Physique Transformation Through Strength Focus

Philip Pape 0:01

If you've been consistently lifting weights and monitoring your diet , but you're still not seeing the body composition changes that you want and you're starting to question is it even possible to lose fat while maintaining or building muscle ? This episode is for you . Today , I'm talking with Melanie , who transformed her physique by shifting focus from aesthetics to performance and getting stronger , dropping from over 24% to just 16% body fat , while actually gaining over 3 pounds of muscle and seeing her lifts go up . You'll discover what helped her achieve these results and the two most important factors of success in aligning your training , nutrition and mindset to achieve any physique goal . Achieve any physique goal . Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency .

Philip Pape 0:55

I'm your host , Philip Pape , and today I've invited on one of my amazing clients , Melanie , to talk about her results and how she got there Now . Melanie came to me initially with aesthetic goals . She had quite a bit of experience in the past with different programs and even some success , and she wanted some guidance and accountability . Together , we started shifting her focus from not only aesthetics but also strength and performance , and she dropped around eight and a half percent body fat . She'd simultaneously built three pounds of muscle at a fairly , I'll say light body weight , and we'll get into some of the numbers and she developed a sustainable approach that keeps delivering results , and more to come . So today you're going to learn how she did this , how you can apply these lessons to your own journey , some of the challenges along the way .

Philip Pape 1:39

Melanie , I thank you so much for joining me today , Hello . So let's start with some background , because I think that's where people want to understand , like , what were you doing before and then what happened throughout this process ? Just to share a little bit about yourself what led you to seek out coaching , Because I know you've worked with a coach before , somebody who I know quite well . Feel free to share as much as you want about that .

Melanie 2:02

Okay , after the birth of my second kid in 2014 , I kind of realized my body wasn't springing back as it used to . So I sought out some nutritional guidance from Paul Salter , who you just mentioned , and I worked for him for gosh , almost eight years . He took me through a bunch of deficits and a bunch of maintenance cycles and everything , and then about two years ago I had kind of stopped with him because I had a family medical issue that I had to attend to overseas and when that happened , basically all nutrition and all fitness went out the window because it was for an extended period of time . When I got back stateside I was really struggling with being consistent with anything , not because I didn't know how to , but I think personally , for me , accountability is kind of what at least gets me started , and then I can you know , once I've kind of seen the results , I can maintain it for the most part , and I think that's where I was struggling . Paul had recommended you , and so that's how we connected .

Philip Pape 3:13

Yeah . So for folks who follow the show for a while , paul's actually been on twice . I was on his show and he he definitely has his careers evolved . He went into hypnotherapy and I think he works with golf experts and professionals now Unless you're a golfer , but good guy . And what's really cool is that you know I know there's different coaches at different levels and you already had coming in , I can tell like a deep knowledge of you , know the basics for sure , like macros and how that works , but even some more advanced techniques , as well as a pretty high level of awareness on some things like your connection with food , your own body and how it responds . And yet there's still more to learn . Right , there's always more to learn .

Melanie 3:54

Yes .

Philip Pape 3:54

And so when you say accountability gets you started and then you're able to maintain , I guess people want to know does that mean I need to work with a coach for eight years or for 20 years or for all my life ? What's the value of this Like ? What's going on there ? They want to know .

Melanie 4:09

So the reason I worked with Paul for so long was because he was amazing . Number one , number two , I kind of wanted to push my body as far as it could go because I had a lot of time , back then at least , and so if I wanted to do a maintenance cycle and then I wanted to do a deficit and I didn't want to do the deficit on my own , because it's one of those things where I just want to outsource it to someone else I didn't want to have to have the mental , do the mental work of thinking what should my macros be ? How long should I do this for ? Because I had the privilege and luxury of working with a professional and being able to afford one . So that's kind of why we did it that way , and I'm one of those weirdos that actually likes being in a deficit .

Melanie 4:52

It's something about just knowing that . That's what it is and I don't have to tweak anything . Somebody is telling me exactly what to do . My brain is now freed up to have to make decisions about other things . So I think that's where working with a coach for me comes into play . Even when I was working with you right , it was I just trusted you a hundred percent , whatever you said to do , except maybe give up that one chocolate a day . I was like , okay , fine , Because at the end of the day everything is almost reversible , right , like if it didn't work out we could tweak it to see how my body would respond to something . It's it's . It was a learning process for the both of us , cause it was the first time you were working with me to see how my body would respond to what we had kind of programmed , if you will .

Philip Pape 5:39

You said so much good stuff in there . Seriously , and I know it's just like natural to you no big deal , but like for sure , having a professional to create a plan is helpful , because sometimes we say , well , just just listen to Phil's podcast and you'll learn all about . Uh , you know the macros and what rate of fat loss to go at it , whatever . But even that can be overwhelming because you're like for me , I have very specific goals and as specific body weight and specific whatever training plan , what do I do ? And so it isn't just information , it's information crafted and structured and tailored to you , the liking being a deficit . Well , let's get back to that one . Let's pin that one for a second , cause that'll be interesting , and I know I like working with you , melody , cause you've got you've got some cool no-transcript .

