A Remarkable 340-Pound Transformation

Philip Pape 0:01

If you think massive weight loss requires extreme measures , surgery or giving up your favorite foods forever , this episode will challenge everything you believe about sustainable transformation . My guest today lost over 340 pounds , and he did it without bariatric surgery . Instead , he combined three simple tools that are now available to many but often used incorrectly GLP-1 medication , walking and lifting weights . But weight loss was just the beginning . You're going to discover why his shift in mindset might be more important than the 340 pounds he lost . You'll learn the four rules that kept him consistent when motivation failed and why lifting weights became his secret weapon for keeping the weight off . Whether you have 20 pounds or 200 pounds to lose , stick around and learn why transformation requires a different approach than you might think . Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency .

Philip Pape 1:06

I'm your host , philip Pape , and today we're going to talk about one of the most remarkable transformations that I've ever seen . My guest is Jamie Selsler , who struggled with obesity since childhood . He reached over 650 pounds before starting on a journey that would see him lose 340 of those pounds maybe more by now . We'll get into it through a combination of helpful tools , sustainable practices and a deeply meaningful shift in his mindset no surgery , no extreme diets and , in fact , no cardio . Instead , jamie built an approach based on his four rules for sustainable change . Today , you'll learn how Jamie went from feeling like his body was a prison to developing greater self-respect , automatic discipline and a better life , plus the exact next steps you can apply , regardless of where you're starting or how far you have to go . Jamie , I'm glad we can make this happen . Welcome to Wits and Weights .

Jamie Selzler 2:00

Huge honor to be here . Philip . Love your show , love your content . It's really helped me a lot along this process . So kind of can't believe I'm here . It's especially weird hearing you do the introduction like live and in person . I'm so used to hearing it on the podcast . But it's awesome .

Philip Pape 2:15

Oh man , that's humbling to me . That really makes my day , because I know you reach out to me and you're like I'm a fan of the show . I'm like I'm't have the show , no , and I loved it . You mentioned that you were on Mind Pump there's . For anybody listening who follows that show , which a lot of you do go check out his video in the episode there . It's phenomenal . And what we're going to do today is try to dig even deeper into the journey so that the listener can come away saying look , it's not that , there's no excuse I hate to use that like fit bro . There's no excuses , bro , it's more of no matter what situation you are in on this planet , there is a way to move forward , and I think that's what we want to come out here . So if you went back in time , you have the version of you that I think reached 652 pounds .

Jamie Selzler 2:54

Yeah .

Philip Pape 2:55

And they could just talk to the you now right , not just the physical but the mental you , because I suspect that's far more of a change than the physical . What would he be most surprised about ?

Jamie Selzler 3:06

I think that me , at 652 pounds , would be most surprised that I look for reasons to move my body as opposed to look for reasons not to move my body . I mean , that would be that's been the biggest change . I mean , other than the mental aspect , but something like you know my heavier weights I'm certainly my heaviest weight . Even walking 20 or 30 feet was difficult and now if I can walk an extra 30 feet , I do it . I mean , whatever the reason is , I mean I'll go to the law , I'll take the few extra steps to take a different door if it means a few extra steps . So that's the thing that I would probably be the most surprised about . That I've done .

Philip Pape 3:48

It's apropos that you said that , because I literally got off of a group call in somebody else's group and it was a Q&A and everybody was really excited to talk about lifting weights and building muscle and there was one person I can tell she probably wouldn't have been in my group because there's a certain filter you have , like listening to the podcast coming in , you're excited , and she didn't quite get , like why should you even lift weights ? Like , and she used terms like I'm a lazy person and I don't have much time and and I'm thinking of the framing behind all of this and how you just said like you look for reasons not to move , and I get that sense from folks . So maybe , just jumping off that point , if someone's thinking like , is it the why that I need to find ? Is it the motivation ? Is it what ? Is it the why that I need to find ? Is it the motivation ? Is it what is it ? That was the catalyst that got you from there to here .

Jamie Selzler 4:27

In that respect , yeah , well , I'm , you know I've been , oh , I've been well over 500 pounds . I'm 47 right now . That's how you know you're old . You have to remember what your age is . I'm 47 now and I've been well over 500 pounds since I was 20 or 21 and was bigger before that as well .

Jamie Selzler 4:45

And to be honest , for most of that time , well into my late 30s , my mobility wasn't actually a huge problem for me . I was certainly a little slower , a little weaker and I couldn't do all the things I wanted to do , but it never felt like a problem to me . But then , three or four years ago , when I got to about 43 years old , it's sort of like you go over a cliff when it comes to health , and that's why , when people say that you can be healthy at any weight or any size , it's like sure , at any moment in time you may be healthy . But the reality is , if you are carrying a lot of extra weight , it's not a matter of if something bad is going to happen to you , it is when something bad is going to happen to you . And so , over the course of just a couple of months , I started experiencing some major changes when I got north of 600 or 650 . I suspect I was probably closer to 700 , although I stopped weighing myself for a year at my heaviest , just because I didn't want to deal with what I saw on the scale .

Jamie Selzler 5:38

But I realized that no one my size was alive in their 50s . I have a really good friend who's in his 70s and had dinner with him and his wife , and he pulled me aside afterwards and said Jamie , I want you to go to my funeral , I don't want to go to yours . And here's a guy who's in his 70s telling you that he's probably going to your funeral and you're just barely cracked 40 years old . It opened my eyes to realize that no one my size was still alive in their 50s .

Jamie Selzler 6:07

And even worse than that for me is that my mobility became really a challenge . I couldn't walk more than 20 or 30 feet without being out of breath . I needed a walker or a cane to get around my apartment . It meant that I had so much pride . I didn't want anyone to see that , and so I stopped going out . I got stuck on a toilet once where I just couldn't physically get up , and so there were all these things that were happening about the same time , both external people saying things to me . Internal could barely move and just being aware that not only was I going to be dead early , but the years I had left were going to be terrible and realize that the motivation .

Jamie Selzler 6:47

I think there's a difference between motivation and inspiration . I don't still have a lot of motivation . I'm usually not motivated to do the stuff I do now , when , if I am motivated , it's awesome , but it's more inspiration . And what inspired me is that I didn't want to die . I didn't want to die young and if I was going to die young , I didn't want the years I had left to be terrible .

Philip Pape 7:06

And it sounds like you almost crossed the Rubicon , right , I would say , if you think of a normal curve in the population and all of our experiences , let's be honest , most people aren't that fit walking around right now in modern life . But also very few people have pushed to the level you did of risking your mortality . You know at a modestly young age to to be able to see it in your face and hear it from people what might happen , and I guess anybody listening , even if you are not where Jamie was at that point , you can forecast that kind of future as some type of it If you keep going down a certain path . So I'm totally going off script here , jamie , but like what should people be thinking of right now that they are or aren't doing that could lead down that path , even if it's not to that extreme , and maybe that's kind of a vague question . If you know what .

Jamie Selzler 7:53

I'm getting at . Yeah , I mean , the truth is no , no one chooses to be my size . No one , I mean no one chooses to be 300 or 400 or five or 600 plus pounds . And I think sometimes when you see people like that , you think why would they do that to themselves ? And the reality is no one wakes up and says , you know , I should say , hopefully people don't wake up one day and say I want to be 650 pounds one day . What happens over the course of time it's that 10 pounds a year , five pounds a year , 20 pounds a year that sort of adds on and builds on itself over and over . It's a lot of . You know , I'll start Monday and you have a great Monday and then by Tuesday you've fallen off your new plan and so that's how you get to be that big . And so part of why I'm doing this and talking about my story is , while it's unlikely that most people are going to get to my size , I am genetically gifted , probably genetically ungifted as well .

