The Perimenopausal Weight Gain Challenge

Philip Pape 0:01

If you're a woman over 40 who's been doing all the right things but can't seem to lose stubborn fat around your midsection , you're not alone and you're not crazy . The strategies at work in your 30s suddenly seem useless and no matter how much you cut calories or increase cardio , the scale refuses to budge . What's worse , your doctor might have told you this is just what happens after 40 , without offering any real solutions . Today , I invited on a women's health expert to reveal why perimenopause creates the perfect hormonal storm for fat gain , why eat less , move more actually backfires during this life stage , and the specific nutrition and lifestyle adjustments that can help you reclaim your metabolism without sacrificing your sanity . Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency . I'm your host , philip Pape , and today I'm bringing you a collaboration with Brooke Davis , founder of Elysian Women's Wellness and host of the Fitness Simplified podcast . Make sure to follow her podcast , because we're dropping two episodes simultaneously for different parts of the conversation .

Philip Pape 1:15

Today on this podcast , we're talking about a very hot topic fat loss during perimenopause . What is really going on with your hormones , your metabolism , body composition during this transition ? How to shift what you do your nutrition , your lifestyle , without quick fixes , without detoxes , cutting carbs , any of the other nonsense you might hear all over the internet today . Brooke has spent over a decade helping hundreds of women navigate midlife fitness . She's a certified nutrition coach , personal trainer , women's health specialist . She's done it all . She's developed protocols that address the specific hormonal shifts of peri and post-menopause to help women transform their bodies when other methods have stopped working . So today you are going to learn why the usual fat loss advice won't cut it for women over 40 . The true non-negotiables during this phase and the best nutrition and lifestyle behaviors to support your hormones .

Philip Pape 2:09

Last thing , before we get into it , if you want to hear the other side of this conversation , make sure to follow the Fitness Simplified podcast . Brooke is interviewing me on the muscle and metabolism side of this during fat loss for perimenopause . It's all . There's a lot of overlap anyway , isn't there ? And that dropped the same day as this episode . So Fitness Simplified Podcast or click the link in the show notes . Brooke , enough of me talking , welcome to the show .

Brooke Davis 2:31

Hello , hello , thank you for having me . I'm super excited to chat today .

Philip Pape 2:42

So let's get right into the topic , which is why the heck is it so hard for women as they get older , whether it's because of hormones or something else ? You tell us to lose fat , or perhaps you gain body fat . What is going on ?

Brooke Davis 2:51

There are so , so , so many factors , you know , and , as you mentioned , uh , hormones . That is one of the biggest things that is changing right . Uh , literally women's internal chemistry , that is changing right , literally women's internal chemistry , their physiology , is shifting majorly . Hormones that you know have kept us steady throughout our entire life are at a major decline , along with fluctuations throughout this time , and you know , a lot of women are like oh I just , you know , need to have more willpower , my metabolism is failing , things like that . But you know , the reality is that a lot of times , it's nothing that they're doing wrong per se . It's just that the things that they need to do now , versus when they were 20 , do have to be different , because they themselves are different . They're like I said , their whole physiology is actually shifting in a pretty big way , and so those strategies that used to work don't really work anymore . Yeah , long story short .

Philip Pape 3:57

Yeah , yeah , no , no , great , Please . It's good to get into these and I'm always champing at the bit with follow-up questions , because you said some really neat things there . One thing you mentioned and I want to pull the thread is things have changed . Your physiology has changed . The thing you did in your 20s isn't working . But let me ask you this honestly how many people are doing even the right things in their 20s ? Because I want to set the stage and how are they getting away with not doing the right things ? Let's be honest .

Brooke Davis 4:18

Yeah , so , like you mentioned , most people in their 20s when you put it like that , they're not doing the optimal things . Right , they might do things that produce results in terms of fat loss , but they're not necessarily doing the things that are going to bring them optimal health . And you know this is why , like you said , there's a lot of overlap , because the reality of it is that the things that bring you optimal health in your 20s will bring you fat loss and optimal health in your 40s , but most people in their 20s don't care about optimal health , they don't care about the rate at which they get the fat loss results that they're looking for , and so what tends to happen is they're taking really extreme , really ultimately stressful measures you know , stressful on their bodies to reach the goals that they want . You know they're exercising way too much . You know they're usually it's high intensity , which there's nothing wrong with that . That's great when that's all you're doing , and a lot of it .

