Alan's Physical Transformation Journey

Philip Pape 0:18

Thank you so much for joining us feel it . Today we're doing live coaching on his current cut strategy , tackling the post-bulk mindset challenges and figuring out his next steps . If you've ever felt that disconnect between how you look and how you feel , this conversation is going to have some gold for you today . Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency . I'm your host , philip Pape , and today I'm doing something a bit different .

Philip Pape 0:56

We're doing another focused coaching session , this time with Alan , who was on the show way back in episode 77 , talking about his journey with emotional eating and bariatric surgery . So go check that out for the backstory . But Alan has been very busy since then . He has successfully built visible muscle mass . He's flipped around his relationship with food . Now he's dealing with what I call the good problems . You know like how to cut strategically after successfully bulking and that weird mental space where you've transformed your physique but your brain is still kind of catching up . So today's conversation is more coaching focused as we work through his current challenges in real time . We're talking about his pretty aggressive fat loss timeline , the post-bulk mindset hurdles and , of course , mapping out his next phase . Alan , are you ready to do this ?

Allan 1:46

Yes indeed .

Philip Pape 1:48

All right . So people now say that you look like you train , like you've lived , and that you've added visible muscle mass and I definitely can see it and you've sent me before after photos and it's incredible . But you've said you don't recognize yourself in the mirror , but in a good way , right , right , how are you feeling right now about the new you ?

Allan 2:09

Surprised and learning to accept it . I think learning to accept it is a great pivotal point for discussion , because I have to give myself grace , I have to allow for my transformation that's occurred over the past couple of years . You know this is not something that happens within three months time . Yeah , you know . So , for example , my expenditure , when we've my daily expenditure for maintenance , was about 1380 . Um , back in when we did our last podcast in June of 2023 . And now my , my , I'm pushing 1600 . Now , in terms of my expenditure . So I have . So I , when I look in the mirror or I look at my photo of me , sometimes I feel like , you know , adolescents go through something when they're 1415 . They look in the mirror and they go this is what I look like now . So I recently looked at some photos of myself and it was like I don't . It's just a very , very visible reminder of that . I've achieved a certain physique and wellness because I look healthy . That's the most important thing .

Philip Pape 3:20

You do Super vibrant , clear , skin , glowing smile . It's all there . It's right , we all try to vibrant , clear skin , glowing smile .

Allan 3:26

It's all there . It's right . We all try to take care of ourselves , Philip .

Philip Pape 3:28

Exactly that's what we're about , and so I like something you mentioned already , because we get into numbers , we get into data . I think that's important to just peel back reality . We were talking earlier on a Physique University coaching call about reality versus fantasy , and we all have these projections of ourselves from the past and into the future . And you look at something like your metabolism now is 250 or 300 calories more than it was and that's , and that's your kind of maintenance calories that have gone up by that much . And there's an episode I did not long ago and you know it was , uh , inspired by you on what to do with a slow metabolism , because people compare their metabolisms to others and unfortunately that that that can be very difficult when your metabolism is low . But you've got to compare it to yourself of the past , right , and it sounds like you've . That's one concrete change that you've noticed . What are some other in the last two or three years concrete changes that you've noticed ?

Allan 4:23

Chest size , arm size , strength , concrete changes , I think , in terms of coaching , in terms of everything that we've touched upon , I think one thing is that my sleep hygiene has been a lot better . I definitely have a sleep routine and I get six to seven and a half fish hours at night , I'd say . Physically , my legs are solid . Sometimes I sit in a chair and my jeans are stretched and my legs are all swollen , and it's not fat .

Philip Pape 4:59

It's swole , man , it's swole .

Allan 5:01

Right . So I'm like what did I do in the gym to deserve these legs today ? So my forearms are stronger . One thing so through training , the consistency and variety of exercises that I've done over the past couple of years have strengthened my weakest parts . So my forearms used to always give way . Now they don't . My adductor muscles used to give me issues , but I've learned to warm up and I've learned to be smart and wise about the weight that I apply for myself and when . So these are all changes that some of it's mindfulness , but it translates into physicality , if that makes sense .

Sleep Hygiene and Physical Changes

Philip Pape 5:45

A hundred percent , and I didn't mean to limit concrete to just physical , right , because there are concrete mental changes which we're going to dive into . Some of that I want to get into it , and that's actually a good segue , because you wrote me something that I'm really curious about that you recognize your feeling of being fat , because you acknowledge that sometimes you feel that way because , for whatever reason , as actually a fallacy , despite needing to drop some body fat , maybe objectively , and so I think this is a very mature self-awareness about this mental lag that we wanted to talk about today , this mental lag behind the physical transformation , and maybe it'll always be there , right , we're not saying that it's a good or bad thing and it's going to just go away . How are you processing that disconnect between the two ?

Allan 6:31

It gives me a . It gives me a more comfortable resting place , so to speak . Um , like a more comfortable and safer foundation . So , even though I definitely have belly fat , without a doubt , all right , um , and I have some adipose tissue I always joke around with my trainers . I'm strong underneath this layer , you know . But seriously , um . So , in terms of in terms of the question , um , it gives me a safe platform to work for . Medically , I definitely would benefit to lose another 10 pounds . That's not , it's not a whole lot , but my doctor be specific on that , yeah okay , what do you mean ?

Allan 7:11

my doctor said that when I was 172 , when I saw him and he said alan , he goes if you lose five percent , I think . He said then certain markers that you have that are very minimal , but but they will go away . Will organ fat , like liver fat , stuff like that ? He said you're very minimal . He said , but if you lose , get down to 160 , they won't be , it'll be gone . And then if you lose and if you had other scarring issues or anything else which I don't have , if he gave me another number to go to , he said , but this 160 , he said , would be the place that he would want to see me . Similarly , my cardiologist likes me at that weight as well .

Allan 7:52

My bariatric doctor is another story . Last time I saw him he said Alan , he goes . You can't go by the scale , he said . He said Alan . He said you know he goes . Yes , you can lose some weight . You definitely have gained some weight , but some of that is muscle . He said , ideally , I'd like to see you like closer in the lower one sixties . You know that's kind of where his mind is . He said , but you have to also . The bottom line is that you have to see your body composition . He said that's going to determine what scale of weight you end up at .