Philip Pape 6:34

It's to seek someone who is going to work with you , to learn with you , to be humble , hopefully somewhat humble where they need to be , and then maybe more assertive where they're not they don't need to be , and then maybe more assertive where they're not they don't need to be . And things like you know how you were able to build muscle even at a fairly lean body weight . You know leanness , body composition as well as lean weight and still able to build muscle , but because the numbers don't move as much magnitude wise for you , like compared to a 300 pound dude . You know it's like how do we tease out what exactly is happening ? And then also the fact that you want your Ferrero Rocher . Let's just admit like I was like okay , I'm not going to push that one , don't worry . Flexible diet , that's what we're here for . So yeah , I just want to rephrase everything I just heard you say , which I think is valuable as far as liking being a deficit .

Coaching History and Accountability Benefits

Melanie 7:26

Tell us more about that . I think that's mostly a control thing . Right , it's like it's . It's knowing that I can push my body to somewhat of an extreme obviously we're not doing bodybuilder type deficits or whatever right , but for me that's somewhat of an extreme compared to my maintenance and knowing that I can do it . So there's some sort of control that goes in there that I enjoy , that I can do it . So there's some sort of control that goes in there that I enjoy .

Melanie 7:50

When you're in maintenance there's a little bit more leeway of kind of going off your macros a little bit , right , like if your macro was , I don't know , like 70 grams of carbs or whatever , if you're in maintenance , it's not that big of a deal if you even for a week , go over it .

Melanie 8:01

Right , because you're in maintenance and it's life and you're supposed to be able to enjoy life when you're in a deficit . Theoretically you shouldn't be in a deficit for a prolonged period of time . So there is more of a hey if you want to really maximize your results in this short period of time and short because it's completely relative to each person you will get the results you get based on how well you adhere to your prescribed program , if that makes sense . So there is a , and I kind of enjoy just knowing hey , for me it's kind of this control thing . And then the aesthetics part of it . You do see the weight shed and you do see your body recomp happening , and that kind of just motivates you to kind of keep on track as well . So there's , you know , there's two aspects to it , for me at least .

Philip Pape 8:54

Yeah , and speaking of the physique , you know your body was fairly sensitive , I think , to like glycogen and carb swings right , where , like you know , you can sometimes get some bloating and fluid retention , sometimes not , and I think you even started to get used to when and why that would happen . As far as the control , I totally understand that . I think people need to understand I've said this before fat loss is not a joy ride . It's not fun in the sun . It is a goal , it's a change , it's a little bit of discomfort and you're forcing your body to release energy and the question is how fast and hard and long do you do that for ? And that's the sustainability piece . It's not like when people say , well , you can do it without hunger and you can do it without whatever . No , you're going to have some hunger , right , and you have to control something . So when you said control , I thought of okay , the structure that we put in place here is not just the rate , but also the fact that you have certain amounts that you can eat , like there literally is a physical amount of stuff you need to eat and the more volume type foods you can have , the more like physical volume you can eat , but still the calories are limited . And you said something in one of your check-ins . I have a whole bunch of quotes from you here , so I'll see if I drop them in One you said I can still have fun and eat with other people and be mindful about portion sizes . Super simple , but literally that is the thing that you're restricting . You're not restricting what you eat and having fun , right ?

Philip Pape 10:16

Tell us about some of the experiments we tried . I know you didn't necessarily do everything I suggested . I don't mean it like that . I mean it like sometimes I said , hey , this is something we could try if you want . Like I would give you the option , such as you know what we would like go higher protein when the calories were getting lean . Or I know , more recently we talked about sprinting . But is there any particular experiment that comes to mind that you wanted to bring up ?

Melanie 10:39

So I think there's two things , everything that you mentioned . There's two things that I clicked with that I thought worked for me . There were other things , obviously , but those were the ones that resonated for me , maybe three actually adding fiber to my diet I forgot to mention that when we actually started working together , I was coming off , basically , like I mentioned , off that medical issue with my family . I was not eating at that point in time and it was a struggle for me to even get calories in , and so then you kind of had me just get to maintenance before we even went into a deficit obviously , and that was a struggle at the very beginning . Then obviously your body gets used to it and blah , blah , blah . But cut to me , being 47 now I think , and as you get older , I think , fiber becomes much , much more important , and that was something that was just not on my radar and so you asked me to introduce fiber . That was super helpful just in terms of bloating to some degree , that I noticed . One of the other things that we also strategized with was increasing protein , and when we started doing that , I noticed just a very perceptible drop increase in leanness . It was a visual , um , visual increase in leanness . For me , when we added protein . And then the other thing that actually kick-started it was when we added protein .

Melanie 12:03

And then the other thing that actually kickstarted it was when we introduced sprinting .

Melanie 12:08

Yeah , and that was towards the tail end , and one of the reasons we did that is because we didn't really want to take away calories , because I was already in such a very low I was already at low numbers and I probably would have become super cranky if we had taken it even lower . So we looked at other ways of managing the balance of energy expenditure and intake and one of those things was well , let's increase the energy expenditure and we just did sprinting , and that I mean after a week or so of it . It feels good . Obviously , the endorphins are firing and you feel like a youth again . You're like I can sprint , I can do this , but it also does kickstart that leanness again . So those were three of the strategies that you had mentioned that really clicked for me and I'm still doing the fiber thing , obviously , and I'm still doing the protein thing . I'm not doing the sprinting as often anymore , maybe like once a week , just for fun at this point , just because it's like a fun thing to do now .

