Strength Training for Physical Mastery

Philip Pape 0:00

having a home gym is a great time-saving hack . It's a huge excuse obliterator for so many people if you can do it , and the other thing that surprises people is the investment in a power rack , a bar and plates is probably about the same as getting a whole set of dumbbells . Maybe not quite , but it's not that far off . Yeah , welcome to the Wits and Weights podcast . I'm your host , philip Pape , and this twice-a-week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self-mastery by getting stronger , optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition . We'll uncover science-backed strategies for movement , metabolism , muscle and mindset , with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry , so you can look and feel your absolute best . Let's dive right in Wits and Weights community . Welcome to another bonus episode of the Wits and Weights podcast .

Philip Pape 0:54

This conversation is from my appearance on Jen Roulon's podcast , the Everyday Healthy Human . Jen invited me on her show to discuss the importance of evidence-based fitness and nutrition , debunk the need for excessive cardio to lose weight and emphasize the benefits of lifting heavy . You'll learn about the significance of building habits and non-negotiables in achieving long-term success , and I shared my personal journey and offered advice for those going through a change . Throughout our conversation , we highlighted the importance of focusing on strength , adopting a flexible approach to nutrition and finding joy in the process of transformation . You'll learn why an evidence-based approach is crucial for navigating the often confusing world of fitness and nutrition . Enjoy my conversation with Jen Roulon on the Everyday Healthy Human Podcast .

Jen Rulon 1:45

Hello , hello everybody , and welcome to the Everyday Healthy Human Podcast . I am your host , jen Rulon , or you may know me on the gram as Coach Jen . Well , today I have a guest that I am super excited about because , as you all know , I am obsessed with strength training . As you all know , I am obsessed with strength training living longer than we could ever imagine , and I connected with Philip on Podmatch and Podmatch has been very good about connecting podcasters and guests to bring it on your podcast . So , philip , and I'm going to botch your name and I meant to ask you this beforehand Pap , pape it , pape , it's Pape , pape , philip , pape . Welcome to the Every Day Healthy Human podcast .

Philip Pape 2:31

Thanks , jen . Coach Jen , so great to be here . I love your podcast as well . Thank you , thank you .

Jen Rulon 2:36

Can you share with my followers a little bit about who you are , and then we'll dive even deeper ?

Philip Pape 2:42

Sure , I mean , before we started recording , I mentioned that I'm first and foremost a father . I'm also a husband , so I'm kind of a protector provider and that gives me the purpose in a lot of what I do . But as far as my background , my business , I am a podcaster and I'm also a certified nutrition coach and what I call physique engineer I think I made up that term , I haven't seen it anywhere else and I say it in that order because many coaches happen to have a podcast . But my love for helping people actually began with my show back in late 2021 , after I'd gone through my own personal transformation , because that was , for me , a platform where I could reach other like-minded people , and by that I mean very curious , very driven action takers who were frustrated right With not being able to get the results they wanted whether it's physique , energy , what have you and are also very skeptical of the fitness industry and the confusing mixed messages that we constantly hear Okay , amazing yes .

Philip Pape 3:43

So I spent I mean gosh , I spent two decades of my life . I'm in my forties now and I like to say that I'm getting younger with every year of age . That's my goal right now to yeah , no . And I wasted my time , honestly on on things like fad diets , right , keto , paleo . I did intermittent fasting . I did eight years killing myself in CrossFit and I didn't . Yeah , I did eight years killing myself in CrossFit and I didn't so did I ? Yeah , I know .

Philip Pape 4:08

And you did the Ironman , which I couldn't even imagine yeah , no , but I didn't really feel like a everyday , healthy human across any dimension , right . Physique , energy , performance , all of that . I was just kind of going through life , and that really messes with your confidence , right . It makes you question what's even possible to achieve , whatever your goal is , whether it's your best body or best health , and sometimes you say , like my genetics are what they are , or it is my lot in life , no matter what I do , but I'm not the type to give up , right ?

Philip Pape 4:42

And so I was turning 40 in late 2000 or in 2020 , which we know what happened that year so I had a lot of time on my hands , working from home to seek out information and learn a ton related to fitness and lifting from coaches , books , videos , you name it , podcasts , of course and I finally stumbled into this amazing world of evidence-based fitness and nutrition that I am totally in love with today .