Philip Pape 8:22

That is the biggest misconception we have to deal with on on this show . I think in in general in the fitness industry . Right Is that a dichotomy between weight and health and where there's sometimes a correlation for sure ?

Philip Pape 8:38

Like if you go from 400 pounds to 200 pounds , I don't care how you did it . If you've lost a bunch of muscle you're probably going to be far healthier . Um , regardless , like there's , there's cases where that's necessary and then there's other cases , like yours , where you're kind of in the optimization point here where , honestly , you probably right now fitter than you know 95% of guys your age , I mean I don't know what percent , if you've looked at percentiles of your blood work or anything you've got to be up there .

Allan 9:08

My blood work is fine , my blood work is good , my blood work is fine . Yeah , my testosterone is actually in there as well . I mean , I , I'm , I'm okay , just um , genetics , so cholesterol issues , you know , like there are things , there are markers that I need to be aware of , um , just based on family history and my own history ,

Mental Lag Behind Physical Change

Allan 9:23

um , and my a1C is still low , you know , it's like 5.3 , you know that's all that . That doesn't move too much . So I'm , I'm , I'm good , um , so , so that's it . So I feel like I definitely want to drop to 160 . I will feel better in my skin , for sure . Phillip , I'm five four . 10 pounds on a five four frame is pretty decent . You know , in terms of , in terms of me , where my fat is , I definitely see a difference .

Philip Pape 9:48

A hundred percent . If I didn't know you and you said , and you told me your height and weight , I would you know . I would generally say , for , like , let's say , younger guy in his twenties and thirties who's 5'9" , you'd want him to be packing on some muscle and pushing 200 , but then leaning out to like 180 or something like that . Right , in general , that's what a lot of guys want to be . So , to want to be 160 , 170 , um , given your history , given your you know age and everything else passes the sniff test . You know what I mean . Like it's not like . I know you , I see you , you're , you're , you're like a stocky , muscular guy . Now .

Philip Pape 10:20

You know , what I mean . That is a compliment and everybody's different , right , everybody's different . So before we get into that situation about what you're doing now , what's working , what's not working , just one real quick thing to tie our last history from a couple or our conversation from a couple of years ago emotional eating . You've said that your relationship with food has become so much easier . You're not avoiding carbs , you love meal prepping . You're posting all the time like wonderful recipes and things like that and helping others in the community too , like here's what you can do , here's some ideas . How has this supported what you're doing and become kind of more positive with your health , the idea of food and your relationship with food ?

Allan 11:02

So emotional eating really doesn't go away . It's more of an understanding of , of everything , Um , in terms of . Can you clarify the question again ?

Philip Pape 11:11

It was a very badly worded question , so there's a lot of avenues .

Allan 11:15

I could take , but what would you like me to talk about , exactly ?

Philip Pape 11:19

I would like you to talk about how the shift in your relationship with food has supported your success over the last two years .

Allan 11:26

Oh , yes , yes , let's go with that . That's it , baby . So , yes , so my relationship with food has supported me . I've learned how to eat again , philip . Okay , I've learned that I could have my sourdough bread as long as it's sliced and pushed and cooked , and I'm not eating half a loaf , although I could eat a half a loaf of salad dough bread . You know , it's not a big deal , but in the general scheme of things , it's not a practice . So so , to be honest , I love going food shopping .

Allan 11:56

Um , I love meal prep . Um , it's a , it's a form of creative nurturing , even though my recipes are kind of standard , um , the fact that I can take a Sunday morning and meal prep , um , just a whole array of different things fish , chicken , my , my eggs and egg scramble with vegetables . Um , sweet potatoes , if I , if I want potatoes during the week . Um , you know , it's just , it's just a nice nurturing thing . I enjoy food . I don't look at food as as something to fill a void . I look at it in terms of a physical need and sometimes training , which is another subject we can get into . Sometimes my training dictates my desire for food more than my emotionality does . Now , if that Does that make sense to you , yeah , You're saying food .

Philip Pape 12:49

it isn't filling an emotional void anymore . It's a practical thing for your body , for your training , for your needs , for your nutrition , and you enjoy the nurturing aspect of making it .

Allan 13:01

Right . But I will say this that there are times when I'm taxed . For example , if a relative is in the hospital and those vending machines at Lorna Dunes are calling me , it's like all I want to do is have a Lorna Dunes package . All I want is you know . But then I go to the machine and I look at all the garbage in the machine and I was like , do I really want this ? And I look at all the garbage in the machine and I was like , do I really want this ? Let me wait a half an hour .

Allan 13:28

Go to the cafeteria downstairs and they have like chickpea salads with arugula and they have other things that I could eat instead of running to the vending machine . So if I'm hungry and I feel like I want to eat emotionally or physically at that moment in the hospital , emotionally or physically at that moment in the hospital I will try to make the best choices that will fill my gut , satisfy my need to eat something , but do it in the realm of adequate nutrition instead of Lorna Doon cookies Not that there's anything wrong with Lorna Doon .

Philip Pape 13:58

No , no , no , yeah , yeah , I had a music teacher in high school who loved them the Lorna Doon cookie , the shortbread but what you're , what you're , what I'm hearing is you've , over time , and after doing the work , you've gotten to a place where you make choices that are aligned with what you want . And it's not always what somebody on the outside would call the perfect choice , cause there's no such thing . It's the best choice available to you in the moment . And we were kind of talking about that , about all or nothing , thinking earlier .

Allan 14:25

Yes , that's what it sounds like . Yeah , nope , that was a great summation . You're absolutely on point with that .

Philip Pape 14:30

Yes , it's a modicum of control that you didn't have before , and really anyone listening that's what we're trying to get to is like how do you have control over the situation in some way more than you do today ?

