Why Women 50 Plus Struggle

Philip Pape 0:01

If you're a woman over 50 who's been strength training and eating enough protein, and you've heard all the things about your metabolism and hormones working against you, that building muscles harder and harder, and frankly, you're not seeing the strength gains or the fat loss or body reconf you know should be happening. This episode is for you because today I'm teaming up with fitness coach Pam Sherman to answer all the questions women over 50 are asking about training, nutrition, body recomp. We're covering everything from bone density and joint issues to protein and recovery. You'll learn why the advice you've been following might be holding you back, what a realistic timeline looks like for gaining muscle over 50, and specific tips that make a difference in strength and fat loss while your physiology is changing. Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that helps you build a strong, healthy physique using evidence, engineering, and efficiency. I'm your host, certified nutrition coach Philip Pape, and today I'm doing something a little bit different. Instead

Meet Coach Pam And The Plan

Philip Pape 1:04

of an interview, I'm teaming up with fellow coach, women over 50 expert, all around great person Pam Sherman. She was on the podcast before, we'll give you a link to that. But today we're gonna do a collaborative QA focused specifically on women over 50. Now, Pam and I are going to tackle those super important questions that all of you have about strength training, nutrition, body recomposition for women who, when you're over 50, we've covered the period of post-menopause and beyond phases of life. And all these questions actually came straight from you, the listener, the women who listen to the show and are struggling with real challenges, concerns about osteoporosis and joint pain, to how much protein do I eat, to what's going on with my metabolism. And neither Pam nor I have actually seen the questions yet. I took a lot of questions from you guys. I smushed them into AI and came up with a curated list. And we're gonna make it a surprise QA, a little twist to make it more interesting for all of you. So, Pam, my friend, thank you and welcome back to the show.

Pam Sherman 2:07

Thank you. It's so great to be here. We always have the best time talking. You could talk for too long, so I know we're gonna keep it in a certain amount of time.

Philip Pape 2:14

We'll keep it concise. I so I have like 11 questions. I don't know if we'll get to them all, but we'll just tackle them. How about that? You want to jump right in? Okay. So the first one is about bone mineral density and strength training, very important topic for this

Bone Density Basics And Heavy Lifts

Philip Pape 2:27

age range. And the question is how does strength training specifically impact bone density, bone mineral density for women in peri and postmenopause? And then, of course, corollary to that, what exercises are effective for the areas that a lot of women care about the most, like your hips and your spine. So, what are your thoughts on that?

Pam Sherman 2:45

Well, hips and spine scream deadlift to me. Uh, truly. Our muscles protect our bones. And I still see a lot of ladies at the gym not lifting enough weight. Anytime your dumbbell has a color, we're gonna put those dumbbells down and we are going to lift heavier weights. That's really weird.

Philip Pape 3:04

Wait, wait, wait. Mine are black. That's my color dumbbell.

Pam Sherman 3:07

Pink, orange, yellow, blue. Uh I think a lot of women, and if you are not certain of what to do, hire a trainer for a session or two to get your forum down. But you're gonna get the most bang for your buck with your basic compound lifts, your deadlifts, your squats, overhead press. You don't have to do bench press, but shoulder press. More load is gonna be better for your body. And that's not more load right away. It's working up to more load, but your muscles always are gonna protect are protective for your bones. So starting now and never stopping, I think is your best bet to help. I have osteoarthritis in my low back. And I like I've been strength training and it is a natural cause in our bodies, but I'm gonna do everything I can to keep it from increasing. So more load, more load, more protein, more calcium-rich foods. I even take a supplement, but I know the supplements aren't gonna do nearly as much as my strength training does for my body.

Philip Pape 3:59

Yeah, I love that you well first mentioned deadlift. It's my favorite lift personally, and it's also one that I tell people all the time can solve a lot of back issues for folks if you do it right. But the heavy is a trigger word because I know when I go on shows and they're like, what does it mean to lift heavy or how should you lift heavy? It requires some nuance and maybe you can help us explore this. Here's my perspective two things. One is that we know the driver of muscle development specifically, not strength, but muscle growth and size, is mechanical tension, which is getting close to failure. And we know that there's a wide range of heaviness, i.e., rep ranges, that can get you there. When we're talking osteoporosis specifically, and you mentioned heavy, I really do think we mean in the strength regime of heavier, more like 60% of your max or higher is the threshold I've learned, where it truly is lower reps and quite heavy because the bones respond to that pressure on the muscles, kind of requiring the matrix inside those bones to stitch back together more densely when you adapt. You know what I mean? That's kind of where my mind goes. And then I've heard other good coaches say, like, yeah, one of the important things is the big compound lifts

What “Heavy” Really Means

Philip Pape 5:12

actually in the like five to eight rep range ish when osteoporosis is a concern. So do you agree with that? Is that what you think of as heavy or is there a wider range here?

Pam Sherman 5:21

No, I definitely do. If you're getting a 10, that's not heavy enough.

Philip Pape 5:24

Yeah.

Pam Sherman 5:24

Um, and if you've never done this before, I want to start with a movement pattern. In fact, I have a couple male clients I just started with. We started with a body bar to get the pattern of the hinge because they weren't hinging. So you have to get the movement down first. And I love what you said that it's great for your back because I know people who don't know about lifting say, oh, that lifting's terrible for your back. I'm like, it's not for your posterior chain, it's great, but you have to have the right pattern for that to work. And then I would say six, eight is even too much. I would say four to six is a great rep range as well.

Philip Pape 5:54

Yeah, it's interesting because if you program eight, then it almost mentally gets to the point where people will not push hard enough and they'll kind of like stop at eight. If you program five, you kind of start getting the picture of what heavy means. Yes. Because you're like, well, yeah. You know, it's a different now. When you get down to like singles and triples, that's a little more on the powerlifting side. That's a different beast altogether. You don't have to do that, but it's interesting. Okay, let's go to the next one. Let's just pop through these. This is fun. So, another muscle training, a muscle-related one, and this is about the timeline for regaining lost muscle mass after age 50, which I think is a great premise on the question that acknowledging we do lose muscle mass, like starting in our 30s, if we're not doing something about it. So, this question is if I'm sedentary now, which a lot of listeners have found this show maybe wondering about training, training curious, what are the expectations? Because we know we're not about quick fixes, we're not about like getting jack swollen six six pack in six months. If you've never trained before, that's not what it's about. What would you say is like a timeline for at least regaining lost muscle mass, let alone building new muscle?

Pam Sherman 7:04

Realistically, nine months to a year.

Philip Pape 7:06

Yeah. Okay.

Pam Sherman 7:07

Um, I it's not that long. It's not that long. And time is gonna pass anyway. It's just hard in our quick fix society where we get I can order something on Amazon now and have it be delivered tonight. I mean, your health really is something that is there's never a quick a quick solution. And where you are right now, say where you are right now is at the top of a mountain. Well, how long did it take you to get to the top of that mountain? 50 years? You can't expect a quick on the other side. Consistency is going to be your best friend and know that a year from now, you could feel 100% different with consistency. That's it.

