Breaking Aging Myths After 40

Philip Pape 0:01

If you're in your 30s , 40s or beyond and think your best physical days are behind you , think again . My guest , brian , is a 46-year-old medical professional and former college athlete who was stuck in the low-carb trap watching his performance decline while everyone told him this was just getting older . After six months of us working together , he's not only transformed his physique but discovered that things like adding back the carbs everyone told him to avoid were keys to feeling and performing better than he had in years . You'll learn why the eat less , move more mentality that works in your 20s fails you after 40 , how to use your analytical mind to cut through fitness industry nonsense , and why getting a coach for something you're passionate about isn't weakness , it's wisdom . Plus , brian gets raw about the struggles men don't usually discuss Scale obsession , restrictive eating habits , and how physical transformation became part of his improved mental health .

Philip Pape 0:59

Welcome to Wits and Weights , the show that helps you build a strong , healthy physique using evidence , engineering and efficiency . I'm your host , philip Pape , and today I'm very excited to bring you what is an incredible transformation story that I think is going to challenge a lot of what you've been told about fitness after 30 . Now my guest is Brian Kopka . He's a 46-year-old medical professional and former college athlete who found himself trapped in that same cycle that many people and many men face in their 40s and beyond Declining performance , restrictive eating , the false belief that physical decline is inevitable with age . And after working together for six months , brian has really transformed not just his physique but his entire relationship with food and fitness .

Philip Pape 1:42

What makes Brian's experience very compelling is he has an analytical approach very much like mine . We love to get into the weeds and we also like to step to the big picture and discuss those struggles that many people , many men , won't admit to having , and his discovery that a lot of what he thought he knew about nutrition especially carbs potentially was holding him back , and he recognized that and he sought out the information so that he could improve . Today you're going to learn why your assumptions about nutrition and training might be sabotaging your goals right now , how to use data to better guide your fitness decisions , and why investing in coaching for something you're passionate about and trying to improve is one of the smartest moves you can make . Brian , thanks so much for doing this man , thanks for being a client and thanks for coming on the show .

Brian Kopka 2:27

Philip , it's great to be here and it's been an incredible experience with you so far and I really learned a lot from you , so it's really great to be here , thank you .

Philip Pape 2:35

Yeah , man , people are always asking for these case studies . They're like I want to hear from real people . You talk a lot , philip , but let's hear from the people that you've been helping and it's been fun working with you because your background is very unique . You've been an athlete , you've been a fitness enthusiast your whole life . You know a lot about this stuff . When we started , I was very impressed . I could tell you're really smart and been following podcasts and all that , and yet you still decided to hire a coach . So let's start there . What made you realize that what got you to where you were wasn't all that you needed to get where you wanted to go ?

Brian Kopka 3:07

So you know , I feel like I made really good progress and I got to the point to where I started to question things and wonder , like you know , okay , so I got to where I am , does that mean that this is what I'm going to do forever ? I started to wonder , maybe there is a better approach . And I knew , based on my biofeedback , that , you know , while my results I was happy with , I wasn't very happy with how I was feeling and my energy level . And you know , a big part of my life is challenging things and when I started to work with you , you know I remember sometimes I would make comments and sometimes you would stop me there and you say well , wait a second , where does that come from ? You know , have you tried this ? And you know being able to challenge , you know this societal idea that you know carbs make you fat and this internal fear of consuming carbs . This was a big part of , I think , some of the changes you know that we made together .

Philip Pape 3:59

So you're saying that we have a lot of assumptions , not just assumptions . There's something they call the illusion of obviousness , I think it's called , where we just hold something that's true for years and that's all we hear , and then all of a sudden something challenges it , would you say , it falls in that bucket of , or it's more of you know ? This is not quite right , and Philip seems to be one of the guys that may have an answer , so let me talk to him . Which is it ?

Brian Kopka 4:21

I think it's a little bit both and . And I think when you , you know , when you , when you realize that you know , maybe things could be more optimal , and then you seek

The Analytical Approach to Fitness

Brian Kopka 4:30

out somebody who's an expert in it , you know , I think part of it is being vulnerable and listening to new information , and then part of it is have to be willing to look at yourself and say you know what I don't know , that you know , while things are good , are they optimized ? Could they be better ? Could I feel better ? Could I get better results ? And those are some of the questions I was asking myself . And that's a big part of my life is looking at different areas of my life , wondering if it could get better and then asking myself how am I going to do this ?

Philip Pape 4:56

Yeah , and so rewind the clock . Try to understand how you got there right , because we all have different backgrounds . I was not from an athletic background . You were , you were . You have an athletic background , a different identity that's yours . That shaped your approach to fitness and how you saw all of this . So , maybe just 30,000 foot level . How did that identity evolve through your life and shape what you thought you knew up to the point we started working together ?

Brian Kopka 5:18

Yeah .

Brian Kopka 5:18

So , you know , what I discovered early on in life is that , you know , basically through sports is there's a threshold that I was able to push myself and some of it was being self-driven and some of it was , you know , from coaching and I found it to be very rewarding and fun to be able to experience that process of achieving , you know , physical accomplishments , whether that's on the field or the weight room , and that's , you know , one of the things that I didn't want to stop once I stopped sports .