Jamie Selzler 8:53

I'm genetically gifted in that I have not had any significant health issues along the way . I think many people would have had a heart attack or a stroke before they got my size , and so that's the wake up call for them . I'm very grateful I never had that wake up call , but my message is that you should start now , and if they're listening to your podcast , they have started , or maybe it's certainly possible that someone found this episode because they saw my story and like they've never considered it before , and I guess my

When Health Goes Over a Cliff

Jamie Selzler 9:23

message is you should start now . Do not wait until you get to be my size or anywhere even close to my size , because it is . I have empathy for people who got to lose 20 or 30 pounds . That's hard to do . Losing two or 300 or 400 pounds is beyond description difficult , and it's better to fix your problem now before it gets worse .

Philip Pape 9:47

Yeah , I can imagine that would feel overwhelming , and that's , I guess , the other side of the coin is hey , you did it , and so of course it's possible . And now let's get into some of the ways that it was possible , because that's the optimism bias in me coming out always is like what can you do about it ? That's in your control . So you've talked about that . You've said you're a confident guy , but you didn't really respect yourself until you started keeping the promises . What is that difference between confidence and self-respect ?

Jamie Selzler 10:15

Yeah , I mean confidence . To me , confidence feels like I can be in a room and command the room if I need to ensure that my opinion is heard . That's what confidence is to me . Confidence is that if I attempt to do something , I'm confident that I'll be able to accomplish it . That's different than self-respect and I don't think I was respecting myself with that size and I put self-respect in there with self-love and I've always thought that I've loved myself . I always thought that I respected myself .

Jamie Selzler 10:51

But ensuring that your body becomes a tool for you that allows you to accomplish all your goals , that is a very high form of self-respect and it is a miracle that I have been able to do anything that I've done in my life professionally or whatnot , being at the size that I was , life professionally or whatnot , being at the size that I was , exhibiting that little amount of self-respect . Now I want to be clear Everyone is worthy of respect at whatever their size is . I constantly say you are worthy of love and respect and empathy and compassion , regardless of the size of your body . My obesity , I truly believe , is a disease . I needed to treat that disease medically in conjunction with lifestyle change and mindset change . But self-respect also means that you acknowledge if you are powerless over something and need help along the way , whether that be the help of a doctor or a dietician or a coach like yourself or someone . Asking for help is also a good way to show respect for yourself , and I was not asking for help for many , many years .

Philip Pape 11:46

Yeah , I can see that , and the idea that self-respect is equivalent to self love is interesting , because if you didn't have for a while self-respect what you said ensuring your body becomes a tool for you to achieve your goals we're going to that's my drop moment , right there . That's , that's , that's really the epitome of it . Did you does that mean you didn't have self love , or did you always have have a love for yourself that wasn't manifested through your actions , or something like that ?

Jamie Selzler 12:13

Yeah , when I joke , you know , as sexy as hell at 652 pounds , I can't imagine a better looking 652 pound man out there . Granted , there are not that many of us so I can say that . But no , like I think the . I think I've always loved myself and I view the love as thinking that I'm worthy of love from others . I've always felt that I'm worthy of that and I'm grateful , you know , for having parents that have kind of instilled that in me when I was young . I never have hated myself , but , you know , doing what I do now .

Jamie Selzler 12:43

Now I talk to a lot of people who are often are at the start of their weight loss journey and there's a lot of self-hatred there where they they feel like because of the size of their body , they're not worth loving themselves , they're not worth anyone else loving them and not worthy of loving themselves , and so this whole thing's a process . You know , none of this is just a switch . That's why mindset change is so important . My self-love improved , my self-respect improved over the course of time and , honestly , part of it starts with just sort of forgiving yourself for whatever condition or shape you're in now , wherever you are in life , it's okay to and not even okay , you really should forgive yourself and say I've done the best that I could with what I had , with the knowledge I had , and it got me here .

Jamie Selzler 13:28

I've had lots of failures . I'm going to choose to your optimism mindset . I'm going to choose to be optimistic and say every single failure I had was just it taught me what doesn't work . Well , that's great . Over the course of years , I was able to whittle down all the stuff that didn't work for me until eventually I found something that did , and that's part of loving and respecting yourself . And giving yourself forgiveness is acknowledging the value of what got you to where you are .

Philip Pape 13:51

So forgiving your past self then , where you've had this decades of , I guess , shame and things that have failed . Like you said , there are lessons and if it's not a switch , then where's the catalyst for that ? Is it a concrete ? We know affirmations go way back when and they get kind of poo-pooed right , but they could be powerful . What can somebody do right now ? Who's like it's never worked for me , nothing's worked for me . I feel shame , I'm disgusted with myself . All of that . You're kind of saying what can they do right now as an exercise , potentially to change that ?

Jamie Selzler 14:25

Make one promise to yourself that you know you can absolutely keep . Great , and I think about this often If you love someone in your life , you don't demonstrate I mean you can say you love them , but you demonstrate your love to someone by keeping your word to them . We call them vows in marriage . You make a promise to someone and you keep it , and that's how you prove you love someone . If you continually break your promises to somebody , you're just saying I don't love you . Well , if you are breaking your promises to yourself , you're sending that exact same message to yourself . And so you know , I look back and have created this new mindset for myself .

Jamie Selzler 15:01

It's not like I started at this process at six , six , 50 and said I'm going to start keeping all my promises to myself , like I didn't start that way . At some point I looked back to think like all right , I've had some success . What's changed in my life ? That's how I came up with my mindset . And but the biggest thing was that anyone can start today is make a promise to yourself , and it could be something as basic and simple as like what I do every time I'm sitting down . Every time I get up , I take a drink of water , not a whole glass necessarily , unless I can , but I just take a drink of water that allows me to keep my hydration levels really high , like that's a I just gave you . If you're listening , I just gave you a promise you can make to yourself that you know you can keep .

Jamie Selzler 15:40

The promises you make to yourself should be achievable . They shouldn't be easy necessarily , like I don't want to make a promise to myself , I'm going to drink one glass of water a day . That's not a challenge for most people . But make a promise to yourself that you know you can keep and just do that for a while . You don't have to make a whole bunch of them . Just prove to yourself that you can actually keep a promise to yourself and then do another and another , and another . All of us including myself , including you , philip , including you listening have probably you can probably count two or three promises that you've broken to yourself just in the last week , maybe even today , and so it's not like it's possible to just never break a promise to yourself , but just decide which promises are truly important and just and keep those promises . That really changed everything for me . I mean literally everything changed once I started doing that .

Philip Pape 16:32

Yeah , that makes a lot of sense , especially when it's broken down to the micro level . Right , I was thinking , okay , I recently installed an app on my phone that reminds me every half an hour to get up , you know this is me , the fitness guy who lifts weights , who walks , and still I'm sitting in front of a computer for hours at a time and the promise to myself is you're going to get off your butt and the reminder comes

Self-Love vs. Self-Respect

Philip Pape 16:52

up . And what do I do ? Sometimes , remind me later , right ?

Max 16:54

Like it happens .

Philip Pape 16:55

So you break your promises sometimes , but if it's achievable , at least it gives you the best chance of doing it , especially when combined , like you said , with habit stacking or with tools and help . And so that's a good segue into the things that you did have to overcome , some of which required tools and help . And why don't we just dive into the food side , because that's obviously very important to this discussion . One thing that I know affects a huge majority of people who've struggled over the years is the food noise .

