Building Muscle During Perimenopause

Philip Pape 0:02

If you're over 40 and you've been told that hormonal changes mean you cannot build muscle anymore , or that muscle gain automatically means piling on body fat , this episode is for you . Today I'm talking with my client , cynthia , who's not only lost over 100 pounds , but is now successfully building lean muscle during perimenopause . You'll discover the exact approach she's using to avoid excessive fat gain while increasing muscle mass , why most people are misinformed by the industry about hormones and muscle building , and how to structure your training and nutrition to maximize your body's natural muscle building ability at any age . Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency . I'm your host , philip Pape , and today I'm really excited to introduce you to one of my Physique University students , cynthia . Cynthia has achieved remarkable like incredible results over her fitness journey , both before and as she's worked with us Over that time , losing over 100 pounds , and now she's focused on building quality muscle during perimenopause , and she's taking some of our systems and strategies and applying them to overcome the challenges that a lot of women face as they experience hormonal changes , and I wanted you guys to hear from her the process she's following , the things that have been moving the needle for her , and then how you can apply some of these lessons to your own journey , no matter what age or stage you're in , because it's never too late , it doesn't matter how old you are .

Philip Pape 1:42

You can make this happen for for yourself . So we're going to spend some time diving into cynthia's current goal as well and providing some live , real-time coaching there . There's been no preparation , uh , between us on that , so it's going to be totally seat of the pants here , um , with her goal to add muscle while minimizing fat gain in a transition period . So , cynthia , thank you so much for agreeing to do this and chat with me today .

Cynthia 2:02

Thank you for having me here . It's it's an honor to be here .

Philip Pape 2:05

to be honest , oh , I appreciate it . It's an honor to have met you and to work with you , um , and learn about your , your journey , but also see how much you , um how do I say this Like in the community . Every time you checked in and every time you spoke up , it was like a positive , can do attitude . It's like , no matter what the challenge is , I'm going to find a way . You just strike me as the type of person to do that . And look , you lost over a hundred pounds . Most of that was on your own , before we ever met . I'll just be totally honest about that . And now you're tackling muscle building during perimenopause , which is , like many women believe , it's not possible , right ? So what made you decide to pursue muscle gain at this stage instead of continuing to focus on weight loss ?

Cynthia 2:50

Well , I noticed that people who actually build muscle especially because I started off at 249 pounds that's the farthest that I've ever recorded and I noticed that if I wanted to make this long term like a forever thing , I had to build muscle , especially for the elasticity of my skin , so I didn't have that like hanging skin , loose skin , and so I figured that building muscle was the best option . And then when I found out that building muscle actually helps you burn more calories not by a lot , but it's something I'm like well , let's build the muscle then , and that really encouraged me . And now , entering menopause or perimenopause , actually I realized the importance of building that muscle . And it's not just to look good or feel uh yeah , it's just honestly to to build strong bones , strong skeletal muscle and everything and just be able to last longer and not injure myself as easily , um , as I grow older .

Philip Pape 3:57

Yeah , no . So you mentioned a few really powerful things there . One is the skin elasticity . That's a . That's a cool insight because people don't think about that . But when you have a little extra weight , you , you know , either have some stretch marks or extra skin or loose skin , especially the more overweight you may have been , and people think like none of that's going to go away . How , how has that improved from your journey ? It ?

Cynthia 4:18

has improved a lot , uh , surprisingly , um , and I do consume a lot of collagen along with my protein , um , but it's not . At one point it was a little creepy , but it has . Now that I'm seeing the results and building the muscle with it , it doesn't look as as bad as it once , and it's . It's not absolutely perfect and , to be honest , I don't ever plan to have surgery on it because I'm just not that kind of person .

Cynthia 4:48

I don't do medicine , to be honest , other than just the supplements and you know , vitamin D and all that collagen protein . But it has improved drastically by a lot .

Philip Pape 5:00

So that's great . Yeah , you know that's great because Cause people , people want to know right , Like just that you don't necessarily have to do surgery . Obviously , it depends on how , what level of extreme you want for , and you know if you're if you were 400 pounds , it might be a different story , who knows ? Um , the other thing you mentioned is the idea that it burns more calories and more fat just having the muscle , and so why not make what I'm reading between the lines , why not make fat loss easier by focusing on that part of it ?

Cynthia 5:27

Yep .

Philip Pape 5:27

Yeah , so yeah , I don't know if you want to comment on that .

Cynthia 5:31

Yeah , definitely For me . When I found out that at that time , when I started lifting weights

Cynthia's 100-Pound Weight Loss Journey

Cynthia 5:37

, um , I started off with the adjustable dumbbells and I at that time , probably three or four years ago , I had found out that you can burn about , uh , four to five pounds um once you gain that muscle and I'm like , okay , well , if it helps me burn more and you know you work um , not as hard , to be honest , work smarter , not harder , kind of a thing . Um , I decided to do that .

Philip Pape 6:02

So I think , uh , building muscle is the best choice for me personally yeah , no , for for sure , and I mean there's there's pretty much no reason not to right like that . That's one of so many benefits . And the other one you mentioned , perimenopause , right , which obviously any woman listening knows what it is , but maybe for those who don't right , it's like the time when your hormones start to shift toward menopause , which could take take 10 , 15 years , some women .

Philip Pape 6:24

It starts as early as their mid-30s . But I just saw an Instagram reel posted today by actually it was a post by Lauren Colenso Semple . She was on the show from Mass and she's been posting these claim versus science and the claim is that perimenopause hormones are going to cause muscle loss , or more muscle loss than not being in perimenopause , and the reality is that's not really true . What causes it is you're not training , yeah , and you , like , are doing the opposite , right ?

Cynthia 6:56

Yeah , yeah , and I'm one of those that I've always liked to prove people wrong Not , not in a snobbish way , but I'm like , okay , you say I can't , like , let me just show you there is a better way . You know , yeah , and that's one thing . I have heard a couple of your podcasts with , uh , like the most recent one , the Holly Baxter one , and then also the Nikki Sims , the Adam Badger and you were talking about perimenopause during that time and just being able to build muscle during , like , because one of the things that I would hear often is you're not going to be able to build muscle and you're going to like all the gaslighting , just the lies that doctors promote , and I'm like is there even hope for me ? I just started building , you know , my body just recently , and then when I heard your , your courses and also you talking to Holly and Nikki and Adam , I'm like there is hope . You just have to do the work . You just have to lift the weights , eat enough protein , get enough rest . Basically , it's the same thing that I'm doing right now .

