Challenging Cycle Syncing Misconceptions

Philip Pape 0:01

The fitness industry wants you to believe , you need to completely overhaul your training and nutrition based on where you are in your menstrual cycle . But what if this trendy approach is actually working against your goals ? Today , I've invited on expert dietician Jillian Greaves to reveal what the science really says about hormones and exercise . Learn why rigid cycle-based protocols often backfire , discover the actual signs your body needs adjustments and get practical tips to optimize your training based on your cycle , without unnecessary restrictions . Welcome to wits and weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency .

Philip Pape 0:48

I'm your host , philip Pape , and today I'm discussing cycle syncing with Jillian Greaves . Now , jillian is a functional medicine , dietitian and women's health specialist . She's helped thousands of women address their hormonal health through personalized nutrition and lifestyle interventions . She earned her master's in public health from Tufts University and has extensive clinical experience at institutions like the USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging . Today , you're going to learn why many standard cycle-based protocols often don't work , what your symptoms actually reveal about your body's needs and how to personalize your approach . That's what we're all about personalizing your approach while respecting your unique physiology .

Philip Pape 1:28

Jillian , thank you so much for coming on the show . Thank you for having me Excited to be here , and this is an exciting topic because there's a lot of misinformation about it and I know we're going to clear that up today and people are going to be super crystal clear on what to do People as in women , but you know what Men listening to this or coaches . It's really good information to understand , because hormones in general are kind of a muddy topic . So the question I have for you , just to right out of the gate does it work ? Does cycle syncing syncing your training and or nutrition to the menstrual cycle work , or is it marketing to sell programs ?

Stephanie 2:04

It is both .

Jillian Greaves 2:04

In my opinion , like all things , there's always so much nuance right , and the way that I define cycle syncing in a general sense is ultimately making supportive adjustments to your nutrition , your lifestyle , throughout your cycle to kind of support fluctuating hormones . As females , particularly women of reproductive age , our physiology does change as hormones fluctuate throughout the cycle and there are definitely shifts that we can make and things that we can be aware of , to better support and adapt to these changes . On the other end of the spectrum , when we're talking about , you know , is it real , isn't it real ? You know , social media has , you know , kind of blown up in terms of talking about a lot of different things , but with cycle syncing in particular ,

Introduction to Jillian Greaves

Jillian Greaves 2:56

I've seen so much talk about it in recent years and I think this is where things get a little bit murky or muddy .

Jillian Greaves 3:01

Where on , you know , in the online health space , cycle syncing has essentially turned into like this rigid diet or this plan that you know women are trying to follow to a T , and I think an even bigger problem I'm seeing is that women are getting so zoomed in on like micro strategies with food , with adjusting their training , that we kind of miss the forest for the trees , and I see people on social media recommending you switch up the type of lettuce or the type of nuts that you're eating based on the day of your cycle that you're on , and ultimately , we really just miss the mark when it comes to actually supporting the things that can make a difference with our training and with how we're feeling .

Jillian Greaves 3:47

And while the body does mobilize nutrients differently across the phases of the menstrual cycle , we have no data supporting that these ultra-specific microfood interventions and eating this type of lettuce on day 19 and this type of lettuce on day 25 is going to balance your hormones . It's just again we miss the forest for the trees and that's really not what cycle syncing is at the end of the day .

Philip Pape 4:12

Cool , that's a great answer . And this obsession with these micro strategies , or the 1% , I call them as well , it's a general thing , right ? Because I guess the logic that I would apply is men or women , when you are in any one particular state , like a given week of your life , can you , at that level of detail , optimize perfectly for these things ? Or is it highly personal and it's really going to take a lot of experimentation and understanding ? You know ? You know , I mean , we're kind of leading where we're going here .

Philip Pape 4:38

But so then try to now break it up into what Nikki Sims , who was just on the show from Barbell Logic . She calls her four personas of the month . Right , like , she's like four different people for the month , yep , and now trying to do it for four different people every month for yourself , it's even going to exacerbate the error . Let's call it yes . So you mentioned supportive adjustments and that physiology does change . So let's dig into the science or the reality of basic hormone physiology , maybe in general , and then also throughout the menstrual cycle , because some people are just confused in general about this stuff . But let's break it down . We can talk about the phases , you can talk about how things change in reality .

Jillian Greaves 5:15

Yeah . So let's break down kind of the four phases of the menstrual cycle and then we can kind of get into talking about actually what's shifting , what's happening and what we can proactively do to support the body . So in terms of the four phases of the menstrual cycle , we have our menstruation phase , which is technically our leading phase , where we're on our period , and this is a period of time where overall hormone levels are at their lowest , at their very lowest throughout the cycle . From there we enter the follicular phase and this is a period of time where estrogen levels are on the rise . So the body is essentially maturing follicles and the secretion of estrogen is increasing throughout the follicular phase . We then enter the ovulatory phase . That's where estrogen kind of hits a peak and this is part of what's going to stimulate ovulation or the release of an egg .

Jillian Greaves 6:14

Moving on from the ovulatory phase , we then enter the luteal phase . So this is a period of time in the menstrual cycle where both estrogen and the hormone progesterone are kind of at their highest , so the overall hormone load in the body is higher at this time . The luteal phase is typically about a two-week stretch of time and the luteal phase will either end in your period or pregnancy . Those are the only two options . And then we enter the menstruation phase or that bleeding phase again and kind of start that cycle over when it comes to kind of specifically like what's shifting with our physiology , what's happening as these hormones are ebbing and flowing throughout the cycle . So , starting with the menstruation phase or that phase of time where overall hormone levels are at their lowest menstruation phase or that phase of time where overall hormone levels are at their lowest this is actually a period of time where our immunity is a little bit higher , inflammation is a bit lower and recovery is actually generally pretty good . Endorphins are higher at this period of time and studies have actually found that strength and force production is higher . Vo2 max is increased . So , like , how much ? You know how much and how well your you know your body is using oxygen during exercise . So women across the board actually do experience , or can experience , more strength gains in their menstrual phase , which might be a little counterintuitive based on some of the information online , but ultimately that lower hormone load leads to increased resilience in the body . So if someone is feeling really good , that can be a time to challenge yourself from a workout performance perspective .