Philip Pape 17:24

We blame people for their actions of eating too much , and I always say that calories in , calories out is the end chain of a long chain of root causes , and then when you go back in that chain , it's like a fishbone where there's like 50 different possible causes going on . You've got to figure out the one that makes sense for you . Causes going on You've got to figure out the one that makes sense for you . You've talked about food noise , glp-1s and how that , I think , became part of all the emotions you had , right , positive and negative emotions , celebrations , sadness , boredom . So tell us about that journey and then how you got it quieted down , and then we can talk about like okay then , what did you fill that in with ?

Jamie Selzler 18:03

Because I know that's the next challenge and then we can talk about like okay then , what did you fill that in with ? Because I know that's the next challenge . So food noise . I didn't know what food noise was . In my case , food noise was , and I have not had it for a few years now but food noise was thinking about food all the time , and so a few examples I can give you is let's say I'm eating lunch on a Tuesday , I'm thinking about ordering pizza on Friday , because that's one thing I always did , and so all the time as I'm eating , I'm thinking about that . I'm thinking about what my next meal is going to be . Before I even am done with my current meal , I am constantly plotting . My mind is thinking all the time about where will I get food next , and it's sort of an overwhelming feeling and an analogy that I use for folks .

Jamie Selzler 18:50

If you're out there and don't experience this , if you just go throughout your life and you're not really thinking about food unless you're actually hungry , imagine that you have a kid and you go to the grocery store let's call him Timmy and Timmy's your son and you bring Timmy to the grocery store and you're picking up stuff for dinner that night and Timmy sees a candy bar and wants the candy bar as kids do you know , timmy ? So Timmy says can I have this ? And you say , no , timmy , you can't . We're going to have dinner soon . And Timmy starts throwing a temper tantrum . The kid is screaming , he's crying . We've all experienced this as a parent , or we've seen it in a grocery store . The kid is having a tantrum and you as a parent have a choice Give him the candy bar , even though you know it's wrong . You know it's encouraging behavior . But unless you do it you can't get anything else done . That's what food noise is . Food noise is Timmy screaming in your ear constantly till you just give in , even though you know it's not right , and then you can go about your day and get your stuff done . And you may think that it's possible to just ignore Timmy , because sometimes you do in the grocery store . But imagine if Timmy is doing that all of the time on the car ride home , at night , when you're trying to sleep , when you're waking up . That's food noise .

Jamie Selzler 20:08

And in my case , the only thing that has ever solved the food noise is starting a GLP-1 . And I used to joke that a GLP-1 is like giving Timmy up for adoption , but I realize now that's kind of a dark thing to say , so in this case it's just leaving Timmy at home when you go to the grocery store . And GLP-1 medication completely changed my life . It really has taught me that obesity is a disease . When that food noise went away and it didn't at first , it took a few months on a GLP-1 for it to work for me .

Jamie Selzler 20:36

When it went away and I realized that I wasn't going about my life thinking about food constantly , it was really eye-opening . I didn't know that what I thought , that what I was experiencing was different . I thought everyone , I thought that was everyone all the time and I just figured the people who were thinner than me were just better at it . They just had more willpower or whatever . But it's an actual thing and I am a case study for what happens . One , the food noise exists and two , what can happen once it goes away . And so it's perfect . And I've used willpower and discipline and all that stuff to do this . I would not have done this without a GLP-1 . I know I wouldn't have because I've tried it hundreds of times .

Philip Pape 21:24

And do you have you done any genetic testing , like do you know if they're ? Because I'm really curious now with all the research going on with these and the dual agonists and now we have triple agonists coming out of who's impacted the most and do they have any genetic differences ? Like Stephen was on the show , you know , he talks about brain-related genes that affect appetite . We also know there's epigenetics right by living a certain lifestyle for long enough , it could potentially exacerbate things like food noise . So have you done any testing ?

Jamie Selzler 21:52

like that or I have not , but I would love to you know the DNA testing I've done is , like you know , through the the , you know the family stuff that you can look at kind of where you're , where you're from .

Philip Pape 22:00

I would love to do some genetic testing though there's a few companies and I've had a couple on my show too I wonder . I just wonder if they look at those genes or if we even know what they are . You know what I mean .

Jamie Selzler 22:11

The thing is , I'm always happy to be a test subject for anything . At this point , sure , sure , no , it's fascinating Because I'm just , I'm happy , I want , hopefully , I just want people to learn from in the process , and so that's what I'm trying to do for others .

Philip Pape 22:25

Well , I'll say that the thinking in the fitness industry on JLP1s , which is a very nascent field other than the Ozempic you know people who worked with folks with diabetes . Obviously that's been around for I don't know , 15 , maybe even 20 years . I had a client with on Ozempic before I even knew nobody . Anybody knew what it was . But there's definitely schools of thought and I had to come through my own journey of thinking and I think of epistemology , right , which is the science of knowing , or the philosophy of knowing , how , at any one era in time , humans think they know everything and it's obvious and then all of a sudden something shatters our beliefs and you have to rejigger your brain to that . And I try to be open-minded . You know that's the goal in this industry because things always change .

Philip Pape 23:06

And you know my first thoughts , like many fitness people , were the willpower versus the obesity , versus the food noise thing , like , is this just a shortcut , right ? You hear this narrative , of course , and I've come around to realize how powerful and positive a tool can be . I think I even did an episode or two about it . Powerful and positive a tool can be . I think I even did an episode or two about it and the food noise thing . Regarding GLP-1s , I don't think I have it . So when you mentioned you know if you have it or not did it start from a young age ? That's my first question .

Jamie Selzler 23:36

Yeah , I mean , I think I first started gaining weight when I was nine or 10 years old , went to my grandparents' place over Christmas break and they had a refrigerator full of soda and they're like . We never really drank soda as a kid . We were there for two or three weeks and they're like anytime you want something , go , and I became a sugar drink fiend in the course of a couple of weeks and so prior to that , I used to get my allowance money and I'd buy baseball cards and then after that , I'd use my allowance money to buy Mountain Dew , which became candy bars , and that's when my weight I really started to gain weight as a teenager and beyond , and so it had always been there , and so I don't know . That's why I'm curious about this . I don't know if the food noise began because I had gained weight or whatever , and reality is at this point I don't know that . It matters a whole lot .

Jamie Selzler 24:25

When it comes to when it comes to coaches out there and I'm guessing you have a lot of fitness professionals who listen to your podcast I see this all the time on . So I am . I'm now on social media much more often , on a Tik TOK or Instagram , and there are a large number of coaches out there who and and I remember hearing this on your there are podcasts that I love , that like yours , where I will hear a message at some point , where it's the host of the podcast just basically say , well , it's the easy way out , or I don't believe in them , or they're bad , and I will just stop and I'm like , well , I guess this person not that someone out there has to be a huge fan of these things . But if you were a fitness professional out there , any tool that someone uses that allows them to get healthy is a good tool . For some it may be a bariatric surgery , for some it may be a GLP-1 medication . For others it may be a very specific way of eating or a certain diet . Whatever , whatever method someone uses , as long as it's a healthy method that they work with their doctor on , that's a good thing . Method that they work with their doctor on , that's a good thing .

Jamie Selzler 25:34

And when you are a fitness professional trashing GLP-1 , one , you are a really bad business person because people I think there was this perception out there among fitness professionals that , oh , people are just going to use the GLP-1 and then they're not going to need a coach anymore . They're not going to go to the gym anymore , and I think it's the opposite . I think GLP-1 is opening up a market , potentially millions of people who never would have gone to a gym or who never would have hired an online coach or never would have done any of this stuff . And so to just ignore or , even worse , trash GLP-1 makes no sense to me . Obesity is a disease . Glp-1 treats that disease , which allows a person to make changes in their life . Is everyone doing that ? Probably not . Are there some people who are using it as just an appetite suppressant ? Probably , but there are many people who actually want to make lifestyle changes and have not been able to until now .