Philip Pape 8:03

And yeah sorry , I'm not trying to cut you off .

Cynthia 8:08

But yeah , that encouraged me , so yeah , yeah , no , again .

Philip Pape 8:11

you're just saying things people need to hear , because it makes me sad to think that there's women that are told they literally cannot build muscle , like that's really shameful , that any and I bet it's by a doctor who themselves doesn't lift weights or something you know probably , but it's , it's that it's so . It's even worse than saying you're going to lose a bunch of muscle because of the hormones . It's saying not only that you can't do anything about it and we want to empower people like that . Ultimately , what you're saying is I want to prove you wrong because I have the power . It's on me to do it , and you can either see that as oh geez , now I have to do this work or I get to do this , like I get to train and build muscle .

Cynthia 8:47

Right , so that's awesome , yeah .

Philip Pape 8:49

Yeah , I know there wasn't a question there . I'm sorry . I like to talk , so I want to . I want to rewind the clock just a little bit , so so folks understand the context here . You lost all that . You lost a bunch of weight too , because people are always looking for weight loss and really we're going to focus more on building and growth and how that helps fat loss . But the a hundred pounds , like , what approach got you through that ? And I know you tried things in the past and I , if I recall correctly , didn't you lose weight in the past several times and then gain it back or something , and then right , and now you did it successfully . So what was successful this time ?

Cynthia 9:20

Well , um , definitely implementing the weightlifting and eating more protein . Protein does satisfy you , which is at first . When I started , I'm like it doesn't . It doesn't satisfy you .

Philip Pape 9:33

But it was because I was so addicted to carbs and other bad nutrients that it was almost kind of going into a withdrawal of carbs for me because I chose the poor foods a withdrawal of carbs , like for me , because I chose the poor foods and I was so hold on that when you say carbs , you mean like processed foods that have carbs and fat and sugar yeah , yeah , I just want to be clear for the not apples no , not apples okay yeah , so like the , the doritos , the takis kind of a thing , and so it's like eating processed , very processed foods and but when I started implementing the protein because when I started the my weight loss journey , I did start tracking , but I wasn't tracking macros , I was just tracking calories and then I started learning about macros .

Cynthia 10:22

And when I started learning about macros I realized I was under eating , way under eating protein . When I changed that and I started eating more protein , probably like in six months , my body started changing and quick , and that was like the fastest I've ever seen it change and shift . And yeah , just eating enough protein , enough fats , enough carbs , like personally , I love being balanced .

Shifting Mindset From Weight Loss to Muscle Gain

Cynthia 10:49

I think they are all good and beneficial for the body , um , but it's not just uh . For me it's not just tracking the calories , it's all of it .

Philip Pape 10:59

That's , that's huge . What you just said is it wasn't about the calorie deficit , even though the end result is a calorie deficit . It was what you were eating , the composition , what you're eating , eating things that nourished you . And it's funny you said protein . You're like , oh , they tell you it's satisfying . It's not Obviously when you're coming from a world of like the dopamine hit of carbs and sugar . It's like having a sweet tooth and then someone says , well , go eat an apple . And you're like , yeah , that's not the same as a Snickers and you kind of have to desensitize and there's a transition period . But then there's also the fullness piece of being satisfied , where it sounds like you didn't focus on cutting stuff , you focus on adding in the right things and then it resulted in more volume , more satisfaction and then lower calories . You weren't trying to necessarily , but it resulted in that . Is that a fair assessment ?

Cynthia 11:45

Yes , yeah , okay .

Philip Pape 11:46

Okay , which is great , because a lot of people I taught you do talk about calories a lot and I do talk about calorie deficits , um , but I I also talk about doing in conjunction with these things . So what now I'm curious about when you join physique university ? I feel like there's two types of folks that join us , um , on hand , you have folks who are kind of new to all this . Maybe they listen to the podcast and they're just trying to figure it out , and they jump in a little frustrated . They're like things haven't worked . I'm looking for guidance and help , and so we give them that , like step by step , and the support You're in the other camp of .

Philip Pape 12:17

You've leveled up your education . You've tried things already . You've gotten to a point that's a little more advanced and I love I love both groups of people honestly , because they both , like , thrill me in their , the level of knowledge that they can get to from that point . So I think of you as a more advanced person , but you still probably had some things you didn't know and that you learned , and I'm curious about what those might have been .

Cynthia 12:39

Yeah , for sure , one of the biggest things that I learned was , um , not having to diet for a full year , because before I thought I had to be on a deficit for a long period of time to lose the weight and gain muscle . So basically I was kind of starving myself , but not really . You know , it's just I didn't have to put myself through through that deficit and just knowing that you could be on a deficit for three to four months and that's enough , and then go on maintenance and then go on a bulk for the rest of the year and then start again next year . You know , um , that definitely helped . And another thing was , um , just eating . I love eating apples , so just eating different kinds of apples and getting the different kinds of benefits , that's one thing that I learned from from Physique University . And , and then just measurements .

Cynthia 13:34

It's another one , like before , I never , when I would measure my biceps , like I would never , I would always measure it with my arm down , and then you , you know , talk about , you know , just make sure you flex , and I'm like , well , then I'm , I have a bigger bicep , of course , if I do that . But a lot of the things that you were teaching in the courses is a lot of things that I had learned , and so when I had found out about you through the macro factor app , a lot of people were , you know , vouching for you , saying that you're a good coach , and I'm like , okay , well , I have to check this guy out and see what he has to teach , and so it was pretty legit to me .

Philip Pape 14:16

I'm like , I'm sold , this is good information yeah , and I appreciate you putting a sales pitch on for me , even though I sometimes get uncomfortable and folks listening are like , oh no , this is Philip , turning this into a sales pitch . But what I think is important is just understanding whether you work with me or not work with me or you seek out information that there are things to learn . There are always things to learn . We should always be seeking out the information , and that if you're struggling in any way , um , there's probably an easier , a more efficient way , and that that's kind of where the curiosity piece comes in . So you mentioned number one , periodization . Right , you didn't say the word , but that's effectively . What you're talking about is where and this is one of the first things I learned as a coach and we talk about is , um , aligning your dieting and your and some people don't even like the word dieting but your mild fat loss , calorie deficits and your muscle building phases and maintenance with the year , with the seasons , with how you feel and your stress and your lifestyle , like just whatever makes sense , and knowing that you can ebb and flow between them and that if you diet too hard , too long , it has a negative impact on your long-term results . Right , it keeps you stagnant .