Brooke Davis 5:11

They're under nourishing or under eating in general , and you know they're really not , like I said , focused on nutrients , not focused on nourishing their body . Everything they do is really extreme . So that is , I mean , the biggest kind of shift that needs to occur is that your body doesn't now , in your 40s , even honestly 30s , like I'm 34 , I'm going to be 35 next year , so you know your body doesn't have the resilience for it anymore . And one of the things I'm a functional diagnostic nutritionist and one of our like kind of coin terms is vital reserve . And when you're 20 , right , you have that vital reserve . Well , some people do , some people don't , right . But when you're 40 , and you've been doing those things for , you know , 20 years , maybe stressing your body out , undernourishing , right , burning the candle at both ends , not getting enough sleep your body doesn't have the vital reserve to continue to function well , or well enough that you don't notice it in your 40s .

Philip Pape 6:13

Yeah , there are some nuances there that I think are lost on some people . Because I wanted to ask it that way , because I can think of my 20s like I got away with a lot of things . Now I wasn't into fitness , I was definitely doing lots of weird diets , going back to Slim Fast and Atkins and all that stuff . That's how old I am . I'm in my 40s , so about 10 year difference . But it's like the thought that in your 20s the things you can do , your body just can mitigate them significantly , Like you suggested .

Philip Pape 6:41

That's more resilient , the vital reserve . It's like you can get away with it and you learn these bad habits , Like you just end up learning or thinking that this works and that's the best way to do it . Uh , overexercising , like you said , under nourishing , which is a great substitute word for under eating , because then it implies it's not just about food in general or energy in general , it's nutrients , it's vitality , it's support of your body . And then what about ? Let's get into the physiological changes ? It sounds like there's a double whammy going on of accumulation you mentioned accumulated stress , for example of just bad habits ,

Hormonal Shifts During Perimenopause

Philip Pape 7:16

so that starts in your twenties and then the physiology changes on top of that . So maybe we focus on that piece of it .

Brooke Davis 7:23

Yeah , so I mean hormonally speaking . Right , we'll start in physiologically and perimenopause , the first thing to go is estrogen and progesterone , which are , you know , our two main sex reproductive hormones , and so with that , progesterone is usually at a pretty steady decline , and that is what tends to kind of cause issues initially . And then what happens is the estrogen is doing this like along the way , so it's drastically increasing and tanking , increasing tanking , which is putting you into , you know , estrogen dominance , not zero estrogen dominance , and that is what causes a ton of the symptoms that women probably have the most complaints about , which is like weight loss resistance , the accumulation of fat around the belly , the hot flashes , night sweats , things like that are . Those are , those are the most common complaints , and that is caused by those massive fluctuations in estrogen . So it's not just about that these hormones are declining , it's that they're erratic and that in and of itself is really stressful on the body , as one can imagine .

Brooke Davis 8:33

And then , on top of that , those fluctuations , quite literally , you have estrogen receptors throughout your entire body , from your brain , your joints , your muscles , and so every system in the body is then impacted by that . And then going into cortisol , your cortisol is , you know , you're against sensitivity to these things . Uh is really elevated , and so cortisol then is impacted . Uh , so your adrenal glands and your adrenal glands what a lot of people don't know are like your secondary sex hormone producers , so they're basically all you have left after your ovaries are done , which I think if people knew that , they would pay more attention to stress management , like going into this , because that is a major , major factor . And so those are , I mean , some of the main like impacted uh hormone systems and that go on during perimenopause .

Philip Pape 9:27

Yeah , that's . That's really well described , because sometimes it gets oversimplified with like well , progesterone , estrogen , testosterone they all drop . Like okay , is it ? It's more than that . What you talked about the estrogen erraticness , the scarcity versus the dominance and it's relative to the other hormones too is what you implied , plus the fact that your body's sensitive to estrogen . You know it's funny because I believe men are as well . But right , we don't have that variance . So we can't get what's going on with the ladies in this time of their life .