Brian Kopka 5:49

So what I did is I transitioned that desire to continue to , you know , achieve things physically into my fitness , into my 20s , my 30s and now my late 40s , and that's kind of how I got here , you know , and I think one of the things that I've taken from this experience is look as a college athlete , or you know , and I think one of the things that I've taken from this experience is look as a college athlete or , you know , even a professional athlete .

Brian Kopka 6:09

One of the things you do in the weight room is you track everything Like there's no walking in and saying you know , I think I'll do a little this , a little of that . I think I did this last time . I'm not feeling that good today and one thing you got me back to , which I think has transformed my fitness , is tracking everything and getting back to progressive overload and whether that's , you know , two and a half more pounds , one more rep with better form , like that's the proper way to train , and getting away from that , I think , was something that I regret , because you spend a lot of time in the weight room . You might as well make it as profitable you know as possible . So you know , and that , for getting back to tracking , help bring back that satisfaction of those , you know , those physical accomplishments that I felt earlier on in life .

Philip Pape 6:57

Yeah , because you can see what's happening , and this is part of the surprise , even for me when we started working together . I want the listener to pay really close attention , right ? So when I met Brian , it was already really shredded . Okay , Like if you just saw him , you'd say , okay , 8% body fat , for sure , plenty of muscle mass .

Philip Pape 7:14

Like , obviously he's doing something quote , unquote , right and yet Brian's telling you here it wasn't necessarily optimal or efficient , or maybe the way that he got there could have been done a different way , or it's even not as much as he wants . There's all these things going through your head . Also , we're going to talk about nutrition in a bit . But there's a lot of things that he was doing unoptimally , non-optimally when it came to nutrition as well , that we've since worked on together and made things , I'll say , a lot easier for him to feel like , hey , I can sustain and grow this . But it's really important to understand , like you joke , cause you hear me talk about you on a podcast and you know it's you , but I don't necessarily say it to you all the time and I'm like well , I have this client who you know , who's really shredded , and people are like well , I want that , but you know the way he got to , the way you got to it . Brian wasn want to be on the inside . You know , in however you get there .

Brian Kopka 8:08

Yeah .

Brian Kopka 8:08

So you know . Well , let me give you a specific example . And you know , when I started working with Philip , you know my my pre-workout was some black coffee with some MCT oil . And Philip made the joke . He's like , well , what

Athletic Background and Identity Evolution

Brian Kopka 8:20

is this like a holdover from ? You know the bulletproof days ? Is this like a holdover from you know the bulletproof days ? And I said yeah . And then I thought to myself I'm like , well , what is the evidence that is supporting this and could there be something better ?

Brian Kopka 8:32

So Philip challenged me . He said I want you to have a half of a banana . I had a half of banana and my eyes lit up during the workout . And so you know what that led to is having a full banana . And so you know what that led to is having a full banana . What that led to is having a big bowl of rice , puff cereal and some fruit and 250 calories and usually 45 carbs before a workout . And I'll never go back to fasted workouts . And what I realized is I was continuing to do something , without questioning it , and when new information came , I mean it's something that I brought in and changed my workouts . It absolutely changed my work . I don't see myself doing fasted workouts unless I was on a desert island for some reason . But so that's an example of , you know , one of the things that's really changed for me .

Philip Pape 9:18

Yeah , you know , I laugh because you got used to asking me questions over our chat and usually if you said how much should I , whatever , or ask for a specific number , what was my answer usually ?

Brian Kopka 9:29

Yeah .

Philip Pape 9:30

What was my answer usually when you asked me like how many grams of carbs should I eat , or how big of a banana , or whatever ?

Brian Kopka 9:35

And I love this answer . It's self-experimentation , try it out , start with something , and you know what I love about this and I I think in in this field , you know of fitness and nutrition . Sometimes it could be a little bit and I say that joking a little bit dogmatically like you gotta have this , but what works for you , brian and that's one of the things that I learned from you , phillip , that I'm going to continue to bring into my fitness and my workouts is I'm going to tinker things , and what works for me might be different from you or different from somebody else . So your answer was usually like try it and assess . You know which is good science and uh , and so you know I've done quite a bit of that and we've done quite a bit of that , so I've enjoyed that process as well .

Philip Pape 10:21

Yeah , yeah , and I will say , like every client's different as well at the way I communicate to client , right ? Because another client , let's say , I have a female client who's really uncertain and maybe not as confident about things and she's never been through before I might literally say , hey , eat this many grams and do that , and then not even tell her she's experimenting , and then a week later I'll be like how did that feel , right ? So it's the same process just through different ways . So another one of those is training , which this was even a bigger surprise for me with you , I think , was again , if somebody just saw you visually they'd be like , okay , this guy knows how to work out , he knows how to build weights and we know that at least beginners can do anything in the gym and they're going to build muscle .

Philip Pape 10:59

And then intermediates can do some things and others are going to be less efficient and the more advanced you get , the harder it becomes . But if you're like you , a guy who likes to go to the gym and is consistent and committed to it , you could still have a pretty good result , even when it's not optimal , which is , I guess , heartening to a lot of people . It's more about the consistency than necessarily the approach , but you wanted both . So when we said hey , when I said I just want you to log your workouts , and this was like , did you say this is something you got back to , that you used to do , or was this kind of new in the way we were doing ?