Philip Pape 5:09

I'm enamored with it because it gave me information that worked for the first time , that I could actually get results from . So that year I took that information , I experimented , I moved from the high intensity bootcamp style training that I learned from CrossFit over to lifting heavy , making steady progress , progressive overload , getting stronger , building muscle , and then that tied into nutrition , where I realized I needed to learn how to eat better as well to fuel the performance , not to lose weight . And so I can go on and on . I love to talk because I have my own podcast , jen , but really long story short , I started seeing the results myself in the mirror , in my mind , and I wanted to teach people , and so I combined that with my love of engineering and systems and data and started helping people optimize their health , optimize their physique and get the confidence to know what to do , how to do it and actually make it happen .

Jen Rulon 6:10

So you did high-intensity training , you did CrossFit . Did you feel like you were in shape at that time , before 2020 ? Did you feel like , oh , I'm in pretty decent shape ?

Philip Pape 6:23

Yes and no . I had great conditioning . So my zone four , zone five , cardio was like through the roof VO2 max , low , hrv , all that and so I felt great in that respect . I also very much enjoyed group classes , the community , and I enjoyed the fact that I could use a barbell , which I had never used before until I joined CrossFit . So not to take away from it , but I wasn't getting . I was sort of flat lining and plateauing . I wasn't getting past the point I wanted to and I definitely didn't felt strong and my body was getting kind of achy and recovery was getting harder to come by and all of those things . That's what led me to switch it up .

Jen Rulon 7:02

Yeah , it's interesting that you say that , because I talk with my clients every week and a lot of them are starting their . You know , they're four weeks in and they're like , but I'm not sore from strength training and I'm like because I don't want you to be sore , Like you're feeling the right way , You're doing the workouts the right way . You know I'm not trying to trash your body and doing a hundred squats or what's the one .

Philip Pape 7:29

The one of the workouts was like 150 wall balls and then whatever you have left , you try to do muscle ups , burpees , whatever yeah .

Jen Rulon 7:37

Like , and the point is like , like you said , not taking away from CrossFit because I think it's done a lot of good for society , but I also want people to realize that , no , you don't have to wake up sore every single day . That's not the point .

Philip Pape 7:51

There's so many things people chase , thinking that it's correlated with the outcome , like soreness . And when you start lifting heavy in a lower rep range and you're doing more or less the same movements over time , your body adapts really quickly to that and will not get sore if you're eating and sleeping enough . So if you are getting sore , it could be a negative thing . Not always right . If you're doing hypertrophy or bodybuilding movements , new movements will introduce soreness and certain forms of cardio will introduce soreness and so on .

Jen Rulon 8:19

Yeah , yeah , yeah . So let's talk about debunking a few things , because I think that's really good for a lot of us , a lot of my followers , even a lot of my clients , and I think my clients are finally recognizing like the strength training thing isn't bad . I have people come to me they say hey , jen , I want to lose weight , I want to lose 10 to 15 pounds . You know I need to do more cardio , I need to do more and you know not do a lot of weight . So can you talk a little bit about ? You know people feel like they need to do more cardio to lose weight .

Philip Pape 8:58

First of all , losing weight in and of itself . And if a client ever comes to me saying I need to lose weight , we have . I like to have a conversation around the mindset behind why and what . Why is a number so important ? And let's talk about fat loss versus weight loss , versus what are you really going for ? And if I pick like a hundred people off the street and said what do you want out of your fitness , they'd say I want to look great , I want to feel great , like that's . That's generally what most people want . Yes , well , why do you think losing 10 pounds is going to get you there , right ? Let me ask women who are listening how many times you have dieted and have lost successfully 10 or 20 pounds ? Many times , right , jen . Many times . Many times , right . Did it make you happy ? Right ? Did it make you happy ?

Philip Pape 9:39

In contrast , wouldn't you rather be in a situation where you feel great , you get to eat a lot more food , eat whatever you want pretty much and the things that you enjoy , not feel guilty about it either and also get leaner , toner , tighter , and this fitter body at a higher body weight , which is , I think , what you're going for ? You're not going to get bulky . I can't get bulky . I'm a dude and it's hard to get as big as I would love to get . So , yeah , I think the myth is starting to come around with a lot of people , because I hear a lot of women coming to me saying like I want to build muscle ? Awesome , let's do it . You're going to eat . You're going to eat a lot , but that's okay . You might gain a tiny bit of fat along the way , but we're going to cut that off , no problem , and you're going to be leaner and fitter as a result .

Jen Rulon 10:26

Yeah , it's , and it's interesting , I go . You said something about like eating what you want . Like I've had many clients be like oh , but I had some potatoes , that's okay , have potatoes . Like I want you to eat how you normally eat . If you go to Chick-fil-A every Friday with your kids , like make the right choice in , take everything out , and then you drop all this weight and then you leave me for not coaching anymore , right ? And then all of a sudden you gain it back plus .