Philip Pape 13:02

Yeah , yeah , I'm sprinting more as well . I'm right with you and I'm telling more and more people about it . There's going to be an episode coming up about sprinting which actually might have preceded this one by the time this comes out . So , yeah , I mean for fat loss , I almost wish we had done it even earlier , just to see what would happen . And this is again the part about like not every coach knows everything and we're always learning and your coach should be learning .

Philip Pape 13:23

But the protein is an interesting one because , again , because you're fairly lean , operating on low calories , low body weight , those small changes in macros can make a big difference and we don't always know why . I can go through the science of the million things that protein does and still we don't always know 100%

The Value of Deficit Phases and Control

Philip Pape 13:39

why . For you , for Melanie , it causes a little bit of leanness . It could be that you were just carrying a little bit less fluid from glycogen , or it could have been that you literally were burning a little more calories because of the thermic effect of food . You never know . The fiber let me tell you , melanie , lately , these carnivore episodes I put out the amount of trolls you get on YouTube about how amazing carnivore is and you don't need fiber to survive and all I want to say is like there's a lot of things you don't need to survive , but let me tell you how beneficial these are and I fear for their gut , like years down the line , by not having any fiber at all .

Melanie 14:13

Well , I mean , on that note , you know , being the age I am , I had to get my colonoscopy this year . I think we had yeah , it was while I was working with you . Obviously , and the thing that the Klonos the guy that does it stresses , he's like he just said , the majority of Americans do not get nearly as much fiber as they should . So you can either supplement I mean he was mentioning the standard fiber in the orange canister that you get at the grocery stores or whatever but you know , to each their own , like you had mentioned , you have . You actually have a list in all the documentation that you give us . You know a wealth of information . You have a list of fiber rich foods . You don't have to take a supplement . You can if you want to , but you can also get it from fruits and veggies and all that stuff is just playing around and seeing how it works for you .

Philip Pape 15:02

Yeah , yeah , and people make excuses with that stuff and I'm like an apple has like five grams of fiber . So if you need 10 grams of fiber , two apples like we'll get you . It's not a big deal , it's just so people are . People are such a dearth of fruit and nutritious foods and that it's a game changer . So all right , so really cool . We're kind of getting into the weeds , but they're good weeds to get into . I do want to know that . I do want to help people understand . When you came to me with the , I'll say , aesthetics goal , which we all have , that and , frankly , the vast majority of people I work with that's one of their goals . Right , it's not the only goal necessarily , but you also did shift toward this focus on strength and performance and had some strength progress , even in fat loss . That , if I'm recalling our data right . Yeah , tell us about that . Like the mindset shift and then also the process .

Melanie 15:47

So initially , like you mentioned , I came with a set of goals , just because I was probably half a size bigger than I usually am , so my clothes were getting snug and it was just affecting my mental state of you know , I feel like I'm doing everything right , but it's not . You know , it's not working . So I should probably reach out to an expert slash professional again to kind of just get on the right track . And then kind of , when we got into it just because for me , as you mentioned , it wasn't necessarily that I had a weight goal right , it was more what I looked like that I wanted to achieve , because it was a slower process for me , uh that I would imagine a lot of people uh , we kind of shifted to .

Melanie 16:31

Well , let's , let's look at some other goals . Let's see if we can reach a number on our deadlift or on our squat or whatever . And the magic of it is , as you get stronger , you build more muscle , which builds more fat , which helps you achieve your aesthetic goal anyway . But it's just shifting your mind to it's a more achievable goal in a shorter amount of time than maybe the aesthetic goal that you're looking for . So it's these small wins along the way that keep you motivated and keep you in the game , because you're just achieving these small wins and not you can't always focus on the big prize right at the beginning . You kind of have to achieve these small goals to get to that big prize . And it was just a way of reframing hey , what can we do and what can we achieve in the next two weeks , Kind of a thing .

Philip Pape 17:19

Yeah , I'll put it this way Even if it weren't getting you a meaningful change in that short period , the fact that you had something to focus on that was moving forward , like . Like that's what people need to find for themselves , whether that's their step count or their protein or their lifts . The nice thing about training is you could always make progress . It doesn't mean the weight on the bar is always going up for a lift , for the max rep , but something should always be moving and then that's a great sign .

Philip Pape 17:43

Now in fat loss , honestly , Melanie , I know we've gone back and forth on the numbers , but people don't often build muscle at all during fat loss and it's hard to say how much of your lean mass was muscle . But out of the roughly you drop 8.5% of body fat and of the pounds that you dropped , you gained about a third of that value as muscle , which is pretty nice ratio . So in other words , it's a one to four ratio of muscle to fat , but in a fat loss phase , which usually you're trying to count the ratio when you're gaining . Anyway , where I'm going with this is like , how did this performance focused approach feel for you as it went forward Like how are you going to carry that forward into the future ? Has it changed your approach at all , or what are your thoughts around that ?

Melanie 18:26

No , I mean , I'm still continuing . I still have a goal of certain numbers to reach on some of the big lifts , and so you know every mess of cycle because I follow a program that's broken down into mess of cycles I'm kind of increasing my one rep max because I am still getting stronger , and even more so now that I'm in a maintenance phase , right , so my body has the energy to kind of push through it even more . So that's always going to be a goal . It's like how many pull-ups can I do ? How many , you know , because you always still

Shifting Focus from Aesthetics to Performance

Melanie 18:56

want to be fit , I'm still young , and so it's one of those things where I'm happy , where I am aesthetically . So now I've got another , not necessarily a goal , but I just want to keep on moving the needle , at whatever rate that means for me .