Allan 14:40

Right A lot of times . I'll , I'll bring , I'll , I'll bring , I'll cook up . If I know I'm going to be the hospital that week for or for a few days , I'll boil up a dozen hard boiled eggs and I'll have those to you know in the hospital . They're ready to go and transportable . So it's just , it's a matter . You're right , so you brought that back to me because it is a matter of making choices .

Philip Pape 15:02

Um , yeah , yeah , so that's good . So this kind of sets the foundation . Now you alluded to a weight and a body composition goal . What are you ? Just just give us a brief overview of what are you doing now . That's , that's kind of working , and feel free to mention anything that you feel is not working . Just high level with your overall routine .

Allan 15:19

Okay , okay , what's working is my workout in the gym . Um , I did about three , four months of iron clad built on two pounds of muscle . Um , really , you know , through it , through it a scan that you know might be accurate . Might not be , but at least , um , there's some visible muscle growth .

Philip Pape 15:40

And now I said two pounds , two pounds . That's good and you already had a good foundation . And just so the listener knows Ironclad , it's like an undulating wave-based , volume-based program that I kind of stole from Alex Bromley Just so people know what Ironclad is Okay .

Allan 15:55

So now I'm training a little differently . I'm training with a trainer and it's more about , I don't know , hypertrophy , it's more about um , you know , hypertrophy it's more about um , going to failure with 15 reps type of deal . Okay , um , and doing , doing like 10 sets a week on a , on a muscle group . You know , that's that same paradigm , but just it's making me hungry as anything . Okay , so , so , so . The gym is working really well , really well . My arms , I mean . I feel the physicality , I feel safe and I feel worked . However , I leave the gym , man , and I'm like where's my bet ? Where's my apricots ? Where's my carbs ? Where's my this , where's my that ? And it's like I've got to reign that in . That is where my difficulty lies right now .

Philip Pape 16:46

Do you feel like the change is strictly from the training approach or the fact that you've been in a deficit ?

Allan 16:56

Both . I think that my deficit based upon my new maintenance , philip and this is something you know you can eyeball and we could discuss so like , instead of having a 1400 or 1500 maintenance , my maintenance is now pushing probably over 1600 . By the time macro factor catches up , the way it's going up every week , I'm going to end up around 1650 , I think . So in that regard , that 1100 , that darn 1100 or 1150 that I see in terms of my goal at 0.8 pounds a week might be too stiff .

Philip Pape 17:34

Isn't that amazing . Like that is fun . That is a phenomenon that I want people to understand . The hunger assuming it's true physiological hunger because for you it probably is at this point you've normalized your signals . You eat quite a healthy dietary pattern overall . That's satiating is pretty much just telling you you need to eat more . The question is , do you kind of fight it to maintain a bigger deficit or do you rise with it a bit to maintain what you were kind of used to ? It gives you a few more options , but we always think in terms of sustainability . So are you letting it rise or are you fighting it ?

Allan 18:10

I'm letting it rise .

Relationship With Food Evolution

Philip Pape 18:12

Okay , and you're still having the same progress because the deficit is the same .

Allan 18:15

I'm losing weight . I'm losing like last week . Last week I definitely ate in my in maintenance .

Philip Pape 18:21

Maybe if my true maintenance is about 1650 , I'm eating 100 calories a little over that or around there no more than 100 calories up and I'm losing half a pound a week . So you met because you mentioned . One of your struggles now after bulking is that your brain telling you you want to eat more because you were eating more . Yes , and yet you need to be in a deficit . This sounds like it's maybe helping .

Allan 18:44

It might be Looking at the new data . Philip , you're absolutely correct . I'm glad we're talking about this , because I kind of felt that maybe you would see it that way . I envision our conversation talking about this . So yeah , so it's helping .

Philip Pape 19:01

Let's take a step back , okay , but hold on , let's take a step back . Um how long were you at maintenance after the bulk ?

Allan 19:07

Oh , by default , or by or by no , seriously , I would say , I would say um a few weeks , I may , I , after my bulk , I didn't , I didn't I , it must've been . It was a while , it was a period of at least three weeks .

Philip Pape 19:26

Was it long enough to feel normalized at that maintenance ?

Allan 19:28

Oh , yes , 100% .

Philip Pape 19:29

Okay , okay , that's what I was getting at . Again , sometimes when you switch fast which I've done , just because I'm impatient when you switch quickly , you could really throw off the hunger signals and then have that issue .

Allan 19:42

But what kicked off my expenditure rising , oddly enough , is , I mean , it is summer , so I'm basically I'm gardening , I'm out a little more . I'm getting I'm definitely getting steps in um is the the um fat loss , rapid fat loss challenge . My expenditure during that , during those two weeks , rose like 30 points . I mean just the graph went like that during the during the rapid fat loss phase , and I think it was in tandem with my increase in activity .

Philip Pape 20:11

Okay , yeah , I was going to say that you wouldn't expect that and also it was too short a period , but that makes sense if I had more activity Unless man . We're discovering weird little mechanisms all the time regarding refeeds and how some people on a certain refeed schedule can get some little boost in their metabolism , but I don't want to overthink that , so it's not overthinking , but I but I definitely think that there was a something cool that happened during that rapid fat loss phase where I lost weight , um , but my expenditure was going up .

Allan 20:41

I was still lifting , I was still , you know , it was still working . After that , I have been on maintenance since , even though technically I'm on a deficit . Some days I'm in a deficit , but if you look at my weekly calories , they're averaging about 1,600 , 1,700 calories a day .

Philip Pape 21:01

So are you on pace at that 0.8 pounds a week .

Allan 21:04

I'm at point . I've been losing a half a pound a week , half a day . So are you on pace at that ? 0.8 pounds a week . I'm at point . I've been losing a half a pound a week .

Philip Pape 21:06

Half a pound . Okay , so I know you want to get another like nine pounds off and at 0.8, . That would take like 11 , 12 weeks , but if you assume less , it could take 16 . Uh , and it is June already , so let's talk realistic expectations , cause I think you mentioned something like August .

Allan 21:24

The end of August , yeah , but that's only eight weeks .