Jillian Greaves 8:04

That being said , a lot of women aren't feeling their best , you know , during their period , in that menstrual bleeding phase , in which case , you know , we always want to respond to that , listen to that and lean into more rest , if that's what the body is asking for , with then entering the follicular phase again . This is where estrogen is increasing . Estrogen is on the rise and this is a period of time I will say generally and I know we'll talk a little bit more about symptomatic periods and different things going on but the follicular phase is generally a period of time where women feel pretty good , energy is higher and we kind of experience or feel more vitality throughout the follicular phase , and research does suggest that strength adaptation , muscle recovery , is better . Inflammation continues to be lower during this time in our cycle . So the follicular phase is usually a good time to challenge yourself , to focus on higher intensity exercise , strength gains and things that are maybe pushing the body a little bit more , when our resilience and our recovery is higher .

Jillian Greaves 9:17

Something interesting to note about this rise in estrogen is that this does have some systemic kind of impacts on the body . One notable one is that our cells are actually more sensitive to insulin in the follicular phase , meaning we are better at utilizing glucose energy from food but , interestingly , carb storage and access to carbohydrates

The Phases of the Menstrual Cycle Explained

Jillian Greaves 9:43

in our muscle and our liver is a little bit more difficult . You know , what does all of that mean ? Essentially , we may want to amp up our carbohydrate intake , particularly around training . In the follicular phase , our body's going to be really great at utilizing that you know energy . However , it's not quite as efficient at tapping into energy stored in our muscles or in our liver . So overall , I think on a foundational level in the follicular phase , I really emphasize , with women focusing on the foundations and a really balanced diet , consistent eating overall , but then really considering possibly amping up our carbohydrate intake to make sure that we have a lot of energy readily available , particularly if we are amping up our training at this time .

Philip Pape 10:36

Okay , this is great . I know we didn't get to the other two phases yet in the great detail you just went to , but I'm glad we stopped there because this is exciting to understand that you can leverage . You know how you feel during these phases or how your body responds , knowing that that is maybe unique to you , but also a thing that's going to happen periodically . And that's kind of getting to the questions about how do we then look at our training on an individual basis , not on a general basis , right , because you said some women feel terrible during the menstruation period , and I was actually thinking I was going to ask you a little side question about particular conditions , like endometriosis is a big one that affects a lot of women . I think it's like 25% now . It's a huge number , including some people I know personally , and that definitely affects all of this . Where does that come in , or do we keep that for like a separate discussion ?

Jillian Greaves 11:25

Yeah , I mean we can chat about that now and I think there , cause there's so many directions you could go here and I think I'm talking about all right , you know , in a general sense , when these fluctuations are happening , how are they impacting the body ? How can we support those things on a foundational level ? When I think about endometriosis , I think about there being issues with estrogen and how we're breaking down and metabolizing estrogen . I think about the immune component in terms of that pro-inflammatory state that's often , you know , kind of goes hand in hand with endometriosis , the gut imbalances that play a role here . So we want to consider those factors , you know , 100% and for someone you know , say , with endometriosis , that's having , you know , issues with estrogen in terms of maybe they're overproducing estrogen , maybe they're metabolizing their estrogen in a way that's creating certain estrogen metabolites that are more , you know , inflammatory or more proliferative . They may not be experiencing these shifts exactly how I'm describing them , and maybe they don't feel great . During that follicular phase , as you know , estrogen is increasing . In that case I , you know , I always say , first and foremost , listen to your body , listen to your body . The worst thing that we can do is ignore how our body's communicating with us . So if the body's asking for more rest or asking you to peel back on , you know the intensity of movement . So important to respond to that In a general sense .

Jillian Greaves 12:46

For you know someone with endometriosis and say , those issues with estrogen and you know , maybe gut imbalances or the immune kind of pro-inflammatory elements . We may also want to and this is where we can get a little bit more zoomed in but first and foremost always need to focus on those foundations , make sure , like you know , blood sugar is balanced , we're eating enough . All those core foundations are dialed in From there . Maybe we do focus on some micro strategies with food and we're bringing in , you know , foods that help support , you know , healthy estrogen metabolism and clearance . For example , you know we know cruciferous vegetables that are rich in sulforaphane can help with how we're processing estrogens and also have really great anti-inflammatory benefits . So you know , maybe we're kind of focusing on incorporating more of those cruciferous vegetables throughout .

Jillian Greaves 13:37

You know the follicular phase leading up to that estrogen peak . Maybe we're really amping up and diversifying our fiber intake . Fiber plays a really important role in , you know one supporting , you know , gut health , the gut ecosystem , our intestinal lining , regulation of the immune system , but it's also something that helps with , you know , binding and eliminating excess estrogens if we need support with that estrogen clearance . So there's things that we can do that get a little bit more zoomed in , um , you know , and and can really be beneficial , depending on you know kind of the case . And that's where I think it's like , you know , let's focus on those foundations and then pay attention to what our body is communicating with us throughout the cycle .