Philip Pape 15:25

You mentioned the apples . It's funny because I actually stole that idea from one of my guests oh my gosh , and I can't even remember now . This is terrible , but he was talking about gut health and the diversity of compounds and lectins in apples . And if we have different types of skins , you get different food for your bacteria , different strains of your bacteria , and then you have a more diverse gut microbiome and we know the gut is like the second brain and connected to everything . And then the measurements . It's so funny you say that because the little things like oh , you should flex your bicep are just the kind .

Philip Pape 15:51

Cynthia , I get questions by email every day with these little things like , uh , macro factors telling me 0.7 grams per pound of my protein . But I read it's supposed to be one and I'm like , okay , here we go again . Like it's one of those things people have heard stuff through the grape vine and let's just help them out anyway . Um , okay , so let's talk about some of the some of the other mindset shifts that I think are important for people to get into that you mentioned to me before . One thing was , um , cutting versus maintenance and bulking , which we just touched on a little bit . But since you're going to enter , or you have entered , muscle building phase , did you have any like fear about gaining weight ? Was there uncertainty , anything like that ? Since you were so good at dieting , was it kind of scary to you or were you pretty confident going into it ?

Cynthia 16:35

Well , with the muscle building , that was easy , but with the increase in calories that was scary .

Philip Pape 16:42

Okay , okay . So that you mean okay . So you mean the lifting weights to build muscle is easy . Everybody loves that . It's the eating .

Cynthia 16:48

More weight was hard , yeah it's like I don't know , especially coming from 250 pounds , you know , rounding um , I'm like I don't know if I want to go back there . There . It's that kind of thing like what , if I gain a lot of fat and because I was , this is honestly my first real bulk Um , I've never tried it before . It was just normally um deficits and maintenance . Um , I was , I was afraid of increasing the calories and gaining weight .

Philip Pape 17:19

Um , but yeah , Well , okay , so I think you started out . You don't mind me sharing some numbers . Right , you started at , I think , one 38 in February , which is two months ago , your goals , one 50 by July , which for a lot of women hearing that level of weight , that is scary to some . I imagine it's 12 pounds . It's totally normal in my mind , cause I've worked with people that are bulked and like men will typically gain 15 to 25 pounds and women will gain like 10 to 15 , unless they're very afraid to put on

Managing Perimenopause with Training and Nutrition

Philip Pape 17:47

weight , and then it's like , okay , we'll dial it back , go really lean and do like five or 10 pounds , just to kind of put your feet in the water . Um , how has the process been going physically and emotionally so far ?

Cynthia 17:58

It's actually been good . To be honest , when I first started , cause when you first gave me the recommendations and everything , I'm like I don't know if I want to do this 150? , are you sure ? But then when I started it , I haven't really . I don't feel swollen , I don't feel pudgy and I have been seeing results , especially in my arms , my shoulders . I feel like I've been gaining more muscle and , um , I'm actually liking what I'm seeing . Um , that's great , did you ?

Philip Pape 18:32

have you been tracking your measurements like Navy body fat percentage or using the physique tracker ?

Cynthia 18:37

Yeah , yes , I have .

Philip Pape 18:38

What has it shown ?

Cynthia 18:40

Um , it from February . Well , I'll start it since January , because I started like I'm like I'm going to start January . Since January until now so far , I've gained about I don't know if it's fast enough , but about four pounds of muscle and not too much fat . That's incredible .

Philip Pape 18:59

Yeah , that's incredible , that's great .

Cynthia 19:00

Oh , I'm actually liking the results .

Philip Pape 19:04

Yeah , I think actually actually . No , now that I have I do have your I should have looked at my notes . I think you said like five pounds of lean mass and three pounds of body fat , something like that , something like that yeah you do the math .

Philip Pape 19:13

Five out of eight is right , exactly where we would expect someone to be . Like two-thirds , you know , 50 to 75 percent , that is good . If you're gaining less than 50 muscle and more fat , um , that's a little bit less effective . But look , any muscles , muscle . You can cut off the fat .

Cynthia 19:30

So yeah , yeah , that's awesome . With some of the fat . It's like I still put on my jeans when I was smaller , a little smaller before the bulk . I'm like they feel loose still . So I'm I'm . It looks good on my clothes , my clothes look good on me , so I'm not disappointed .

Philip Pape 19:47

Good and you can definitely lean into that . We talk about like the non-scale victories and stuff . I know some women , and men too , are concerned about um , gaining the fat gaining part and how that's going to affect them and like having to deal with that for a time , and I think you mentioned , when we were preparing for this , how it messes with your head , like as a woman . You were saying specifically , can you just talk more about that , like how you worked through it if you had to , or advice for others .

Cynthia 20:13

Um well , it does mess with your head . I don't know how to explain it . It's just for me , because of my past history , my only concern was going back to being obese and in a way , I've trained my mind to just like . I would envision myself digging my heels on the ground and being like I'm going to keep pushing through it and I'm not going anywhere , like I'm not going back to old Cynthia . This is new Cynthia and this is going to be a forever thing . And so it's just determining , making that determination and even with the weight loss when I first started it about four years ago , is this there comes a period where you have enough . You're like I'm done , I quit , like I don't want to look like this , I don't want to feel like this . And I even did a like a vision board and I put images of myself when I was heavy , but I also put images of people that I wanted to look like muscular , and I would just look at that vision board and just encourage myself through that and I'm like that will be my reality . And I would often tell myself that is going to be my reality and just just trucking through and trying to make it happen .

Cynthia 21:33

And I mean because people can always make excuses and I was tired of the excuses . I'm like I can say this you know , I have five kids , I have to homeschool , I have to clean house , I have to go shopping and you know I have to be a wife . But when it comes to your health and you're getting older , it's like it's better to be healthy . I also had like issues with hives . Sometimes I would get hives in my body and certain um blotches on my skin . I'm like I don't , I don't like this . I don't like having feeling the love handles . I don't like you know , and just calling things out for what they really are , you know and being like I don't want this , this has to go now .