Philip Pape 9:57

And then , of course , the downstream of cortisol , which cortisol is a boogeyman for lots of things . But what you're suggesting it's like downstream , it's an indicator of what is going on your HP axis , your adrenal glands , so it's all tied together and I like that you brought up symptoms as well , because I think that's a good source of biofeedback . And listening to your body of like okay , you've got the hot flashes , you're building excess belly fat , you're not able to lose weight , something's telling you and hope is not all lost , right , like it's not the end of the road . So , before we get into the like , what to do and more details , what about testosterone and DHEA ? Where are they coming to the picture ?

Brooke Davis 10:32

Yeah , um , so testosterone is also declining , unfortunately . That's a . That's a big one . Dhea , right , that's kind of like uh , your again your backup , right , it's made in the adrenals and so that , um , the supporting your adrenal health and making sure that stress management is a really big part of really like as much of life as you can make it , from as early as you can make , it is really powerful , like I just funny backstory . So my grandma , she's 91 this year and she's been taking this supplement for like a really long time . It's called unforgettable , so it's like a brain health supplement . But I looked at it , I was looking at the ingredients and there's phosphatidylserine in it and that is a like cortisol , regular decreases cortisol in the body and I'm like and she was talking about how like menopause like really wasn't a thing for like it wasn't an issue . She's always just been like cruising a lot and she like she still has horses , she lives almost on her own , like she's very independent , and I was like I wonder if that's like your secret weapon , right ?

Brooke Davis 11:33

here , this you know cortisol management , grandma , like that's . You know how powerful that is and not that obviously that's .

Philip Pape 11:39

It's not a causation , or you know to end the podcast right there and say call it action , go get your . Here's your affiliate link , by the way . Yeah .

Brooke Davis 11:48

No , I don't , I don't sell that product but um , but no , it was just really cool Cause I'm like interesting Um so so so wait , is it ?

Philip Pape 11:56

is it acting ? Is it acting like a nootropic or adaptogen kind of like Ashwagandha ?

Brooke Davis 12:06

Um , um , no , foster , no , it's just , uh , it just helps manage , uh , cortisol and , like I said , it just makes it less impactful on the body , right , and so it actually lowers your cortisol in general . But , um , so it's not actually indicated for everybody , like if you already have , you know , whatever adrenal quote-unquote , adrenal fatigue is that like , it may not be for everybody , so don't don't go run out and get your phosphat . Um , but it was just like , it just was funny that you know that's like a big thing and my grandma and my day and you've one-year-old grandma is like crushing it over here .

Brooke Davis 12:31

So um but yeah so . So , dj , like I said , in the adrenals , the adrenal glands are really , really powerful and they are your backup engine basically to hormone production and , um you know , less symptoms through perimenopause . Uh , there have been studies to where , um , you know , women whose nervous system was more regulated , right , they were more in that parasympathetic state . They experienced less to no hot flashes . Um , throughout , you know , despite estrogen levels equaling and being the same as other women right At the time of testing , cause it's all erratic . But despite similar estrogen levels equaling and being the same as other women right At the time of testing , cause , it's all erratic . But despite similar estrogen levels at the time of testing , women who , uh , you know , said that they were in you know more of a person , but they said they had a better HRB , that kind of thing . They actually had less , uh , like Bixomotor motor symptoms than the other groups . So it's really , really powerful .

Philip Pape 13:28

Yeah , it always . All roads seem to lead to stress , no matter who I talk to , having been in this business myself , and there's a lot of angles to it . Right , there's a lot of ways to attack the ultimate getting into that nervous system state you want to be in . Do you watch TV , like , have you seen the new White Lotus ? Do you watch that show at all ? Okay , so in the latest season , um , they go to this meditation center and there's like a monk , basically I don't know if it's Tibetan , but this is in Thailand , I think . And it made me think like if we were just out of civilization in general and back to , like hunter gatherers , just living the life , the stress would be so much lower . Right , like that's the root of all our problems .

Philip Pape 14:02

Anyway , I think that's

Managing Blood Sugar and Insulin Resistance

Philip Pape 14:03

not like let's just get rid of it , all , right , but you mentioned so cortisol , and then there's insulin , right . So there's a connection there . I don't know if you had mentioned it yet , but maybe we get into that . Then I want to ask about HRT , and then , finally , let's get into lifestyle . So insulin , yeah .