Philip Pape 14:21

Yeah , for sure . Uh , and there's a lot of things in there that would trigger people , and they're the exact type of things that I mentioned that trigger people . But like , what's wrong with fiber and micronutrients ? Right , like eating a huge , diverse variety of fruits and vegetables , but you know there's the carnivore camp and some other camps that kind of have a little bit of misinformation on that . And so that leads me back to the follicular phase .

Philip Pape 14:41

When you talked about muscle recovery adaptation , you also said the insulin sensitivity goes up , but glucose uptake doesn't necessarily follow . But that only means that you can't tap as quickly into your naturally stored glycogen , which I recommend . Most people lifting weights don't train fasted anyway and like , have at least a huge carb-based meal at night , which generally disrupts sleep , or , better yet , eat before you work out in the morning , which is some carbs . It doesn't . It can be a banana or you know , depending . What are your thoughts on that , on carbs in general , on some of the messaging around carbs , on some of this stuff about like , well , women over 40 need to eat low carb and it's a whole thing . So let's clear that up . I know that could be its own episode .

Carbohydrates and Women's Health

Jillian Greaves 15:28

I know , oh my gosh , could it be ? Yeah , you know I .

Jillian Greaves 15:29

I will honestly say that low carb diets are like the bane of my existence in terms of my , my work in in the women's health space and , I would say , most all clients we work with . We are working to bring more carbohydrates , more quality carbohydrates , in into their diet . And I think what people often don't understand is that low-carb diets , particularly like these ultra-low-carb diets that we see women on , where there's not even a target there , it's like let's just eat as little carbohydrates as possible . This is a stressor on the body . It's incredibly stressful and if we are experiencing blood sugar crashes , blood sugar dips , in relation to not eating enough carbohydrates , if we're not eating enough carbohydrates to actually support recovery and muscle protein synthesis and all of these things , it's really working against us at the end of the day . And something I always say really working against us at the end of the day and something I always say which is like I understand I know is like a very oversimplified , you know message , but I think it hits home with people is that carbs calm cortisol . So if we are not eating enough carbohydrates , you know we can actually experience dysregulation with cortisol .

Jillian Greaves 16:39

One of our you know primary stress hormones , which is a you know one of its biggest jobs is to keep blood sugar regulated and to make sure that we have adequate energy for the body to use to sustain day-to-day activities and functioning . So for a lot of women that we work with , I think that hits home in terms of eating enough food in general , but particularly making sure we're getting enough carbohydrates can really help to support the body's stress resilience , to help , you know , with balancing the nervous system , supporting metabolic health , and we can actually , like , reap the benefits of our workouts versus having it be , you know , having workouts be in the context of , you know , poor stress resilience , blood sugar wonkiness , and we're kind of again throwing gasoline on the fire or working against ourselves at the end of the day , yeah , you said so many critical things there , as well as some of the unsung benefits of carbs that I think are really important .

Philip Pape 17:35

I just want to reemphasize three that you mentioned . So people really get that message by saying it's a stressor on the body . I love that , because now you could get the thought that you're dieting while not dieting . That's kind of the phrase I've used . Right , like , when you're low carb , even if your calories are quote unquote sufficient , you're still lacking significant resources for certain things that you care about when you're trying to lift weights , improve your body composition , even just move in general , and then you probably stack on top of that chronic forms of cardio that further exacerbate the issue . So that is huge . You mentioned muscle protein synthesis . You just kind of snuck it in there and people are like what does she mean ? Isn't that what protein's for ? Right , but it's a . What do we call it ? Anti-catabolic ? I assume you're talking about the anti-catabolic effects of carbs . Are there any other aspects related to muscle synthesis you want to highlight there ?

Jillian Greaves 18:20

I think , ultimately , I think the big ones being carbs and protein together . Protein gets a lot of attention , but really the that we work with the foundation is often so shaky we need to start there first . So , overall , let's make sure we're eating consistent meals , blood sugars regulated , with meals that contain adequate carbs , adequate protein , so the you know kind of time period , specifically post-workout , post-training , where we can kind of optimize that muscle protein synthesis , the building and repair of lean muscle , and that's where we can kind of bring in carbs and protein in a more targeted way to kind of support that process and optimize recovery and kind of what we're , you know , usually looking to achieve with workouts .

Philip Pape 19:23

Yeah , it's funny you mentioned the foundational stuff you know usually looking to achieve with workouts . Yeah , it's funny , you mentioned the foundational stuff . I think of some of the questions that I just automatically ask clients in their onboarding it's like do you train fasted ? You know like , do you train ? Let me know , be honest right now , let's nip that in the bud . Yeah , not that people can't , I'm just saying that's just one example . So then , and then a couple other things you mentioned .

Philip Pape 19:39

One was cortisol , which again gets a lot of . There's a lot of mystery around it . I did have someone recently on the on the show where we talked about kind of similar to you . You know all the myths around it , how cortisol is really just a lagging indicator of what's going on with your stress system . And there's all these things upstream that can affect not only the production of cortisol but the timing and the cycling of your cortisol . And you're right when people I mean anecdotally , like you probably have worked with hundreds thousands of clients you see , adding in those carbs like generally nothing but wonderful results within days or weeks it's like , oh my gosh , what was I missing all these years ?

Philip Pape 20:13

Oh my gosh , I feel better . Oh my gosh , I can do this and that . Or I'm starting to lose fat or whatever . It's crazy . And the only time I'd ever recommend low carbs is when you are in a calorie deficit and it tends to follow the calories right , like I'm in a fat loss phase now . So my carbs are only 150 and not 400 , you know what I mean , but they're not like 30 , you know .

Jillian Greaves 20:32

Right , and and you , you know , I think , carefully selected the word phase , right , you know where it's like an intentional phase where we're making adjustments with , you know , caloric intake , with carbohydrate intake , and I think what we see is , you know , women that have been trying to , you know , cut carbs and eat low calorie for a decade , right ? So , um , yeah , I think that's a you know keyword that you use in terms of phase and the intentionality behind that .