Philip Pape 10:58

Yeah , I just did an episode called the Freedom of no More Cheat Meals because I want people to get away from the idea that there is anything to cheat against . If you feel like you're cheating , you're making a moral decision . We don't want our food choices to cause guilt , because there's a good and a bad . We want to pick things that are aligned with our goals , that fuel our workouts , that help us sleep better , that help with our hormones da-da-da-da-da-da-da and that could be low carb , high carb , medium carb , high protein , low . Well , no , it's all fairly high protein , but that's a non-negotiable . It's all fairly high protein , but that's a non-negotiable . But it's a flexible approach , right ?

Nutrition, Mindset, and Lifting Heavy

Philip Pape 11:37

And it's funny you mentioned potatoes because , like just yesterday , I had a client check in where my feedback to her during fat loss she's now in a fat loss phase after having built muscle for like six months was . She said you know , she's having a little bit of hunger at a certain time of day , and it was around a workout and I said have you tried potatoes ? Because potatoes give you carbs , but they're also the most satiating food on the planet . And she's like oh , I forgot about that and I have this fear around it . But thanks for reminding me . I'm going to incorporate potatoes again .

Jen Rulon 12:01

Yeah , yeah . I mean , if I look back at my nutrition journey and I've talked about this on my podcast I hated nutrition because I grew up with the mom , the grandma , the aunts always on a diet and so when I would want a burger and fries , I would have to justify it and be like , oh well , I just rode six hours , so of course I can go have a burger and fry . And it was a long time for me to snap out of that unhealthy thought process behind food .

Philip Pape 12:33

Yeah , and it leads to other things that shouldn't have to exist , such as the idea of trigger foods . So like I hardly use that term , in my practice at least , and for me it's a lot of mindset and psychology , jen right .

Philip Pape 12:45

So if you use some of these , terms I get it , but , like the idea of a trigger food implies that there's this thing that's outside of you that's going to cause you to just lose control and your emotions are going to take over . As opposed to let's identify those situations and the emotions we get from them and plan ahead and put something in place that kind of blocks that right . And by that I mean how about have the foods that are your trigger foods on a frequent basis , in small amounts , so they don't trigger you anymore ? That's just one of many strategies . So it's getting control of your body and your mind through these practices , rather than thinking that we're beholden to those situations .

Jen Rulon 13:28

I noticed too with the clients I've been working with is that they start tracking . They start looking at things and they're like , oh , I can have that , that does fit my macros , and I'm like y'all can have a donut if you want , like I'm okay with that , but just track it and see where it sits . And then maybe your carbohydrates , you know , but maybe you had a donut and you just went skiing for five hours . You know like it's okay to have that , just track it .

Philip Pape 13:55

You know Exactly , yeah , and even like you can tell with the language . When they say , well , I was good or bad , or I will do better , it's like no , let's reframe that Like there's no good or bad , there's just reality , there's information and there's the data . Like you said , tracking and monitoring is one of the best things we can do . People will say , oh , it's too tedious to track . Well , I don't know . When you have to go on a big trip , do you track your budget to see where the money is going ? You just do the same for the energy coming into your body .

Philip Pape 14:29

Oh , it's funny because last year I did a very brief , fairly aggressive fat loss phase for myself as an experiment with some of my clients , and it's way more aggressive than normally I would recommend . But we were training hard , we were eating a lot of protein . It was two weeks long . I intentionally set two days within those two weeks to go out to eat just to show people here's how you can plan ahead . And it reminded me that it's hard but totally doable . And I remember going to this really nice restaurant where I would normally have like a lot right and I'm like , okay , I've got to have the scallops , They've got some alcohol-free rum so I can enjoy some what seems like a beverage . You know , get the nice huge salad Like . You can make easy choices as long as you plan ahead and easily hit even very aggressive macros if you had them .

Jen Rulon 15:09

Right , agreed . I still remember my professor at University of Texas , san Antonio , for my master's degree , and he's like you know , he's like is broccoli good for you ? Is a donut bad for you ? And it's like and that's the very common question , because Oprah magazine says that you know , and so people read that and they think , oh my God , it's like well , you know what I just got done with an Ironman , I'm sure , I'm sure going to have a donut the next day , right , because my body is like I need food . Is eating a piece of broccoli going to help me ? You know , probably not as much as you know I need the calories . You know , I need to feel that tank I wanted to talk to you about . You talk a lot about the importance of lifting heavy , but what does that exactly mean , and can you talk a little bit about that ?

Philip Pape 16:01

Yeah , lifting heavy is relative to you , but it also means focusing on strength as a beginner .