Brooke Davis 14:20

Yeah , so insulin regulation is a it's really disrupted . You become more insulin resistant during perimenopause simply because of the hormonal shifts estrogen , progesterone , cortisol that impacts your blood sugar . So you know throughout that that is definitely one like really simple shift that women can make . I don't know if we're gonna get into that yet , but that is . You know , insulin resistance leads to metabolic disease . That is part of , you know , the decline of metabolism in the system overall , and so that is absolutely a consideration during perimenopause that can be addressed really easily with nutrition and lifestyle .

Philip Pape 14:58

Yeah , so you're such a tease Like what is the super secret sauce to doing it ? And actually , before we do that , is it HRT .

Brooke Davis 15:05

No no . Um yeah , no , uh , I mean it . It can potentially help for sure , but yeah , as far as you know , nutrition , I don't , I don't want to take your , your glory , that's on , that's what your podcast , but muscle there's overlap , there's lots of overlap .

Philip Pape 15:20

It's all good Jump into it , you can't just separate them . You can't separate them .

Brooke Davis 15:23

First and foremost is muscle Um . The more muscle you have , um you know , the less impact all of that is going to have on the body . Um more you know glycogen gets shuttled into the muscles , the less um insulin sensitivity . Um . So , as far as um nutrition goes , managing blood sugar , making sure that you have balanced meals , first of all , um making sure that you know each meal starts with a fiber fat , um , and then ideally going to protein and then your carbohydrates , so , um that slows down the digestion and reduces the impact on blood sugar .

Philip Pape 15:57

Um , okay , hold on , let's . Let's break it down for people . Let's do blood sugar , cause there's there's a lot of misinformation about blood sugar . Yeah , a lot of CGM stuff out there as well , like the , the glucose monitors , for better or worse . There it's a tool , uh , and I just had actually Christina McClurkin was just on recently . You know her from our group as well , yeah .

Carol 16:15

Right and blood sugar is like one of her pillars .

Philip Pape 16:17

There we go . Yeah , so we all understand the value of fiber and stuff , but you just said um start with a fiber . I think you said fiber and then fat and then protein and then vegetable or carbs . Is that like the sequence of building your plate you're thinking , or the sequence of how you eat with your plate ? What are you referring to ?

Brooke Davis 16:34

How you eat . I mean , you could do it to build your plate as well . Uh , absolutely , but yeah , the order in which you actually eat your food .

Philip Pape 16:41

Good , okay , sequencing , yep , cool .

Brooke Davis 16:44

Yes .

Philip Pape 16:44

All right , all right , continue . I just wanted to touch on the blood sugar piece .

Brooke Davis 16:49

Blood sugar . Okay . So , yes , the order in which . And then , of course , making sure that overall , I mean , you're not eating a ton of processed sugar , processed carbohydrates . That is like , first and foremost , that I tend to skip that because I'm like that's a given right , but it's not . So you know , reducing sugar , reducing added sugars , even if you have , you know fruits are , generally speaking , okay If you have , you know , type two , whatever type one , diabetes or whatever already , then that is something you want to manage and make sure that , even you know , with your fruit , maybe everyone is different and this is the crazy thing , like there have been studies to where you know one person might react to a sweet potato , you know their , their blood sugar might go through the roof and another person might be totally fine , like that , they don't have that much of an impact .

Brooke Davis 17:32

So that is one reason where one one time , uh , or one reason why CGMs can actually be really powerful , continuous glucose monitors for those who are familiar with that . But because you know , and it's not only food that spikes your blood sugar , uh , stress , right , periods of stress , if cortisol is being pumped in your system , then you know that can impact your blood sugar . And so managing that first and foremost ? Uh , but that is where , like I said , if you have access to a CGM , I really think and especially through premenopause , it's just data not to confuse the fact that your blood sugar should stay in a straight line all day long . No , but there may be things impacting your blood sugar that you don't realize , that do have more of an effect on you than even other people . So that can absolutely be a powerful tool just for information and making you know small shifts that help support your body .

Philip Pape 18:29

But why is it ? Why is blood sugar important ?

Brooke Davis 18:32

I mean it's stress on the body is the reality of it , and the more you know your body has to work to produce insulin , to regulate it . It's just having to work overtime .