Brian Kopka 11:29

it . No , it's a . It's a great question and I , for anybody listening , I think logging workouts is absolutely transforming , and so this is something that we did in college . As an athlete I mean , look , college sports , you don't just walk in the weight room . You know you're given a program you're given , you know how many reps , you know what to do and then where they want you to be and you've got to . You know you want to show progress and you just got away from it .

Brian Kopka 11:53

As you know , I say this in quotes , like as a civilian , you know , and so this is something I got back to and you know what I took from it is that you know this changes workouts , this changes results , this changes accountability and you know what it's enjoyable . You know depending on . You know which app you're using to see that little . You know PR , you know sticker come up or you know to see how many you got at the end of the workout . It's showing you a , an indicator that what you're doing is helping you progress , and that could be your biometrics with your sleep , it could be your nutrition , it could be . You know what you're doing in the weight room , but it's actually data that's showing you that you're getting better , so I I love that I will probably . I'm always careful about using the words always , but I will probably always be tracking my workouts in some fashion .

Philip Pape 12:41

Yeah , I agree , I love tracking and the fact that you said it can be fun because of the result you get , but even the process . Like you , and I use Boost Camp , which I tell people about all the time and almost every workout . Right now I'm in a six week bodybuilding cycle , so I'm always when I start a new six week cycle , I start with some fresh lifts and I'm always pushing PRs too , and you're right , the little sticker comes up it's orange , it's like Zoom PR and you're like man that feels good that gamification . So if you're listening , you're like well , I'm not very data-driven , I'm not very analytical . It can still be a fun way to learn about yourself . What are your thoughts on that , brian ? We're going to get into your analytical mindset , which is very much aligned with me . What if somebody's just not like that ? What would you say to them ?

Brian Kopka 13:28

You know , what I'd say is try it . If you hate it , guess what ? You could erase the app . You may , and you know , one of the many things I learned in this process is to be open to the things you haven't experienced yet . And you may be . When I say you , it's the person that's trying tracking . You may enjoy it , you might . Maybe you'll be having a bad day and you know you'll hit . You know , two PRs in the gym and it'll . It'll boost your confidence and you know , you'll feel better about yourself .

Brian Kopka 13:48

I'd also challenge somebody and to me this is very connected to other things in my life when , when you start seeing physical accomplishments in games , I intrinsically ask myself where else in my life can I put together a plan , track something and do that as well ? And tracking is more of a process that I reinforce in the gym , that I'm looking to bring

Mental Health and Physical Transformation

Brian Kopka 14:15

in other parts of my life , to better other parts of my life , because I think this is a foundational part of making lifestyle and life changes . So , even working in corporate America , like nobody puts together a plan and doesn't track it , or they put it on a cocktail napkin , like you put together a plan and you come up with you know smart and measurable and actionable things to track it over time so you know whether it's working . And so what I challenge somebody in the gym is just try it for a day or a week , see what you think .

Philip Pape 14:45

Yeah , yeah , and there's different levels that you can do it at , cause , I agree , like in the corporate world , it always frustrates me when people aren't tracking . Or if they are tracking , I'm like are you tracking in a way that is objective , or is it kind of a thumb suck , you know guess , because that also is not going to be very helpful .

Brian Kopka 15:12

So because you're in the medical field , right , you're trained to kind of look at data and evidence . I suspect I don't know we haven't talked too much about the details of your career , but how has that influenced how you to fitness ? Very much so , and this is one of the reasons why you know I wanted to work with you specifically . I listen to so much of your content . So look , in the medical field , if you're talking to a medical professional and you say something as definitive as a claim like this is this you know most astute medical professionals want to understand . Well , could you tell me you know what it is you read or heard that makes you feel that way ? You know what's the data behind that , what ? What's the key value ? What's the statistical significance ? How many people are we talking about ?

Brian Kopka 15:51

And I think , when bringing it to the fitness field is when we see some information , we hear some bro science , we see something on a magazine , our neighbor tells us something . You know , I kind of take that same approach sometimes and I wonder so what does the data say ? And so so to me it's kind of a combination . In fitness it's like what does the data say ? But also there's some self-experimentation , and so what I've learned in this process is to kind of combine them both . But I do weigh heavily on the , the analytical mindset of evaluating things based on data . And you and I have had a lot of these conversations , you know , like I mean , I know that when we started , you know , I told you I said , philip , I want to learn 10 new things from you a week . And you're like , oh my God , this guy's crazy .

Philip Pape 16:36

But you know , did I say that , I said yeah , let's do it .

Brian Kopka 17:00

But you know , but , even one of them .

Philip Pape 17:00

You know we talked about the role of collagen . You know we talked about the role of meal timing . You know , and , and so you know , and then you know . One of the things that I really get out of this is you say , hey , look , this is what the data shows . So to me there's a big crossover between , you know , my , my work life and my fitness life . That makes sense , yeah , it does , and my brain goes a million miles an hour here Thinking of tangents that are relevant .

Philip Pape 17:08

I thought of two that you might be interested as a listener of the podcast as well , and anyone listening . The first is Alan Lazarus . He's one of the two guys at Next Level University Shout out to them because they're behind the podcast team that edits the podcast Kevin Palmieri as well , who's been on the show a couple of times . Alan Alan is a very much numbers driven analytical business guy to almost to a I don't want to say to a fault , but like to an extreme where he's he's a utilitarian right Like if it doesn't have the maximum utility , it's not worth it . So he goes all out . He's going to be on the show , it's gonna be a lot of fun , but I think about that because you know there .