Philip Pape 21:26

Oh , end of August , that's 10 weeks . Yeah , you're kind of in the ballpark . I mean it's not too far . If you ended up at like 163 , would that be at the end of the world ?

Allan 21:35

Not at all .

Philip Pape 21:36

Okay , okay .

Allan 21:36

It would be the world . Okay , so it's a stretch goal , that's good , it's a stretch goal . 160 is a stretch goal , 162 is fine . Also , I want to be as far away as from 170 for medical reasons , not physique reasons , although that's a separate issue . I got it .

Philip Pape 21:54

I got it .

Allan 21:54

I got it . I want to be there .

Philip Pape 21:57

Okay , so there's some really good directional things going on with you . Obviously , your expenditure going up , potentially due to your NEAT , you're at a modestly aggressive deficit . I wouldn't say it's too aggressive . I mean , I know your history . At half , even half a pound to 0.8 pounds , as long as you're hovering at 11 , 1200 calories or more , that makes sense . And then are there any , given your past fat loss phases , do you foresee any type of resistance or expenditure drop that you would predict from the past ?

Allan 22:30

No , not at this time of the year and definitely not Good .

Philip Pape 22:34

Okay , yeah , and is there any other lever ? Are there any other levers we haven't already pulled , because you're pretty solid all around the board with your habits .

Allan 22:44

That's a good question . Yes , there is . What is it ? There might be a couple , and it's a good question .

Philip Pape 22:52

See , this is a coaching man . I don't tell you what to do , I just ask you to tell yourself what to do .

Allan 22:56

Yeah , but the levers are there . The levers are there . So the levers that I have been picking up are steps you have spoken on some of your podcasts Other people speak about man . If you don't get those steps in , it's a big game changer . Those 10,000 to 12,000 steps are are game changers in terms of , in terms of expenditure , in terms of um , weight loss . So that's number one . So I I've pulled that lever recently even more so Um . The other level level lever is

Current Cut Strategy Challenges

Allan 23:30

Philip . I have a hard time with grazing . I have , and this is this is not a physical lever , this is not an action level lever , this is a strategy lever that needs to be addressed . That I have a problem with . I have a problem with grazing and that's and I could easily keep my expenditure to 1400 . You know , if I had to be at 1400 , I mean that my expenditure , my deficit at 1400 , I could do it . But it's the grazing that that tweaks it into maintenance and and and takes me off target a little .

Philip Pape 24:05

Okay , let's , let's put a pin in that for a second Steps . You mentioned as a lover you're more active . Do you have any long stretches of sitting ?

Allan 24:14

I try not to Uh , but yes , I think probably I would say but yes , I think probably I would say living room time maybe three hours a day . Yes , you know , in the morning when I get up I'm sitting at my desk going through emails and everything with coffee for about an hour and then I get to the gym . So I would say I'm sitting , for I would say I would say I'm sitting maybe four , four hours a day for sure .

Philip Pape 24:43

Is it mostly contiguous or do you take breaks ?

Allan 24:47

I do take breaks , I go out and I garden and I do things . My watch says time to stand . But yeah , at times , you know and there's also also I'm up really early in the morning . So some days if I'm up , if I'm up if I go to sleep early , I'm up really early in the morning . So some days if I'm up , if I go to sleep early , I wake up early and sometimes I'll take a 45-minute nap in the afternoon .

Philip Pape 25:16

So late afternoon I might take like a half an hour snooze or something like that , but basically so that's part of my resting of the day , so , um , okay , it's good , I'm not , yeah , and , by the way , I'm not going to take away naps . Naps are great .

Allan 25:31

So that's it . So that's the um . Go ahead , philip .

Philip Pape 25:34

I was just going to say like so this is a big tease for the audience . The next episode after this is about walking breaks and how impactful it is on muscle protein synthesis , as well as like insulin sensitivity and how your body uses nutrients , and so I always think , if there are windows on a daily basis where you could take breaks like every half hour , throw those in . Add some reminders , do a little . It's an easy thing to tweak in your day to day and who knows if it'll have an impact on your metabolism , right .

Allan 26:03

Yeah , I mean , I was thinking about bringing the elliptical into the living room .

Philip Pape 26:08

Yeah , yeah Well .

Allan 26:09

I was asking you to the .

Philip Pape 26:10

Facebook group about those elliptical on the ground things , because I think there's something to be said about , like blood flow . Blood flow is a big piece of it , honestly . Okay , so let's talk about grazing . So I know you're pretty , I'll say , advanced in terms of the psychology of some of this stuff . Like , okay , what's step one ? When we have an issue with emotional eating , it's the trigger , right , identify the root trigger or the cause . What's your thought on that ? Like emotional , environmental , physiological what causes you to graze ?

Allan 26:40

The feeling like I need to eat because I'm lifting weights .

Philip Pape 26:44

That's an interesting one because there could be some reality to it , right , like genuine hunger , your protein is pretty high , right .

Allan 26:54

Yes .

Philip Pape 26:55

Okay , and what's the timing of this grazing ?

Allan 26:58

Because grazing to me seems like all day , but potentially there's Okay , so I usually have lunch about 11.30 , 12 o'clock , and by two o'clock I want more protein and carbohydrates , so I'll have something then and then I'll eat around five o'clock .

Philip Pape 27:17

Okay , when's the grazing occur ?

Allan 27:19

The grazing occurs around two . Oh , grazing two to three , two to four , and then from six , 30 till eight , 30 , if I don't stay out of the kitchen .

Philip Pape 27:32

Okay , and do you like , do you use meal timing , like timed meals is what I mean , like do you have a schedule for your meals ?

Allan 27:40

Unofficially yes .

Philip Pape 27:42

Unofficially , which which implies there's some wheel room . In other words , I'm going through my brain of like what are you not already doing ? That could be a simple um tool to kind of help with this Cause . I again , you know , you know my philosophy on emotional eating is start simple , start small , start easy to try to address it before going deeper and deeper into the psychology . You're an expert in psychology , right , it's in your background and I'm still learning about this stuff , but honestly , that helps . So if you had that spacing awareness via a structured eating window or schedule , could that help ?

