah, I love the heavy, the heavy weight, heavier, low reps, heavy loads is my favorite kind of weight training.

Philip Pape: 42:43

It's fun. It is definitely fun. Ya know, I like that six to 12. You know, I've used everything from like, you know, four to six on the strength side to up to 12. And then beyond that, it depends if you have certain bodybuilding programming and specialized stuff you're doing that you did a great episode about this recently, I wanted to mention for the listeners, so you should definitely subscribe to your podcast, self care simplified, because it wasn't long ago, although probably a couple months behind when this comes out. That was about strength training, how to get started, you know how to get started for women, you talked about body weight, and then dumbbells and things. So check that out. In the interest of time, I want listeners to know what we're gonna do. Outside of this episode, for those on our email list, you're gonna get a bonus episode that Megan and I are going to do about the best core exercises themselves. So we're gonna save that for that. But like I asked all my guests before we end up if Is there a question that you wish I asked? What is your answer?

Megan Dahlman: 43:38

You know, I think a great question, especially when we're talking about making changes to belly fat is when can you expect to see results? I think this is, you know, you're starting to like, implement the strategies and you're like, Okay, when can I expect to see results? I think most of us want to see them right now. And I think it's really helpful to have a good understanding of when results actually happen. And I like to go with my rule of threes. So usually, once you start doing or implementing a new habit consistently, usually it takes three weeks to feel the benefits of that new habit. So if you're starting a good core training program, usually it takes three weeks to feel your core functioning differently than it had been before. Three months is kind of the next benchmark at three months of consistently doing a good habit and I keep using that word consistent. Because you just need to you need to keep showing up and typically bringing yourself to the table at three months is usually when those visible results really float to the surface. Usually around that three month mark is when you're like okay, I can actually see I can see my muscle because now I can see the fat distribution changing my body composition changing. Most people like I want to see I want those visible results at the three week mark, it's like, well, maybe. But often No, if you don't see anything yet three weeks, like, you're on track. You're, you're not, you're not doing anything wrong. Like, let's make sure you're feeling a difference. Like that's a great indication that you're on the right track. Usually, at the three month mark is when people are like, okay, I can actually, my pants are fitting looser around my midsection. And that's to say, you know, not to say that you won't get some of those results earlier. But I like to give people that really realistic timeline expectation, because it's like, don't judge something in the first three weeks, please, like just give it time to settle in and work for you. And then let's make sure that by three weeks, you're starting to feel your body improve. And then around three months, we should be seeing some visible changes, it's probably not going to be this giant change. We're all about no quick fixes around here. But that's a really good benchmark to aim for. And I find that that's really helpful mentally when you're embarking on something that's hard. I

Philip Pape: 46:22

love that. Yeah, three weeks to feel three weeks to see the muscles, or three months to see if

Megan Dahlman: 46:28

there is a third benchmark. And I'm always hesitant to mention this one. But it's actually wager three years. Yeah, actually, okay. Three years is when it's now your identity. It usually takes someone of showing up consistently and making their fitness and nutrition a priority, where there's something that happens around the three year mark, where it now is so ingrained in who they are, that they don't have to think about it anymore. It's just part of their life. So it's so habitual. And so I get a lot of women and men that I work with, you know, in the first year where they're like, Why is this still so hard for me to show? Why do I still need accountability? Why do I still need to be like, fighting to make this a priority in my life? And I'm like, you're on track. Like, you haven't reached that three year mark. You know, you're you're still in that baby phase of like, your, your will get there. Right around that three year mark. And I have time and time again. I asked people I work with when they've been at it for three or four years and like, can you imagine your life without this? Like, oh, gosh, no, like, I can't even imagine not doing this. Exactly.

Philip Pape: 47:36

Oh, I love that. So three weeks to feel three months to see and three years to be

Megan Dahlman: 47:41

Oh, that's good. Oh, there you go.

Philip Pape: 47:44

I didn't know I don't know if you're gonna say that another like that'll fit. Become that athlete that we are. That is core to identity and that we are now turning into love it. Okay, Megan, where can people learn more about you and your work? Definitely

Megan Dahlman: 47:57

check out my podcast self care simplified. So we are releasing two episodes a week Philip, you're going to be on the show same week that this goes live, which will be really cool. So come check that out. I love to break things down in really, really simple ways. Make them super approachable. And then definitely over on Instagram. I'm there every day multiple times a day. You can find me at Meghan, Dolman, just my name. Love to come say hi.

Philip Pape: 48:23

Perfect. I'll throw those in the show notes. As always. This was awesome. Again, we're gonna do a little mini episode that people can catch up there on the email list. And thank you again for coming on the show.

Megan Dahlman: 48:33

Thank you for having me, Philip. This has been definitely

Philip Pape: 48:37

thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up their Wits & Weights. Please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.