Cynthia 22:16

what am to do ? And at first it was tedious . I remember when I first started doing a back lunge I'm like , oh boy , I'm bad , I can't even do a back lunge . This is embarrassing , but I'm like it's better than nothing . It's better than nothing . And I kept encouraging myself like , start small , but start somewhere . And probably it took about four or five months to see real results not as quickly , but it took . It took some time . It's just being patient and doing the right thing and just not quitting .

Philip Pape 22:49

You , you , you just said , like every key point that I wish people understood about this , like patience to change . You have to change , you have to accept some discomfort . It's going to take time , like the first week , month , three months might not show you all the results you want , but it's going to chip away at it . And then you just said , like look , I wasn't taking it anymore Like I have . I have this identity inside me and now I want to physically manifest that identity , like that's what I'm getting from you . And you're right , no excuses . You've got a busy life , you've got a family to take care of .

Philip Pape 23:22

We were talking about that before . We recorded just how much is going on . And , like you know , you're looking forward to summer . You're , you're honest with yourself , right , you're looking forward to kind of a little more relaxing season of the year before you go after it again . Um , so potentially that's really good for muscle building too , is the low stress , so that's really good . Let's dig into your current goal a little bit , because I'd love to tease out any refinements or optimization or anything , just to make sure you're on the best track you can be . You're trying to build muscle with minimal body fat during perimenopause Impossible , right ?

Cynthia 23:53

You're doing it .

Philip Pape 23:55

Are there any specific challenges you're facing right now that you want to talk about ?

Cynthia 23:59

Well , I guess I'm still learning about perimenopause , and so I want to know if there are certain foods or supplements , I guess , to prevent waking Like well , besides muscle ,

Effective Training Splits for Muscle Building

Cynthia 24:23

I guess , what are common hormonal shifts that I can expect during this time , and what can I do about it ? To you know , prevent it , to get ahead of it in a way ?

Philip Pape 24:29

Yeah , yeah . So it's really good timing too , because one of my private clients sent me a message today . She went to the doctor and got hormone , some hormone replacement therapy going on right Progesterone , estrogen , testosterone , dhea those are the big ones . Sometimes people need thyroid meds . My general philosophy on this again , I'm not a woman , but worked with a lot and talked to a lot of professionals on this is obviously your number one supplement is strength training , like that's my answer , that's your number one . Big time , big time . Because again , this client called me and she's like the doctor was surprised at how far better my numbers were than she would expect for someone of her age .

Philip Pape 25:10

Okay , everybody cringes when they hear that , right , cause it's like come on , um , and the doctor's like , keep doing what you're doing . And she's like , how's your food ? She's like , well , I eat a lot of carbs and I eat pretty balanced . And she's like , well , your blood sugar is perfect too . So keep doing what you're doing . And she's .

Philip Pape 25:24

And yet she still needs a little bit of hormone therapy for , um , testosterone and progesterone and estrogen . Progesterone and estrogen decline , right , um , testosterone declines as well . The funny thing about testosterone , cynthia , is , like you know , women have like one . What is it ? 110th or 120th the amount of men , but it's still the largest amount of hormone in your body , you know , compared to all the like . A lot of women don't realize that , and so guess what stimulates it the most ? Strength training , like strength training , stimulates testosterone and IGF-1 . And then you can't do anything about the decline of your hormones in perimenopause , into menopause it's being a woman . What I do understand , though , is that the lifestyle things that you're doing and anyone listening can incorporate with lifting and just eating to nourish your body and not dieting all the time . That mitigates a significant portion of , let's say , symptoms from the hormones .

Philip Pape 26:22

Having said that , I'm a big fan of hormone replacement therapy if you need it . So working with not necessarily a GP , usually it's like a hormone specialist , sometimes functional doctors even though I have a little skepticism of functional medicine in general , I think the hormone area of it they probably are a little bit ahead of some of the conventional medicine . It depends where you get your panels checked . It's not just blood work . You get urine metabolites , maybe saliva , like all the stuff . You know the free , the floating versions of the hormones , and not just the bound versions of the hormones , all of that right , um , sex , binding sex . You know what I'm trying to say .

Philip Pape 27:00

Shgb , I can't think of it right now . Globulin , right , get all that checked and just be sure that you're doing the lifestyle and then whatever's left gets treated . So that's kind of like my big answer to all that . As far as foods and everything , I think that's kind of I don't think there's really an answer . I don't think there are hormone supporting foods . I don't think there are hormone-supporting foods . I think eating enough fiber , protein and balance is the answer .

Cynthia 27:25

Does that answer the question ? Yeah , so basically yeah , because that's the same thing that I've been hearing from you and from some podcasts that I heard from you Just keeping it the same and just don't believe the lie of there's no hope for you .

Philip Pape 27:41

Yeah , and I would encourage , like , if you're interested , uh , cynthia , definitely check out . Be careful , cause there are a lot of hormone podcasts and not all of them are like legit or fully evidence-based . Um , karen Martell she's been on the show a couple of times . Um , and I've been on hers . Hers , all her hormone stuff is really sound Like she brings on a ton of experts , talks about it all the time . I , you know her nutrition and training stuff is not always aligned , but that's fine , you know she , she has her approach , but her hormone stuff is great . So if you can find a few people and there's other folks I've had on who really know their stuff , like a lot more than I do with about hormone therapy Definitely listen to a bunch of people and like make critical , you know , use critical thinking and apply it for yourself and do the research .

Cynthia 28:24

But yeah , yeah for sure , cause I'm I'm one of those with a more natural approach . The more natural the better , and especially my husband being in the medical field . There's just a lot of side effects to to medicine and I'm like I I , if I could do it more naturally , then that's the way to go . But if , if not possible , we'll see , we'll see , you know , I think you could do it vastly naturally .

Philip Pape 28:53

Um , if you have the way you're doing , it is setting yourself yourself up for the best outcome period . Um , if anything , you're in a good position to maybe get some of the at least get your panels checked , like , if you haven't yet get it checked , just so you know . Like I get my testosterone checked , I just want to know , I'm like , if it drops at some point despite doing everything , and there's a medical solution , at least I know that option's available , right , if I want to do it . What's the other thing about supplements is I think you know my philosophy on this , but just for folks listening , be very careful with all the supplement recommendations out there . I think there's a core small set of supplements that most people should consider . We've got multivitamins to potentially fill in some gaps in your nutrition , but if you eat a lot of whole foods , you should be covered there . Magnesium is really good . Um , most people are deficient in magnesium . I know you take it right .