Philip Pape 18:43

Okay , that's a good one . I'm glad you said that , because a lot of people have a different angle they come to when they talk about blood sugar . For some people , it is the insulin where I think that's overplayed if you're lifting , if you're living the right lifestyle , and others say it's the energy crashes . But I think that's because of the inconsistency in your cortisol , which is your stress , and what you're implying is that , overall , you're saying that chronic stress can be pushed up if you have erratic blood sugar . Is that right ? Yeah , important , important to know , like , like all the different things that cause it . It's the same thing with , like , inconsistent sleep and wake times and inconsistent eating patterns , and so your body wants to be safe and secure and that's one way to do it . Okay .

Brooke Davis 19:19

Yeah , yeah , a hundred percent . Um , and , like you mentioned , like , yes , energy levels , um , cravings , for sure you know , for fast energy if your blood sugar is spiking and then tanking . So I mean , those are all . Again , it's a stressor on the body overall , but uh , impacts how you feel and how you perform . And then , uh , going on walks , as far as managing , you know , uh , blood sugar after meals , um , you know a 10 minute walk , um , there was also a really recent study that came out . It's , I mean , it's all over , but um , if you it was 10 , 10 squats every 45 minutes actually managed blood sugar better than a 30 minute walk after meals . Uh , but just that , like , um , you know consistent input of glucose into the muscles and you know , utilization of it throughout the day , um , like I said , it just helped manage blood sugar and I'm sure , as they went I don't know how long the study actually was , but I'm sure they built muscle and it improved everything .

Philip Pape 20:15

Hold on . So that's cool . I hadn't heard about that one . Did they at all compare it to one long training session in the day ?

Brooke Davis 20:23

No , it was compared to walks .

Philip Pape 20:24

Yeah , cause I was wondering if you know cause . Again , I always make the anecdotal argument . I think it's supported by evidence , but that , like a nice solid training session , hard training session in the morning is great for your stress for the whole day . It might have a similar effect of like the micro doses of movement , just wondering .

Brooke Davis 20:41

Yeah , um , no , there's actually . So the studies I mean this wasn't specifically on blood sugar , but I mean the the studies on exercise stacks . There are some studies , especially , uh , based on like strength , that I've read that , um , you , they actually were able to improve strength performance better by breaking up sessions because of the recovery piece of it , right , um , and then exercise snacks , you know as far as the benefits of it are equal to , you know , if not potentially better than one like long training session , um , so I think , I think it , and it makes sense to me that you know the consistent , again , utilization and and input of glucose into the muscles throughout the day would be more beneficial than even just a single like bout of exercise . But that would be an interesting study . Maybe someday I'll do that .

Philip Pape 21:29

It's food for thought . Look , I mean , at the end of the day , you got to make it work , so you do something right , like do one of those things . But if you're like I could do either . Which do I do . It's nice to know which one's a little

Nutrition Strategies and Food Sequencing

Philip Pape 21:40

more optimal for some folks .

Brooke Davis 21:41

Yeah , but I mean one thing we do like with kind of is like every time you go to the bathroom like do 10 extra squats like you , especially for , you know , those who sit at a desk , like you know , can you set a timer for the hour and just stand up and do 10 squat , right , it takes 10 , maybe 15 seconds , right , to do 10 squats . Like who doesn't have time to do that ?

Philip Pape 22:00

Oh yeah , people will say they don't have time for a lot of things right brook , that they do . So all right , so continuing on with like we're . So ultimately , we're trying to support hormones for women in perimenopause and again people are thinking okay , where blood sugar comes into this because of the stress we mentioned before , the logical chain here of stress Affecting hormones , affecting fat storage , the ability to lose fat . I want to make sure that the listener continues to have that like what are the cause and effect of all this and where do I ultimately have the biggest impact with my actions , rather than like getting frustrated and thinking I have to get treatment or supplements or something like that .

Brooke Davis 22:35

Yeah , uh , like I said . So biggest thing , like simple shifts with nutrition , that would be , you know , making sure , like I said , you're getting enough protein , you're getting enough high quality , nutrient dense food , enough fiber right , 25 to 35 grams per day of fiber , and then , in the order that you eat your meals , fiber , fat , protein , carbs and and then you know again if you strength training , of course , strength training two to three times a week , uh , making sure you have that muscle if you can do walks and your squats throughout the day . I mean those are some of the most impactful things you can do .

Philip Pape 23:12

as far as blood sugar is concerned , so maybe the other angle on this is what not to do , because I'll tell you and you , I'm sure , a hundred percent agree with what you hear online all the time fasting , low carb . What are the other ?