Philip Pape 19:13

Yeah , and I'm going to put you on the spot . Like are you open to building and gaining , to build muscle .

Melanie 19:18

So that one is tricky . Just because I I feel like when I am actually , when I am actually um over my maintenance weight , if you will , because I am building , I feel more sluggish . Personally I feel more sluggish , which means then when I'm not as quick on the weights I can't pull my body weight up doing pull-ups . But I haven't actually worked with a coach in a building phase . So who knows what that would look like ? And I know , in order to show that muscle at least from what I've read and you can correct me if I'm wrong you kind of have to build . You have to build muscle in order to kind of shape it right . So Paul was very unsuccessful whenever he broached that subject up with me . You might have better luck down the road , but right now I kind of like where I am .

Philip Pape 20:06

And look , there's no right or wrong answer .

Philip Pape 20:08

Honestly , people would love to be able to lose fat and get to some level where they're just , you know , cool , they're cool with it , they're happy and you can still get a lot of progress .

Philip Pape 20:17

The fact that you built muscle while losing means you have some early , like novice type response still in you to be able to keep gaining muscle at definitely a maintenance and there's always like different trade-offs , like you could always go to a very lean gain . If you're not the type that's like I , have to put on all this muscle and then cut it off . You know cause a lot of us are and a lot of my clients get into the habit of cycling every year more aggressively . But if you're like not comfortable adding 10 more pounds of scale weight because of that's a whole mental thing there's nothing wrong with being at like a little above maintenance and just drifting kind of up , since your body is very responsive , until you hit a wall . Then , when you hit the wall , then you say , okay , now maybe I have to ascertain like one more cut and then a really aggressive bulk for a while and then back to a cut . You know those kinds of long term strategies .

Melanie 21:06

So do you take clients immediately from a deficit to a build , or do you prefer to have them stay in maintenance for a bit ?

Philip Pape 21:14

It depends on their goals . You know what I mean . Like it depends on their goals , I give gentle nudge to go into a bulk , because if you're working with me and paying for me , I'm not going to say it's easy to be at maintenance , but like we've done that , now I want to show you the whole different side of it , all these new challenges that people just don't know , like people watching this and listening . I know you want to lose weight . I know you want to lose fat , but there's something magical about building as well . That's its own thing , but that's in the future . It's all part of your plan , melanie , of like this never ends , the process never ends . You can do it however you want . You know , yeah , it's life .

Melanie 21:47

Well , yeah , and it really shouldn't , right ? I mean , because your body is constantly changing , so what works for me , or what I think works for me this year , may not work for me next year . You know , and so you do . You can't just you can't always stick with the same plan because it worked for you in the past , because your body has now changed . You've gotten , you know for me . I've gotten older , older , my hormones have changed . My body now might be sensitive to something that I used to eat or whatever , and so I can't , you know things like that .

Philip Pape 22:17

A hundred percent . That's a really important point , especially we're both in our forties and I will say even in a two-year period . Because of how your body changes , deliberately and unintentionally , as well as life situation changes , you'll find that the system and the process of experimenting on yourself and getting data you want to keep doing that because , again , the next phase isn't going to operate like the last . So you need to early on understand what's happening so that you could interject and it might be better , it might be worse , it's just different . You know it doesn't matter . Like I wonder about the mindset stuff too , because again , I know you worked with Paul . Paul is a huge , like behavioral change guy . He's very much in a mindset motion . Is there any anything different now than when we started that you found about this process from a mental perspective , like as you were checking in , as you were thinking about that new year's party and whether or not your physique was changing and so on .

Melanie 23:09

It's one of those things . Just because I had worked with someone for so long , my mind was in the right place . That doesn't mean it wasn't hard at times , and you are well aware of that . When we had our check-ins right , like you mentioned , I would always write I'm frustrated that either the scale weight's not moving or I'm frustrated that I'm not losing as inches as fast as I would like . But I am trusting the process because , at the end of the day , every single time that I was in a deficit in the past , as long as I trusted the process , I would get there .

Melanie 23:45

It just doesn't happen as fast as anybody likes . Right , you wanna like immediately . It's kind of like you see those memes online , right ? Somebody just I worked out today and then they're looking at their abs in the mirror and it's what they look like . You don't get the results you want immediately , so it's just staying the course , and I think maybe part of what happens for people is you get frustrated and you just kind of give up , not saying that that hasn't happened to me before , and then you just kind of either , you know , not work out for a week or just go overboard on the eating for a week , and that's also fine , as long as you kind of come back to the process .

Melanie 24:23

Ideally , you know it's just the sooner you come back to the process , the less of that little blip occurs . Because as long as you trust the process and you stick with it , you're going to get the results . It's just inevitable . It's how well you adhere to the process . But you can have F-ups along the way , right ? I mean , we're all human , nobody's a robot . So it's just as long as you're consistently coming back to where you need to be or where you want to be , that's the key .