Philip Pape 16:10

So I like when I have a beginning client who's never lifted before start their strength training regimen three days a week , full body lifting in the four to six rep range for big compound lifts , and that's it . Super simple , it's time , efficient , it's only like four movements to learn so you can practice form and get better at them quickly . And guess what ? All I want you to do is increase the weight every time you go to the gym on those lifts . The first three , four , five sessions it may not feel quote , unquote heavy , but pretty soon , by doing the same number of sets and reps and just increasing the weight , it's going to start hitting your limit , it's going to start getting close to that limit . But if you can get them in and then you sleep and eat , you'll be able to lift a little more next time and next time and next time . That's what I mean by lifting heavy Progressive overload , progress over time and causing your body to adapt and build strength and muscle .

Compound Movements and Building Healthy Habits

Philip Pape 17:07

And I know what compound movements are .

Jen Rulon 17:09

Can you explain to the followers what that ?

Philip Pape 17:11

compound movements are . Sure , that's just a lift that uses multiple joints on your body . So that would be a squat , a deadlift , a press , a bench press , and there's a whole bunch of other ones like rows or accessory movements that are considered . Even pull-ups would be compound , and the reason I love them is because they use more muscle mass . They use more muscle groups for the same amount of time , so they're very time efficient . But also you can lift them very heavy if you're using barbells or even dumbbells , where you're recruiting the bigger muscle fibers and that contributes to the motor pattern that we're trying to develop as we get stronger . That then leads to developing more muscle mass . So again , beginners , it's like if you can focus on strength , you'll make a lot of progress and , like you know , double all your lifts pretty quickly within a few months . Then you do all the more fun stuff like body part splits and bodybuilding movements and whatnot no-transcript .

Philip Pape 18:39

You don't . You know you don't want to compare to other people , right it's ? You're trying to beat your own PRs and if you're a beginner you could . You could start with body weight , you can start with bands , you can start with an empty bar , it doesn't matter . Like I'm not going to judge you for any of that . Eventually , once you get strong enough , you're probably going to need free weights or really good machines like cable machines and stuff that can load you up pretty , pretty intensely .

Jen Rulon 18:59

For sure . And I think and I think a lot of people think that , oh , I got to go to the ball , I got to go to the gym to lift the weights . No , I mean , 2020 taught us that , right ? Yeah for sure . 2020 taught us like , hey , get some dumbbells or kettlebells , because they're going to sell out real quick . Bikes are going to sell out real quick because we had no outlet to go to , and that's you know . We started developing . You know , back in the States , I started developing a gym and here in Costa Rica I have a whole bunch of kettlebells , dumbbells . I have a bench because if I can't make it to the gym , I can go out right to my patio and do what I need to do .

Philip Pape 19:33

So oh , I'd love to work out . Yeah , you're in Costa Rica and I'm in Connecticut , so for me it's in the room over my garage . It's really cool . But it's funny how many people I've convinced to buy a rack and barbell , you know like for their home gym , because having a home gym is a great time saving hack . It's a huge excuse obliterator for so many people if you can do it . And the other thing that surprises people is the investment in like a power rack , a bar and plates is probably about the same as getting a whole set of dumbbells , like maybe , maybe not quite , but it's not that far off .

Jen Rulon 20:05

Yeah , that's so true , and it's interesting you were talking about this because I was at a gym for a long time here in Costa Rica , in Samara , and they were very limited to kettlebells and dumbbells . And then I went back to the States and I ended up staying there for two months because mom fell and had to take , and so I was like I need to go back to CrossFit . I just I , I just needed to go in , get my workout in and leave , and it made me realize how much I , how much I miss getting under a bar , like doing squats and doing deadlifts . And so then , when I returned to Costa Rica , I was like I need to find a gym that's got leg press , machine bars , you know uh , racks , you know whatever . And I found it and I am so much I look different , I look healthier , I look better because I feel , because of really focusing on that those compound movements I mean I , I have .

Philip Pape 21:12

I've not met anyone , even women , who do it right and say they don't like it . Like , so I have . I've had a lot of clients or people listen to podcasts say , well , I don't really like lifting weights . I'm like , well , how do you lift weights ? Well , you know , I go and I figure out what I want to do when I get to the gym and I use these machines and I do 10 to 15 rep and I'm like , okay , and you're doing the same weight over and over again .

Philip Pape 21:32

That sounds boring , as you know what like like to me , that's that sounds boring . No wonder you don't like lifting weights . How about if you do these , these big movements where you feel like a badass ? Right , you feel big and strong . Like , again , women , you know that that I work with you know love that just as much as men . Like there's , no , there's , there's too many stereotypes about all this . I know you , women love being strong and capable , right ? So , um , I'm like , just do that for a few weeks and see the numbers go up and I'm like , I'm benching more than I ever benched before after , like you know , three weeks or whatever . It's cause you never tried right in the past and now we're doing it in this programmatic way and then you get hooked , you get hooked . It's like a game you just want to keep getting stronger .