Brooke Davis 23:28

ones Like we could just knock them down right now . Let's go . Okay , okay , uh , so fasting , um , I actually also have a whole podcast on this .

Philip Pape 23:34

Um , but do you know what number it is , what episode , or is it recent ?

Brooke Davis 23:38

If we .

Philip Pape 23:38

If we connect , we could drop it in later .

Brooke Davis 23:40

Okay , okay , yeah , uh , it's , it was semi-recent , um , if they , you know , if they scroll through there , find it , I only have 40 episodes , so it's not like it'd be awesome .

Philip Pape 23:48

I'm sure they're . They're super high quality . 40 episodes so good . That's easy . People can binge the whole thing yeah .

Brooke Davis 23:53

Um , but so fasting ? Um , there are . There are a ton of benefits to fasting , actually . Uh , most people , especially women , are doing it wrong . The reality of it is that , you know , not eating under nourishing , um , that is a stressor , and most women are already not eating enough , and so you cut off , you know , you give yourself a six hour time window to shove 2000 calories in , like I mean I love to eat , but like that's going to be hard for even me , Um and so , and then most women , you know , aren't getting , like I said , enough as it is and so .

Brooke Davis 24:27

But you know , within that then we have cortisol and that is again a blood sugar regulator . So if you wake up in the morning , you , when your cortisol should be right , the highest , that's normal , we want it to be high , that's what wakes you up and it helps stabilize your blood sugar through the night because we're not eating overnight . So in the morning , right , it's . Waking up , it's high . If you continue to not eat right , instead of breaking that fast and allowing you know the food that you're eating to then stabilize your blood sugar , your cortisol will continue to remain elevated .

Brooke Davis 24:59

So that's problem number one and most women , they're not cutting off their eating window at night , because that is the most difficult for most people , but they , so they take it off the morning and so when they're doing fasting , they're not eating until you know 12 , one o'clock , on top of which they're usually , you know , having coffee , which also caffeine can be a major stressor can increase your cortisol , which and I and I have to like just clarify this because cortisol , there's nothing wrong inherently with cortisol .

Brooke Davis 25:28

We need it , right . It is a natural hormone that has plays a role in , you know , every function of our body , but especially in perimenopause , it can actually really impact fat loss efforts and you know the way that your body continues to produce hormones . So , because too much cortisol will actually take the energy from other sex hormones , and so you know that you'll see , not not influencers , but like a lot of people being like cortisol doesn't matter . Like you know , people are pushing it too much and it's like , okay , there's a , there's a line , like I don't want you to just stress over cortisol , but you have to know that there are physiological , like implications to these actions that you're taking , um , and they can impact your fat loss efforts .

Philip Pape 26:17

So many , many rant there , um no , no it , it makes sense , especially when you're like it's an indicator , it's biomarker , biofeedback , of what's going on . It's not that you want to go out and get a cortisol blocking supplement and just put a patch on this downstream thing . You want to lift and eat for your blood sugar and balance your food and don't fast at the wrong time , et cetera . Yeah , okay , totally , totally .

Brooke Davis 26:38

So so , yeah , that's your food , and don't fast at the wrong time , et cetera .

Brooke Davis 26:40

Yeah , okay , totally , totally so . So , yeah , that's , um , those are , I mean , two of the major like issues with fasting is they're they're not getting enough food , um , because it's really hard to eat in that window . And then that extended morning , you know , fast is does impact blood sugar , cortisol , et cetera , um , and then if they're not planning , you know what they're going to eat , if it's not quality , right , they're not only undernourishing , they're not getting a protein , which causes muscle loss , they are , you know , not getting enough fiber , which causes , you know , backup and detox and bowel movements , and then you know , so that's , those are the major issues with it . But , honestly , having a having an eating window and stopping eating , like six , you know , seven , maybe even at the latest , I think , honestly for everybody , not just perimenopausal women , but there's a reason that you know we have this overnight , uh , fast , and it

The Truth About Fasting and Carbs

Brooke Davis 27:33

gives your body a chance to actually regenerate , right , fasting it does actually have a lot of benefits , but it has to be done in the right way , for pregnant and postulant women specifically , I mean everybody .