Philip Pape 7:40

Yeah. Let me ask you about consistency because first of all, I love the quote that time is going to pass anyway. I always say, like, you can't get in a time machine. So let's buckle up, let's be stoics about it and say, what can we control now? But consistency, I heard someone mention, actually, it was Alan Lazarus who was actually recently on the podcast just last week before this episode came out, and on his podcast was talking about when he works with men and women, he hears different language sometimes that resonates when it comes to consistency. That sometimes men respond to that word and respond to discipline more. And then women sometimes respond to routine. What are your thoughts? Being a woman, working with women, are is there language that this is a side tangent, but I was just curious about that.

Pam Sherman 8:19

Well, I think women probably do because we are mostly in charge of, well, when our kids were

Regaining Muscle: Real Timelines

Pam Sherman 8:24

little, they're breakfast, they're packing their lunches, making dinner, getting to soccer, laundry, and that's our routine for many, many, many years, where it's different for guys. They don't, you know, they're not as much in the day-to-day as in as far as child raising goes. So that probably does resonate more with women. And putting it in your routine does not make you selfish. It's self-care. That's it. And yeah, you hear people say, you know, put yourself first on the list. It's very hard for women to put themselves first. I just want them to put themselves on the list, period.

Philip Pape 8:53

Put themselves in there. Yes. With with everything else. Okay, so building that routine. So you said nine months to a year, which I like that timeline because it's like not so long that it feels forever, and it's not so short that we're unrealistic about it. My opinion on this, so to give you my thoughts, are we're talking about regaining loss muscle mass and training for the first time. You're gonna get a lot of, you know, what we call newbie gains, right? In the first three months, let's say, even the first month, you're gonna find your actual numbers. Like if you start with a movement pattern, like Pram was talking about, and you learn to say body weight squat, then you grab a goblet, maybe, and then you immediately go to a barbell, which you can start pretty early in a barbell. I've heard like I've heard narratives of like, we don't start with a barbell, we'd ladder up, but but you can go really light with the barbell. So it's in my opinion. And it's a very different like center of gravity and slight different positioning. But you start there, and then the first month or two, your numbers just go up and up and up because if you keep the routine of showing up in the gym two or three times a week and squat every time, it's gonna be easy what you did last time. So you're gonna have to go up. That neuromuscular adaptation is all between the brain and the nervous system. You're not gonna see necessarily visual changes in that first month. Probably not. You know, you may, you may not. I don't know. But when you're talking nine to 12 months, now you've got like, okay, the first three months is strength. Then your body has to build more muscle and make your muscles bigger because you just keep pushing it. What are you doing to me now? You you're trying to actually use this thing after all these years. And so it has to get bigger, and that's where you start to see visual changes. The one thing I would caution is like, make sure you're tracking this stuff and have maybe somebody else that gives you an independent perspective because people are down on themselves all the time. Like, women, like, I don't see any change. I'm like, show me your before and after photos. Wow, look at those back muscles popping, like your waist is down, you're looking more vibrant, you've got great posture. And that's just the physique side, let alone the mental changes. So, what what are your? I know you have some thoughts here.

Pam Sherman 10:51

Yeah, women are very hard on themselves. And I encourage them to take weekly pictures because it's very hard to you see yourself every day. It's very hard to see that. But in a picture, you might see your waist coming in, you might see muscles in your back. I mean, it's the little, and you know, before women get in a you could be in a gym outfit, you could be in a bathing suit, you could be something that just shows your body, but it's just for you to see and to take measurements because those inches here and there, you won't see in the mirror. But when you measure, you're like, oh my gosh, I lost an inch off my hips. That's a lot. And to celebrate showing up for yourself. There is no overnight success, but showing up for yourself over and over, I encourage my ladies to keep win journals. Did you drink water? Did you eat enough protein? Did you show up at the gym? Like those are all wins as opposed to, I didn't, you know, X, Y, or Z. Like, let's be positive with your progress.

Philip Pape 11:41

Yeah.

Pam Sherman 11:41

You're amazing. You're showing up for yourself. That's great. And yes, you will see gains. But I also think you have to like do those things every week to see. You don't have to be on the scale, maybe once a month, once every other week if you hate the scale, but you have to do the things to show yourself progress.

Philip Pape 11:55

100%. 100%. And and anyone who listens to this show knows I actually have a slightly more extreme take on scale weight of weighing yourself every single day because there's trade-offs or benefits to that in terms of the psychological aspect, but you have to have some context and awareness of like when you see that number, how not to freak out and understand what it means. But that's a different topic. Yeah, no, I love everything you're saying. And I guess the next question is perfect because we're

Consistency, Routine, And Tracking Progress

Philip Pape 12:20

talking about lifting heavy, we're talking about developing a routine, but we're also talking to women over 50. And the question is about joint issues while training. Some of you already start with joint issues, knee issues, back pain, um, shoulder issues before you even start. And you may feel like that's holding you back. Others who are listening, they're like, okay, I hear what Pam and Philip are saying about lifting heavy. What about bad knees, frozen shoulder, that back pain, you know, because you're probably sitting all day at your desk job. How do I prevent getting injured? Because this sounds like a scary thing, slinging around all this weight.

Pam Sherman 12:52

Frozen shoulder, ladies. Have you gone to see your OB and gotten your hormone levels checked? That is a common symptom of menopause and low estrogen. Literally, it's one of the biggest it really is. When you've got menopause symptoms, frozen shoulder is huge for menopausal women. And for if you've never heard that before and you haven't gotten your hormone levels checked, listen to my friend Karen Martel's podcast. He is amazing about educating you on hormones and menopause. But estrogen can make a huge difference with that. If you have bad knees, oh my gosh, strength training is gonna help your knees because you're gonna strengthen your quads and your hammies and your glutes, which will make your knees feel better. It's gonna do nothing but make your knees feel better. If you have extra weight to lose, losing that weight will make your knees feel better as well. Those are my my first initial thoughts.

Philip Pape 13:34

Yeah, those are great. And I want to add to that, because that's that's an encouragement to just get going with it and see if your symptoms actually improve, like doing a squat the right way. And now you're loading your knees a little bit, but doing it through the range of motion and seeing how that progresses. I guess to add to that would be if you're doing something that's out and out, outright painful, that is something's off there with potentially your form or the weight or something like that. But if you start light and you build from there, your body will adapt to it. And that's an important concept for people to understand. They're like, well, I'm gonna lift heavy. It's heavy for you, which might be like 50 pounds, might be 20 pounds, you know, not 200 pounds, but eventually you get there. And then the other piece, I guess, is if you truly have an injury or surgery you're recovering from, of course, take your medical advice. But also, there are so many ways to adapt a movement with grips, with width, with range of motion. And I've had to go through this myself, ladies, with with my shoulder because I had rotator cuff surgery. And I finally found, like with landmines and close grips and pauses that I can train. And the guy, the goal is how do you train? Not I can't train because I'm injured. It's how do I train not through the injury per se, but how do I train in a safe way? Anyway. Any other thoughts add there?