Philip Pape 17:39

There we talk about the hierarchy of evidence . The evidence about yourself is the best evidence , because that's the one now that checks you on whatever the science says . And then the other guy is coming back , dr Eric Helms . We all love Dr Eric Helms . He's going to come on to talk about epistemology , which is the philosophy of knowledge . How do we know that ? We know something and I know you're going to eat that up , brian , because that's really important .

Philip Pape 18:04

I hope everybody listens to that podcast we're going to get into in the fitness world how do we make sense of all of that and know that what we're saying is true , which is relevant to what you just said ? So , yeah , that's good . So how about this then ? What's another truth that everybody accepts ? You get old and stuff declines , and aging is the cause of all our problems , cause of our metabolic decline . We lose muscle mass . You're never really going to be bent over and frail , get to a nursing home and then die with a short health span . That's like the dire outlook of a lot of millions of people in the world . What are your thoughts on that truth ?

Philip Pape 18:43

And I got to tell you that is one .

Brian Kopka 18:45

Well , first of all , when you say truth , we both have to laugh . It's a joke . Yeah , of course it's fantastic . That is one of my main drivers and passions is that , you know , guys , our age late 40s , you know 50s , you know 30s this idea that you get to this age and you have to have a dad bod , you can't be in shape , you can't look like you did in your twenties , these are all things that just , you know , people say . So I would question that .

Brian Kopka 19:09

Well , you know , why do we accept that ? You know , why do we think that that's bad ? You know , why do I see so many guys our age that are not like that ? Why do we see guys like like Mark Sisson and even like I , like I look at Joseph Pilates , like this guy was an incredible Jack Lane ? There's so many guys .

Brian Kopka 19:27

You can go on and on . You look around the gym . This is not . This is not . You know , have to be , you know destiny . So I asked myself you know , why can't I do that ? You know what approaches , techniques and lifestyle am I going to do ?

Challenging Low-Carb Assumptions

Brian Kopka 19:40

That will support that .

Brian Kopka 19:41

And you know , and I and I shared this , you know , and I have it kind of on the wall when I walk in my house . It's , you know , it's it . Basically , it says right , fucking at it . And and the the ? The story behind it is anything in life that that's hard , that's challenging , that you're scared of go right into it , not away from it . And so , when it comes to fitness , I think that this idea that we inevitably have to age , not look good , not feel good this is just things that people say , and I think if we go right at it and dive into it and invest in it and make it part of our life and surround ourselves with people and circumstances and coaches that support that , that we can look and feel the way that we want to , even into our fifties . So that's something I'm real passionate about .

Philip Pape 20:29

Yeah , and not that we judge people by looks , but if anybody's watching YouTube and seeing you here , I know they're not thinking you're 46 , you know I don't even see gray hairs , but besides that , you know , and we've had a lot of guests , like you said , surrounding yourself with people . You know , I just talked to Zora Benamu . I think she's in her fifties . I've talked to a bodybuilder who's in his 80s . Every time I see one of these people I'm surprised that they're 20 years older than I thought they were . It's because they're living this fit , healthy lifestyle . There's something to be said there , because physical expression is an expression of what's inside and our overall health . But guys might be thinking okay , that's fine , brian , but where do you find the time ? How about when I'm dealing with personal situations ? What about if I've got kids or I'm going through divorce or this or that ? I have the terrible boss ? You've had some difficult personal transitions . What are your thoughts on the connection between physical and mental health and your personal life to make it all work ?

Brian Kopka 21:23

That's a great question and I think I'll tackle the first part , about physical and mental health , and then what my advice would be . First of all , I think these things are , are , are very much connected , and I think one of the things in my life that helped rededicate me to fitness is I went through a really , you know , really difficult breakup in my life . I wasn't showing up in life as as the person that I wanted to be . You know , I wasn't the partner I wanted to be . I wasn't , you know , I just just wasn't the person I wanted to be . And I'm very open about it because I think it's important . You know , I I got into therapy , which I think is , is , is life changing , because I don't think that our mental health and our physical health are separate , and I rededicated myself , you know , to my physical health and I think these things are , are , are , are very , you know , you know , synergistic . I don't think that you know one of these things can . I think they compliment themselves very well .

Brian Kopka 22:20

And then you know the second part of the question . Look , it's hard and I get it . You know , in their circumstances , in life time , family stress , doubt , frustration , the slowness sometimes of gains or loss these things are hard and what I would encourage somebody to do is , you know , to find ways to incorporate in your life and for some people that's maybe waking up a little bit earlier . Some people it's doing air squats in between conference calls . Some people it's walking during conference calls . Some people it's , you know , doing meal prep half the time . You know , maybe you know working out , you know , you know , during , during lunch , whatever it is .

Brian Kopka 22:57

But ultimately I think for most people that do this , it's not something they have to do . They learn that once they start to do it , they feel so damn good that they don't want to not do it . It's not I don't . I have to go to the gym . It's you know what I'm looking forward to doing this workout because I want to see where my body is . It's not I have to eat this food . It's you know what this food makes me feel so good and nourished . I can't wait for that meal . So I would try to find ways to make it a feel-good thing instead of a have to thing , and for everybody that's different . I don't know if that answers your question .