Carol 27:46

Before I started working with Philip , I had been trying to lose weight and was really struggling with consistency , but from the very beginning , philip took the time to listen to me and understand my goals . He taught me the importance of fueling my body with the right foods to optimize my training in the gym , and I lost 20 pounds . More importantly , I gained self-confidence . What sets Philip apart is the personal connection . He supported and encouraged me every step of the way . So if you're looking for a coach who cares about your journey as much as you do , I highly recommend Philip Pape .

Philip Pape 28:26

No , that makes sense . That's a great approach , right ? Like we're not trying to black and white everything here and say there's you know , only one way . There's the way to do it . And , as everybody's fasting , when they sleep , right , they're fasting . So now it's a matter of like okay , at the end of the day , listen to your body . How's your food impacting your sleep and your biometrics ? If you shifted your time window , would you be more consistent with it ? Could you align it with your energy during the day , like all the things ? Right , yeah , so how does ? Where do carbs come into this as well , cause recently I've been digging in . Did I come out with the episode ? Yet ? I don't know . There might be one coming out about the connection between carbs and cortisol , which I think is pretty cool .

Brooke Davis 29:09

Yeah , yeah , I mean carbs help manage cortisol output is the reality of it , and that is one reason why low carb diets one reason are an issue . The other side of that , there are actually some studies that short-term , especially for perimenopausal women , short-term lower carb , higher fat diets , um do actually help , you know , stabilize blood sugar , decrease stress in the body , help with hormone production , especially from women who , like this is it's like a generational thing . So , like the generation before me , they were like low fat right , eating the low fat dairy low fat milk , that kind of thing .

Brooke Davis 29:40

And then my generation , I feel like , is low carb . We're like , all right , we're going to do keto or low carb . So it kind of depends on like , and some people are kind of in the middle of that . So I get , I get , you know , different one coming to me but but the , you know , getting enough quality fats most importantly , which is we're not on keto yet . But that is the biggest , uh , you know , issue , and because hormones are made with B vitamins and cholesterol and so without that fat , that those quality fats , um , you're going to struggle to make hormones and so , and then carbohydrates , I mean carbs , are body's main and preferred source of energy , is the reality of it . Um , they also have a ton of fiber . So , you know , we're not just looking at cortisol in terms of regulation , but , um , detoxification , you know , digestion , the fiber in foods feed our gut microbiome , which is a whole nother aspect of perimenopause that , uh , you know , comes into play , and so carbs are a necessary part of life and so carbs are a necessary part of life .

Philip Pape 30:42

Yeah , I agree . And you didn't even have to , like , make the case for all the other benefits for performance and energy and recovery . Now , just saying that , that alone I've seen it . I'm sure you've seen it . Women come to you having undernourished but also eating too few carbs , and just adding carbs can all of a sudden unlock a whole bunch of vitality . You know , it's like whoa , I have energy .

Brooke Davis 31:06

I have my hormones , you know , whatever . So , before we wrap up , yeah , go ahead and fat loss , yes , yes , I know we're over time , but , um , that is one of the biggest things . Like you know , people come to us , they're eating low carb , low calorie I mean , I've literally doubled some women's calories , and you know and they lose weight and they're like what is that ? It's like this is what happens when you nourish your body , right it ? Because then it comes back to the nervous system , I think largely . You know you're in that fight-or-flight state when you're starving , basically , and so your body's like no , we're hanging on to . You know , everything we got right now .

Brooke Davis 31:37

And you know , yes , like when it comes to starvation , right , if you are vastly under eating for a long period of time , yeah , you're just , I mean , you're gonna lose weight and waste away to nothing . But that's not usually what happens . People , you know , eat low carb , low calorie all week , and then they have one day that they eat a ton , to try , you know , because their bodies are trying to make up for it all , and so they're not actually like starving , but they would be if they ate how they do during the week , like all the time . So , yeah , it's a . It's an interesting phenomenon to witness . Yeah , I think .

Philip Pape 32:13

I think you hit on some of the really big points today , like , just to recap right , we came into this with the premise why are women struggling to lose fat , or why are they gaining more fat during perimenopause ?