Cynthia 29:43

I take it every day . I love it yeah .

Philip Pape 29:45

It's great . And then , um , you know creatine , absolutely , I think everybody from like two years old to 98 , you know like everybody should take creatine , especially now that we're discovering cognitive benefits and like zero downsides , unless you're a tiny fraction of people who get allergic to it . Okay , sorry , or you just don't respond to it . And even if you don't respond to it , you might want to take it for the cognitive benefits , right , oh ?

Philip Pape 30:08

cool yeah Um fish oil if you don't need enough fatty fish . You know for the Omega threes , we know there's health protective benefits for for oxidative stress and things like that for your um inflammatory process . And again , inflammation is another trigger words , india . Because , like , if you're training and eating properly and being active like you're , you're giving yourself a pro inflammatory , counter inflammatory environment , right , like a low inflammation environment . Uh , what else did I forget anything ? Is there anything else you take ?

Cynthia 30:38

Um , well , definitely the vitamin D , but I get that from the sun , so I always one of the things that also helped me , besides the steps , getting a lot of steps done Um , after every meal , I walk for 15 minutes , like right after , just to just to get myself active , and um , most days I like being outdoors at least for 30 minutes . Um , just to get that vitamin D from the sun and fresh air . I feel like there's healing properties and just getting sun and fresh air and it's just relaxing .

Philip Pape 31:11

I agree I have a sheen of sweat right now because Connecticut has been like 45 degrees one day , 70 degrees the next , 40 degrees . So I'm like I'm like hot and cold , but I just went out for a walk , the next 40 degrees . So I'm like I'm like hot and cold , but I just went out for a walk and I got in here and I'm like it's gonna be nice and cool in the house . No , the sun's kind of anyway . Um , vitamin , but vitamin D is a good one . Some people do need to still supplement if they don't have enough of their super pale , like us . Um , okay , so so that's supplements . What about ? Is there any aspect of ? Is there any aspect you feel needs more refinement ? Or you're like experimenting with and not quite sure yet with , like the muscle building or the training or anything like that ?

Cynthia 31:46

I guess , because right now I'm training mostly three days a week and I don't know if I should increase it to four or five . I guess one of the things that I've been learning , especially from your podcast with Adam , it was patience , having patience Because I didn't realize , because I remember in the past people would say that if women lift weights they're going to bulk and be like She-Hulk , and obviously it's not true . Building muscle for women . I don't know how it is for men , but for myself I'm like this ain't so easy and I would like to get bigger shoulders . I just I like the bigger shoulders . Personally , I wouldn't be ashamed of that .

Philip Pape 32:33

Okay , awesome , awesome . So I hear a couple questions I want to answer . I'm going to go backward and start with the shoulders because , um , a friend of mine just sent me a link to a real I think it was actually Dr Mike Israel . He's got some really funny stuff out there , but he was doing um , wasn't him doing it ? I think ? No , no , no , it wasn't him . It was actually Alex Hormozy , who's like a marketing expert , he's also jacked and he like got his start in the gym industry and he was showing lat raises . Do you do lat raises ? Yeah , okay , so you probably do them the traditional way , where it's like pour the cup and bring it above your shoulders .

Cynthia 33:08

Okay , yeah , yeah . Is that how you normally do it ? Yeah , yeah , yeah , for the most part , yeah .

Philip Pape 33:13

Yeah , and the theory being that's like full range of motion . But think about the biomechanics . The lengthened portion is actually at the bottom , not at the top . The top is actually you're contracting , you know . It's the shortened version . The length is actually kind of in the middle to the bottom and you notice we usually just kind of fly through that position and we go up to the top .

Philip Pape 33:33

Well , he said look what if you overload , you know , go really heavy right when you can barely get them past like 45 degrees and just go to failure and see if it doesn't completely build your outside lateral caps here on your shoulders . And I'm like I I had the rotator cuff surgery , so like I can't even do lat raises without a little bit of pain . So I kind of do other stuff instead , like front raises and pressing and other . But I'm going to try those and you might want to try them the shoulders are a thing for you and just throw them in , like at the end and , due to failure , three or four sets of really really , really heavy but only like half range . Now people are listening to me , like the bros are listening like , oh , my God , you can't do that . You're supposed to come all the way up . That's not proper form . Depends on the purpose . If you're literally just trying to hit this small outside part and you can overload it in a partial and that partial is the lengthened see what happens , try it out .

Cynthia 34:23

Yeah , I did . I heard Jeff Knipred talk about that lengthened partials and that piqued my curiosity . I'm like , oh , so you don't have to do full range of motion .

Philip Pape 34:33

Then I'm like , okay , yeah , and the jury's out on like , should you do it only length and partials ? I think the consensus is is you know , do full range of motion and then some length and partials . The benefit of the length and partials is depending on the advantage of the biomechanics of the lift . You can overload it and hit it harder , right , and that that's the advantage . It's , it's you know , right . It's kind of like when you do a close grip bench press , people are like , well is well , is that for the shoulders or the chest ? It's like , yes , it's actually for both , and if you think about it , you're overloading the triceps quite a bit because you're helping it with the chest .

Philip Pape 35:07

So there's a part of the motion that's getting really , really hit with a high load and there's some magic in that , okay , so , going backward into the other two things you mentioned , you mentioned um . To the other two things you mentioned , you mentioned um three days a week . And then there was one other thing you mentioned I wanted to make sure not to forget . You said three days a week and you said um , patients or something bulking oh , the bulking piece . Yeah , yeah , I've talked that to death in this podcast . Look , I have trouble building muscle . Any woman listening , don't worry about it . I think she Hulk's pretty sexy anyway . But listen , between completely thin like rail thin supermodel and she Hulk , it's all beautiful . Build the muscle is my take on it .

Cynthia 35:47

Let's be healthy and strong .

Philip Pape 35:48

Yes , Be a healthy , strong human and you will be beautiful inside and out . All right , Um so three days a week . So here's my question to you is , um , what is your goal right now ? Not just building muscle , but I mean you said you wanted to specialize on your shoulders . Is there anything else you're focused on ?