Philip Pape 23:33

Man , this is great . You should do your own fitness podcast , like a mindset podcast , because the way you express things is spot on , because you're getting at the essence of sustainability and also not making the excuse but not that you have to make an excuse because you're not . It's not a hard thing to do , it's not a thing you have to do . It's a thing you want to do because that's who you are and ultimately , that you become that person . Right ? It's also what I'm hearing from you .

Philip Pape 23:54

When I go on a show and someone asks me hey , you know people who say they don't like to work out my first thought is , wow , is that possible ? Right , Like ? It's so far from my brain now , even though I know , working with clients every day that there's that mentality of this is hard , it's uncomfortable , it's new , it's different , and the way I've done it before in the past has maybe been some level of miserable , whether it's I've been doing cardio or lifting weights and didn't like it . There's a way to like it and get the result and then like it even more . Go ahead , say something .

Brian Kopka 24:23

No , I totally agree , and I think there's a lot of internal dialogue here that it's really important . It's not I have to do it , but I get to do it . You know , back in the day when I was doing P90X and eating like crap , I felt like I had to do it . But now you know I know how to eat and I enjoy weight training . So you know it's something I get to do , even when I think about diet . Philip , I don't even like to me if somebody says oh well , what kind of diet are you ? Wait a second , this is not a diet , this is a lifestyle . I don't feel deprived , I eat the foods that I really like and , for me , I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything at all .

Philip Pape 25:00

Yeah , if anything , I've been forcing you to eat more of things , right ? No , but let's talk about that , because you were doing a low-carb approach before , so there were aspects of that that we've changed . So let's go . Let's go down that path . What were you doing ? What did you think was helping you ? And then what changed ? You already mentioned the pre-workout ,

Tracking Progress and Embracing Carbs

Philip Pape 25:20

but there's a lot more behind it .

Brian Kopka 25:21

Yeah , so what I was doing which was , I would say , effective in building a physique and getting to a place where I wanted to do , wanted to be , but not where I wanted to feel was , you know , limiting carbs , having super high protein I mean , I was sometimes maybe double my body weight in protein , depending upon the day , even though I wasn't even tracking that much . You know , that's what I was doing . And then what we started to do is have a more balanced approach . I learned how to , you know , really strategize consumption of carbs around workouts and the different types of carbs used at different times . You know , based on how , you know , quickly , they would , you know , give me energy and what I found is that , overall , I felt better , my performance was better , and you know . So that's kind of the , the , the transition . You know . That I made . You know , and also , I'd add , and you know , and I think this was really important I'm thinking back to your previous question about you know somebody who's making this transition .

Brian Kopka 26:21

But you know , for me , learning how to cook and I've always I've been , I've been a food network junkie for 30 years Like I've always loved food , I love good food , but learning how to cook to me is paramount with this , and if it's not you , then it's somebody in your house . But having that skillset and understanding macros to me is important , and the deal I made with myself is if anybody asked me , how did you become a good cook ? I would say I've ruined thousands of meals , thousands . And the deal I make with myself and I to this day is I'm going to cook and if I ruin it , I'll go out to eat , no problem . And what I've learned is that I can find you know some of the most like fueling foods and I can season them and prepare them in a way to where I don't feel deprived . This is not a diet , so to me that's been a huge part of my physique . That makes sense .

Philip Pape 27:16

It does it's . It's like it reminds me of a conversation I had with Dr Mickey Willidon I think our episode comes out right before this one talking about how this is all about skills . It's really it is about behavior change . It is about knowledge but ultimately it's skills because I mean , that's where the behavior sticks right Is through the skill and , like you said , the skill of cooking food , the skilled meal , skilled meal prep , even the skill of , like , balancing your macros , like they're all just little skills that add up and they take the knowledge , they take the application and experimentation and then see what works for you . And we're going to .

Philip Pape 27:46

I want to get a little more into the cooking side of things because I know that's an area of expertise and maybe some entrepreneurship areas that you're looking at as well .

Philip Pape 27:53

But let's set back to the carbs and the macros and things . So this is a source of a lot of our conversation over the months of your metabolism and your expenditure , how many , how much protein you should eat , how much , and these are important things . So the listener we I know they want to get into some of these details . Because you said you ate a lot of protein . I mean you ate a lot . You were up in like 300 grams or something right , of protein and very , very low carb and we were trying to shift that and it was like there was a little bit . I can sense a resistance from you of wanting to shift it , which makes sense that we all have our like the ceiling where we are now and like there's a step too far for some people and we had to make it manageable . So maybe tell us about that process of inching up the calories , inching down the protein and up the carbs , like kind of what that process was like for you .

Brian Kopka 28:38

Yeah , and I think that process very important . I don't know that I would have gotten there without a coach . In fact , I wouldn't have gotten there without a coach because I would have done it a long time ago . So what that process was like is , anytime you do something in life that's new and that has a lot of , you know , fear mongering around it , like carbs make you fat , it could be a little bit scary , and so I think one of the things that we did really well together is , you know , we started with a banana and next thing , you know , I'm at the store and I'm looking at oatmeal . I'm like oatmeal I've never cooked oatmeal in my life . And then I started to have sweet potatoes and you smell the house when you're cooking sweet potatoes and you're like , oh , my God , this is like the holidays .