Philip Pape 24:55

It's a great way to put it . I mean , I think of like a rubber band getting stretched where it always comes back to where it needs to be . Or I think Gary V posted an image on Instagram the other day that had five glasses of water and it said this is what people think consistency is , and it's like every glass is full . And then here's what it really is . It's like full , almost empty , halfway almost empty , and it's like but there's always a little water in there and like that's the thing is . Like you've always got a little water in your glass

Protein, Fiber and Sprinting for Results

Philip Pape 25:20

and you kind of you come back to that and some days are full and some days are not . And yeah , your check-in comments were along those lines , which I think is healthy . I think people need to understand that . Like you said , I'm following the process , but , man , I do not like feeling this flubby right now . Like that's one of your I hope you don't mind me sharing this but like I think they're good because I would see those and as a coach at initially , I'm like , oh , I , you know , I take it personally when a client feels discouraged in any sense , but also , at the same time , it's human . So when you say these things . It's just an acknowledgement of reality .

Philip Pape 25:51

You had another one about a New Year's party . You said I intentionally ate what was there . I also knew I wasn't really going overboard and my body would adjust back in a few days , as it did shrug emoji . So again you were like confident , the process would work . Now , not everyone's that confident and I suspect newer folks and this is where I'm going to ask for your advice for somebody listening , somebody who is like a month into the process or two months in . They don't have the long history you do . I've seen this as well where a small fraction of clients I lose them because they're impatient and they're like I'm just frustrated , nothing's happening , I'm going to quit , and it's like I tried to reel them back . Not everybody can be saved in that sense , let's just put it that way . What would you say to somebody in advance so that when they have those doubts , what can they do ?

Melanie 26:37

I mean it's normal , right . It's very frustrating . It's hard to just keep on saying trust the process when you can't give them a definite date , slash time as to when the process for them is going to be achieved . It's just , hey , I mean it's scientifically , it's just going to happen . There's just no way that it's not . The only variable right now is the amount of time it's going to take you to get there .

Melanie 27:03

And then also , alluding to that , is the very beginning of this whole journey for me , the nutrition aspect of it , when I would kind of fall off of my prescribed plan , if you will , it was . I read this once . It's like , you know , you get a hole in one tire , I would puncture all four tires . I'd be like , well , I went off plan , so I'm just going to go balls to the wall and I'm just going to eat everything in sight . And that took me a couple of years to go .

Melanie 27:30

Hey , we don't need to do that , right ? Okay , you ate a cookie , you ate two , three cookies . Who cares ? That was one meal . Every meal is your starting point and every meal can be a starting point , not to say that you can't also go balls to the wall for one day , two days , three days , like I said , as long as you get back to it and you're consistent , like you said , some days you're going to be 100% , some days you're going to be 50% , 40% , the average , it's law of averages , it's all going to work out eventually . The only delta is going to be the time taken to get there .

Philip Pape 28:01

Yeah , very well said . I'm not going to add to that because that was good . Yeah , no , people listen . Listen to that . That is exactly what it is what did come to mind there , though there's something else , a side tangent that I was thinking of having to do with . Oh , I guess you know , when you mentioned being in a deficit and stuff like that , I'm such a rational , logical person often , and you know so I will use logical , I will use logic to try to convince people sometimes . Sometimes it works , sometimes it doesn't , but the logical side of that is , if you over consume by you know , a thousand calories one day , but you're under by a thousand the rest of the week , you're at maintenance , right ?

Melanie 28:39

Exactly , but that's . I think that that can be hard for some people who are already in a deficit , because they're already like just going to keep at those calories and now it's that mental game of , well , you're going to take away more even though I may have gone over , but it's that like , well , that was the baseline for me , and now it's less , even if it's for four days , so I can see where that would be a struggle for people . I think that would be a struggle for me . You literally I mean you mentioned just very briefly , but one of the things that I held steadfast my entire deficit journey with you was my one for error share , and you even suggested at the very end , when we were kind of tapering off , you suggested , hey , let's see what would happen if we got rid of that for share and maybe had another carb alternative that didn't have as many fat grams in it , because we were really playing around with numbers for me and I was just like , no , I don't want to , that's all good , that's right .

Philip Pape 29:39

I like to give options , right , like sometimes you want your coach to just tell you what to do . But seriously , sometimes you need options . And I'm not going to say it's like a child , but that did come to mind right , because when you have a kid like I remember when our kids are little , it'd be like give them two options , exactly , and it's cool , because we are humans and we do get paralyzed by indecision sometimes . But also , if you are too restrictive and say like this is the only way , then people can push back if they really want to have their chocolate , that's cool . You're an adult , you know .

Melanie 30:04

Well , I think , logically for me , I knew that that was going to do , that was going to do , that was going to shift stuff . I knew it . Like it makes sense Logically , you're consuming less fat grams . Obviously it's going to make a shift , but for me it was also at that time . Hey , I feel like this is a way for me to kind of be more consistent with the plan , because I'm getting my treat , and so my concern was well , if I drop it , am I going to feel like I'm being restricted ?

Melanie 30:30

Because throughout my , our entire deficit journey I didn't feel restricted , and that generally is the case with me . I don't feel restricted . But if I felt at that time , if we had just taken away that chocolate , I would have felt like , oh , this is no fun .

Philip Pape 30:44

It was the one thing . Yeah , it was like a symbol of freedom .