Cynthia 36:05

Uh , I definitely the quads and the glutes

Tracking Progress and Finding Consistency

Cynthia 36:09

.

Philip Pape 36:11

Why am I not surprised ? Um , okay , so in that case , and your three day a week , is it full body or is it like push pull ? Yeah ? They're all full body they're all full body , okay , yeah , all right , and are you doing primarily the same movements all three days ? Are you rotating ?

Cynthia 36:26

no , rotating , it's a different um . I actually got a workout program from marcus philly okay , yeah sure yeah , and so he changes it fairly frequently and my husband is the one that got it . I'm like , well , you paid for it , I'll just I'll just use that , hey it never hurts to try things out .

Philip Pape 36:45

I'm all for that . Does it ? Does it at least um repeat some of the same exercises for at least a few weeks , so you can progress , yeah ?

Cynthia 36:52

Yeah , so he normally gives it like for six increments , but throughout the weeks , like there's conventional deadlifts and bench presses and you know different things , yeah .

Philip Pape 37:02

Okay , are you trying to push your numbers and build like a peak of strength and get super strong on on the lifts you know for function , for bone density , for ego , whatever . Or are you trying to just like build your physique Both ?

Cynthia 37:18

Both , because I actually I mean , I have been pushing myself and doing lifting heavier . There are days that I just I don't feel as strong , so I do lower the weight a little bit , but then there are other days you can't do that .

Philip Pape 37:33

You can't do that , I'm just kidding . No , no , that's good . Listen to your body , okay . So here's my thought is in general . I'm just I'm throwing out a bunch of generalities , cynthia , you're going to have to try it yourself .

Philip Pape 37:46

In general , once you get past that novice stage , which I think you are , um , a four or even five day split can be more effective , usually because you can get more frequency and more sets , like it's just more volume . Um , unless you're doing like two and a half hour sessions on the full body days I suspect they're not that long Then four days of like an hour of training maybe up to an hour and a half , depending on what you have time for can be potentially more effective , just because you're getting a little more volume . We know that 10 to 20 sets per week is like the sweet spot , pushing toward the upper range if you really want to be optimal . So like if you're only getting 10 or eight , then you're kind of right on that hairy edge of like you could push it more and get more results . I never want you to go to so far that you can't recover or it's not sustainable for you . But because you're eating and in a surplus , you've got the resources , you've got the calories . So a four day split instead of doing three day full body where you did upper , lower , upper , lower .

Philip Pape 38:41

And if you're trying to build glutes and quads , I don't think you need to do like three lower body days and one upper . You don't have to like bias it that much . Two and two is good . You can obviously do a five-day program and then have an extra leg day , but as long as you're hitting it hard in the two lower days with squats and with with squats and um , extensions and curls and you know variations on deadlifts and all that just the classic stuff you should be able to build your glutes and quads . Now I have a lot of great ideas for quad development that people don't think about , um , and one that I haven't even done myself but I'm sharing from my coach , andy Baker . He mentioned it once on the podcast . Is the Cambridge bar squat . You go to a gym or is that at home ? Home , okay , so you probably don't have that . Okay , then in that case , do you have a safety bar squat or just a traditional barbell ?

Cynthia 39:29

Um a safety bar . Yeah , Okay .

Philip Pape 39:32

So , with a safety bar , what you could do ? Do you have a way to raise your heels Like um wed ?

Philip Pape 39:39

I do have a wedge yeah you have a wedge , okay , so do that while wearing squat shoes , because that'll raise your heel even more . And put it a little bit narrow stance and just do safety bar squats . They're effectively going to be like a front squat , because you're going to have to be really upright to to stay balanced and that is going to slam your quads like nothing it's . It's almost like doing a sissy squat , but in a more controlled , loaded way , gotcha , so that's one . It's kind of like a plat squat , but on steroids . Um , so that's one thought .

Philip Pape 40:09

And then for , and then glutes . I mean you know what for glutes you could do cable pull throughs , you could do rate , hip bridges and glute raises and hip . You know all that stuff , right ? Um , I mean , basically squats are your number one friend for that as well , and deadlifts too , uh , to be honest . But you could do like , um , you know lateral stuff , you know split squats and step ups and lunges , whatever you like to , to kind of bring in the glutes and the hammies together as a system and then really load the glutes that way . Um , where am I going with all of this is the four days and then making sure you're specializing in the specific muscle groups you want , while just hitting the main lifts . The main lifts once or twice and then all the other stuff for bodybuilding should be good .

Philip Pape 40:49

Yeah , yeah , okay , as far as an actual program , I mean , that's , we're not gonna , I'm not going to give you that here , but we could talk .

Cynthia 40:56

Yeah , oh , awesome and normally um here . But we can talk yeah , oh , awesome and normally um . What is the normal rate for me to gain muscle , let's say monthly , or for women in general , like what's , what's what's considered normal to 20 pounds a month ?

Philip Pape 41:08

20 pounds a month Just kidding .

Philip Pape 41:12

You know how much you'd have to eat . Okay , so I generally say one to two pounds a month for women . That's like super general ballpark . I generally say one to two pounds a month for women . That's like super general ballpark . Um , you weigh one 40 , around one 40 , one 43 right now , and I just did the math for somebody else today for a lean gain at 0.2% and that was like a pound a month . So double that is 0.4% . That's two pounds a month . That's pretty good Cause then over a six month period you would gain like 12 pounds , which is what you're trying to do . Yeah , yeah , perfect .

Cynthia 41:40

That's what you're doing . Yes , yeah .

Philip Pape 41:42

Okay , we were just confirming .

Cynthia 41:43

All right , good yeah , is that funny how we get .

Philip Pape 41:46

I do this math all day . It's like plate math in the gym , you just know it's . You know one 35 , one 85 to 25 , right , yeah , okay . So we talked training , um , we talked body composition and and fear of gaining recovery . Pretty good , now anything , any symptoms from perimenopause or anything like that affecting you no , not really recovery has been really good .

Cynthia 42:10

um , no issues there . There are times that I am sore but not too bad , Like within a day or so it's pretty good From your lifting .

Philip Pape 42:20

Yeah from lifting In specific muscle groups or just in general . It could be anywhere .