Understanding Food Noise and GLP-1s

Philip Pape 26:30

Yeah , you hit it on the head and offline you can tell me if I've ever had the wrong message , because early on I did have a conversation . It was like the dark side of GOP once , and then later on it's like I'm talking about how do we preserve muscle on these things ? How do we improve our lifestyle ? How do we ?

Jamie Selzler 26:44

you want to come off of them . Your advice is too good for me to just stop . Okay , okay .

Philip Pape 26:48

But hopefully more recently it's changed because I feel like I have also evolved with that and I leave all my old episodes up because why not ? You know that's your truth , so that's interesting . I listened to a recent I think it was a news podcast , I don't know what it may be on Vox or something they're covering , like exercise more now , and they were talking about GOP ones , and this gentleman said look , he had an addictive personality . He was addicted to substances , you know , narcotics and alcohol and food , and for him it shut off all of that as well . We're seeing research that goes beyond food , which is powerful . Like you said , it's a tool , and then it raises not raises the question . It almost proves the idea that there is something else going on . That behavior alone doesn't seem to be able to be enough , which is awesome . So I'm all for tools . When the food noise quieted down and you started taking these , like , did you feel a vacuum of some sort that you missed , or was it just like hunky-dory ?

Jamie Selzler 27:42

No , I definitely did . I wasn't aware . I mean , it's hard to explain I was not aware how important food was in all of my emotions in my day-to-day life , like I , because it was just ingrained in my , my personality for so long . But you know , if I ever had a great day at work or I had good news , like food was the first thing I'd think about . Like what am I going to get some donuts or whatever ice cream to celebrate as a reward ? If I was having a bad day , like I would use food , you know , to deal with that or more . And if I was bored or lonely or food was just , my initial reaction was the emotion . And then the immediate follow-up reaction is like what can I do to celebrate or mourn or whatever with food ? So when the food noise went away , that also went away .

Jamie Selzler 28:33

And now I realize that how do I reward myself now , because my rewards were all food related . If I'm dealing with some rough emotions from sadness or boredom or whatever , what do I fill that with ? If I'm not and it really in many ways is like losing a friend and I've been talking about this more lately and it's resonating with people where they especially those on GLP-1 , they realize , oh wow , there's a gap there that used to be there . And in my case I've you know , I sort of have filled it with , you know , fitness stuff . So listening to podcasts and reading and studying and creating my own content . Now that's what I've filled that with , and I am just as addicted to the fitness stuff now as I was to food before , but this is a much , much healthier one to do . I get .

Philip Pape 29:24

I get that completely . So now I'm wondering you know so , on your journey now , are you still trying to lose weight ?

Jamie Selzler 29:31

Yes , sort of . I tell people I don't have . We'll talk about input versus output goals later . I don't really have a goal weight Today . I'm 304 pounds and I laugh about it because many people think 300 pounds is huge and I'm like , oh my God , 300 pounds is skinny .

Jamie Selzler 29:47

It's all relative , man , I mean I look at myself here in the camera and I'm like I am legitimately getting way too skinny and so I am going to lose more . I need to have skin removal surgery . I have a lot of loose skin . You can't see it so much here because my face and neck and all this stuff are okay , but like , especially around my stomach and my thighs , I would have jacked arms if I didn't have all the skin hanging off of them . So I have to have that and so I'll probably lose another I don't know 30 pounds maybe , and without the skin removal .

Jamie Selzler 30:21

But I don't want to be small , like being the biggest guy . You know I'm six over . I have to say six two now used to be six three , but as I've lost weight I'm also shrinking in height and so I'm six two . I've always been the biggest person all the time and it is a weird sort of mental shift to not be the biggest person anymore , cause they're very often that I'm not and and so I don't ever want to be like thin . Yeah , so I don't have like a goal weight Like I want to get to a certain weight . If I'm below 250 , I won't be happy .

Philip Pape 30:56

So it's funny you say too , but you say 250 , cause , like in the strength world , right , guys who are six , two , six , three , like that's their goals to 25 to 50 , you know they , if they're one , 90 , they're small and weak . You know they want to get up there . So it's interesting You're kind of converging on that sweet spot . And that raises the other question like how much do you pay attention to body composition ? Do you know your lean mass index which was my last episode fat-free mass index , like how muscular you are under the fat that you're still trying to lose , Like what's ?

Jamie Selzler 31:20

going on there . Yeah , right now I'm at 27% body fat , which is actually kind of low considering I'm at the weight that I am , which means you're pretty muscular , then yeah .

Philip Pape 31:32

I lift , plus there could be the skin and the meat . The skin , yeah , I mean .

Jamie Selzler 31:34

I lift four days a week and so I've been lifting four days a week now for two years and pretty like serious amount of weightlifting that I'm doing . And then I walk a lot . At this point I walk 12,000 to 15,000 steps every day and so I am pretty strong . Now I'm getting weaker , quote unquote weaker , like I'm still at a major calorie deficit . I've had my metabolism tested . I made a still a huge calorie deficit and so I've kept my muscle . It's actually a small miracle . I still will do a Dexa occasionally or I'll do InBody every six weeks and I'm still adding muscle , even a pound a month at this point . And I'm I cannot believe and I'm still adding muscle even a pound a month at this point , and I cannot believe that I'm still adding muscle at this much of a calorie deficit .

Philip Pape 32:18

If you and I met two years ago , you'd believe it if we had a conversation . And I say that not to be arrogant , but it's a niche of people that I like to reframe with guys who are bigger or ladies or north of 300 . And I'm like you have a huge advantage right now . It's called excess stored body fat that your body will perceive just like eating food , and you don't have to eat the food because you have it already and you have so much of it that the signaling is such that your body is like , yeah , we can give this up in spades , no problem , and therefore you can go into deficit but actually be in a perceived surplus from your muscle machinery . It's working , it's crazy .

Jamie Selzler 32:55

For those who are watching the camera , I'm going to show something here . I'm showing a pound of muscle and a pound of fat . I show these all the time to people online and I talk about how , when your body needs energy , it's going to eat your muscle first , so you have to eat your protein . You have to be using it , so it protects that . Let's say , I need to lose two pounds , it's going to either take one or two pounds of muscle , but no , I use it , so it takes the fat and it blows people's minds when they realize that you can actually recop your body . I just didn't think I would be recopying at this far . It is kind of a deficit .

Philip Pape 33:28

Yeah , I hear you and .

Jamie Selzler 33:29

I've had my with my doctor . I've had my metabolism tested twice over the course of a month just to make sure it's accurate , with the indirect messing up their calorimeter or whatever it's like where you sit and you breathe into this thing for 10 minutes . I encourage people to talk to their doctor about it , to do it . It's very interesting and it gives you what your resting metabolic rate is , and mine is 3,900 calories a day .

Philip Pape 33:50

As my rest it's insane .

Jamie Selzler 33:53

So your TD is far above that . My TD is probably 5,000 if I look at my movement in there , and so you know , and I'm eating 25 to 2,800 a day . So I'm still in a massive deficit and I'm sure it's probably decreased recently .

Philip Pape 34:06

But how does that feel to you right now ? You're still . You're on GOP1 still . Yeah .

Jamie Selzler 34:10

On semaglutide . I'm on terisepatite or trisepatite now .

Philip Pape 34:13

So does it feel like a deficit or does it feel kind of like normal ? I guess I should say almost like a maintenance .