Pam Sherman 14:51

Yeah, I feel like we need to focus on what we can do versus what we can't do. I had a friend that had meniscus surgery last year, and I'm like, okay, so why can't we just train your upper body and your core? And she's like, Oh.

Philip Pape 15:02

Yeah, yeah, the all or nothing is like so So prevalent. Prevalent. Yeah. Yeah. Um, all right, we're almost at a protein question, I noticed, but the next one is one more training question, and that question four, because I I I love this uh yoga. Is yoga, Pilates, or bar considered adequate strength training for women over 50, or is dedicated heavy resistance training non-negotiable? Okay, this is this is an easy one for us. Come on.

Pam Sherman 15:27

Stop it, ladies. Non-negotiable.

Philip Pape 15:30

Yeah.

Pam Sherman 15:30

I I I have many, many women who love, love, love, love, love Pilates and bar. Fine. However, you are not gonna get that load on your muscles in Pilates or yoga. Do it because you love it and add two minimum days of strength training in a week. If you could do three, that would be amazing. I encourage women to do what they love because you should get joy, some joy of your exercise, and then some exercises do it because it's great for you for your long-term health and wellness. And it actually drives me crazy that women think that Pilates is enough. Like I can't even with that, Philip.

Philip Pape 15:59

Is it because they just love it so much? Or does strength training sound too hard and different? What's the reason or another reason?

Pam Sherman 16:08

Well, I do think women love group exercise with other people, you get those endorphins, somebody's telling

Training With Joint Pain And Injuries

Pam Sherman 16:15

you what to do. Strength training, I don't think so, but many do. It's just boring and it's hard. It's hard to push yourself. Uh, and it's just not fun. I mean, I'm weird. I think it's fun. I have a great playlist, I think it's fun, no problem. But many women are not self-motivated and don't know what to do, so they find it a struggle to make that time that 45 minutes to an hour to get to the gym to work out. Nobody's there cheering them on, telling them what to do. It's more of a solitary thing, which if it's all or nothing, yes, go to bar, but maybe find a girlfriend and go to the gym and do your strength training together if that's what it's gonna take. But really for the rest of your life, I think strength training is a non-negotiable.

Philip Pape 16:52

Yeah, I think what you hit on is trying to find the thing that motivates you and that you like about it and maybe integrate it into your strength training and or add in the training, understand that that's important and that's why you're doing it, and then still do one or two of the other things, knowing there could be some trade-offs depending on your goals and everything else. But all in all, that's part of life, right? Is trade-offs to enjoy and stay consistent. Okay, so now we got our first protein question. Question number five. Now, as this episode comes out, guys, you just heard episode 398 was a definitive updated protein episode I did. All the things, okay. So the straight up what the science says, but what are the minimum daily protein intake goals uh in grams or pound per body weight, specifically for women over 50 who are lifting and want to improve body composition? So, what I want to I want to add to that, Pam, I think what she we should answer is what are the differences because they are women over 50? I want to see if if there are and like why, rather than general protein requirements, because they can hear my last episode and I talked it to death. Let's just be specific here.

Pam Sherman 17:56

Well, our protein needs actually increase as we get older because we are losing muscle. So I would say at a minimum, one gram per pound of ideal body weight. So if your ideal body weight is 150, if you can get 135 to 150, like it's not a game of perfection, it's a game of you know, doing what you can. That is so, so important. And I find so many women struggle with this. And I'll say it, it's not hard. You just gotta. I actually enjoy my two cups of coffee in the morning with uh protein powder in it so I can start my day with 30 grams, and I'm ahead of the game there. But we want to build muscle and we want to keep our muscle. And in order to do that, we have to get enough protein in.

Philip Pape 18:34

You know, you mentioned the reason for that is the loss of muscle mass. But are there other factors? Um, because there is this concept of anabolic resistance that I've researched a lot and I still feel like it's slightly not supported as a real thing. And a lot of these things are confounded by the fact that you're losing muscle mass and you're just older because of that. But I have I have seen through the evidence over the years that like women might need a little more than men, older people need a little bit more than younger, independent of some of these factors. But I do like your recommendation of one being kind of the upper limit where you need to be worried about. If you're nowhere close to that, get more, you don't have to go more than that. What are your thoughts on that? Like, I don't know how much of a science you're aware of.

Pam Sherman 19:16

I I am not aware of a ton of science. I just know that women have the hardest time. So for if you've never even logged your food before, I would say minimum 25 grams of protein every time you eat. That includes your snack. So if you ate four times a day, you're at 100. Baseline, start there and then get it to 30 grams every time you eat, and then 35 grams. And what I find is women are like, I just want a little mid-afternoon something. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, have 30 grams with that mid-afternoon something, something. Be intentional with your food. And I know I'm over the top on this, and I'm so passionate about it, as I know you are, Philip. But I'm looking at, I'm almost 60. When I'm 80, I want to feel as good as I do now. And how I eat and how I move is gonna affect that. And, you know, women are a lot of women are afraid

Is Yoga Or Pilates Enough

Pam Sherman 19:58

to eat more. I'm like, you're never gonna gain weight eating protein. You're just not.

Philip Pape 20:01

Yeah.

Pam Sherman 20:02

Please, your your body's gonna look better when you eat more protein.

Philip Pape 20:05

And sometimes the opposite happens in that you eat more protein, you get fuller, you know, you eat higher quality food, and all of a sudden it displaces things, and you eat less calories, fewer calories. You know, that's what I see way more often. Yeah, you're not gonna overeat on protein. If you ate pure sirloin steaks all day, which you know, there's carnivore people that do that. Seriously, though, like how much could you eat? Like, that's just a good thought experiment of how many calories you actually or bowl of yogurt. Like, I eat a bowl of yogurt and I'm like, okay, I'm done. Like this, I'm pretty full, you know. This is great. But if I ate bowls of a bowl of yogurt all day, I'm only gonna eat what probably my body needs. It's kind of interesting.

Pam Sherman 20:40

Yeah, your protein department, like we went out for a steak dinner, my son's birthday was Monday to a steak place. The smallest steak they had is eight ounces, and I'm like, I can't do that. I can't even, I can barely even eat four. I got the lobster tail instead because I could eat all that lobster tail, but there's a certain amount of fullness that your body's like, I just I can't do it.

Philip Pape 20:56

Yeah, yeah.

Pam Sherman 20:56

So um, when women say, Oh, I had two scrambled eggs, I'm like, you need four or five, like, oh, I can't eat that much. Like, you can.

Philip Pape 21:05

Yeah.