Allan 28:19

That would help , but it's not the answer . I think I'm listening to you , I'm listening to what you're saying and in my mind I'm going through this idea that sometimes I think that what I was thinking maybe psychologically if macro factor is telling me that I need to be around 1200 calories , in reality I may need to be around 1400 , let's say for a deficit or 1300 , let's say , okay , stop there , stop there .

Philip Pape 28:51

So are you saying that the grazing has only started recently because of that ?

Allan 28:55

Yes .

Philip Pape 28:55

Okay , okay , then that sounds more logistical . I guess what I would say is do the homework of eating more , which isn't a hard assignment , and report back on whether the grazing goes away , because if that's all it is , that's real hunger .

Allan 29:10

Right . So with the grazing I'm still losing a half a pound a week . So it's just very interesting . So here I have the macro factor numbers in front of me and you know that I honor , know , I honor that , you know . But then at the same time it's like darn , you know , I want a nectarine , like I want a nectarine and a banana , you know . Or I'm craving like fruit , and then I'll have chicken in the fridge and I'll say you know what , I'm going to have three or four ounces of chicken now and I'll have the fish for dinner . So , like , like , so my body is kind of telling me like I need those 200 calories extra during the afternoon .

Philip Pape 29:49

Yes , and this is why I'm asking you to be more intentional Now . I think I think the I think the quote unquote answer since you said that like that's not the I think the answer is to be intentional about what you want to do . Do you want to add the calories in deliberately ? And then you just be intentional , like you know how to do , or and we went , we talked about this earlier like do you want to fight it or not ? And it's okay , if you want to fight it , you know we could do that , in which case we're talking about satiation , like all the things you know , already know and probably have built in um , having a pre-planned snack budget so that when the craving comes , you can flex into it . Gamifying habit stacking , you know , taking a pause and drinking water , right , like all the techniques right .

Philip Pape 30:29

But maybe you don't need any of them . If you just say , no , I'm going to eat 200 more calories , and this is what is going to happen every day , you know . Does that make sense ?

Allan 30:38

It makes sense and it makes sense . Yes , it does make sense , it makes sense and it makes sense . Yes , it does make sense . I'm going to refigure my macro factor and see what it tells me and I'm going to discuss it . I think the expenditure , because it's still on the increase , is cutting me short a little bit . It's lagging , yeah , it's lagging , it's lagging .

Philip Pape 31:01

Yeah , it's lagging .

Allan 31:01

It's lagging . I think that's what's happening and that's why I'm hungry .

Philip Pape 31:05

Okay and that's a good one . The good thing you mentioned there because traditionally in a bulking phase I see this all the time right , where your expenditures estimated at a number and it's rising pretty fast , and so because macro factors in a lagging algorithm based on historical data , it's not going to give you 300 more calories overnight , it's going to just titrate you up . But if your metabolism is going up too fast , you never catch up and then you're always hungry and that's why I would tell clients like I need to eat 200 more calories pronto , so it can happen in a deficit , like you as well , if your expenditure is going up , and so I would just split the difference . I would say , okay , if you've been grazing and getting in 200 more calories , maybe deliberately add 100 more calories and kind of split that difference right now and then let the app kind of bring you up on top of that .

Allan 31:54

That makes wonderful sense , Philip . Okay , yeah , that's wonderful , it makes wonderful sense , and I was thinking , I was , I was , I was waiting to discuss this with you and I wanted to hear your , your decision on this and your wisdom on this , and you are so in sync with what feels right to me .

Philip Pape 32:12

Good . I mean , my other option was going to be a detox juice cleanse combined with fasting . So I'm like , if one doesn't work , we'll try the other I'll take out my Omega , my Omega juicer , we'll try the coffee enema , right yeah .

Allan 32:26

No , seriously no , but I was , I was , I I was looking forward to this coaching call and I wanted to hear your solution and you just said it and it's beautiful , it makes total sense and it fits in once again . It fits into what ? And it fits in once again . It fits into what I intuitively know about what I'm doing and your eyeballing everything and discussion really was right on point with me , so I appreciate it .

Philip Pape 32:55

Would you say that's your biggest bottleneck at the moment ?

Allan 32:59

Yeah , 100% , oh , 100% , okay , say that's your biggest bottleneck at the moment . Or yeah , 100 , oh , 100 , um , the other things are just just um . Last summer I was in the hospital with my dad pretty much from the end of june all the way through , probably till october or november september , you know . So through september . So this summer I decided that I'm gonna enjoy the summer . My , my dad is well , he's stable , everything's good . I'm going to have the summer I didn't have last summer . So I'm out , bicycle riding , I'm walking , seeing friends , doing things you know , instead of being in the hospital every day or every other day . So that's why I'm it's not my why , but it's my conscious way of living right now is to get out and do things and enjoy life .

Philip Pape 33:45

Which potentially reduces your stress as well .

Allan 33:48

Yes .

Philip Pape 33:49

And could also contribute to the physiological change . Not to bring it back to that , I want to acknowledge that you've been through a rough time . It sounds like everything you told me from last year and and you're taking advantage of the , the new environment and situation now . Um , and honestly , that's a makes you a role model , too , for everyone around you . It allows you to support them . Um , the way I see it , so right , it's a very positive thing right , I have family , you know , it's just .

Allan 34:15

Everything is everything is good . Um , I still have concerns , you know . I still have family responsibilities , but I'm able now to take care of myself . In fact , my father also says he wants , you know , he's expressed multiple times that I need to come take care of myself . If I visit him twice and twice , like you know , if I visit , if I visit him on a monday and I go on again on tuesday , he says why are you here again , alan ? He said go home , go home , enjoy your family , enjoy everything . You know you don't have to come every day . So I was like okay , dad , like you're feeling well and you're absolutely correct .

Philip Pape 34:49

That's nice .