Philip Pape 21:02

Oh , yeah , yeah , yeah . No listeners , listeners anybody who's listened to the show for a while know how much I love cutting bulking phases , stair step , like really making it work for you . And then the other thing you mentioned at some point you mentioned it was blood sugar and insulin . You kind of alluded to it . One of the fears is blood sugar spikes . I talked to someone who had a CGM you know continuous glucose monitor for listeners and she said she stopped eating potatoes because her blood sugar was spiking . I'm like we got to get some education here , right ?

Philip Pape 21:28

It's like blood sugar spikes are normal . They're going to happen . They're especially going to happen when you're only eating carbs . But there's lots of things to mitigate them with . You mentioned balanced meals . I think you mentioned balanced meals , yeah , and also lifting weights mitigates it , Walking mitigates it . But let's just touch on that real quick again , because people are afraid about insulin sensitivity . You know , pre-diabetes metabolic disease , getting fat from carbs , like that blood sugar piece of it .

Jillian Greaves 21:52

Yeah , and you know , understandably so , with all the , you know , kind of misinformation out there . But you know , ultimately we need carbs to support and regulate our blood sugar . But we always have to think about the context . So you know to your point carbs are supposed to be easily digested , they are supposed to make our blood sugar rise . We recommend eating a potato alone as your meal . No , right , because that's going to produce a bigger , more rapid spike in blood sugar and insulin . That's where we want to think about food pairings and combinations . So we always want to ideally make sure that we're , especially at meals , incorporating carbohydrates alongside adequate protein , alongside fiber , alongside healthy fats , all of which are going to help to slow down the digestion of glucose and to kind of elongate the blood sugar curve after we eat , to prevent big spikes and crashes or kind of riding that blood sugar roller coaster . But again , it's important for , I think , people to know that if you know our body isn't getting , you know , energy , carbohydrates from food , it's going to find it elsewhere . And that's where , again , we you know for experiencing , say , you know , blood sugar crashes or lows because we're , you know , prolonging our overnight fast way too long , or you know we're skipping meals . We're eating low carb , our overnight fast , way too long . We're skipping meals . We're eating low carb .

Jillian Greaves 23:20

What happens is the body's going to sense that low energy availability and it's going to start pumping out cortisol , which is by definition a glucocorticoid , meaning again , one of its primary jobs is to help regulate blood sugar . So cortisol is going to tap into carbohydrate stores in our liver and our muscles and kind of dump that into the bloodstream to normalize things . At the same time it's also going to tell our cells to become more insulin , more resistant to insulin . So you know it will kind of impede or impair our ability to kind of utilize , you know , carbohydrates efficiently . So it kind of backfires at the end of the day when we're just sort of like arbitrarily kind of cutting carbs , going low carb .

Jillian Greaves 24:05

So ultimately we want to experience a rise in blood sugar after eating . We just want that to be more stable . We want slow , rolling hills throughout the day versus , like , the big peaks and valleys . And that's where I think there's just so much misinformation and lack of education out there . And I think you know we really strive to do with the women we work with is to get them feeling confident with how to actually like . Utilize carbohydrates to enhance how your body is functioning and to enhance how you're feeling , and to support that you know healthy blood sugar regulation .

Philip Pape 24:37

Yeah , yeah , it's like these hormones are agnostic , right . Hormones aren't out to get you and something like insulin is extremely beneficial tool for us , especially when we're active and lifting . It's the resistance and it's the counteracting that with the lifestyle choices like cutting carbs that tend to make the difference . All right , I know we got off a very valuable tangent , but let's getting back to the cycle syncing . You mentioned a few things in the research about in general . Everything's a normal curve right For the population in the menstruation cycle and follicular . That could be potentially the higher recovery , higher performance part of the half of the month . Does that mean the other half in relative terms might feel like a drain to a lot of women or is it more of a baseline ?

Jillian Greaves 25:20

Yeah , great question .

Jillian Greaves 25:21

So I would say , entering the luteal phase , that kind of like final or fourth phase of the menstrual cycle , is where some more significant changes occur that can and should

Physiological Changes in the Luteal Phase

Jillian Greaves 25:35

impact how women feel . I don't want to make it seem like , you know , we're robots and nothing is happening internally and we should feel like you know , exactly the same every day throughout our cycle . Experiencing subtle shifts is normal , and when I say subtle shifts I'm talking , you know , some subtle shifts with energy , maybe some subtle shifts with mood or stress resilience , but these things should be subtle and not wildly disruptive . We shouldn't be experiencing extreme anxiety in our luteal phase . Digestive symptoms , exhaustion , crazy mood swings these are all indications that likely the body needs deeper support and there are some bigger , more significant imbalances at play that might need to be addressed . But I would say again , in a general sense , going into the luteal phase , that second half of the cycle , so that's where you know progesterone and estrogen are , you know , going to be higher . This combination or I kind of refer to it as , like you know , the one-two punch of having both of these hormones being higher does decrease our stress resilience , so our body is less resilient to stress .

Jillian Greaves 26:43

Our immune system is actually altered and the body is in a more pro-inflammatory state throughout the luteal phase and essentially the increase in progesterone . In particular , it increases our sympathetic drive , so the body having more of an affinity for kind of that fight or flight mode . Progesterone also increases the breakdown of muscle , so it's essentially catabolic and that's to prioritize the uterus over skeletal muscle . During the luteal phase our core body temperature increases , or there's more issues with thermoregulation or ability to maintain body temperature . Blood sugar is also impacted where we are a little bit less sensitive to insulin on a cellular level . Our breathing rates are impacted , so there are more significant changes . A couple other things to note would be sodium absorption is decreased . Our energy expenditure at rest actually also increases a little bit anywhere from like 2% to 10% , so not crazy . From anywhere from like 2% to 10% , so not crazy . But we actually may need more energy , more calories , during this phase of our cycle .