Pam Sherman 21:05

Or have a cup of egg whites and one egg, and then you know, that'll be easier. But really, you are so much more full. I could eat my head size in chips. I could not eat my head size and protein. It just doesn't work like that.

Philip Pape 21:16

It's exactly it. It's exactly. Every time my wife cooks big pork chop or chicken breast, I'm like, you know, it's it's it's protein and I'm full. Like it's just gonna be full, you know. So all I can stomach on the side is some quinoa broccoli or something, you know? Yes. Yeah, no, it's good. Okay, let's go, let's continue on the food train here. The next question is about calorie deficits, which we talked to death on this show. But the again, let's get specific. How should a woman over 50 calculate a sustainable calorie deficit? I like that word for weight loss, which here we like to talk about fat loss as well, not just weight loss, given common issues with tracking inaccuracies, hormone-related changes throughout the cycle and fluid retention. I'm just ad-libbing here, and uh potentially lower BMR, which I assume could mean just women versus men, but also your metabolism tends to decline during peri postmenopause for other reasons as well. Go. Sustainable calorie deficit.

Pam Sherman 22:13

Well, I really like you introduced me to macrofactor, and I really like that. And one other thing that I really think is important is eating different calories on the days that you lift versus the days that you don't lift. Where I mean, until you introduce me to that, and I've done, you know, obviously, as you get older, you get more research in. Like, we shouldn't be eating the same amount of calories every single day. When you put more effort into your lifting, your body needs more food on the days that you're maybe it's doing a little bit of cardio, you don't need as much. So you have to look at your life and think, okay, well, first of all, there's also your online calculators with your daily um T D E, right? Those calculators. I would do those. That's that's a great baseline. And it's really so individualized. If you are working

Protein Targets For Women Over 50

Pam Sherman 22:58

really hard, you are not in a big calorie deficit that day. That's just you just and make sure your protein is spot on so you are not hangry all day long. I find women, you know, when they want to save calories, they're trying to cut back like don't eat a lot for breakfast, don't eat a lot for lunch, and then they they're hangry and then they overeat. Be smart about your food and try to plan it out. When you eat it, like you said, a big bowl of Greek yogurt with some berries, that's a great meal post-lift because you aren't full. Maybe some you know, oatmeal on the side, you want some carbs in there too. And don't be afraid of carbs. You talked about that a lot too, is our bodies need protein, carbs, and healthy fats. All that is going to play in your calorie deficit. And the great thing is, you get to decide what you eat. Like don't look at online food plans. Eat what you would like to eat. That makes such a big difference.

Philip Pape 23:42

Yeah, so you hit on a couple of really good themes. One is just tracking, which we'll talk to the cows come home. You have to track whatever you need to measure. And the other is what you're eating. And ladies, listen, this is a really important point because I'm gonna tie this into a concept I've been like playing in my head with recently. Let's say you're not tracking any of this stuff, but you listen to what Pam says and you focus prioritize protein. I would also argue prioritizing fiber and nutrients, and and nutrients only come from nutrient-dense foods, you know, berries and you know, uh seeds and nuts and lean meats and dairies and all the fun whole foods we have available, the bounty of foods, lots of colors, lots of variety. If you start there and now you're feeling better and you're more satiated and you're performing better in the gym, only then should you say, okay, calorie deficit. Like too many women get it backward. They're like, how do I calculate my calorie deficit and jump into that? No, no, no, no, no. Let's eat really well. Let's perform, let's set ourselves up for success. And then even if you weren't tracking, and this is gonna sound like sacrilege for me, Pam. Even if you don't use MacroFactor, guess what you have to do? See how you feel and is your body trending up or down, and then change the amounts. It's actually that simple. So a sustainable calorie deficit should feel like something that's just a tiny bit hungrier than usual, that's a tiny bit less than usual, and your body fat is trending down slowly over time relative to maintaining. And if you were then to track that with a calorie app, you would see it should match something like a few hundred calories below your maintenance, you know, and it's gonna change constantly.

Pam Sherman 25:20

You can't measure what you don't track. So I have had 99% of my clients go, I hate tracking. I'm like, they said it's hard. I said, you know, it's hard. Having a baby's hard. Tracking your food is not hard. Literally. No, it's not hard. It's not hard. It doesn't take very long. We eat a lot of us eat the same stuff all the time. It might take an extra five minutes a day. If it's important to you, it's worth doing. I love the TikTok. I love my animal videos on the TikTok. I can also track my food. Like people make time for the things that they want to do. And if it's important enough, if it's important enough for you, you can absolutely do it. And I will say this also can we please get rid of that stupid 1200 calorie number that was has been around forever. That's for a very small person, like maybe five, two or less for an adult woman. That's way, way too little. And what happens is you might gut it out and get there, and then you're starving and you will overeat to compensate. Your body will always try to catch up. So throw that number out the door. That is not for an adult-sized woman for the most part.

Philip Pape 26:16

Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And if you're hearing that and and feeling like, no, no, no, that is me. There's probably something on the expenditure side, right? On the uh metabolism side we want to look at. And it might be the lifestyle factors, it might also be hormones. Because again, we're talking 40s, 50s. There definitely could be a thyroid thing going on. There could be, but I don't want to fear monger, because many cases that's not. Um, could be a testosterone, could be all these things. Uh something in your blood work, could be a nutrient deficiency, right? Could be all those things. I would look, that's going back to how are you eating? How are you feeling? How are you performing? Tracking is gonna accelerate that process because it'll give you more targeted awareness of all those things. And then I was gonna address your timing comment. The cycling is also very individual. That I think that's what you're getting at is like you don't have to do it in one way. You know, you don't have to have the same calories every day, nor do you have to do up and down every other. Like it could be all on the weekends that you

Sustainable Calorie Deficits Without Misery

Philip Pape 27:10

get your extra calories. It could be very fluid and it could go with your cycle as well. Not that there's a benefit in cycle-based eating or training necessarily, but that you feel hungrier and so you should eat more then.

Pam Sherman 27:22

I think all the tracking is good. Tracking your sleep, tracking your steps, you know, tracking your workouts and noticing like if you keep a journal, like noticing the days you're hungrier, they're probably your lower body days if you're lifting because you recruit so much more muscle. So you're gonna be a little hungry on those days, and that's okay. But it really is important to know yourself inside and out. And on the days when you're not as hungry, go, oh yeah, I didn't lift today. I just walked, and that's okay. That that's fine. You might, you know, bake a couple calories for the next day. But really becoming the expert on you is so, so important.