Allan 34:50

That's nice , you know so . So so it gives me . He wants me to take care of myself . When I , and I tell him , I said Dad , I said Dad . I want to let you know that even though I , even though you know I'm here a lot and I want you to exercise every day , I take , I'm watching what I'm eating , I'm taking really good care of myself because my parents always that was kind of like always ingrained in us to be healthy , take care of ourselves , not at the exclusion of other people , but we should not get sick over taking care of other people other people , but we should not get sick over taking care of other people .

Philip Pape 35:26

I agree , it's funny . You mentioned that , not to the exclusion of other things . One of our other members I'm not going to name his name just for privacy , but you would know him he sent me an Instagram reel and he's like is this really what people are thinking now ? And it was this guy , it was a comedian , stand-up comedian talking about how if a father has big muscles , he must not be a great dad , because the time it takes to be in the gym , he's not using those muscles to play with his kids . And I'm like it's sad , right ? No , I get it , because it's the biggest common denominator when it comes to comedy and I totally get it .

Philip Pape 35:55

I love standup comedy and it's like a relatable thing because 90% of people probably aren't working out , but you you mentioned , you hit it right in the head where no , it's , it's , it's the thing that allows you to show up and be there , um , and that's great . So , okay , I want to , I want to . I want to stay on point now with some of the some of the things you've got going on into the next six months , because we kind of tackled up till now . We talked about your current deficit . I think you also mentioned that after that , you want to maintain and then go into another bulk . Is that right ?

Allan 36:25

Yes .

Philip Pape 36:25

Cool . Do you think you're going to approach it differently than the last one ?

Allan 36:31

Well , that causes me to pause . That's a great question .

Philip Pape 36:35

Or should you , or is it going to be exactly the same ?

Allan 36:37

No , no , no , no , I'm going to be wiser . Um , I think I know what a bulk is about now . I know how it , how I feel physiologically , I'm very much in tune with it when I lift weights , like , I'm very much in tune with my body , how it feels , how it responds to the progressive overload and visibly what happens to me . Um , so it's been a while and I think I'm wiser .

Allan 36:59

This set , this next book , is going to be the maintenance is going to be maintenance and maybe I may do . You know , depending on where my weight stays , I'll be either the lower end or the

Planning the Next Bulk Phase

Allan 37:12

higher end . But when I bulk , um , it's going to be great because I know the foods that will fuel me and I know , I'll know if I'm gaining too much weight too quickly or actually more fat . I would have to qualify that . I know now what my body starts doing when it gains too much fat over muscle and I'll be able to work with you and play it . You know , every month or every couple of months , say , check in with you and play it . Every month , or every couple of months , check in with you and say this is what's happening , I feel good . Or I may say you know , these extra 300 calories I have might be a little too much for me now and then it's something we can't predict . Let's see what happens .

Philip Pape 38:00

That is no truer statement for anyone listening who has been , or has never been , through a cut in bulk cycles . Every single one is different and if you try to predict from the past , you're just going to be frustrated because it could be way . And it's not that it's better or worse , it just you respond differently . You're a different person , physically when you start the next cut , and environmentally , and you know all that lifestyle . Tell me what . What would success look like for you in this next bulk ?

Allan 38:28

I'm looking at my biceps right now . Are they nice ?

Philip Pape 38:32

and cut now because I want to get these biceps ?

Allan 38:35

no , seriously , what would it feel , what it would be ? Um more health , I think . I think underneath it all , underneath it all ties into my why , or my deeper why , is to keep myself mentally and physically sturdy , um to repair where I've come from and to continue to build solidity in health as I'm approaching my upper 60s . So I think that is where I'd like to be . I'm also , I think , when I envision a bulk filler , I envision doing exercises and movements that are safe , that are taxing , because the bulking is definitely like you want to do those , and I might tap into more strength training at that time with the more calories . And I think that the bulking will also have an effect on my metabolism . Um have an effect on my metabolism , um , I think , as I'm getting older , I think A1C and my family increases and I think that that will continue to offset the um . Any kind of sugar metabolism issues I that may be happening .

Philip Pape 39:55

Ooh , that's good . Okay , so you've got a lot there . I want to break each one down . You mentioned muscle is health . I don't think you said it literally , but that's what I got from that .

Philip Pape 40:05

Yes , that's such an important message for anyone listening that okay , if you have excess weight to lose , fine , you can . You can work on that , but also you've got to . You got to have the muscle . Muscle is health , like you said . It makes you sturdy , it helps you connect with the why of being there for your grandchildren enjoying all the years ahead . Because when you say you're approaching the late 60s and I think of the condition of some people in their 70s , again I just have to say congrats , alan , on the work you've put in , because it's demonstrating you've turned back the clock by 15 , 20 years where you are right now easily you know what I mean Like you're operating , where , like some 50 year olds who haven't taken care of themselves are . I mean you're operating . Better than that , but you know what .

Philip Pape 40:47

I'm saying Um , and then you said to re . You said you want to repair where you've come from . I want to dig into that just to one more level deep . What do you mean by that ?

Allan 40:57

Physically , I was 220 , was 220 pounds . Um , before I had bariatric surgery , I , I had , I went down to like 160 . And when I was in my 40s and then I gained weight , um , when the kids , you know , came to live with us , um , I became daddy again and I cooked and I , who went to the gym , I had that . I was a daddy as I had no time to go to the gym , but I had that I was a daddy . I was like I had no time to go to the gym , but anyways , but eventually I've always , even though it was through being in spin instructor and teaching yoga , I still was always on the , on the bigger size , you know , more of a heavier weight . And then , when they've been so , I , back in 2020 , I was , I reached like 220 again and I , I so , in terms of weight , I don't want to go back there . But when I made that statement , philip , that I want to repair , what did you say to me ?

Philip Pape 41:48

Repair where I've come from is what you said .

Allan 41:51

So my mom passed away . This is a deep why , and I'm sharing this . Maybe it could help somebody . That's the only reason I'm sharing this . My world fell apart . You know , when you have parents and you have arguments and you have , you know , love relationships , but you , you know it's . You know I love my parents , I love my , you know love my mom and we had a wonderful relationship . But when she got sick and she passed away , everything changed . My whole perspective on life changed and my heart broke . I was there when she passed away . She called me to come , called me to come .