Jillian Greaves 28:05

So I would say , in general , the luteal phase is a time where the body overall is just a bit less resilient . Does that mean you can't do any type of movement ? No , absolutely not . But in general I tend to consider the luteal phase as a period of time where women can benefit from more steady state cardio , from low impact , strength training , mobility work and focusing on recovery if we were pushing it a little bit harder , say in the follicular phase . So I think it's just important to acknowledge those physiological shifts and we'll work with many women , as an example , that are going to Orange Theory and trying to hit PRs three to five days a week and they're doing that every single week throughout their cycle , despite maybe not feeling so great in the luteal phase . And you know they might notice um going , you know , engaging in those higher intensity workouts during the luteal phase , you know their sleep is disrupted , their energy is crashing , their digestion is off , um . So which would all be signs that , hey , you know , maybe the context right now , um isn't the time for the ultra high intensity workouts and maybe we need to peel , peel back a little bit . So definitely some some shifts happening in the luteal phase that I would say are more significant . One thing to note too is that the body , actually there's increased fat , fat utilization in the luteal phase , based on what's happening hormonally . To kind of bring all of this together from like a recommendation , you know , action based standpoint , the luteal phase , to kind of bring all of this together from like a recommendation , you know , action-based standpoint , the luteal phase .

Jillian Greaves 29:39

Generally we may need to eat a little bit more . So , you know , always eat to hunger , make sure we're responding to hunger and not kind of , you know , trying to white knuckle it and then overeating . At the end of the day , if our body is hungry , let's respond to that . We may benefit from increasing protein and fat intake a little bit . So , again , fat utilization is a little bit higher because progesterone is catabolic . We may want to incorporate more protein to support that , to support lean muscle .

Jillian Greaves 30:10

And from a carbohydrate perspective , we absolutely are still going to want to incorporate carbohydrates consistently , but we may put a little bit of less of an emphasis on carbohydrates during this timeframe than we did , say , in the follicular phase , where we want to make sure we have that readily available glucose to fuel our workout .

Jillian Greaves 30:29

So we still want to support consistent carb intake , but we may be focusing more so on protein and on fats , which I think , naturally too , a lot of women kind of gravitate towards in terms of like , we're a little bit hungrier , cravings are a little bit higher and protein and fats are really these deeply satiating foods and really help with that blood sugar regulation . This might also be a period of time where we kind of , if we're taking more of a micro focus on things , we may really amp up our anti-inflammatory intake . So we're in more of that you know , kind of pro-inflammatory state Again , you know recovery isn't as great . So that might be a way that we can really support our body with increasing , you know , anti-inflammatories and that might mean , you know , incorporating more of our you know bright , colorful fruits and veggies . Are , you know , herbs and spices , are you know beets are cruciferous veggies , are fatty fish and things that are , you know , kind of flooding the body with more you know kind of compounds that are helping to kind of counteract or combat that pro-inflammatory state .

Philip Pape 31:32

Yeah , this is great . There's a lot , lots of unpack as they in there . One thing that stands out to me is tying back to listening to your body earlier , the idea of your hunger signals . Once you get the foundations which I know you've said multiple times it's like having the foundation of good balance lots of fruits and vegetables , micronutrients , just a good baseline . I suspect your hunger signals are better in line .

Philip Pape 31:57

And if you're not constantly dieting , constantly cutting carbs , constantly doing massive chronic cardio , then that puts you in a position where , if your body has a little more hunger in one phase versus another , you can follow it , and I can attest to that anecdotally . I've definitely worked with women who I always like to start people with very , very simple protocols because we don't know yet , and then you find they tend to eat more calories at this point , and then they're perfectly fine over here and like oh okay , there's a pattern and you're a woman , so I suspect what it might be . Let's

Finding Balance Between Listening and Pushing

Philip Pape 32:27

make sure we're tracking that along with your period . I'm a big tracking and data nerd . So which leads to my next question , jillian , which is are there measures that would help enhance your understanding of this , like HRV , because you mentioned the resilience level and the parasympathetic gap shortens and things like that .

Jillian Greaves 32:43

Yeah , love that . So absolutely , for people that have an aura ring or a whoop or something that can give you a little bit of feedback about what's going on in your body , you will likely notice , even if you're not super symptomatic , things will likely notice , even if you know you're not super symptomatic , things are really balanced , dialed in with your nutrition lifestyle . You will notice that your HRV is likely lower in the luteal phase . You'll notice that your you know body temperature is elevated . You know if there's , if your tracking device is kind of looking at I know like the Oura Ring specifically , can kind of track you know pockets of you know rest and recovery versus you know pockets that you're in a more stressed out state .

Jillian Greaves 33:27

You may notice there being some significant shifts going from the follicular phase to the luteal phase and maybe not having changed anything or having any external factors that are driving that and that's kind of based on these internal physiological shifts that we're describing and that's normal , that's normal .

Jillian Greaves 33:47

And so , again , I think it's listening to how your body's communicating with you and I think you know giving yourself permission in those situations to rest a little bit more to you know really focus on , you know nourishment and you know not trying to , um , do the same thing every day , all all month long ? Um , because you know the benefits of , you know any type of exercise , but particularly if we're talking about challenging ourselves . You know the benefits of you know any type of exercise , but particularly if we're talking about challenging ourselves . You know the HIIT workouts and things like that . You know context is king at the end of the day . So you know stress from exercise is healthy and adaptive and can improve our resilience in the right context . In the wrong context , that's where we're , you know , may end up creating more symptoms for ourselves or , you know , kind of creating barriers with the goals that we're working towards .