Philip Pape 27:51

Yep. We have a challenge coming up uh called the strong finish challenge in physique university. And I'm doing something I've never done before, Pam, but it reminded me of that is a lot of times you talk about a minimum viable habit or product, right? Like here's the minimum, no zero days, here's the thing I want to do, but here's the minimum. I'm gonna take it a step further and say there's a bailout strategy. In other words, even if you can't do the minimum because you're shopping for Christmas presents, you've got all the events, you've got all the parties. Is there something even less than that? To your point of like, if you're tracking it, at least you can have a streak of something. Like I went out for a five-minute walk, not a 20-minute walk. It's still a five-minute walk, you know? It reminded me of that. So um, yeah, no, good stuff. Okay, so continuing on, kind of related, is a metabolism question. And this is a good one. This is gonna hit on something that is, I think, highly misunderstood. And that is the assumption that your metabolism slows down with age. Okay, and I don't want to gaslight anyone, but the research is very clear when they've looked at populations all across the planet from the Hadza tribe to Western obese populations, that our metabolism is pretty steady from the age of 20 to age of 60, and then it starts to decline, most likely because we've lost so much muscle mass and are so sedentary that it just can't help but reflect that. So when we talk about our 40s, 50s, and maybe 60s, what the heck is going on when it looks like our metabolism is slowing down, and what do we do about it?

Pam Sherman 29:16

I think people are just in general less active. They are at their desks more and they're not moving as much. I mean, think about your 20s, you're in college, you're working on campus. I was a waitress. I walked a million miles a day as a waitress. Um, I ran marathons, I was really, really busy, and your life slows down a little bit unless you make time for it. If you make sure you walk every day, if you are fitting in, putting yourself on that list and getting your strength training in going to yoga, fine. Go yoga is great for some mobility. I mean, we are losing losing mobility as well, but making your health a priority and fitting it into your week. I don't think our metabolism has to necessarily go down if you are staying active as you age. Now, if you're like, you know what, I just want to sit, I'm getting old. It's I'd rather be doing nothing, then yes, your metabolism is going to go down and you will see the effects of that. We see the effects of it all around us. It was very interesting, Philip. I was just in the Paris airport last month. No overweight people.

Philip Pape 30:13

Okay.

Pam Sherman 30:13

They're active. They walk everywhere. They are a culture of walking, walking. Same thing in Greece. I was in Greece. No heavy people, really, the only heavy people sound Americans. Our American society is set up to be less active as we get older. So I think 60 is an age where like I'm just kind of coast. But if you want to feel great, if you do not want your metabolism to go in the tank, lifting, daily walking, eating for your health. I mean, I think we can do things to reverse that statement.

Philip Pape 30:41

Yeah, I agree. The guys on Mind Pump were talking about going to Disney World and all the people on scooters. However, they mentioned the difference between Florida Disney World and California Disneyland. California had far fewer of those people, and there was just like more of a culture in that particular area. What's it Anaheim, I think, is Disneyland? Yeah. Where obviously it must be more, you know, there are stereotypes about the South being having a lot of health issues that are true stereotypes regarding diet and things like that. But it, in other words, it's in our control as human beings. It's not inevitable. I guess the the thing I want to challenge both of us on then is what about the hormone piece? I know that's Karen's like bag. She and I talked about the metabolic storm and how, oh, what if you are doing all these things and still something's there? Is it then inevitably hormones? How big of a piece is that? What are your thoughts there?

Pam Sherman 31:31

I love hormone replacement therapy. And I really encourage women to find out more about it. That it's not awful for us. It's actually awesome for our health. And it helps our bodies run like they should be running. It's keeping your hormones stable. When we're in menopause, they start to tank and really keeping your hormones stable. You're doing everything you can to keep feeling great. So if you are not on anything, certainly you your energy is going to go down without that testosterone. You're not going to be sleeping as well. You're getting hot flashes, which means you are not going to want to work out. You're not going to want to prep food. Like it's going to affect every part of your life. So, yes, it could be a hormonal storm in your body. And you can also get them replaced and see how great you feel. So everything is in our well, I shouldn't say everything, a lot of things are under control. Some women can't take it for certain reasons. If you can, I would suggest it because it just means you're like fine-tuning your health by keeping your hormones in balance.

Philip Pape 32:24

Yeah, get yourself baseline tested. Um, any men who are still listening to this or decided to listen through this, same thing, like get it tested. Um, we do performance blood work, but there's lots of great practitioners. You know, we talk about Karen and I can hook you up with Pam when it comes to a lot of this stuff as well with connections. But yeah, it's it's more and more important. Hopefully, the healthcare industry will slowly shift over toward a better recognition of women's health and hormones because obviously it's not there yet, but I hear see inklings of it starting to happen. So maybe 30 years from now.

Pam Sherman 32:54

I hope so, because I know I'm have my hormones done through Karen's group and they want you to feel optimal. And it's interesting because I get it's out of pocket, of course. So I go to my regular OB and I'm like, so can I get my testosterone cream at this level? I'm like, oh no, that's way too high. It's not. It's actually how I feel my best. So I will continue to pay out of pocket because I want to be optimal. I don't want to just be okay.

Philip Pape 33:17

I agree. Yeah. It's uh I know some of the practitioners will

Does Metabolism Really Slow With Age

Philip Pape 33:20

also call it like physiological levels, which I like that term as well. I like optimal and performance and physiological. Like all those terms kind of mean the same thing in our world of it's not the normal population range. It's shifted up to a feeling better range, which then some regular doctors might say is too high or unnecessary. So when you think of physiologic range, it's like, where were you in your 20s and 30s? If you were there and perfectly safe, why couldn't you be there in your 50s and perfectly safe? It's, you know, now men trying to get up to 3,000 total testosterone for perform, you know, for the gym, that's that's a different thing. There's risks there. So um, yeah, no, that that's good to understand about this whole metabolism thing. I think it also ties into all the research. Uh, Lauren Calenzo's Semple of Mass, I drop her name all the time because I love her. She's great. She is constantly pushing back on the narrative that the sky is falling for women, like for everything. And and it's not really true. It's just that there are lifestyle factors and some other things that are exacerbating it for women in that age range. And it's not to, again, gaslight you guys. It's to say, you've got power here. Like you can go after it. And then once you do the things, it removes constraints that were there and it reveals whatever constraints were made, you know, like the hormones. Anyway, I'm going on a diatribe.

Pam Sherman 34:36

No, I've heard women say, like, I'm just gonna suffer through it. And I'm like, why? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You don't have to suffer through it. You can feel better. You can actually sleep better too. That let's not suffer. Come on. Let life is hard enough. Let's feel great during this stage of life.

Philip Pape 34:49

Feel great. And so part of feeling great, moving to the next question, is the physical expression of all this. And a lot of women who have gained a lot of weight over the years and then they lose the weight, they lose some fat, and they're trying to work on their, you know, how they look and feel, they got loose skin. Let's talk about loose skin. The next question is about women who've lost a lot of weight and they have loose skin. Is this purely a cosmetic thing? Can it be helped with like how much muscle you have, your nutrition can be helpful with any of that? Should you get surgery in certain circumstances? Like, what are your thoughts around loose skin?