Melanie 30:47

Of normalcy . Yes , Like this is normal . I'm still eating a chocolate . This is not a deficit .

Philip Pape 30:51

Yeah , no for sure . And people listening , you guys all know what your we call them non-negotiables are . Now , not everything can be a non-negotiable . If your non-negotiable is three glasses of wine every night , we're going to have a discussion about that non-negotiable . But yeah , perfectly wrong .

Philip Pape 31:06

It's funny because I'm thinking about how I'm going to go into fat loss phase in like two weeks myself and all the things I'm going to cut out and that's where your brain goes . But really the brain has to go to like you know , what am I keeping in that I enjoy , and then I'm going to make everything else kind of scale around it to still be successful with fat loss . And for me that's probably ice cream or something . But you don't have options today . With technology , with food science , with ninja creamies , you know there's all sorts of ways to get creative about this . All right , so what a classic table topic style question , like if you can go back and tell yourself something that you didn't know back then and by back then I mean either when we started or it could even be way back when . Uh , what would you tell your younger self ?

Melanie 31:47

I mean what I ? It's basically just trust the process and be consistent , like those are the two things that I think will really factor into somebody having success with achieving their goals . And it's really hard to trust the process and I get that because for some people that the visual differences , or even the quantifiable differences , aren't immediate and it may take a month or two or three , like it , especially if you don't have a , you're not working with large numbers , right ? It's not like you want to drop 40 pounds , you may want to drop five pounds , and sometimes that smaller number is the harder number , right , because it just is . And so trust the process that was something that I had struggles with when I first started . And then just be consistent , right , because science is not doesn't lie Like , the more consistent you are , just the faster you'll see your results . So , truly , you hold , you hold how fast you're going to achieve your goals .

Melanie 32:53

But , that being said , also , you might discover things with your body that you weren't expecting , right . Maybe your body isn't responding to something that you planned out for , and then you're just going to have to adapt and tweak . And that's where working with somebody like you comes into play , because something that works for me that you've prescribed may not work for somebody else that

Trusting the Process and Consistency

Melanie 33:10

you've prescribed may not work for somebody else that you've prescribed , but because you've worked with so many people , you kind of know all these little tricks to throw out there for people to try , and that's the value that comes from hiring someone to work with you , and they're working with you . You're not working for them , they're not working for you . Y'all are on this journey together , and I think that's one of the things that people also don't necessarily understand . Like you're in it as much as I'm in it on my journey right , because it's you're making the plan and I'm following it , but we both have input in what's happening too .

Philip Pape 33:49

Oh yeah , and I want to make sure that plan adapts with you in real time . And it's funny you mentioned you talked about experimentation and learning about your body and all that . I will have clients that early on will say , hey , this thing kind of is not working , so I tested by doing this and I'm all for testing , trust me , I am . The accelerator you get , I think , with a coach is they can say don't do that again , like that test you just did . It's not going to work , but it's cool that you tried it .

Philip Pape 34:15

I'm all for that , but like if you were on your own , you would try it and maybe go a long time not understanding why it did or didn't work . You know that that's what comes to mind . For me is like no , no , no , no want to experiment .

Melanie 34:28

I mean , there's so much more wealth of knowledge that you have with working with so many people , and that's something that you know me I'm not going to have , even though , like you've mentioned , I've done this for so long , but I've only done this for so long , with me and my body's changing every year , so it's almost like I'm a different person every year . So , like we mentioned , what worked last year may not work for me , may not work as well for me this year .

Philip Pape 34:50

For sure , and every person at every time is a unique starting point , so you've got to be willing to like , open your eyes to what the data is telling you .

Carol 35:01

Before I started working with Philip , I had been trying to lose weight and was really struggling with consistency , but from the very beginning , philip took the time to listen to me and understand my goals . He taught me the importance of fueling my body with the right foods to optimize my training in the gym , and I lost 20 pounds . More importantly , I gained self-confidence . What sets Philip apart is the personal connection . He supported and encouraged me every step of the way . So if you're looking for a coach who cares about your journey as much as you do , I highly recommend Philip Pape .

Philip Pape 35:41

When you mentioned trust the process . I guess one obvious question then would be or philosophical question almost is when someone said well , what is the process ? What do you mean by that ? Like is it ? You know what I mean , and I know that's kind of a loaded question , but if somebody has that confusion , what would you say ?

Melanie 35:56

I mean , ultimately it just boils down to if you eat less than your expenditure , you are just going to lose weight . But that's frustrating sometimes because you feel like you're eating so much less than you're putting out . So why isn't the fat loss happening faster ? And it just won't ? Because your body is going to be like hey , I'm not going to let go of this so quickly because I don't know when we're going to get food again . I mean , it's one of those things , right ? Uh ? But back when in my twenties , I was like well , as long as I don't eat , I'm going to . I'm not , I'm going to lose weight , and you , that's just .

Melanie 36:25

Life's too short to not enjoy eating . There is so much good food out there , man . So as long as you are just level-headed and approach everything in moderation and just trust , trust the process , right , it's hey , I'm , I'm getting all the nutrients in , I'm getting my fiber in , I'm getting my carbs , my fat , my protein in and everything . And you have the luxury of playing around with what you want to eat , right , like , if you want to have a big juicy steak one day , go for it . Once again , it's a one day thing , right . The next day you can go back to your thing . Your body adapts so well at any age . Like it's not like it adapts so well at any age . It just may take a little bit longer as you get older , and that's normal , but it will adapt .