Philip Pape 34:36

So context is everything , Don't force it . Listen to your body and people get frustrated with those responses the it depends response . But it really does come down to that . No , I don't .

Stephanie 34:47

The most value that I got from this was the fact that I had someone that I could talk to about anything and that there was going to be no judgment . It was just well , here are your goals , here's the best way that you're going to achieve it , and then let's work together to help you feel inspired and motivated to do that . Do that and there's a lot of people out there trying to be coaches , and not all of them have done the work and also just be a genuine person that is positive and coming from the heart in terms of wanting to help , and Philip really embodied all of those qualities . I would recommend him to just about anyone that's looking to achieve goals in that realm of their nutrition and building new habits .

Philip Pape 35:33

So , but speaking of that , I know there are other extremes of this . Where and this is where maybe the diet culture and the marketing side of this goes haywire is when I hear listen to your body . That can have such a spectrum of interpretation , one being , uh , an excuse not to train hard , for example . And by training hard , like , again , my audience is a lot of you know . We talk about strength training , lifting . Um , we don't really classify it as like heavy versus intense or anything . It's just progressive overload , getting stronger , building muscle , whatever makes sense for you . But what ? I would be remiss if somebody hears the message and says okay , well , I'm just a little bit down in this part of my cycle , so I'm going to completely change my programming and I'm not going to lift heavy weights or whatever it is that my program states . What are your thoughts on that ?

Jillian Greaves 36:16

Yeah , I think it's there . There's definitely a balance there and , you know , I think this can also kind of loop back to you know , assessing the context in terms of you know what's going on in terms of why might I be feeling this way ? You know , how did I sleep last night ? What are my stress levels ? You know , like , how's my ? You know how are my nervous system outlets ? Am I , you know , fueling really well ? You know , whenever your body's kind of giving you some signals of any sort , whether it be , you know , low energy disrupted sleep digestion is off , mood is off , you know , aim to pause . Energy disrupted sleep digestion is off , mood is off , you know , aim to pause , take a step back and kind of assess what's going on here and what does my body actually need If we identify that , you know , yeah , I'm in my luteal phase but , like I've been fueling well , my stress is low , I'm sleeping really good . You know , maybe I actually do just need to get out there and move my body and that's what's going to help , you know , kind of shift things and help me to feel better . And I'll pay attention to how I feel during that workout and in the hours after , I think , that being an important piece of things that can often give us some helpful information .

Jillian Greaves 37:24

I don't know if you agree with this , totally open to your thoughts , but I do find , particularly with talking about , say , like luteal phase shifts , paying attention to , you know , energy , in particular , like you know , during , immediately after and in the hours after , can be helpful . If we're feeling good while , you know , while we're working out , we're feeling good afterwards and our , you know , energy is good and consistent beyond that great , you know that's , you know , awesome , that's probably a sign that things are well balanced . If we're doing that workout and 2-3 hours later we're crashing and we feel like we need to take a nap and we can't focus and there are symptoms popping up there , that's where I'd say we need to make adjustments . What I don't want cycle syncing to come across as is that , like you know , women are , you know , weak and can't work out for , you know , half of the month .

Jillian Greaves 38:17

That is the opposite of what I'm . You know what I'm saying . You know , women are , you know , strong AF , and it's so important to not kind of let this external information tell you that like , oh , I can't do something at a certain time . First and foremost , listen to your body , you know . If you're feeling good , you know , give it a try , focus on all those foundations . But I think if it's hard with the , you know again like , say , the motivation piece or the making excuses , because , as always , there's like so much .

Philip Pape 38:48

Yeah , no , I feel you and and for sure you , you you're not coming across at all as portraying women that way at all and I always , you know , could get into hot water when I , when I talk about women in general , just you know , especially in modern society . But uh , I know women that I've coached tend to be like super , like , extremely committed and dedicated and seem to recover almost and take more volume than some men in terms of like attacking the hard thing that they need to do . Again , these are just generalizations because there's plenty of men that are , you know , but I like that . You said that basically there is a fine balance , and you asked if I agree with what you're saying . I totally agree .

Philip Pape 39:26

I think there's fatigue and recovery issues that we have to be almost more cognizant of than necessarily the stimulus side of our workout . We almost need to just pick a baseline to try for our training . Whether that's a volume or intensity-based approach , you don't know how you're going to respond until you've trained right Like beginners , just don't know . So it's always best to start really simple and don't put a lot of movements in there , Don't put a ton of volume and try to constantly be getting your heart rate up . Just keep it simple right . Keep a lot of recovery , a lot of space in there , and then you can say okay , my back's feeling good , you know I'm sleeping fine , I'm able to go in and progress a little bit .

Philip Pape 40:04

The excuse part in my head comes from the small subset of folks who will say , like in my head comes from the small subset of folks who will say , like it's just hard , and now , because I have this other thing going on , I'm not going to do it . And again , it's not a women thing , it's a men thing too , trust me . So I don't know where I'm going with all that , jillian , but I think people think about these things , so

Birth Control: Problems and Misconceptions

Philip Pape 40:22

so do I . Totally All right . So we touched on cycle syncing from the research a bit . Is there anything else , I guess , in the research that you think is particularly notable or that we've discovered , especially lately , as this topic's been learned more about ? I know women's health has been like a black box for so long and we're starting to finally do research around this . Is there anything else people should know about it ?