Pam Sherman 35:19

I think a lot of that's genetic. Okay. Whether I and if you've lost a hundred pounds, I don't know how much strength training is gonna help that. Like, I really think a consultation with a plastic surgeon, it would be great. That's amazing. But that's a whole like fifth grader that you lost. Now, if it's 20 pounds and you're a little loose, I I think you always have to give yourself a year of regular working out to see what your body's gonna do. You can't make any snap decisions, but with a lot of loose skin, that's really such a personalized decision.

Philip Pape 35:46

Yep. I can't add to that because it's not my area of expertise. I have seen that the degree, the degree of it matters and your body does adapt to some extent. But like obviously, if you have massive amounts of loose skin, you know, it's your personal choice how you want to deal with that. But just do the things you can do and then see what's left. Kind of continuing our theme today. Okay, recovery uh is the next question, of course. Recovery strategies. And the question here is really about recovery being harder when you're older. You know, recovery time is a little bit longer. And so there's a lot of information out there about supplements, mobility work, sleep hygiene, mindfulness, meditation, yoga. The list goes on and on. Walking, what should you prioritize? Like if you had to pick one thing to recover from your training, that's gonna assume your strength training and not over-training. Actually, that's maybe a part of the answer, right, Pam, is don't overtrain. What are your thoughts on recovery? It's a big topic.

Pam Sherman 36:43

I think you absolutely have to have rest days. And rest days can include walking. I think we should walk every day. I know me personally, on days I do legs, my legs always feel better if I'm walking afterwards. But days of no strength training. Like you need you need rest. Stretching, I'm a big proponent of stretching. I always have been. I think stretching is great. I'm gonna drop the name um Travis Elliott on YouTube. He has a yin playlist. It hurts so good because he's holding the stretches for like three to five minutes. Stretching, great. And it's like a meditation and stretching, so it's two for one. If you like yoga, great. But I really think you have to know your body. I was just having this conversation. I just told you this with a gal who wants to train for a marathon. I told her, you can't work out every day. You have to actually, she's 62. I said, you have to let your body have rest days. You're not gonna perform unless you give your body the rest it needs. And yes, sleep hygiene, crazy important. I mean, sleep is our number one thing for recovery for everything. So it's a good sleep, total rest days, daily walking, stretching, really important, and not beating yourself up for doing less. We need to do less so we can do more in the gym.

Philip Pape 37:53

Yeah, I think maybe the psychological piece of the doing less is maybe you replace that thing with the thing you're doing for yourself and count it as that. In other words, like you can call it active recovery. I don't like that phrase so much. But like, if you like to work out every day, well, on your rest day, your workout is your walk. You know what I mean? Like, like put that as part of your routine. So I was thinking, I want the listener to think about when they've gone

Hormones, HRT, And Feeling Optimal

Philip Pape 38:20

on vacation to a beach, you know, they're stressed out of their mind from their work, from their lifestyle. And they finally go to the, they go to a beach, the weather's beautiful, they get to relax, they're not thinking about training, they're not tracking even, they're not maybe not thinking about food and they're just enjoying whatever food, maybe alcohol. I don't care. You know, you're just relaxed and enjoying yourself. And like from a parasympathetic nervous system state, you're maximizing it to the fullest. However, you get there. Maybe not alcohol, but anyway. Um then you get back, and of course, you reached out to me or Pam ahead of time, and you're like, how do I deal with my not working out for a week? And we're like, don't stress it, it's just a week. And then when you get back, you find that all you're stronger than you were, and you find that like lifting feels great and your joints feel better. What does that tell you? Like that tells you that we need this time, and sometimes it happens accidentally. Like for me, if my schedule gets so hectic, I just can't get that training day in and just skip a training day. I don't feel guilty about it anymore because sometimes I come back and now I've skipped two weeks on that session, like that Wednesday session I haven't done in two weeks. All of a sudden my lifts all go up again. I'm like, this is crazy how that works, right? So we need it.

Pam Sherman 39:24

But your body needs rest.

Philip Pape 39:27

Sleep and sleep is a big part of that too. Oh, don't get started on sleep, right?

Pam Sherman 39:30

That's uh and can we stop shooting all over ourselves? Sometimes you shouldn't. And look what happens. You you are more rested. So that next session, your body's like, let's go.

Philip Pape 39:41

Yeah, for sure. So I mean, I guess the long and the short of it is what Pam said is first, are you doing too much and not giving you yourself space for rest? And then pick a few things that are the most important low-hanging fruit for you. And that could be sleep, that could be the stretching, something else.

Pam Sherman 39:59

Well, look at your whole week. I mean, I know I'm a former over-exerciser. I'm just gonna say that I used to run marathons, I used to probably run seven days a week. I just way too much. No strength training. All I did all the things wrong. And now when I help, I have some runners that I'm training. Like, do we need to do a junk mile? Do we need to do a three mile run? I don't think you do. I think you could do some upper body strength and do some stretching and help. Like, what is your long-term goal for yourself? And you want to feel good doing this, whatever you're doing next year, five years, 10 years. So doing less is gonna really benefit you later on. I mean, if you felt better two weeks later, that's still on your body, like rest is best, really.

Philip Pape 40:37

Exactly. And you just mentioned aligning with your goals. We have two questions left, and I'm gonna flip them around because the last question was gonna be about goals. Let's talk about that. Okay. And the question is just how can a woman set meaningful long-term fitness goals beyond the superficial like appearance or beyond weight loss, that center on capability, aging gracefully, you know, the things that, you know, as we get older, we start to value these things more and we want to kind of latch on to those and get motivated and push on those. What do you think?

Pam Sherman 41:07

Well, I think it's good to pick, like I just, my girlfriend, uh, she's 59, she goes, I want to do a pull-up before I'm 60. That's that's a good goal. And I told her exactly exactly how to do it because it's not easy, but there is a way to get there. Do you have a like a squat goal you have? Do you want to be able to do a full body push-up? That's very hard for women. Like, I would pick out physical things that are a challenge to you. And then once you get there, set another goal. But yes, we all want to look at our clothes and all the things, but it's good to have a physical challenge to work on. And then when you get there, you're like, oh my gosh, I did it.

Philip Pape 41:39

Like it feels really good. That's a really good one, Pam, because I know I can blather on about like process-related goals and habits and blah, blah, blah. But the idea of like still making it about some outcome to help drive that process, but an outcome itself that makes it more meaningful is beautiful. Like that's goal, right? So physical could be competition, it could be, you know, if it's if it's food related, I don't know, what would be a good like food-related? Do you even need a food-related goal? Because if you're trying to get a training goal, it kind of forces in the right nutrition. But what would be a good food goal?

Pam Sherman 42:11

It depends what you struggle. If you struggle with protein, getting 125 plus grams of protein a day for the next year, that would be hard to do for a lot of women.

Philip Pape 42:19

Yep.

Pam Sherman 42:19

But you guess, but you have to track to be able to do that.