Philip Pape 37:21

Yeah , no , I love it . You talked about energy balance . It's a fact , no-transcript , at least have like grasped that concept . And then it's like well , what is that for you ? Because it's probably not your hormones , it's probably not menopause , it's probably not any of those things , even though they have an impact . It's the fundamentals . So you mentioned moderation , nutrients , balance , flexibility . That sounds like a great diet , as opposed to cut out all carbs or cut out all plants .

Melanie 38:10

Well , what I want to highlight again , because we probably just glossed over it in the beginning , I came to you off that issue where I wasn't eating and I was definitely not lean . So that does I mean I would just , I would just survive , basically , basically . But my body did not like that , obviously . And now I'm eating . I'm eating what I should be eating for my you know body type or whatever , and I'm still leaning out because now my body is used to this . So don't think that you just have to stop eating . Your body will get used to you introducing food back .

Melanie 38:46

Remember that when you go on a deficit , you may be limiting the amount of food that you're eating , but that's not going to be forever . You can still maintain that aesthetic goal or whatever into your maintenance and increase more calories because there's a scientific approach to it and you do that so well . You know that your deficit journey is just such a short period of time of what your whole journey is going to be , so you just have to make that quote , unquote sacrifice

The Power of Meal Planning

Melanie 39:14

for just a short period of time .

Philip Pape 39:16

Yeah , it's like a competition almost with yourself . For a short period of time You're going out , you're competing , you're , you're pushing yourself , your discomfort , your , you know it's a change and then you're done and , like you said , sustaining it is important because 95% of people and I know Paul Salter , his company used to be called the 5% solution because it referred to those 5% who successfully maintain the results , versus the 95% who don't so .

Melanie 39:40

but people are afraid , like when I stop my diet I'm just going to gain it all back , Right , Not if you do it Right , I mean , and , like I said , you can still have days where you , you know , go out and you're eating a nice dinner at a restaurant , you have that slice of cake for dessert or whatever , and then the next day , the next meal is a new meal , a new day , a new start . Just be consistent . It really sounds so repetitive , but it really is . On the days that you don't want to go to the gym , just go to the gym , start walking on the treadmill if you don't feel like lifting , because it then just starts to click . You're like well , I'm here already , might as well , just go , let's just do some free weights . Oh well , okay , well , the squat rack's empty . Well , let's .

Melanie 40:19

The other thing to mention I was pretty , pretty repetitive . I think at one point you were like are you just copying and pasting your food choices ? Because I literally eat the same thing every day for the most part . And I do that because , once again , I don't want to have to think I've got what fits my prescribed plan and I don't want to have to think I've got what fits my prescribed plan and I don't want to have to think about it changing every day , and that works for somebody like me and may not work for somebody like , say , my husband . If he were to do it , he can't do that repetitiveness , and so you , if that is something that works for you .

Melanie 40:59

It's such an easy thing because I would have my meals prepped in the fridge ready to go . You know , I'd buy rotisserie chickens from the grocery store , just shred it , it's ready to go . I always have protein on hand and I was fine eating chicken for every meal . It didn't phase me at all . That , I think , also really helps the planning having something ready to go , Because you don't want to be , well , I'm really really hungry and I don't have anything to eat except this package of Oreos , if you will Right , and it doesn't have any protein in it or the protein that you should be having or whatever or plan to have . So as long as you're kind of have stuff ready to go , that also comes in really handy , because then it's that little click of well , I don't have it , I'm just going to eat whatever .

Philip Pape 41:50

Now that doesn't necessarily happen . Yeah , yeah , that's . I mean meal planning , meal prepping is . It's a spectrum Like you alluded to . Like you like to eat the same thing every day , that's great . That'll serve you really well If you like it .

Philip Pape 41:59

If you don't , you can at least have a few options prepared ahead of time for the week . Mix and match them . The point is to get rid of the decision fatigue . I like to call meal prep an act of self-care for your future self right . It's like the stressed out person who may not have food , who's going to eat the Oreos now , has the option Whether it's a snack . I mean , again , it's a spectrum .

Philip Pape 42:19

You could have a whole pantry full of great snacks that you would go to instead of the Oreos or fruit , or you can literally have every meal prepped in Tupperware . You know whatever , whatever way you want to go with that . So it's funny because every new client who isn't educated on that coming in , I'm like , okay , here we go again , like this is . I know this is going to be a game changer for them and a lot of people see it as meal planning , meal prep , like it sounds like this chore , you know , it sounds like budgeting or whatever , and really it ends up being a lot easier , because then the whole week gets freed up from all this meal prep during the week and you're like , oh , now I see .

Melanie 42:51

Yeah , that phrase decision fatigue is I've never . I mean , I may have heard it before , but it hasn't clicked with me . But that is exactly why I like being in a deficit , that's exactly why I like not having to think about something . After I've thought about it one time , it's like , okay , the decision has been made and I'm just going to repeat what we decided again and again , and again .

Philip Pape 43:13

Exactly so . You've got all these great tools . I'm sure we can go on and on about all the things , but it's going to be different for everyone . You've got these results . You're still leaning out a bit . We've got the sprinting added in , which is cool , and still leaning out a bit . We've got the sprinting added in , which is cool . And I you know you're getting stronger , you're getting faster . All these , what's next Are you ? You mentioned sustaining it , but I know you always have some goal .