Jillian Greaves 40:45

Yeah , I think we kind of covered the big rocks with , you know , cycle syncing or you know kind of what's happening with these shifts throughout our menstrual cycle and kind of some foundational shifts that we can make . I think one thing I'd mention , which I think you've covered on the podcast , is just for women in particular of reproductive age and maybe kind of reconsidering the prolonged fasting or the fasted workouts really at any time in their cycle . That's kind of one additional side note that I would mention .

Philip Pape 41:23

Cool . No , it's a good one . You mean not doing it at all ? Yes , I agree , I always put this tiny caveat of like , well small subset of people may find that they thrive on it , but that's more of my like , cya , because somebody out there is going to say that it works great for them , they don't have any issues , blah , blah , blah and . But in reality , don't do it . It's kind of like the advice where you can you build muscle on low carbs . Ah , there's some people that do it , but why do it ? You just have the carbs flooding in your system . It'll make it a lot easier . Um , what about ?

Philip Pape 41:54

Okay , so birth control , irregular cycles ? I don't know , those are two separate things . But especially birth control is a super hot topic and I know your thoughts on it , cause I've seen your social media and I know a lot of women's thoughts on it as well as my own . Uh , I don't like it . I don't like birth control because of the , because of a lot of things , especially the pressure on young women to do it like get it over the counter . It's like it's treated like candy , almost compared to bioidentical hormone replacement therapy , which is somehow evil , and yet that's super helpful for a lot of women , so take it away .

Jillian Greaves 42:25

Yeah , I love , love this topic so much and , yeah , definitely something I'm very passionate about and was honestly like a part of my own health journey a decade ago . But ultimately , I always like to preface conversations like this by mentioning I'm never anti-medication . Medication can be a helpful tool and I always support clients' autonomy to make decisions that feel really great for them . There , the big issue that I have , the two big issues I have with birth control in particular , are one , the lack of informed consent in terms of women really not being given all the information they need to actually make educated , empowered decisions around birth control , and the other big issue that I have is , ultimately , birth control being used to treat every women's health symptom and ailment under the sun .

Philip Pape 43:18

You know if you have an irregular From a very young age , from a very young age , from a very young age . It's horrifying .

Jillian Greaves 43:23

You know if you have an absence .

Philip Pape 43:24

I have two daughters , just so you know , because that's why it kind of pisses me off .

Jillian Greaves 43:27

Oh my gosh , yeah , and so great that you have this . You know knowledge , though , because I think you know so often , um , you know we , we , we trust our doctors and you know if they're recommending birth control , that you know we're gonna . You know , especially for for parents , you know they're trying to do , do the best they can for , you know , their , their young daughters , um , but ultimately it's birth control is really overused and abused and I think in in my practice , I'm seeing a lot of the implications of that . Ultimately , where you know , I think it's something like over 50 of birth control you know is used for non-pregnancy prevention reasons . I wouldn't even be surprised if the statistic is higher than that I can believe that right .

Jillian Greaves 44:08

So it's like you know , if you don't have a period um , if your period's irregular , if your period's heavy , if it's painful , if you have acne , if you have you know mood swings , if you have endometriosis if you have .

Jillian Greaves 44:19

PBLI , the first line of intervention is birth control , and the reason that's so frustrating is because you know hormonal birth control , particularly , you know the oral contraceptive , the combined oral contraceptive , which is most commonly used . It's essentially , you know , disrupting communication between the brain and the ovaries . It is shutting down the reproductive system or kind of shutting your own hormones off . So , although this may provide , say , some symptom relief , it's a big fat bandaid , you know , at the end of the day , and what's most bothersome is that you know people aren't asking the question why , why don't we have a regular period ? There's a reason that you know our period and consistent ovulation is considered a fifth vital sign . Why are our periods extremely painful or heavy or symptomatic ? These things don't happen for no reason , and that's a lot of the work that we do with clients in terms of let's dig a little bit deeper here and ask the question why and actually understand why these symptoms are happening , what imbalances are driving them and how can we really support the body back to balance . And it's really , yeah , really devastating for women who you know , for example , will work with clients that have , you know , were put on birth control because they're you know they didn't have a period , or it was really , you know , irregular when they were in middle school or high school , and you know , 15 years later , they're , you know , come off and they're ready to start their family and their period's still not there , right , and it's you know .

Jillian Greaves 45:56

Or if they're put on birth control for managing or suppressing symptoms , they come off and those symptoms come back with vengeance and they feel , you know , like , oh my gosh , I'm at square one . What do I do here ? And then , when they seek out support from their healthcare provider , often it's like birth control or bust . So that's the issue I have is that women aren't given all the information to make those informed decisions , to understand how is this birth control actually working in my body , what are the pros and cons , the potential side effects that I should be aware of , and also , you know , just the lack of investigative work in terms of actually understanding why women are experiencing symptoms . And women deserve better . They deserve better and we can get to the bottom of these things and , you know , often eliminate these symptoms naturally , get the period back , get us ovulating regularly , naturally , but women aren't even given that opportunity , which is wildly frustrating .

Philip Pape 46:51

Yeah , I mean it's . It's funny , the discussion around birth control almost never has to do with it being a prophylactic at this point which tells you something .

Philip Pape 46:58

And then , um , you know again , you you call it the fifth vital sign , which is amazing because we we know like amenorrhea can be caused by lots of these lifestyle changes we already addressed , like the lower carbs , the lower calories , low energy availability is one right . You see that in physique competitors particularly and then some other sorts of issue that might be happening that you want to resolve first . So I'm glad that you work with women on those kinds of things and it sounds like you come to it from a natural , generally a natural position at first , but aren't precluding medications when needed , which is a great balanced approach to have , in my opinion . On a lighter note , but potentially it could get controversial , are you open to a few rapid fire questions here ? Just like short answers are fine . I came up with four that I thought might be interesting . So the first one is what's the biggest false claim about synchro psyche , synchro cycle , synching ?