Philip Pape 32:24

And what I heard from you is it is the hormones , but it's not necessarily the hormones , in that what you're doing about it supports your hormones and it's not like you're trying to just therapy your way out of it . Right , you supplement your way out of it and it's really so . It's both . It's all of it together , and you have to understand the change in physiology and that you can't act like you were in your twenties , that you've got to eat enough food and nutrients , enough fiber . You have to have balance . You have to think about your blood sugar . It sounds like a lot , but at the end of the day I think you hinted multiple times eating a variety of whole foods , nutritious foods and like not under eating is a great start . It's a great start and just to kind of segue into ending this episode and then teasing into the other conversation

Strength Training and Movement for Hormones

Philip Pape 33:04

we're having how do cardio and lifting then play into this ? Because it's not just about nutrition , right ?

Brooke Davis 33:09

Absolutely yeah . So I mean , I mentioned muscle . That is a huge supporter of not only blood sugar but of bone health , of longevity , quality of life , which , you know , people in their 20s aren't usually too worried about . But I feel like once you get into your 30s and 40s , you it's at least in the back of your head being like , okay , you know , I don't want to be in a wheelchair or have to be in a walker or have somebody else taking care of me when I'm , you know , 60 , 70 years old . So you know , strength training at least two to three times a week , um , you know , 30 minute sessions and we want to lift heavy . This is , this is I'm going to put heavy in quotes heavy , heavy for you . Um , people hear heavy and they get really intimidated . Uh , women , women here .

Philip Pape 33:52

I have quotes too .

Brooke Davis 33:53

I have a pair of quotes in my pocket too for heavy , just like you do . Okay , yeah , um , but you know , this is uh studies were done on strength training and um is uh studies were done on strength training and um , you know , 75% of your warm rep max , for you know , four to six reps is going to be kind of the optimal range for uh , building muscle but also reducing um , or reducing inflammation , um , basically , longevity markers . There was a bunch of longevity markers tested with these uh ranges and those were the ones that improved the stats the most essentially . And so , um , uh , so , strength training in that capacity , um , plyometrics , those are all going to impact bone density , which vastly decreases as estrogen declines . Um , you know , after age 30 for women , um , and that is . And then , speaking of , you know , quality of life , right , you break a hip after age 65 , you , the 30% of people , die within a year . 60% die within five years , like it's , it's gnarly . So those are really powerful tools and really important tools for again maintaining not just fat loss and metabolism , that kind of stuff , but also quality of life as you age .

Brooke Davis 34:59

And then cardio , cardio gets , I'm going to say , really bastardized but , and so you absolutely need it . You need it for heart health . High intensity exercise , even , is great for even women in perimenopause . But we do have to manage it right . You can't go to boot camp six days a week , you know , for an hour long high intensity class and think that your body is going to be stoked about it . Um , not only are your joints probably not going to love it , um , but also , if that's a major stressor , um , you're probably not eating enough to support that kind of activity as it is . So , um , you know , usually I recommend , um and I mean science recommends you know to to at most usually true high intensity , and that's the other thing is that an hour long class is not true High intensity work shouldn't last usually more than 15 , 20 minutes , yeah , if you're , if you're pushing like you're not lasting more than you know 15 , 20 minutes doing something like that .

Brooke Davis 35:54

And then uh , zone two is another really powerful heart health , cardiovascular supporting way to support your overall fat loss and just longevity through perimenopause .

Philip Pape 36:10

Love it , love it . And if you're listening and you're like , okay , I'm struggling , I'm frustrated , I can't lose weight , even though we're ultimately talking about fat loss , even though we're ultimately talking about fat loss , setting things up the way Brooke talked about today , without stressing yourself with another diet , is a great start , before you then say , okay , now I've got things dialed in , now let me go for some little more aggressive , say fat loss . At that point you know there's an order of things we want to do . So , all right , if you like what you heard in this episode , everyone , um , you're going to want to listen to the second half of this . We kind of hinted and teased at it .

Philip Pape 36:39

Brooke interviews me on Fitness Simplified podcast . It's in your feed right now . Same time , different podcast , of course , fitness Simplified . We're going to talk about muscle metabolism . She explained the hormones really well here , the lifestyle , the nutrition side . So we're going to talk about body composition , muscle metabolism . Search for Fitness Simplified podcast or click the link in the show notes . Brooke , it has been a lot of fun . It's been a pleasure to have you on . Thanks for joining me again yes , thank you .

Brooke Davis 37:05

Thank you , this is awesome , great combo .