Philip Pape 42:22

Yeah. So that's see, that that goes to a conversation I had with again, Alan Lazarus. We talked about meta skills, how there's like meta skills, skills, and micro skills. And like to me, the grams per protein a day is like a micro skill. And the skill is just consistently getting protein, and the meta skill is consistency, you know, how it like abstracts up. So trying to get your first pull-up, you then have to map it back and reverse engineer and say, like, okay, what is the escalation process to get the pull-up? What do I have to do three days a week or one day a week or whatever to get there? You know, you have to break it all the way down. So with a protein goal, let's brainstorm it real quick, Pam. Is that enough to say, like, I know I need X per day? Or is there something more meaningful, like medium to long term, that would drive that?

Pam Sherman 43:10

Well, I think for women, we're so used to not thinking about ourselves. We have to think about ourselves and look at our day. What's realistic? You know what? Getting 30 grams of my coffee, yummy and delicious, easy, easy way to start the day. Greek yogurt, one meal a day, super like and it's like two servings because I want to get over that 30 grams. Thinking about the meals that you like. And of course, if

Loose Skin: Expectations And Options

Pam Sherman 43:30

you have dinner with your family, that's a different story. But the first, you know, your coffee, breakfast, lunch, you can control that and thinking, what do I like? And have it's okay to have boring meals on rinse and repeat that you like that keep you satisfied, but it makes your life easier, makes grocery shopping easier. And then dinners, you know, they can be more than three or four because they're probably for your family. But really reverse engineering your whole week to go, okay, what are my breakfasts this week? What am I gonna pack for lunch? What are my non-negotiables? What am I not gonna have? If you're a teacher, there's a bunch of holiday treats in the room, you're not gonna go there, or you're just gonna have gum or mint and avoid that. Like literally think about every part of your week and how you're gonna hit those goals. It's a lot of saying no, and it's a lot of thinking, what am I gonna do? How am I gonna create a successful day for myself every day?

Lisa 44:16

Hi, my name is Lisa, and I'd like to give a big shout-out to my nutrition coach, Felipe. With his coaching, I have lost 17 pounds. He helped me identify the reason that I want to lose weight, and it's very simple longevity. I want to be healthy, active, and independent until the day I die. He introduced me to this wonderful little app called Macro Factor. I got that part of my nutrition figured out. Along with that is the movement part of nutrition. There's a plan to it, and he really helped me with that. The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in. So the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is, and the easier it is to lose weight. When it's presented to you like he presents it, it makes even more sense. And the other thing that he had was a hunker guide, and that really helped me. So thank you, Villa.

Philip Pape 45:00

We just had Halloween and uh when Chuck Retreating, and you because you mentioned the candy, and it's like those are super calorie dense, and I know I'm getting off track, but like even I enjoy the occasional Kit Kat or Reese's or whatever. I think I told you this on I on IG, and I don't know if you were horrified or not, but that's me. It's like my idea of flexibility, right? But I know they're so calorie dense that I'm like, even just one little mini Kit Kat's like, you know, 120 calories. And so I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna have one and I'm gonna build it in, I'm gonna pre-log it, and now work back from that. And it's like, okay, that's in there. Now let me get my protein, let me get this, that. And you mentioned the one or two meals a day that you can start with. I do, I love that idea, especially breakfast. Maybe at the top of the list, and maybe lunch is secondary, only because so few people get enough protein at breakfast. Like lunch, they might, you know, maybe they have a lot of turkey in their sandwich, they have leftover chicken or something from dinner, maybe. But breakfast, I almost never see people have enough protein because you have it's like breakfast foods we get from growing up in America, where like cereal, bagels,

Recovery Priorities And Rest Days

Philip Pape 46:00

muffins, maybe oatmeal. That's like starting to get protein, but we don't often don't have eggs. Like I grew up thinking eggs and bacon are like a fun weekend type thing at a diner or like on the weekend. I'm not gonna have eggs on a Monday, you know? So um, anyway, I it's a great idea. So, ladies, think about that one meal a day that you just don't get protein and how are you gonna do it? How are you gonna do it? It's you know, make it happen.

Pam Sherman 46:22

Well, and you can use convenience foods like Fair Life is a great shake. I just saw Chibani came out with one for people who are not way-based or gain house when they're all at Costco. I've seen those. If you had that with your breakfast, you're gonna get to 30 grams. So you don't have to make everything yourself.

Philip Pape 46:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's competition now among the processed food makers for higher protein foods, which I don't think is the worst thing in the world. It's not bad. Um, like oikos brand Greek yogurt. Um, I forget what it's sweetened with. It might have artificial sweeteners, you know. Um, but I recommend it to a lot of people if you can, if you like, if you're okay with the ingredients, you know. I think they they use either artificial sweetener or or stevia. It might actually be stevia, and and it's fat-free, but because it has some vanilla flavor in there with a stevia, you know, it tastes great and it's a ton of protein. So look for those options.

Pam Sherman 47:09

I am gonna say I love powdered peanut butter and Greek yogurt.

Philip Pape 47:12

There you go. Yeah, like PB2 or something.

Pam Sherman 47:15

Oh with a little bit of brown sugar swerve.

Philip Pape 47:19

It's like a beef in a cloud. I love it, love it. And it's easy, it's easy to make. And then ninja creamy is a whole other thing. I should do a whole uh episode just about that. That um, my actually kids got me for was it my birthday? Yeah, it was my birthday just a few weeks ago. They got me a ninja creamy high protein recipe book. I was like, this is great. You guys are awesome. So, all right, so the last question we have today is, and this is a good one to end on. For a beginner, woman over 50 who is maybe intimidated, intimidated by the gym, you know, not used to going, maybe anxiety over the gym, maybe doesn't have a lot at home, but wants to build a home gym. Let's focus on that. What's the most essential home? So, this question was exercises with minimal equipment. I want to challenge the question and say, like, let's address the equipment too, because you may need to invest in some more equipment. What are your thoughts just on this very common problem?

Pam Sherman 48:11

Well, I would say you can do a ton with your body weight. There are so many YouTube videos out there, and I have a bunch myself on my YouTube channel. Bodyweight exercises start with body weight. Get a mat. You want to stretch on the mat. Dumbbells are great, but I feel like women would not buy heavy enough dumbbells to that's a fact.

Philip Pape 48:31

Like nothing truth right there.

Pam Sherman 48:33

Nothing under 10 pounds. But and and Facebook Marketplace is a great place to buy used workout equipment. So I would definitely go on there. Um, and it depends how much space you have and where you live. I live in California. I can walk outside all year long, so I would not buy a treadmill. If you are in the East Coast, you're you know, winter's coming, treadmill might be a great option. Uh, what are you looking for? Cardio, I mean, I hope you're gonna do strength, but I would say a mat and some good, like a kettlebell. Kettlebells would be great to start but body weight for a month, see how you feel, and then work from there, but get your body moving first. And then you might be like, all right, this is boring, go to a gym. I would highly recommend go to a gym. Because most people, I used to actually, I worked at Linda Evans Fitness Centers in the 90s. She was a big deal back. I'm a lot older than you, Philip, but she was a big um TV star. And when we got trained, 95% of people who have equipment at home do not use it. They use it for clothes hangers, they use it for everything else besides. So I would say if you live within eight minutes of a gym, join a gym. But if you want to start at home, find home workouts that are for body weight and then get a friend and go to classes and then get a trainer and be in the gym.