Brian Kopka 29:28

And then I start thinking about fruit and rice puffs , like slowly bringing in more carbs and paying attention to biofeedback . What I realized is that there's a better way for me and there's another , more balanced approach . So that's one of the things you know that I took from it . But I think one of the things that worked for me as far as you know us working together is , you know , you were , you were very understanding in that . Hey , okay , this is where I'm at . You know , this is where we're trying to go , but we're going to go there in a way that that , you know , that makes sense for the person , like we didn't go from . Okay , you're eating a hundred carbs a day , we're going to go right to , you know , 300 immediately , like it was a process , and I think that's one of the things that worked for me here .

Philip Pape 30:06

Yeah , cause in some cases I did sort of push you to a level that maybe you weren't ready for at the time and then you just told me you said , hey , I'm not eating that many calories , like you know . Or I want you to 20 , 2300 , you're at 2100 . It feels good and , by the way , your expenditure seems lower than we expect . So it's okay . Like we don't want you to gain a bunch of weight unnecessarily and we don't want you to be under recovered . So it's this fine dance back and forth and you needed a coat and I'm not saying you had to have a coach , but you almost did , like anybody listening . That extra pair of eyes is going to give you that feedback and also challenge you and also support you and kind of hold you as you if you fall or whatever . You know what I mean . Like it's all of it pushing you , holding you . And so let's touch on a few of those specific areas .

Philip Pape 30:53

Right , carbs , fiber . You eat a lot of fiber . So because you cook at home and because you eat a lot of whole foods , you have a lot of fiber . Like 60 , 70 grams of fiber , which for most guys I'm asking them to get at least 30 or 35 , right , so you're plenty in there . But we had this conversation about the macro math , how , like , a normal gram of carb is four calories but a gram of fiber is like two and a half or less . It could be zero depending on the type of fiber . And you're like , so you're

Coaching Philosophy and Personal Growth

Philip Pape 31:20

telling me to eat more carbs than macro factors telling me , and how is that not going to go over the calories ? And we had that conversation like it's because of all the fiber , you actually need more grams of carbs because it doesn't add up to as many calories . That's just one example because of my , I don't know if you want to comment on that .

Brian Kopka 31:34

No , it's a great point . I remember looking at my macro factor one day and I said you know what ? Let me just check the app . And I started to do the math and I thought to myself I think I found a glitch in the app , you know . But you know what ? What I took from that is look , there's different kinds of carbs . And what I took from that is you know , pre and post workout there's certain carbs that work better for me . You know , at lunchtime and at dinnertime there's different , slower acting carbs , slower digesting carbs that work better for me .

Brian Kopka 32:03

But I think one of the many things I got from you know tracking is you get to see . You know what you're eating . You know , and I think a lot of people could speculate , you know I'm definitely getting my body weight and protein . What ? How do you know ? I mean , do you weigh the chicken breasts , like , do you count ? You know , do you count this stuff ? If I went to a financial advisor and if he said to me he goes , you know , I think you're , you're probably going to be good to retire around this age . I'm just guessing tire around this age . I'm just guessing , I'm thinking I don't know , but I would be like , wait a second , how do we measure this ? You know , I want to be really , you know , really specific about it . So , getting to your question , you know , when it comes to carbs , you know , you know , that's one of the things that I took from that .

Philip Pape 32:42

Yeah , and then another one was weight gain .

Philip Pape 32:45

Right , like we should talk about that , because I definitely have mentioned you on the podcast a few times again without saying your name , saying , like I have this client who's he's a guy , not a woman , because we always talk about women and weight gain and a bit afraid of gaining too much weight , and it makes sense .

Philip Pape 32:59

You know you're lean , you worked hard for it , you don't want to , like just gain fat unnecessarily , and it's true that leaner folks have a different propensity for gaining fat , for example , than someone with more body fat who has the energy stores on their body . Well , we worked on that and we kind of had a bunch of variables changing at once . That's kind of what I wanted to talk about , and you're welcome to be open with whatever you're willing to share regarding any medications or whatever . But one of the things we did is we introduced creatine , which for most clients , when they do creatine , they might get a couple pound weight bump and then things level out in a few weeks and I feel like for you it just kept ballooning up your water retention and weight for like weeks and weeks and weeks , and so you went off of it and it kind of came back proving almost that that was what it was doing . Anyway , tell us your thoughts on all that .

Brian Kopka 33:47

Yeah , you know . So , first of all , you know I want to acknowledge , you know I don't know how many guys are , you know , open about it , but you know when it comes to weight , you know sometimes it's it's it's not easy for people , especially if they have a family history of obesity or they have a history , you know , being heavier . And when you're making lifestyle changes and they're stacking each other and they're compounding , you could see variations in weight , especially when you're doing it daily . And variations in weight especially when you're doing it daily . And I know that if you ask most people about weighing themselves daily , they probably don't want to , because you know they don't want to see that number daily . And I think the big learning from it is that it's natural to have variations in weight daily based on a lot of things . So for me personally you know , philip , to answer your question you know when you're doing a low carb diet and you introduce carbs and one of the things that I got from you is you help you know me really understand the science behind what happens when you ingest carbs in terms of you know the water storage and the muscle and what that means in terms of weight , especially the next day and then you add on , you know , creatine , I mean you could see large fluctuations in weight and I think you know being able to , to understand the science behind it , and one of the things you always said that I loved and it always stick with me it's natural for somebody to step on a scale . It's not natural , it's very .