Melanie 43:33

I do . So , you know , I we've stepped away from working together for right now and I said I'm probably going to reach out again when I want to be in a deficit again , because it's one of those things like I said , I enjoy doing it and I especially enjoy doing it during the holiday season . It's just an incentive for me to just not go off track Once again . For me , I would say you know a lot of it is the accountability hey , I have . I'm working with someone . I'm letting my team member down if I just do whatever I want to do . And so one way for me to just know for sure that I am not going to gain the holiday 15 or holiday five or whatever it is , is like , hey , we're working together , we have a goal I'm going to do .

Melanie 44:19

It Doesn't mean that I can't enjoy that one New Year's meal or the one Christmas meal or whatever , but it just means that every time my neighbor brings over a cookie or something , I don't always have to eat it because I'm trying to achieve something for myself . So right now , while I'm in maintenance , my goal is just to get stronger and stronger and stronger , more so than anything because I am at my aesthetic goal . My clothes are fitting the way I like them to . I like the way I look personally , so that's all good . And then when I want to go into a deficit again , I just like having somebody that's an expert , that will just do all the decision making for me , like you just said , and I just have to follow along and do that . So that's kind of my plan right now . Cool yeah , getting stronger is one of my plan right now .

Philip Pape 45:05

Cool , yeah , getting stronger is one of my favorite goals , so you can't go wrong there and honestly , you could do some form of that forever . And uh , again , I mentioned Nikki Sims earlier but she said it's like going from skinny to strong , uh kind of deal . So you know if and when you're ready to build , definitely reach out . But again , you mentioned about losing . You know I've got plenty of clients who do it seasonally . They're like all right , it's fat loss time . Let me go talk to Phillip . You know it's just one of those and I don't take it personally because you know , whatever you need help with , I'm here to help . So let me ask you this as we wrap up is there anything you would say to somebody who's on the fence about coaching and either may not be the right fit for coaching , versus they are Like I'm really curious . I'm always curious about that . Like , is there somebody who shouldn't , other than maybe they can't afford it , or and and you know we all have different price levels , that's different . What do you think ?

Melanie 45:54

There's so much value to having a coach because there is so much information out there , it takes so long to kind of comb through the weeds . It's hard to know what's necessarily accurate . You could follow three people whom you really admire and trust and they could have three completely different opinions , and then you're just like well , I don't know what I should do for my body . Am I going to really experiment with all of these things ? Having you in my back pocket , if you will , was just . It just took all the stress out of it Because , like we mentioned , you've worked with so many people , so you've kind of had the experience of knowing what works or what you can already see is not going to work for somebody .

Melanie 46:34

You know if you're trying something , and so it's just the experience , the ability to kind of cut out all the noise , all that extra noise , and say , hey , let's try this , let's try this Somebody . If you want that person to make all the decisions for you , great . If you want it to be more collaborative , great . Like a coach is supposed to and this is what you do also kind of be a therapist to kind of figure out what that person's uh receptiveness to which coaching style like as somebody . Does somebody like being told what to do like me , and does it . Or does somebody like being more collaborative and doing it that way ? So I can't stress enough just how much easier it is to achieve your goals if you work with a coach . I'm not saying you can't , it's just there's a lot of noise that gets cut out when you work with a coach .

Philip Pape 47:23

Yeah ,

Future Goals and Coaching Value

Philip Pape 47:24

I like the way you put that , because if you're ever hitting your head against the wall about anything and you've already listened to all the podcasts and read all the books because I've been there where I'm like I could do this it's like , ah , something's not quite cutting it . I mean , just find that person , that expert , get a referral , talk to Melanie , talk to anybody and go for it . So , yeah , I mean thanks for sharing your story today . I know there's probably a lot more we could have gotten into . I guess I'll ask you is there anything we didn't cover ? You're like , oh , I gotta , I gotta tell people about this .

Melanie 47:51

No , I think when I remember just meal prepping , like that was such a big thing , I can't believe I almost forgot that one . But that one does really help you kind of stick with your goals and then just be patient . It's okay to be frustrated , Just know that it will happen . The delta is the time .

Philip Pape 48:10

It will happen , absolutely it will happen . It's just a matter of time . Thank you so much , melanie , for coming on , and I'm excited to see what happens next . I am hoping we can stay in touch and maybe get you building some muscle here in the near term .

Melanie 48:23

I'm going to keep saying it , I'm going to keep saying it , I'm going to keep saying it , I'll keep on getting stronger . So we might , we might , be there .

Philip Pape 48:29

Exactly , exactly Once . Yeah , um yeah . If you hit that wall during maintenance , you're like , why isn't it happening ?

Melanie 48:46

It's because of the food You're going to need more food . Yeah , all right . Well , thank you so much for coming . Feel free , what's the best way to do that Email , if you want to drop it somewhere , or do you just want me to say it ?

Philip Pape 48:52

Yeah , I'll drop it in there . I'll drop it in the show notes so people can look at that .

Melanie 48:55

Okay , all right , yeah , that's the best way .

Philip Pape 48:57

Awesome . Thanks so much for coming on .

Melanie 48:59

Thank you .