Jen Rulon 22:10

I noticed you said something about habits and that's something that I really have worked on for myself my habits , my non-negotiables and then I share that with the clients that I work with mostly women that I'm like we got to get on habits and so I will go into their program . I'm like , okay , did you get your 90 ounces of water today ? Did you do this ? Did you do that ? What do you think is helpful for people and building habits and building those non-negotiables in life ?

Philip Pape 22:42

Yeah , my thoughts have changed a lot on this over the past few years . The main thing most people do that's , I guess , wrong is try to do too much right this time of year . We're in January , recording this and you have New Year's resolutions right , and it's fine to set a goal . I'm all for goals and I set goals all throughout the year , all the time . But you set a goal and then you're like I'm going to do these 15 things that I didn't do in December and I'm going to start doing them .

Philip Pape 23:10

This . You know , I'm going to walk 12,000 steps , I'm going to go to the gym five days a week and I'm going to quote unquote eat clean , right , and so that's where you fall on your face . You're trying to push your comfort zone like way beyond , where like stretch to its limits and beyond . So just take one or two things that are a small push on your comfort zone . If you have a desk job and you sit around all day and you track your steps and you get 3,000 steps . Add in a walk after lunch for 20 minutes . That'll get you 2,000 more steps . Simple .

Philip Pape 23:41

Now , if you're like , well , I don't like walking , or blah , blah , blah , take hold of the excuses and start to hammer them down like whack-a-mole , one after another , and say why does this have to be the case ? Right , like , let's get rid of those excuses . You don't like walking ? Well , what if you listen to a podcast ? Listen to Jen's podcast while you're walking , right , or yours , yeah , or mine .

Philip Pape 23:59

Go out in nature and get some vitamin C , listen to some music ? Right , like , there's a million things you can do . Lifting weights same thing . If you want to lift weights , don't just go to the gym five days a week . Step one find a plan , like . Step two write it out . Step three get your gym bag ready so you don't have excuses in the morning . Little things like that that . You have to take one step forward , another step , and if you're 80% consistent , that's way more than what most people achieve . Like , people have zero days all the time . Don't have zero days , but you don't have to be perfect . And if you do that and you kind of build on that , it helps to have accountability like a coach or a community , like a Facebook group or a community or a friend . It helps a lot to have that .

Jen Rulon 24:41

Uh-huh Agreed , and that's what I loved . I mean , that's what I loved about CrossFit . It was a great community and then even the gym that I had even here at Samara and then even in San Antonio when I lived there . The community was fantastic . But now I've gotten to a point where I'm so motivated I don't need a class , I can go in and get my stuff done and out the door , you know , it's bam , bam , bam , bam . Put the beats on and you know , listen to some Dr Dre and I'm golden .

Philip Pape 25:09

Yeah , big fan . And one more thing I was going to say is people listen to our shows , probably binge a lot of podcasts , and all I would encourage the listeners to do is don't just consume . Take action based on the shows that you trust the most and use that as another motivator , extrinsic motivator , as part of your journey to move forward .

Jen Rulon 25:33

That's great . That's beautiful . Philip , where can I could keep this conversation ?

Philip Pape 25:37

going to be honest with you .

Jen Rulon 25:39

Holy cow , this is good stuff I might have to bring you back for if people have more questions . But where can people find ?

Philip Pape 25:46

you I'll say two places the podcast wits and weights . So go follow it right now , wits and weights , and then send me a message on Instagram at wits and weights .

Jen Rulon 25:56

Perfect . So final question and I ask this all the time Butterflies have played a big role in my life and butterflies are all about that transformation , that

Embracing Change and Growth

Jen Rulon 26:08

change right . They're going from that caterpillar to the cocoon to , all of a sudden , that metamorphosis into that beautiful butterfly . For somebody that might be going through a change , what piece of advice would you give them to keep going on that path ?

Philip Pape 26:27

Somebody who's going through a change . I guess what we just talked about of not trying to do too much , because the change itself can be a stressor on your body right and on your mind , and so I would look at that as a new adventure in life , this new phase of life whether it's post-career or post-menopause or whatever the transition is that you're going through as an opportunity to take advantage of a new phase in life . Whatever has changed for you has given you things that you may not have had before . So be positive , think of it , not what you've lost , but what you've gained , and go after that . That's great , I love it . Go after that . That's great , I love it . Platform right now to catch the next episode . Until then , stay strong .