Brian Kopka 35:05

I would say it's a . It's common for somebody to step on a scale in a day and have one , three pounds different . I've done it . And then you would say to me did you overeat by 7,000 calories yesterday ? And obviously I didn't , you know . So what are the other factors ? So this is the course of questions week . So what are some of the other factors that might contribute to this ? And that's really helpful in understanding the fluctuations in weight , and I know a lot of guys might not talk about it . I'm sure it's important to you know a lot of people , including women , but it's important to know that for me . So that's one of the big learnings I got from this .

Philip Pape 35:44

Yeah , yeah , exactly , I mean , otherwise you're . Even when you're measuring and tracking , you may misinterpret the data , which is important too . You got to understand why it's changing , and I do always love throwing that back at people of like . You know , a pound of fat is 3,500 calories , so unless you over-consume by that , you didn't gain a pound of fat .

Allan 36:03

It's a pound of something else , something else that's not fat . Hi , my name is Alan and I just want to give a shout out to Philip , Pape of Wits and Weights , for being a huge part of the foundation for my continued health and well-being . Philip exemplifies a nutrition coach who demonstrates how much he cares . Philip works tirelessly and with dedication to provide coaching , support and major content for us to use . He creates a practical approach from research and Philip empowers all of us to use food as quality for our health . He is skilled in how to assess and direct nutrition . Philip creates a community full of wisdom , support and camaraderie . In summary , philip Pipe is the real deal . He knows how to assess and direct nutrition and he continues to steer me in the right direction . Thank you , philip All right .

Philip Pape 36:56

So you know we can go all day about the details of that , but let's talk about the coaching philosophy in general , or your philosophy about coaches for things you're passionate about , because you've already mentioned something earlier , not about coaching , but you said the process that you use in physical fitness is the same process you can use anywhere else in your life , and I love that because I think people do need to think about always improving and always . Not 1% a day , but I was listening to a podcast today . They were talking about 0.1% a day because that's more achievable for most people . But , regardless , expand on that thought about your philosophy of getting coaches for things that you're passionate about .

Brian Kopka 37:31

Yeah . So I'm a big believer in investing in oneself and I want to be the best employee , the best son , the best partner , the best friend . I want to be the best in the gym and for me , in order to do that , I got to surround myself with people that are supportive and that challenge me . I made a joke with my therapist . I'm know one of the things that really worked for me in the gym is progressive overload . I don't see any reason why that's not applicable in therapy . You know you keep pushing yourself , you keep digging , you keep , you know , do a little bit more than last time because it's going to yield . You know , personal development . You know . So like for me in my life , like I think about it , it's like I want to have this board of directors around me .

Brian Kopka 38:11

You know I have a therapist for mental health . You know I decided to work with Phillip because I wanted to . You know , upskill myself in fitness and nutrition . You know most people you know might have some kind of financial person that they work with . They don't freelance that on a yellow notepad .

Food Strategy and Sustainable Nutrition

Brian Kopka 38:31

I'm working on becoming a storyteller , so I'm reading a book and taking a course on storytelling . There's a mobility and a stretch coach at our gym . You know I'm going to do a session with him because I want to better incorporate that in . So I think the point is that you know , especially as , as you know , as I've gotten older is I want to surround myself with people that help me upskill myself in every aspect of my life , and I think some of it is just looking at myself saying you know what ? I have a gap here . I need to know more , I need to know better , and that's part of the philosophy , if that makes sense .

Philip Pape 39:04

No , it makes a lot of sense now that you say it , because I think about all the coaches in my life who aren't . They're not , like you know , coaches that I hire for a six month contract , necessarily , but they're a mentor , a coach , an expert , even if it's a friend who you know . I'm not paying them , but I can go to them because I know they know way more than I do , and talking to them for five minutes is going to teach me something that would have taken me five years . It's kind of like the joke about the guy who went to Picasso and Picasso drew the picture on the napkin and he said that'll be like $500 .

Philip Pape 39:32

I don't , I don't remember the exact deal . And he's like why is that $500 ? You just drew , took you two minutes on a napkin . He's like you're not paying for the napkin , you're paying for my entire . You know history of my experience , right ? That kind of idea . So like when I learned to squat , I was stubborn about it for like a year and then I went to coach an hour away . I drove an hour , spent an hour , got an hour back home , paid him a hundred bucks and my squat was beautiful from that point on and just think about how much frustration I say . So , even if you don't have a lot of money , you can still find experts , help , support right .

Brian Kopka 40:05

Totally . You can go online . I mean , you can learn how to cook online , you can do everything online and that's you know . The one thing I want to say about the gym , you know , in relation to this subject of coaching , you know most gyms , when a guy you know is in great shape and if you go up to him and I'm comfortable doing this hey man , you , you look great I'm curious . You know what's your workout routine , what do you eat ? If you don't mind me asking what's your lifestyle , like you know , number one , they're going to be flattered that you're admiring them because it's true . But , number two , most people are really eager to share with you what's worked for them because they're really passionate about it . So I even encourage people , you know , to ask people at the gym . I've learned a lot from and look , some of it is you know things . I have to go home and fact check and Google , but a lot of stuff has been very helpful . So I think that's another avenue you know that people could use . You know that's free .