Jamie Selzler 34:19

Yeah , I mean one of the this entire process from day one . I mean that's one thing I talk about , like my mindset developed over time , but from day one I only do things that I can do forever . I never do any sort of eating or movement or anything that I know I won't be able to do forever . The closest thing I ever do to a temporary diet is I will occasionally , for two or three days , do a protein sparing modified fast if I feel like I have some bloat going on or whatever , and I figure I can do one of these every three times a year for a few days . So I only do things that I can do forever and that includes my eating and so my 25 to 2,800 calories a day is what I've done the entire time .

Jamie Selzler 35:04

I have not decreased or increased my calories this entire process because I think I can eat 2,500 a day forever . That's doable for me and I think a lot of people , when they lose weight they get to what they call . People say , what are you gonna do when you get to maintenance ? And honestly , I've been in maintenance from the first day . I don't have a separate maintenance phase . I view maintenance not as maintaining a body weight but maintaining a lifestyle , and I've maintained my lifestyle since the first day .

Philip Pape 35:33

That is a great way to put it . Obviously , everybody's experiences are different . Like my maintenance right now is 2,600 , just like what you're eating . But that's my maintenance right . So for me to lose I have to be eating 1,800 , 1,900 . But also there's the GLP-1s right , which then raises the next question is do you have an off-ramp ? Do you have a long-term goal on that ? What is your goal with the medication ?

Jamie Selzler 35:52

I intend on taking it forever . I think that , especially over the next couple of years , we're going to find , I think , there's a consensus among many medical professionals that obesity is a disease . I think that we'll just see more evidence of that . Genetic testing and what you mentioned . The only thing that's ever treated that for me is a GLP-1 . So I intend on taking a GLP-1 forever . I am planning on losing access at some point , and so by intending , I mean that I will always seek out a doctor that supports me on it . I have a fantastic doctor and I will .

Jamie Selzler 36:27

At some point I could see decreasing the dose because I'm at the max dose . I've been at the max dose for almost two years . It still works great . People say it stops working . I don't know . It still works fine . It works as well for me now as I did at the beginning . So maybe I'll lower the dose or I'll spread it out so I don't do it every week . Maybe I do it every 10 days or whatever . I could see doing something before that and then when I have my skin removal surgery early next year , I'm going to have to stop for a few weeks . Then they require you to stop the GLP before you have surgery . So that'll be a little test case for me to see if the food noise comes roaring back or whatever .

Jamie Selzler 37:06

But although I intend on using a GLP-1 forever , I'm planning to not . We never know what happens . I don't know if at some point my insurance won't cover or I won't have the financial means to pay for it , or it gets taken off the market , because you just never know when it comes . I think these are pretty solid , but you never know with a medication , and so I feel terrible .

Jamie Selzler 37:26

I see people online do this , where they take a GLP-1 , they don't change anything about their lifestyle , they just eat less and hey , they're happy because the scale is moving , even though they're killing their muscle and metabolism in the process . But then it stops because their insurance stops covering it and they can't afford it , and they go into full terror mode because that's the moment they realize they have not changed anything . And so while I intend on taking it , I plan to not . So I've completely changed my lifestyle in every single way , in a way that's manageable for me , that I can do forever . None of it feels temporary . So if I ever do stop , I think I have a fighting chance . I think I would regain . I don't think I would get to 650 again by any means , but I think I'd certainly start to gain the weight again if I stop .

Philip Pape 38:13

Yeah , Honestly , nobody knows right . We don't have the research yet to know wholesale at the population level , a bunch of people getting off these drugs , who regains , who doesn't , and why . And it could come back to genetics and , like you said , if it's been working just as effectively and yet the it stops working , Maybe he had less of a need for it . Let's just put it that way , Right , Genetically or something . Who knows ? I don't know it's , it's fascinating . And then there's microdosing and there's now research on like . Could this be a beneficial thing for any , every human to take Kind of like ? Everybody should take creatine , you know cause , there's no harm and there's all these possible benefits . But you did mention so . Okay , so that's a GOP one side .

Jamie Selzler 38:51

I want to throw this out there , the people that say that it stops working for and I talk to . I mean , I go on , I do live streams on TikTok , I love doing them and I'm answering . I'll sit and I'll answer hundreds of questions in a couple of hours over and over , multiple times a week , and for the people that stops working , they will start saying things like do I have to start exercising now ? And what I am convinced pure anecdote is that what happens is people lose their weight , they're losing their muscle , their metabolism's tanking and eventually , even with GLP , your body gets hungry and they begin to confuse hunger of your body desperately needing to eat and they say it stopped working . The food noise is back .

Philip Pape 39:33

You got it .

Jamie Selzler 39:34

No one who's lifting weights and keeping their muscle is coming out saying these stopped working for them . I . There is a direct correlation between your muscle and how effective these medications are in the long run .

Philip Pape 39:44

I'm sure , there you go . No , that that actually makes perfect sense and me , of all people , I don't know why I'd even consider that , you know , but you , but you answer these questions all the time . That makes complete sense because , like , hyperphagia kicks in right , like the massive loss of muscle mass triggers other appetite signals and they're not all the same signal being addressed by the drug you're taking , necessarily , right , because that's one hormone . Of course , they're getting more and more advanced . The new ones can affect your glucagon . Now it's insane . But you did mention a few times already and maybe it's time to talk about your four rules . But we've been talking about sustainability . You've talked about how you just train . You're the guy who trains , the guy who walks , you just do it . You don't need or have motivation . But when you do have motivation it's just even easier , but you don't need it . So what are the four

The Four Rules for Sustainable Change

Philip Pape 40:26

rules ? Are about sustainability , right ?

Jamie Selzler 40:34

Yeah . So number one that I've and I sort of I got to the end of this a few months back I'm like , what have I been doing this whole time ? And I realized these are the four things that I rely on . So , obviously , making promises . You're keeping promises that you make to yourself as one , you know , not counting on motivation and being consistent and having discipline is number two , and you know we talked at the beginning about habit stacking .

Jamie Selzler 40:49

The number one thing I tell people who are not motivated to move their body and I don't know if I got that maybe I don't want to say I came up with this myself . I probably stole it from someone , maybe you , I don't know but I set a timer and I've done this the whole time . I set a timer on my phone for two minutes and when I have zero motivation to move , I set a timer . I say I'm just going to get up and move for two minutes . That can mean walking or doing the dishes or physical movement , and at the end of the timer , if I'm still feeling like I don't want to be doing this , then I'll sit back down . But if at the end of the two minutes or three or whatever you set it for I'm like yep , I'm okay , I'm up now , so I'm not motivated to move , but I set a timer and I move for two minutes and that's just discipline , right there .

Jamie Selzler 41:38

That's such a critical thing . You know , I joke with people like I am motivated . I mean I've turned my TV on twice , I think , in the last three months . I'm still motivated to sit and , you know , watch TV all the time , like I used to . I'm still motivated to just veg out on the couch . But I should say this I'm not as motivated as I used to be to do that , but I'm not motivated every day to go for a seven-mile walk or a nine-mile walk .

Philip Pape 42:02

No , I hear you . There's always like in the back of your head . There's things that are like that little devil inside telling you to do this thing , but it starts to get quieter and quieter over time . I was thinking how you said , you get up and then for two minutes and if you still want to do it you do , otherwise you don't . I think that's great because I think that gives you you're giving yourself permission to like hey , I did the thing , you know , I took the action and the momentum's not there right now , so what ? On the other hand , it can lead to just massive accumulative results right Day after day after day , of doing that . If I have to go and work on preparing for a podcast episode and I haven't done it yet , and it's dinner time and I'm hungry but my wife's making dinner and I'm like I'm just going to sit at the computer for a minute and think about it and start typing something and sure enough , you're like well , I'm here and you just keep going and half an hour goes by and you're done .