Philip Pape 49:46

Yeah, there's some common themes there. I see all the time with clients as well. So, what one theme, as you mentioned, is don't use the excuse of not having equipment to not start, get started. And maybe getting started at home is the lowest friction thing for a lot of people. But then within a few weeks, you're gonna find you're too strong for some of these exercises. And then it like gives you the bug of, okay, what's my solution? You got to kind of keep pushing that and and be and get ahead of that. Like, where's the nearest gym? What do they have? Go visit it. So I have clients who like across the spectrum, some will say, you know, they've got a sweet home gym set up, and I'm like, good to go, or hey, my husband has barbells. I'm I'm like, good, let's start using that. And they have a coach to kind of push them to do it. And like you said, not 95% of people don't use their home gym equipment. So you gotta evaluate what's keeping you accountable. And then the I'll say, like, is there a commercial gym? And sometimes people are just in rural areas or they're ranchers or something, and it's like, you know, 40 minutes away. I don't even want to spend 10 minutes going to the gym, me personally, but that's because I will work out at home. So it's a whole spectrum of like, where are you starting from? Love all that advice, Pam. I also think getting gym equipment on Facebook, getting gym equipment from like all these sad CrossFit gyms that are closing that have to get rid of their equipment. Um, there's not many left now, but they were closing a lot over the past few years. And yeah, just uh no excuses. Just get strong. Get strong and have fun with it.

Pam Sherman 51:12

Well, and really, we talked about group exercise. It's a fine place to start. I find women don't push themselves enough, but that's a great place to start. And then be like, okay, I can do more. Then grab a friend and get a trainer, do a double training session and start from there. But you always want to be progressing. I have a girlfriend who takes classes and she goes, Some of these ladies have not

Goals Beyond The Scale

Pam Sherman 51:30

changed their weights in class for six months. Yeah, you are not gonna see results by doing the same thing over and over. That's the definition of insanity, right? So you always want to be challenging yourself.

Philip Pape 51:40

That's exactly it. That's progressive overload right there. So, all right, that's all the questions that I have. But I always like to ask one final one is is there one do you think women over 50 are asking a lot that we didn't really touch on?

Pam Sherman 51:54

Yes. And I'm sorry to break your hearts, ladies. Peanut butter is not protein.

Philip Pape 51:59

Peanut butter is very specific.

Pam Sherman 52:02

Nuts are not protein. Do not grab a handful of nuts and think you're doing yourself a favor. I have said that over and over and over, probably for the last 20 years, on you could be eating 600 calories of nuts. And if you're trying to lose weight, that could be more not half your day's calories, but a lot of your day's calories in a handful. Um, and I just had a lady this week who just said, you know, well, I love my peanut butter and jelly. I said, okay, but you're not eating for your goals. That's eating for comfort. And sometimes you have to break up with a toddler inside of you and say, okay, you're not getting any protein. And you're not having only two tablespoons, you're probably having four or five, because nobody can just have two. It's too delicious. So if you are serious about your goals, I you I you have to eat for your goals. And it that that doesn't mean eating bad stuff. What do you like? Do you like chicken? Do you like fish? Do you like steak? Do you like pork? Do you like turkey? Eat what you like protein-wise and get enough fiber, 25 grams a day, I would say minimum. And then really prioritize that protein and fiber at every meal. But so many women think avocado toast, almond butter toast, peanut butter and jelly, that's a good meal. I'm like, that's not a good meal. And that's so much fat. And in my experience, I'm not a doctor, nutrition or nutritionist, women don't do well on a ton of fat. They don't get enough protein, eat more protein, and then let's see how you feel. Sorry, sorry.

Philip Pape 53:18

No, it's true. Uh, a lot of that is a vestige of like the paleo and keto world because they pushed a lot of those recipes that end up being super, super high fat. I was in that world for a while myself. Listen, I'm a big, not big. I wish I was big. I'm only I'm an average guy. I'm a guy, so I'm bigger than most women, and I eat about 2600 calories for maintenance right now. And I have 20 grams of peanut butter a day in my oatmeal. That's all the peanut butter I have. And I intentionally include it in there because I like the taste of what it does to my oatmeal. And that's a little over a tablespoon. And I, but I have to measure that out because if you take a big spoonful and dump it in, you'll find you're already past that amount. Peanut butter is so calorie dense. Yeah. And I include that in my oatmeal. My oatmeal is like 325 calories, and like half of that is the peanut butter. Like that's it, it's super dense. And when you mention nuts too, nowadays my thought on nuts is like a nutrient source, like to supplement in little amounts. So, like if you need some selenium or um other nutrients that are found in certain nuts, I think you think of it as like almost like a supplement you're adding in in small sprinkled amounts. Because you're right, if you just grab a handful, that's like 500 calories right there of whatever nut it is, even though they're delicious.

Pam Sherman 54:29

So and so many people think they're healthy, so they're fine. And yes, they are healthy, but not in that quantity.

Philip Pape 54:35

Yeah, because in nature, you'd have to like you'd have to grab them one by one, you'd have to break them open, you have to peel, yeah, you have to take them out of the shell and all that. Yeah, exactly. All right, that was fun, uh, Pam. I think we covered a lot of great questions. Definitely watch your peanut butter, eat for your goals, track, lift weights, do all the fun things. Hopefully, we covered it from some fun angles today. And Pam, I'll just leave with where can people reach out to you so you can continue your conversation here?

Pam Sherman 55:01

I'm on Instagram and TikTok at lowercase pam underscore sherman one. I'm active on those, so you can reach out and, you know, well, message me, be happy to talk to you. I think it's never too late to reach your goals. I would love to help you. I've been there, I've gained weight, I've lost weight, I've helped women for 28 years on their health journey. And there's no quick fixes, but consistency will definitely help you get to your goals. And I'm sorry, peanut butter is not awesome.

Philip Pape 55:28

So if you need help with peanut butter and you're picking up what Pam is putting down today, please definitely reach out to her. I love the community of coaches we have, you know, throughout the industry and on this show. And like it's an abundance mentality here because we can all help the right people if they need it. So reach out to Pam. Pam, thanks so much for doing this. It was kind of a last minute, guys. Like, I invited Pam like last week. We said we need to get together for a fun QA. Let's do it. She said yes. So thank you so much. I appreciate you, and thank you for coming on Wits and Weights.

Pam Sherman 55:55

Always a great time. Thanks, Philip.