Jillian Greaves 47:45

Yeah that .

Rapid Fire Questions on Women's Health

Jillian Greaves 47:49

I would say that cycle syncing is the solution to PCOS endometriosis and these actual endocrine metabolic conditions . That is it .

Philip Pape 48:02

Download my free guide to fix PCOS with cycle syncing . All right , what's the most overrated hormone-supporting supplement ?

Jillian Greaves 48:09

Oh , I would say DIM .

Philip Pape 48:14

Okay , tell us more . People don't know what that is .

Jillian Greaves 48:16

DIM or diendylmethane is . I'm butchering that , but DIM is a really common compound found in hormone balancing supplements A lot of really popular , trendy ones and it's a compound that can actually influence the overall levels of estrogen and how we're breaking down and metabolizing estrogen , and I see a lot of women kind of taking it willy-nilly . I have hormonal acne , I have painful periods , and it's something that can be beneficial in the right context , but without lab data and an assessment , I see women sort of taking DIM willy-nilly and so , yeah , no , it's good to know .

Philip Pape 49:03

I mean , I'm sure there's a whole list you could have come up with . That's just one . What's the worst advice you've seen , just in general , about hormones ? I know it's kind of a general question , oh gosh .

Jillian Greaves 49:15

So much bad advice . Yeah , the worst advice in general with hormones , I think , a specific one that doesn't come to mind in isolation . I would say just in general , the like very zoomed in , like micro strategy recommendations that I kind of mentioned this early on in relation to cycle syncing , but I think it stems from the , the influence influencer of , like you know , steal , my hormone balancing morning routine . I have , you know , my green powder and then , um , you know , my lemon water and this and that , and it's not that those things can't be , you know , beneficial or or helpful , but I would say , just all these like zoomed in recommendations that totally missed the forest for the trees . There's no personalization or customization . I think that's what kind of keeps women on on the symptom hamster wheel .

Philip Pape 50:08

Ah , so , so great . I have another small . I have another podcast , experimental podcast , called Nutrition Science Daily , and almost every episode I try to have some sort of boogeyman trigger like that . You mentioned lemon water . I think I had an episode about lemons and it's like , like you said , could , could these be helpful ? Beneficial for something ? Yeah , oh , maybe for electrolytes ? Yeah , but it's not going to solve all your problems and burn fat and fix your hormones .

Stephanie 50:26

So that's , that's the key .

Philip Pape 50:28

Um , all right , last one . This is going to be an interesting one . What are your thoughts on male coaches working with women ?

Jillian Greaves 50:33

Yeah , so you know , I , I'm all for it . If you know the the male coach is , um , you know , respectful of and takes female physiology into consideration . You know , I think in any situation , if you're a female coach or a male coach , it's important to , you know , have some level of understanding of female physiology , you know , depending on , like , where an individual is at in the life cycle and what's happening with hormones , you know , not even just speaking to , like , the menstrual cycle and the reproductive years . But I think it's important to have some education , you know , with female physiology and to take that into account and to not , you know , kind of treat , you know , male and female clients as exactly the same , because there's , you know , a lot of physiological differences there .

Philip Pape 51:27

Yeah , for sure . No , I'm always curious about that because I can say that my women clients have been one of my best teachers about women's physiology . But at the same time , I do encourage any coach , like you said , men or women to be educated on a lot of these nuances and also be skeptical of what you're reading and where the source of the information is , because I love bringing you on the podcast here because we can discuss that it is a nuanced thing and that you shouldn't ever go overboard and that it's personal . So , with that said , what does the process look like if someone either wants to work with you or just in general , figure this stuff out , because it sounds complicated ? If you're listening to the show , you're like man , she covered a lot of things and we're just scratching the surface . How can we take off that stress a little bit ?

Jillian Greaves 52:09

Yeah , and you know it . It at the end of the day it doesn't . It doesn't have to be complicated . I know it can can sound like that when we're , you know , hitting on all sorts of different topics , but you know , at the end of the day , I think , when you you have , you know , custom support and a clear plan and you're not trying to , like , you know , pick and choose and throw things at the wall and see what sticks , it all comes together then .

Jillian Greaves 52:31

But in terms of you know , working with us , you can find out a little bit more about you know how me and my dietitians work with clients on my website , which is just JillianGreevescom . We work with people in a , with women specifically , in a six-month container . So you know , as you know , healing , achieving goals takes time , so we require a six-month container . So , as you know , healing , achieving goals takes time . So we require that six-month commitment and really support clients comprehensively , from lab testing , nutrition , lifestyle supplements , mind-body techniques and really kind of try to lay out a clear blueprint with that deep customization to remove the overwhelm and ideally , help women get to where they want to go .

Philip Pape 53:09

Awesome and I definitely have an abundance mindset when it comes to when other coaches on my show I'm like . I want to recommend Jillian here because , just through our conversation and our back and forth , I highly respect what you do and where you come from and the approach you take . So if anybody is looking for exactly what Jillian provides , having a coach for any issues you have is going to accelerate things massively , and I don't say that just because I'm a coach for any issues you have is going to accelerate things massively . I don't say that just because I'm a coach . I believe it and that's why I became a coach . So , having said all that , go to JillianGreevescom . Jillian has been fantastic . I loved our conversation , getting into the weeds and some of these things . Ladies , men , don't cut carbs all the time . Stop training , fasted Support and listen to your body and you're going to thrive out there . So thank you so much , jillian , for coming on .

Jillian Greaves 53:49

Awesome . Thank you for having me .