Jamie Selzler 42:52

Yeah , no , I think I mean it's the same thing applies to the gym . Like I'm not always motivated to work out in the gym , even though I love it . I've never had a session where I've lifted , where I didn't walk away feeling great about myself , but the , for me , the hardest part about the gym isn't working out at the gym or getting ready to go to the gym , or it's the sitting in the car parked that moment before I have to get out of my car and go into the gym . That is still a challenge for me . And so when it comes to consistent discipline is like , even if I'm not feeling it that day , even if I do not want to work out that day , I will go into the gym and I say I will be in there for five minutes . And I honestly feel if after five minutes I'm like this is not it today , I will leave .

Jamie Selzler 43:36

I've never that's never happened . I've never actually left the five minutes . But I give myself permission and if at some point I do , I'm not going to feel bad about it . I will feel okay that I left after five minutes and I've given myself that permission and forgiveness ahead of time for it . I haven't needed to do it yet . But because I've done that , it allows me to deal with the most difficult aspect of working out , which is physically getting out of the car into the gym , Because it feels so good to sit in your car and listen to wits and weights and not actually get up and walk into the gym that day .

Philip Pape 44:09

Well , I listen to my podcast while I'm lifting . So not my own podcast , but I listen to podcasts . Of course , I have a home gym , so that's a different situation .

Jamie Selzler 44:18

So that's number two , right ? Well , Phillip , if you're listening right now , keep getting after it . You're killing it , buddy .

Philip Pape 44:22

You're doing a great job . That's what you got to do , yeah , one extra rep right now , one , okay .

Jamie Selzler 44:32

So that's the two rules so far . Right , promises to yourself , not counting on motivation . And then , third is to celebrate every win , or celebrate every success , and this is actually , I mean , they're all equally important , but this one's really critical . And when I say celebrate every winner success , I mean you have to actually speak it and verbalize it that you've had something good happen , and it does not matter how small it is . Beyond that , I encourage people to write it down . I have a notebook . It's right in front of me here . I have a notebook that has probably about a thousand things now , just the lines , and .

Jamie Selzler 45:02

And at the beginning there were very basic stuff , like I walked 50 feet . Or I remember the time where my new building that I had moved to , I walked from my car in the parking ramp to my apartment . It's 500 steps exactly , which is very convenient if I need extra steps at the end of the day , I know exactly how many steps it is . When I first moved here three years ago , I had to . During those 500 steps I had to stop two or three times till I catch my breath , and I very clearly remember the first time I did that walk and I never stopped , from my car to my door , never stopped . It was a huge win for me and I wrote it down in my notebook . My biggest non-scale victory I've had yet this whole time is actually when I was 550 pounds . It was at a much heavier weight was my non-scale victory .

Jamie Selzler 45:49

I went hiking with a friend and I had not been walking a whole lot at this point and I walked up a hill I joke it's the third tallest point in Minnesota , which isn't saying a whole lot because Minnesota is a very flat state , but you know it's about a mile relatively . You know decent incline and most people it takes 20 minutes to walk it . I think I took 45 or 50 to get up there and I got to the top , thought I was on the verge of death but the immense pride that I had that I knew in the I like doing things that no one in history has ever done I like to think of that exists and I thought no one who's 550 pounds has ever climbed up this hill . I'm the biggest human being who's ever been on this hill that gets hiked all the time and it felt sort of good knowing that at least it's unlikely someone bigger than me had ever climbed up that hill , and so my point is this whether it's the small wind like hey , I didn't stop to catch my breath on this walk , or I just climbed up I'm the biggest person that's ever climbed this hill and everything in between , write it down in a notebook .

Jamie Selzler 46:52

And there is something that happens to your brain when you start writing down all of those wins , even if they're tiny , sitting in a booth , whatever . I speak it out loud At this point . My friends , people in my life , are just used to it . I mean , I was at an event a few weeks ago and I sat down . It was like a banquet table . I remember I sat down at the table and there's plenty of room around me and I had to just say , hey , everyone , a few years ago , if I would have sat at this table , I would have been crowded in with everybody and I had to speak it out loud . And people are like , oh , that's awesome , like I don't think they actually care a whole lot .

Philip Pape 47:25

I feel you , it's for you more than anyone .

Jamie Selzler 47:28

When I speak those wins and I write them down , you imprint in your mind that you are a winner and you begin going through life seeking out wins for your book .

Jamie Selzler 47:39

It has a addition and if no one does anything else other , if no one takes anything away from this interview today other than that , I think that's fine .

Jamie Selzler 47:47

Start writing down your wins , especially if you're trying to lose weight , because when you're on a weight loss journey I hate that word but I use it all the time when you're on a weight loss journey , there are many bad moments .

Jamie Selzler 48:00

I kind of talk to people , look at my before and after and I'm like wow , how exciting , whatever . And I'm like sure , but it's mostly really boring . It's it's day after day after day of the same thing and it gets really boring and you have to come to peace with the fact that it's going to take a long time and it's going to be boring . And one of the ways that you come to peace with that is having your book of wins , because if you have weeks where you're on a stall or you're having problems , going back and looking at especially the beginning of that book and seeing , wow , the stuff that I just take for granted . Now was a big win at first . That sort of tells you that you've come a long way and helps you get through those rough moments and just makes you feel good to go back and read them .

Max 48:44

Shout out to Ph Peck . I know Philip for a long time . I know how passionate he is about healthy eating and body strength , and that's why I choose him to be my coach . I was no stranger to dieting and body training , but I always struggled to do it sustainably . Philip helped me prioritize my goals with evidence-based recommendations while not overstressing my body and not feeling like I'm starving . In six months , I lost 45 pounds without drastically changing the foods I enjoy , but now I have a more balanced diet . I weight train consistently but , most importantly , I do it sustainably . If a scientifically sound , healthy diet and a lean , strong body is what you're looking for , philip Pape is your guy .

Philip Pape 49:29

Yeah , because it makes me think of the idea that when we have habits and we have behaviors right , it's a some sort of step change that it takes to get to that , but then it becomes fairly automatic , fairly boring , like you said . You just do it day after day . Eventually you don't think about it and if you're writing that down , you look back and say , oh , that guy was hardly doing anything . You know , look at me now . And yet there's , the hill is always up for the rest of your life , and I see that as a positive . Some people see that as overwhelming , you know , like Sisyphus or something pushing the boulder uphill , but I think it's incredible because it means there's unlimited potential and some people have different personalities when it comes to that . I know this right Coaching people .

Philip Pape 50:05

There are some people that just love to just they're positive about everything , even when I think , oh man , like you had a tough week , but you're still coming here saying you did this , you did this , you did this and I'm just going to work on these other things . Others , you have to pull teeth . You know it's like okay , I know you want to tell me all your problems right now . Tell me a win , like give me a win and they just want to jump into the bad stuff . Give me a win , okay , all right , all right . And sometimes I have to help them with the win . So for somebody who has that personality , let's just say , of a little bit more pessimism type bias , what's a good way to ?

Jamie Selzler 50:38

do that ? Yeah , exactly . And when I tell people write it down , I mean that literally , yeah , literally , pen and paper , not in a notes app . I mean that's better than nothing , of course , but there's something special about writing it down that tells you that you're putting pen to paper because something's important to you and it makes a difference .