Cynthia 42:24

Like mostly the triceps . The triceps get sore a lot easier .

Philip Pape 42:28

They cramp up a little bit , or what .

Cynthia 42:29

Yeah , they do . Where you're like trying to lift something and it's like ah yeah , that happens a lot to my , my , my calves , my calf muscles , oh yeah . And that's one thing my husband noticed this week . He's like , oh , you're building calf muscles , I see them now . I'm like , good , and you're doing like calf raises , yeah .

Philip Pape 42:48

Standing seated .

Cynthia 42:49

Standing . Is it with your ?

Philip Pape 42:51

safety bar , or how do you do those With safety bar ? Or how do you do those with , uh , just uh , with dumbbells . Okay , with dumbbells , because the calves , if it's working for you , great and and again you're you're not that heavy body weight . So , like a heavier person , like and I'm not that heavy , but like bigger guys , usually have to load up the calves a lot to get them to respond , which would , since you have a squat , safety , safety , squat bar , you could get in front of your power rack , get a calf block , you a block , a little low block of some kind , like uh no , yeah , actually I do , yeah , yes .

Philip Pape 43:21

Or even a box . Even a box , as long as you're safe about it and you basically just you put one arm on the rack and just get up on the blocks and cause , the safety bar has a yoke , you don't really have to hold it , you know , it kind of just sits there and then you could really load it up , like I could probably calf raise , you know three something or four something . You could probably get up to the two hundreds pretty quickly , cause they're , you know , the calves are pretty strong when you're just it's like this little , almost like an isometric , and then , um , really getting the squeeze and then coming down very deep , uh , with the height of your heel , so you have enough height , um , to bring the heel down . You know what I'm saying yeah , yeah .

Philip Pape 43:58

Yeah , you know is is super effective . Also , donkey , calf raises are great . That was Arnold made those famous and you could um rig up this whole thing with like spotter arms and stuff . That's a lot more complicated to do that . Anyway , where I was going with that is um calves can definitely cramp when you do the plat wedge , uh squat , it might like you might cramp up just getting in that position .

Cynthia 44:24

Yeah .

Philip Pape 44:25

Yeah , but you'll adapt , like you work through it and you work through the soreness and you adapt and then you won't cramp as much yeah .

Cynthia 44:31

Yeah , I remember when it would happen . I'm like I'm taking magnesium . Shouldn't magnesium be helping with that ?

Philip Pape 44:38

Electrolytes , hydration , I mean some of these . You just cramp because you just worked out of your muscles and you worked hard it's okay , it's okay , okay . And then what about food in terms of ? I know you're good on macros , you understand all that , but timing energy in your workouts ? I know you talk about on macros , like you understand all that , but like timing energy in your workouts ? Um , I know you talk about eating dates and protein . I love dates . Um , yeah , dates are good .

Cynthia 45:04

Dates are yummy . You ever had bacon wrap dates ? No , okay , okay .

Philip Pape 45:06

Next time you host a party , Okay , you just get strips of bacon and the big you know seeded dates . That's probably how you buy them , like the major dates that have no seeds in them , and you just wrap like I think a whole strip of bacon is what you want , or maybe a half , maybe a half strip of bacon , just wrap it , put a toothpick in and roast it . And you can Google like temperature and time , and it's so good because the bacon gets crispy , the dates get soft , warm and gooey .

Cynthia 45:32

It's just so good . That's one thing I was telling my husband . I'm like these dates . They taste like caramel to me .

Philip Pape 45:38

I love it , Good Cause it's like they're caramelized . It's like they're caramelized just naturally , Like that's how they taste right .

Cynthia 45:43

Yeah , and it does . Um , I know we've talked about this before pre-workouts and so I finally bought . Well , my husband bought the Legion , one Legion .

Philip Pape 45:53

Pulse . Did he use my link ? I'm just kidding .

Cynthia 45:59

No , sorry , I'm just kidding .

Philip Pape 46:01

I think my link gives me like points or something . It doesn't even give me money , so I'm like I hardly ever tell people that .

Cynthia 46:06

I completely forgot about it . To be honest , I'm just kidding , my husband bought it . Sorry , but I'm still iffy about it because I know that when you recommended bananas , I'm like I could eat bananas but I'm not much into it . And then someone had recommended dates . I'm like , oh , I love dates and I tried the pre-workout Legion Pulse recently and I I feel like I was crashing , still like I was .

Cynthia 46:38

I was yawning the one with uh caffeine no , the non-stimulant okay , yeah , it's stem free and I I wasn't impressed with it . So I'm like , this morning I took my normal , just the coffee protein . I do a coffee protein , um , with electrolytes as well , chocolate electrolyte , uh , and the creatine powder and touring . But when I eat the dates , um and the magnesium , I feel energized . I'm like I think for me , uh , the food pre-workout works better for me versus the powders .

Philip Pape 47:15

What are you doing ? Doing the powder without food or protein ? Yes , oh , okay , yeah , that's going to cause . Yeah , even with . Yeah , I don't see . Yeah , you definitely want to , because you were basically fasted then at that point . Okay , yeah , yeah , and I'm not saying that the pre-workout would work well for you , even when you did it with food .

Philip Pape 47:35

The way I do it personally is I have my banana and then I have whey protein and then I have the pre-workout and then , I go work out like 10 minutes later , um , the banana and the protein , like half an hour 45 minutes before , and then the pre-workout like 15 minutes before , um . But some people don't respond or some people have side effects because there's betaine , there's beta alanine , there's L-citrulline and there's one other thing , um plus the one that has caffeine . That's I like that one cause . That's I'm not drinking coffee that early , I drink coffee later . If you did it with the food first , I'd be interested to know if there's a difference .

Cynthia 48:09

Yeah , I'll try that tomorrow , cause I was planning on doing that tomorrow . I'm like I'm going to try it with my food , basically , and see how that works .

Philip Pape 48:18

I mean pre -workout , it's just a tiny boost potentially from the effects of the compounds that are in there . I mean they have been studied in the evidence to like help with with your oxygen , nitrogen oxygen and also , um , just giving you some a boost in performance . Use some a boost in performance , uh , when you're in the gym so that you get like an extra rep . You know it's not like it's like creatine , it's not like a huge game changer , um , so it's really take it or leave it . Cynthia , honestly , you know , as long as you're progressing , you're good , um , all right . So let's see you're . You're headed toward , like the one 50 pound mark , which I know sounded psychologically like Whoa , um , it's funny you say that Cause just today in physique university I posted a lean gain plan for someone who's weighs 144 , but it's her first lean gain , so she's afraid of gaining too much .