Allan 42:44

So it was like that trauma and working through it is something that I'm realizing . I'm picking up all the pieces now . So by doing the cardio to having fun with sprinting , having fun on a spin bike again , listening to music again , getting out for walks , enjoying family , enjoying life , I'm putting all the pieces together again . So a bulk signifies me going to a next phase of health , of solidity , and putting things back in place and enjoying life with the blessings I mean all around , you know , without getting spiritual or anything . That's just kind of how I . That's it .

Philip Pape 43:28

So yeah , so you've carried sounds like you've carried your mother's influence with you forward in a meaningful way . It made it really mean something is what I'm hearing and has made it a source of strength and motivation for you . Is that fair ?

Allan 43:37

assessment , yes , and my grandma , my , her mother , mother when I was heavier back in the 1990s . She said to me in the kitchen one day alan , take care of yourself because nobody else will . So so both you know there's . So I've always had a history of you know , of um , I don't know , just just in general . We've always just taking care of of myself . I guess , is a mantra that's in my head Al , take care of yourself , that's it .

Philip Pape 44:06

That sounds like exactly what you took from it and what you're doing .

Allan 44:09

I mean you're doing that .

Philip Pape 44:09

Everybody gets to hear you talk about this and even though we get into nuts and bolts and fun science-y stuff and how to do calorie deficits and everything , at the end of the day I think we're just saying , look , this is our one and only life and we can do something to enjoy it , and the process of doing that can be enjoyable , like , I think , a lot of what you're doing and sharing with the audience about emotional eating and lifting and everything you know . Sure , there's challenges , but it sounds like you've really embraced it . It doesn't sound like someone who's sees this as a form of suffering or a form of sacrifice . You know what I mean . Even though there's , even though it's hard , it's hard in a fulfilling way , right ?

Allan 44:46

And that's .

Philip Pape 44:47

that's the human struggle . What , what , okay . And then you mentioned this is really great for our older lifters who are worried about injury , and you mentioned doing things that are safe but also taxing . Again , I love that juxtaposition as well , because that's exactly how I would put it . It's like we need to lift heavy as we get older , to support our spine , to support our hormones and health , but people want to do it safely . What does that mean for you ?

Allan 45:11

Form .

Philip Pape 45:12

Form Okay , form and technique .

Allan 45:14

Yep Total .

Allan 45:15

Total form technique and warming up . If there's one thing I could share , no matter what kind of you know , because I'm not you know form , philip . You put on form videos . People can get form videos elsewhere , even in their gym . But the most important thing , I think , as we get older , is the warming up . Okay , I messaged you about a half a year ago or a few months ago about my warm up with squats or warm up with whatever , and I forgot exactly what it was . But and you texted me back your typical warmup , you know type or your suggestions .

Allan 45:48

So warming up , I think , is really essential , because the one time that I got injured was the time that I pushed through my warmup because I had to take my father to a doctor appointment and I said , oh , I could skip , oh , I could skip . I went up 30 pounds instead of 15 . And that's what did it . I was squatting , I was on my way up . It wasn't a crazy amount of weight for other people , but for me it's my beginning of my

Warming Up and Injury Prevention

Allan 46:13

working weight at 150-pound squat back then and I went from like 120 . And also the bar wasn't available , so I was working out in a different place in the gym . So all those things came about and the warm-up failed . I didn't warm up and I pulled my my , my attitude . So I think one thing I I'd like to say I know this was a little rambly everyone needs to warm up and then that you can count your working sets and log them in . But the warmups behind the scene are probably as important as the form , if not more important .

Philip Pape 46:51

You just inspired me , man , to do a whole episode about this , because I think you hit on some important factors about warming up , and we're talking about warming up with the lift itself . We're not necessarily talking about like cardio or dynamic warm-ups , just literally the lift itself . You mentioned , um , or you alluded to the fact that it helps with injury , with safety , with the feel . I would say that it helps program the movement pattern as well which then kind of gets you into a safe motion before it gets heavier .

Philip Pape 47:21

And then even , um , you know you're , you're thinking about being distracted and like trying to go too quickly , like that . That's , that's a mindfulness thing . We've got to understand that this is a important thing . We're doing , we're lifting a lot of weight and we want to , but you got to feel things out . Also , if you're recovering from an injury , I've , I've definitely told clients to warm up more , because then if it's , if they're at the point where they're recovered enough , they'll , they'll slowly feel that soreness or pain like dissipate as they warm up .

Allan 47:49

Yes .

Philip Pape 47:50

Because you've got that residual pain . Sometimes it's more of a mental pain than anything , but if it still hurts , you'll catch it early in the warmup . You could say , all right , I need to make an adjustment .

Allan 47:59

One other thing that I want to hit , philip , everything you just mentioned is right on point and in my mind I just thought about something else that perhaps warming up is a form check as well . It's a period of time where you're using manageable weight and you can get that proper body angle . If you're doing , if you're doing you know barbell rows , standing barbell rows you want to get that perfect angle and that diagonal movement into your belly with the bar . You know , because you're kind of like movement and keeping your hands in a certain so like when you're using lighter weights , you can definitely get your movement intact .

Philip Pape 48:41

Figured out oh , a hundred percent , cause it's going to be a little clumsy that first warmup set . Even if you're skilled at this , you're like kind of like getting it just right . And then you can say , oh , wait a minute , I'm not tucking the elbows , well , I'm not doing this , or whatever , and you can just yeah , exactly .

Allan 48:55

And you know what's crazy , philip , that sometimes it's these little nuances of movement that make all the difference .

Philip Pape 49:00

It's true , it's true , oh yeah , I preach that to the cows . Come home and every , every movement has has it's a range of things you could do .