Philip Pape 40:56

Yep , which is another form of surrounding yourself with the best and the knowledgeable . So all right For guys who are listening and women , because this is everything we're saying is relevant to human beings in general . But you know , they're in a similar position you were in . Maybe they don't have to be a former athlete , but maybe they're in their 40s and 50s . We have a lot of listeners who are kind of in that demographic and stuck in old patterns or listening to the show because they want to get inspired to take action . I talk all the time let's don't binge the content . As great as Wits and Weights is , you're now over 500 episodes . You'd have to binge . Take action now . What ? Take action now ? What would you tell them about making this kind of change like you've made ?

Brian Kopka 41:33

I would say get uncomfortable , you know , be vulnerable , be open to different information , think about how it's going to feel when you're able to achieve certain things and feel better , and what that might look like for you . And I think this you know , this subject we're talking about , about getting a coach , no matter what fitness level you're at . I mean , there's so much information out there that's constantly changing , and to have access to somebody who has a pulse on all that , I think is something you know life enhancing . And I think that when you enhance your physical life , think about you know how it bleeds over into everything else . A lot of people are so busy with kids and work they don't have the time to get into the fine nuances of all the fitness trends and what's real and what's not , and to be able to talk to somebody and be in an environment where you have access to that quickly or quicker than you have time for I think it's life-changing .

Philip Pape 42:35

Yeah , yeah , I think it is . It's an accelerator . A time efficiency accelerator is what you're getting at , because you're a busy guy and I know you carve out the time for these kinds of things . You're very passionate about it . I've had clients who are like I just kind of want the result , I'm committed to it , but I really don't have the time to dig into the science and everything . They have curiosity , but they just don't have the time . And that's an accelerator , because you'd be like okay , here's your next two steps Go do those , report back . Now you have to do the work . You have to be committed . Step one is commitment . Step two is do the work . And then you have to do the tracking to see whether it's working or else a coach can't help you right , they're not going to know without the data . But I think everything you said today is tremendously valuable , brian . It really is like encapsulated into one conversation . I'm going to ask you my $60,000 question , which is is there anything you wished I had asked , and what is your answer ?

Brian Kopka 43:24

I guess the only thing is you know , when it comes to food , you know what are some of the things you've learned that have made , I guess , the physique building and fitness process easier for you .

Brian Kopka 43:41

And the reason why I like that question is because I've spent a lot of time trying to find really good recipes or I don't like the word hacks , but things that help enhance our nutrition . So , like you know I've told you this I've eaten a pint of ice cream every night for three years , every night , unless I'm on vacation and I don't have it . You know , with my Ninja Creamy , I've learned , you know , that I dare somebody to eat 300 calories of strawberries because I've learned , you know what foods are high volume and tasty and fill you up and feel satisfied , you know . So you're not eating six almonds and then feeling deprived . So I think this , this subject around , you know food and what things and choices can make this process enjoyable . I you know . I really

Final Thoughts and Key Takeaways

Brian Kopka 44:30

want people to know this doesn't have to be a a a difficult thing where you feel deprived . There's a lot of things out there that people can do and learn to make this fun , make it enjoyable .

Philip Pape 44:41

Yeah , that's a good point , because people are in different situations with their metabolism .

Philip Pape 44:46

And there's a lot of , for example , women or people who've had bariatric surgery , for example , who have lower metabolisms . Right , and Brian's is not exceptionally high at the moment . It's not like 3,000 calories , but some people's might be 1,500 , and they feel like they're dieting even when they're not . And what you're talking about is there's a way to eat based on volume , based on whole foods , based on cooking your own meals and making things delicious that you would normally avoid because they're like well , that's nice and filling and healthy , but it's kind of boring . Now you can make it delicious . That will go a long way toward feeling like you're eating 2000 calories when you're only eating 1500 . And your 60 gram fiber is a good example of that . Brian , If somebody literally adopted your diet right now , they probably would feel a lot fuller . I just know it .

Brian Kopka 45:30

Yeah , cool man , and that's one of those things that you know I've learned has helped me in different ways , and I've learned when to use fiber , how to use fiber , so , yeah , yeah , but you know people on Carnivore say you don't need fiber , but that's a different topic for another day .

Philip Pape 45:44

Brian , where do you want folks to look you up ? I know lot of things happening . What do you want people to connect with you personally ?

Brian Kopka 45:50

So I'm going to , I'll share with you my email and I'm always I'm a big proponent of helping others . I would have never got to where I am in life professionally or personally or or fitness wise without the help of others . So I'll give you my email and they can reach out to me directly via email for help or in any way I could support somebody with any of the subjects we talked about . I'd always be happy to .

Philip Pape 46:11

Cool . Yeah , we'll throw the email in the show notes . We'll make it so that it's not clickable in the show notes to avoid the spammers and get people reaching out to you , brian . So , man , this has been fun . Again , people love these case studies and we really covered a lot of the interesting things we did together and , honestly , we scratched the surface . There's a lot we didn't cover today , but thanks again , man , for doing this and coming on the show . Thanks for having me , phil .

Brian Kopka 46:33

Appreciate it .