Philip Pape 49:05

So I said let's go up to 149 . I did that on purpose because of the psychology . I didn't want to say one 50 , you know what I mean . What , what are , um , what are like the most meaningful things that you're tracking now , just so the audience understands . Like how do you know you're making progress ?

Cynthia 49:33

And tracking my macros , calories , but the measurements really does encourage , because it helps me see how much lean mass I have and how much fat mass . And that's another thing that I had learned from you that there was a difference with the type , because when it said lean mass I always thought it was muscle .

Cynthia 49:54

Right , right , a lot of people think that I disregarded the bones , the organs , liquid . I'm like , yes , I gained five pounds of muscle and then the next week , wait what happened to my muscle . But yeah , just tracking , that was very informational , and just doing the same , I'm one of those that , I'm just a creature of habit , unfortunately .

Philip Pape 50:20

That gets you the result . That does it , like you said it earlier , taking the baby steps , and you also said , like , just doing something , like that was a good statement , because consistency is just doing something . Yeah , like , keep doing it , you're going to get there right .

Cynthia 50:34

Yes , so it's just being consistent with my meals and just showing up and even if you don't feel like it , and , of course , listen to your body , because there's times like I've talked to you about it One time I was not feeling good and I took a break . I'm like my body saying rest . So I'm going to rest and I'll make up the workout week somehow . I'll figure it out . But I'm going to rest and I'll make up the workout week somehow . I'll figure it out , but I'm going to do it .

Philip Pape 50:57

Just like the kids need the summer off and they come back mentally stronger sometimes , you need the rest . It's going back to the lean mass thing . I think that's an interesting one , right ? Because I don't want to leave that in the listener's mind , like , what are they talking about ? And also you , I want to make sure we clarify Um , yeah , it is everything except fat , right , so it's your muscle , your bone , your organs , your water .

Philip Pape 51:23

At the same time , when you look at the change in your lean mass , your , your organs aren't going to change . They might change a tiny bit , but they're not going to change . Your bone's not going to change in terms of , like , the mass . Um , so what's left ? Well , what's left is muscle and water and fluid , glycogen , all that . And then you can say , okay , well then , at least we ruled out the bones and the organs for the change . And so people then are like , well , how much of it is fluid ? Because you could get overly exuberant . Like you said , I gained five pounds , so therefore , it's all muscle , and it only might be three pounds of muscle and two pounds of fluid . And what we usually see happen right , as you're done with the bulk , you start to cut and all of a sudden you have fast weight loss at the beginning . Cause that's the fluid coming right back off .

Philip Pape 52:05

And when you just start doing the numbers and measure your body fat percentage trend and you use that times your weight , it gives you your you know fat versus lean mass . You'll find that your lean mass all of a sudden drops fast , right . And so when you gained five pounds , when you go back into your cut it might drop two pounds and what's left kind of gives you an indication of how much muscle you gained .

Cynthia 52:26

Gotcha Okay , that's kind of where I'm going with all that .

Philip Pape 52:30

All right , and it almost doesn't matter Like do you feel good , are you strong ? Do you look good ? Do you like yourself in the mirror ? Like , at the end of the day , that's what we're going for right , not all the numbers , even though they're fun . Um , okay , all right , so is there ? Is there any other thing that you need help with ? We'll start there . That's it . That's my question .

Cynthia 52:50

Um , well , I need a million dollars , and I'm kidding . Well , you do that by getting strong and fit and then going after your dreams . Yes , no , it's just the patience part of it and just building the muscle and just being consistent . One of the things that I do feel encouraged by you is the fact that I can still gain muscle and lose fat even during perimenopause , and that's one thing that I really enjoyed learning from you , because you do hear outside sources saying it's not possible , and to actually hear someone say no , it is possible For me , it's like a breath of fresh air , you know , or however you say , it .

Philip Pape 53:36

Yeah , no , that's perfect , beautifully said , and I hope people listening ,

The Power of Patience and Possibility

Philip Pape 53:39

women listening or men supporting women all take to heart what you just said . It's possible . We see it , you did it , you're doing it . Many , many other people are doing it and we get that excuse off your plate or that doubt off your plate . Then you could go after it . So you could go after it . So that's great advice to leave it with everyone listening .

Philip Pape 53:57

And if you're listening and you're inspired by Cynthia's story , I'm sure she could connect to you , maybe in our Facebook group . Maybe it would be a good place to check Cynthia out , because I don't want to share all her personal information . But if you guys want to basically follow the same approach , we've got all that in Physique University . This is the only pitch I'm going to give you today . That is where we have the courses that Cynthia mentioned and the step-by-step system , the tracking , the strategies , and she mentioned a few times like she reached out , and that's what you do in there .

Philip Pape 54:26

You just post or you say , hey , philip , I got an issue , what do I do ?

Philip Pape 54:29

And I'm going to chime in within like , same day , probably I'm going to come in and say here , same day , probably I'm going to come in and say here's the plan , I'll send you a video , I'll do something and then everybody else in the community learns from that . So if , like , if , you jump in and you're brand new and you want to know about training , you could search training and you could see all the discussion about training . Um , and so you want to go to what's on weightscom slash physique to learn more about that or click the link in the show notes . But , cynthia , thank you so much for doing this , for joining my sales pitch today , for doing this coaching session together . We actually did this because you won our first challenge . I forgot to mention that it was a walking step challenge and Cynthia was , like , super committed to increasing her step count and being engaged and the community voted her the winner and we said let's do a coaching session for everyone to kind of celebrate this . So thank you very much for doing this .

Cynthia 55:17

Yeah , thank you . Thank you for having me and thank you for everyone who voted for me as well . It was awesome .

Philip Pape 55:23

And they're all going to hear this . I know they are . So all right listener . Thanks for tuning in to Wits and Weights and hearing Cynthia's story . I hope everybody was inspired and takes heart in the ability to do whatever you want to do for your muscle , for your body , even in perimenopause , no matter if you're a man or woman of any age . Go after it .