Philip Pape 49:08

One more thing you mentioned was you talked about A1C . For those listening , this Friday's episode is coming out with Ben Zeal really great guy , I mean , he and I are going to be friends I could tell already just from having recorded one show together and he has type one diabetes and it's all about blood sugar management combined with nutrition and training . And we get into A1C and you mentioned how building muscle we were talking about your bulk just now , alan and you talked about A1C and I want people to understand the connection is that having more muscle increases insulin sensitivity and blood sugar management to the point where my belief at this point , alan , is , unless you have a lot of weight to lose , just being active and lifting , you really don't have to worry about blood sugar . You really don't . I mean , eat balanced meals , eat nutritious food , but don't worry about it . You don't even need to measure it unless you've got some specific issue like diabetes or something . Do you agree with that or do you find that

Muscle and Health Benefits

Philip Pape 50:00

? Is that what you meant by dementia ?

Allan 50:02

you can see . Yeah , I agree , I agree . My cardiologist told me Alan , he goes . I can't believe I have diabetes and to look at him you would never know . But he said Alan , he said I have . You know he was diagnosed with diabetes and he said you know what ? You know what was told to me lift weights it is , it's the solution .

Philip Pape 50:22

He said .

Allan 50:22

He said alan , he goes . I have a trainer now and I'm lifting weights , so so it .

Philip Pape 50:27

Muscle is a sink of for glucose yeah , it's a sink , and the act of the act of training it also uses the , the glucose and moving and moving and not being sedentary I , I'm going to look forward to that .

Allan 50:40

Yes , I'm going to look forward to that , but , yes , I definitely feel that , um , the whole constellation , the nutritional approach , plus the lifting weights , plus my walking , it all combines to to create a constellation of good health markers , you know , or better health markers than they would be if you weren't , if I wasn't doing this . Yeah , so , even though I still have some health markers , they've gone down . Um , I still have things , you know . I mean , you know , um , there are things I have to watch out for , which is you know that that you know , everyone has medical history , um , but it's nowhere near where it could be if I wasn't , you know . Does that make sense ?

Philip Pape 51:23

Oh , yeah , no , a hundred percent . A hundred percent , and people have to understand it . So I think your experience today , that you've shared what you've gone through , what you're going to go through , tells the story itself , makes the convincing case for it . I don't think we have to like say to the listener , hey , you need to start lifting weights . Like , just just take , do what Alan's doing , man , and you're going to be healthy , is my take on that . Just start where you're at what feels most actionable now going forward , like what's your biggest takeaway today ?

Allan 51:53

Oh man , my biggest takeaway is having a breather and saying I don't need to think about 1,200 calories , maybe I can go to 14 . And that , to me , gives me such a relief because you know me , philip , I'm so fastidious , so I try to be fastidious . You know , and I was losing it because my you know I was losing that , that you know that clarity in my focus .

Philip Pape 52:14

Confidence and clarity . Yes , I was losing the clarity .

Philip Pape 52:17

You know , if someone's listening who has never tracked their food before and has no idea what to do , and they're frustrated , that's what you're , that's the same thing , even though , even if you're not as advanced as where Alan is like , just tracking your food and knowing what your expenditure is gives you the clarity at least know . Oh , here's why I'm not losing weight or not getting the thing I want , and and not not to let it , you know , make you feel bad , but to give you data to act from . So , and here's why I feel like I'm fighting with hunger .

Philip Pape 52:45

And it's your body , biofeedback telling you what to do , and it's not because you eat Oreos and Lorna Dunes all the time and that's why you're hungry . It's you've got everything dialed in and your body is actually saying no , I'm hungry , and the data is now correlating , giving you the confidence that , okay , I'm not going to balloon up and wait .

Allan 53:02

So that's number one . I just said one man .

Philip Pape 53:04

I just said your biggest . What are you doing here ? That's it . No , I'm just kidding . What's the next ?

Allan 53:08

one . No , no , there's no real next one . This just reminds me of how our coaching is so valuable and so informative . Just to be able to discuss this , come to a reasonable foundation to build upon for the next step , for the next couple of months , knowing what's going to happen in the fall , it's a beautiful feeling , a solid feeling of now I know what I'm doing and both of my feet are on the ground and I'm ready to go .

Philip Pape 53:45

Good , that's what we want , alan . That's why we're doing these calls Um , and then people can hear what the process looks like as well . You know ? Just just so , everyone knows this is a . This is a prize that Alan won , let's say , as a result of a challenge he did . He did the um . That was the rapid fat loss challenge , right ? Uh , that he won't , he won't . He was voted the winner and we do these challenges and if you're voted the winner , you get a free call like this or you can do it for the record , for the podcast .

Philip Pape 54:05

But more importantly is um the , the support that you get . Like Alan mentioned , sometimes you need a third party to talk to you and you know , if you don't have a lot of money and you want to join a free Facebook group , we have that . Come in and say hello and talk about your issues . We were just having a chat in the Facebook group chat today . Somebody was asking about protein and they said they were eating amino acids and I kind of challenged them and said you know you may be wasting your money . You could just eat real food and get great results and you know , it's those little things that people just need that third-party perspective . If you want a little more , if you want more custom support , check out Physique University . It's two weeks free . Alan's been there for

Final Takeaways and Solutions

Philip Pape 54:45

a while because he doesn't want to leave . We've got coaching calls , you've got nutrition plan , you've got workout programs . You've had a lot of great people . Alan , is there anything else you want to add about that or anything else before we sign off ?

Allan 55:04

No , wlpu is a great forum , for we share ideas , we share support , we share recipes . It's just . This is a great place , it's a great forum . It's one of the things I check out in the morning while I'm having my coffee and see if anybody posted from the previous evening . It's just a great way , great structure , and it's a great way to access some of your coaching too , philip .

Philip Pape 55:21

Yeah , for sure . No , I mean , I'm in there every day . You guys can tag me , we've got the courses , we've got all the fun stuff , but I anyway not to make this a pitch for it , but that is how Alan ended up on the show today and I want to thank you everybody for checking this out . Alan , thank you so much for being open about things . You know you're great at digging in to the details , but also tying it to your why and tying it to the history of what's important to you , and this is an honest conversation that is going to help people . So I thank you so much .

Allan 55:48

You're welcome , you're welcome , and thank you for everything you do for the , for the fitness community .