Philip Pape 50:55

I need to do that . I'm going to do that because I do everything digitally and you're right , you kind of get it . It's funny I'm reading a Stephen King book fair . My , my daughters actually found it for me because I generally don't get them , because I wear , I watch , I read kindle books , yeah , and they're like , daddy , we found you this . Have you read this yet ? It's like needful things from 1991 . I'm like no , I haven't read that . But it's this huge tome of a physical book and I'm so used to reading kindle and I'm rediscovering some of the joys of physical book , also some of the hassles , but mostly the joys , right , yeah . So yeah , there's something primal and visceral about that .

Jamie Selzler 51:28

There's something special about when you're reading a book , turning the page like what's on the next page .

Philip Pape 51:32

And then even be able to go back and be like okay , three pages ago , back and forth and such .

Jamie Selzler 51:37

We're just in a world of endless streaming and scrolling . But that's why I encourage people to write stuff down because it makes it special and unique from everything else when you write it down .

Philip Pape 51:48

Yeah . So that's celebrating every success . I'm all on board with that . What's rule number four ?

Jamie Selzler 51:52

It's the hardest one which is input goals versus output goals . Let's talk about it , and you know this is one that I certainly in my business career I got pretty good at , but I never really applied this into my personal life or my certainly not my health process . And so , essentially , input goals versus output goals , an output goal or metric is basically it's something you don't have direct control over . So I tell people I I don't have a goal weight . I've never had a goal weight . Whenever I've lost weight in the past and I have a few times in various programs , usually with some form of restrictive eating diet , I always had a a goal weight or a goal specific , and I have not had a goal this time . When I first started , my highest was 650 pounds . I lost the first 50 pounds with no GLP . It took me a year and this is great . I mean , it's the first time I had lost weight in a long time but it was a struggle , to say the least . I was , I was fighting my body constantly and I knew I wouldn't be able to keep it off . So I started with my doctor on a GLP at 600 and he asked me if I had a goal weight and I said no , and I even knew early on I didn't want to have a goal weight because I didn't want to set myself up for failure again . He's like well , what way would you be like happy at what would be be like okay for you ? I remember saying , as a stretch goal , 400 pounds and like if I got to 400 , that'd be pretty amazing because at that point when you're 650 or 600 pounds , at that moment 400 is a , that's a lot . I mean , that's a lot to lose . But , as I've gone , I don't have a goal weight . I cannot and I don't care what anyone says . You cannot control the scale . You are not AI . You cannot get in your scale and program a number . So I don't set goals about the scale . I don't set goals about if people notice I've lost weight or how I look . I don't have goals about clothing size or anything like that , and I don't have dates for anything either . Instead , all my goals are things I directly can control .

Jamie Selzler 53:49

So my goals are things like what am I eating ? How much am I eating ? That includes things like protein . How much sleep am I getting ? Water , movement , my walking , am I in the gym ? Whatever we joked at the beginning , I don't do cardio , I mean I walk a lot . I don't consider it cardio , but I don't like get on a treadmill . I don't get on a stair climber or whatever . If

Input Goals vs. Output Goals

Jamie Selzler 54:10

someone's out there , that does it more power to them . But if you think that an hour on the treadmill beats an hour lifting weights , then you are setting yourself up for some not fun things in life . But my goals are about that stuff because I can actually control that my weight's going to be whatever my weight's going to be actually control that my weight's going to be whatever my weight's going to be . People are going to say whatever they're going to say . My clothes are going to fit , however they're going to fit .

Jamie Selzler 54:29

But if I am setting achievable goals that are sustainable around everything else , I know that I'll have success on the scale I have . I have , so I weigh myself every day . I have for the last three years . I stay the same or gain weight 80% of the time . So eight out of 10 days it's quote unquote unhappy news on the scale that I do not care about . There's only been one day in the last three years where the scale upset me . It was actually two weeks ago . There's only been one day where the scale bothered me and it's just data to me , and I've encouraged people not to put too much emotion in the data . Um bothered me and it's just data to me , and I've encouraged people not to put too much emotion in the data and the reason it bothered me a few weeks ago after all this time was because my I'm dialed in on everything .

Jamie Selzler 55:16

I weigh , measure and track everything . I I'm probably 90 accurate on my calorie intake , the other 10 or if I'm like going out to eat or whatever , and you can only estimate . But I mean I weigh , I like , measure how much pepper I'm using , just so I know what my potassium intake is . I'm hardcore and I wish I didn't have to do that . I need to do that .

Jamie Selzler 55:37

I didn't lose anything the first three months on a GLP-1 . I had to be at a higher dosage , but I also started weighing , measuring , tracking around that same time . Anyway , there was a day a few weeks ago where I gained three pounds and I know my body so well now that I can pretty much predict my weight the next day based on what I eat or drink and my weight went up and I could not figure it out . I'm like this makes no sense to me . And then I realized I got some new little protein snack , like protein ramen noodles , whatever that I tried out and it had like a ton of sodium and I forgot that I I mean , I tracked it , but I forgot the next day I'd eaten it and so , of course , the weight drop . But anyway , the point is this if you set goals for things you can control , the outputs will take care of themselves . And that doesn't apply just when it comes to weight loss , that applies to everything in your life .

Philip Pape 56:30

We are 100% aligned on that . I think you know that that's literally what I talk about all the time in the show is tracking , measuring , micro goals process , the whole stoic philosophy of there's so much noise in the world that you can't do anything about , so why even worry about it and control what you can ? It world that you can't do anything about , so why even worry about it and control what you can ? It's interesting you mentioned how you need to do the tracking , and I think it's a good way to look at it , because people always ask like do I have to track my food , or how long do I have to do it ? So first of all , step one , just do it and see what comes of it before you start to judge whether you're going to like it or not , Cause I think a lot of people have misaligned histories when it comes to tracking and it depends on the method and the friction level .

Philip Pape 57:07

But then secondly is you can vary the precision level of this stuff and you are trying to get a goal to happen as efficiently and I'll say quickly , but not quickly as in you're like desperate to lose weight . It's more of you want to be efficient about it and make it meaningful and have momentum behind it .

Jamie Selzler 57:23

If I'm going to do this stuff , I'm going to make it count . I mean , if time'm going to do this stuff , I'm going to make it count .

Philip Pape 57:27

I mean , if time's going to pass , I might as well do my best during that time . Just like you know , I always use the budget analogy . It's like if you're going to save for that big Europe vacation that's going to cost 20 grand , you're going to have to find that money somewhere and sock it away and track it and like know you have it before you have to use a credit card . So where GLP-1 is a tool , tracking is a tool , the scale is a tool and it's all just data , right ? It's funny you mentioned the weight going up and down , because that's one of the biggest hangups for so many people and the dirty little secret for people I'll say evidence-based coaches who are trying to help people with sustainability is you're almost never going to hit the goal weight if you set a goal weight . That's the problem . In other words , coaches that like come up with an exact weight and then you hit it in the exact amount of time .

Philip Pape 58:11

I'd have to look at how that happened . But there's something extreme that happened in there . There's some some restrictive thing that happened is , at the end of the day , I would say , half my clients , they might have , they might have a goal . We'll say , okay , let's , let's put that in there . But let me tell you there's other things that are more important and hopefully , within two or three weeks , they come back to me saying , yeah , you know what ? That really isn't as important .

Philip Pape 58:30

I'm feeling strong , you know , I'm lifting more weights , I have more energy , I'm sleeping better . Those kinds of things are , like deeply meaningful . So , from your perspective , doing all of these practices which we didn't even get to like what does your lifting look like ? What does your walking look like ? That's fine . What are some of the practices that people can take away other than the obvious , in other words , other than okay , everybody knows they need to lift weights on this show and they need to walk and maybe get some good sleep . Is there anything that sticks out as a surprise or big secret that Jamie has that he wants to share ?

Jamie Selzler 59:01

You know I touched on it earlier , but about this kind of being boring sometimes , I think the hardest thing for me to accept , especially early on , was that and it's actually goes to what you were just talking about with goals it true change in your life sustainable , lasting change will take you years , even if you're starting at a much lower weight than I was . Whatever changes that you're making , it's going to take years to get them to the point when they become second nature . And early on , even though I mean I didn't lose anything right away Then I started losing relatively quickly . Once I , once I started you know some of these steps I realized , wow , this is going to be a five-year process for me . This is going to be a five-year process to get to whatever the end looks like , that I'll have to sustain at that point , and for me that includes losing weight , like in my case .

Jamie Selzler 59:54

I didn't start weightlifting until I got to 550 pounds . I had to lose 100 pounds to physically be able to get into a gym . Now I did stuff from home using body weight and resistance bands . I didn't start walking a lot until I got to 475 pounds before I started really ramping up the walking , and so I had to accept this is going to take a long time . Losing weight was going to take years . I knew then I was going to probably have to have skin removal , which was going to take a couple of years of surgery and recovery . And once you accept that the changes you're making are not to get to a certain number by a certain date , there's a freedom in that , there's a freedom in you're taking the pressure off yourself . And so if I were to have any little tip or trick that is not obvious to the start , at the start for folks , it's that the fact that it takes a little bit of time or , in some cases , a long time , is actually a benefit more than anything .

Jamie Selzler 1:00:50

And I used to think , I really used to think that all the stuff that we do , the lifting and the walking and the eating and the mindset and the lifestyle and everything we've talked about today I used to think that that stuff at the beginning I thought that stuff was like the chore , like you have to do all of that to get to whatever the end goal is , where you're going to be healthier and happier , and I really have come to believe that all of that stuff like you know , the journey is a destination kind of thing .

Jamie Selzler 1:01:22

It really is . The fact that I can just get up right now and walk to my car and go to a park and walk and go to the grocery store and just go hours without sitting down , Like that's better than any number on the scale , that's better than any perceived result of this . So why would you put your happiness on hold ? Why would you say my happiness is determined by an outcome instead ? Except that happiness can come from the things that your body's allowing you to do now that it didn't allow you to do a week ago or a month ago or a year ago which is like 99.9% of your time on this planet .

Philip Pape 1:02:03

Yeah Right , if you think of it that way , an outcome is fleeting .

Jamie Selzler 1:02:08

Yeah , yeah , that's so true to be happy , and and that doesn't mean that you delay your happiness your happiness can come from finding joy in the things you're doing right now . Yeah , and I find joy in everything . I find joy in talking to you right now . I find I find joy in all aspects of my life because I feel like I cheated death . I mean , I really I cheated death

Finding Joy in the Journey

Jamie Selzler 1:02:30

. And for those of you out there listening , like you know , our time comes for all of us and it's so much better to live a healthier , healthier life now than to push it off until later , cause you don't know when later is ever going to come .

Philip Pape 1:02:43

A hundred percent , a hundred percent , and so we could end on that very poignant note . But I want to end on a kind of a silly question here . I don't know if it's silly or not . Would you ever bulk in the future ? Do you ever foresee a time when you go after like strength numbers and bulking and building muscle by gaining weight ?

Jamie Selzler 1:03:00

I've thought about that actually more recently , more in the last couple of months than because I thought . I thought if I have continued , if I've kept my muscle and gained muscle . I know people say when you're really big , you have a lot of muscle . I think that's probably somewhat true . Certainly my triceps are strong as hell because of pushing myself up all the time , but and probably my calves and legs . But I thought about that like if I have built muscle on a huge calorie deficit , what will it be like at a point when I'm not in a calorie deficit and how am I going to be just a total monster at that point ? And I'm not on ?

Jamie Selzler 1:03:34

My testosterone number levels are fine , but at some point you know , I'm almost 50 at some point I will likely have to do testosterone replacement therapy if my numbers ever go down , and of course that will have an effect in the gym as well . Yeah , I think the short answer is yeah , I could absolutely see doing some balking at some point , which is kind of wild to even think about . But it's a healthy way to look at it , because some people lose weight and are terrified about regain . I mean , if I got to 225 or 200 , then you know , start packing in the protein , yeah , for sure . And the carbs , yeah , yeah , you mentioned . Yeah , you know start packing in the protein .

Philip Pape 1:04:07

It's both , yeah for sure , and the carbs , yeah , yeah , you mentioned , yeah , you mentioned lifting . I wonder . I have an episode coming out about Ed Cohn , you know , probably the greatest power lifter of all time he had , I think to this date . He has the biggest strength to weight ratio . Um , he totaled what was it ? 2,400 pounds at at two .

Jamie Selzler 1:04:30

18 or something like insane strength . So I wonder you know what ?

Philip Pape 1:04:31

your numbers would look like , even though , even though you're in your fifties , I know we're not talking about a , you know , 20 year old , almost , almost almost . And you mentioned TRT too . That's interesting not to go down a whole tangent , but has that ? Have you been tracking ? That has actually gone up by any chance , cause you've lost fat .

Jamie Selzler 1:04:40

Yeah , I don't remember the number off the top of my head , but I do it every I get . I get all my blood work done every six months . Maybe a little overkill , but I figured , because I was at such a bad weight for so long , that just better safe than sorry . So I'm willing to pay a little extra for the testing . And yeah , so the the test Dostra numbers have gone up a little bit . I mean all my health markers have improved . I mean everything has gotten better . I mean everything has gotten better . So you mentioned carbs . I do eat carbs too , but people are like oh wow , you've lost a lot of weight , you must not eat carbs . I'm like , tell that to like the two cups of rice I eat every day .

Philip Pape 1:05:11

Yeah , I'm sure .

Jamie Selzler 1:05:11

Or people are like oh , I just fast or I don't eat carbs . I'm like , if I were to fast or not eat carbs , how on earth could I lift four days a week or walk seven to nine miles a day without carbs ? Exactly , exactly , if you're out there and you're doing a carb free life . That's not for me .

Philip Pape 1:05:29

It's not no , not for me and most listeners of the show . And if if they've heard me enough and they don't want to eat carbs , they probably stopped following . So all right , so with that as we wrap up is to get out that we didn't talk about .

Jamie Selzler 1:05:45

I just want to say thank you for all . I've learned a ton from you , philip , and I really appreciate the work that you do . If you ever wonder out there , philip , if you are having an impact or not , I know that you probably feel you have a community . People reach out , but you've made a big difference for me and the things I've learned . I'm sure , as I've talked about my mindset change and my rules , you probably hear shades of what you've talked about in there . I've absorbed a lot of that stuff through osmosis . I just want to say thank you for that and if you're out there and want to learn more , give me a follow . I don't do this . I'm not a coach , I'm not an influencer , so to speak . I don't make any money off this . I'm really just trying to be an example for others of one , do not let yourself get so out of shape that it becomes almost impossible to fix . And two , if you're anywhere close , you can turn it around . It's not too late . So give me a follow if you want to learn more .

Philip Pape 1:06:31

Awesome , jamie . Thank you so much . I appreciate the kind words . By the way , it means a lot when anybody says , hey , this has changed my life in some way and you're doing the same , and we're just trying to exponentially grow that impact with everyone we talk through and to and with . So thank you so much , jamie , for reaching out initially and then coming on the show and sharing all this wisdom . I loved it . Thank you .

Jamie Selzler 1:06:50

Thank you , thanks for having me , I appreciate it .