Wits & Weights | Smart Science to Build Muscle and Lose Fat

Ep 56: Getting Stronger, Training with Skill, and Debunking Fitness BS with Katie Kollath & Heather Hamilton of Barpath Fitness

March 28, 2023 Episode 56
Ep 56: Getting Stronger, Training with Skill, and Debunking Fitness BS with Katie Kollath & Heather Hamilton of Barpath Fitness
Wits & Weights | Smart Science to Build Muscle and Lose Fat
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Wits & Weights | Smart Science to Build Muscle and Lose Fat
Ep 56: Getting Stronger, Training with Skill, and Debunking Fitness BS with Katie Kollath & Heather Hamilton of Barpath Fitness
Mar 28, 2023 Episode 56

In this episode, Katie Kollath and Heather Hamilton of Barpath Fitness reveal the importance of performing lifts in full range-of-motion, the impact of strength training on productivity and confidence, and their coaching experience. They cut through toxic misinformation in the fitness industry, discuss their overall philosophy on nutrition coaching, and explain how the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast has made Katie and Heather better coaches.

Barpath Fitness is an LGBTQ+ and Women Owned online remote coaching business where Katie and Heather help people get stronger, reduce pain, and look and feel better without shortcuts, gimmicks, or quick fixes. They have been trainers for over 15 years and offer personalized remote fitness and nutrition coaching.

They also host the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast, where they dive into important and often controversial topics in their trademark style to help you sift through toxic misinformation in the fitness industry.

Katie and Heather specialize in helping people get out of a restrictive mindset so they can build muscle, move better, and feel more confident. They don’t advocate for endless cardio or restrictive diets, but instead, quality movement, efficient training methods, and slow habit changes over time to improve quality of life.

You’ll learn all about:

  • Katie and Heather’s fitness journeys and building a remote coaching business
  • Origins of Barpath Fitness and its unique brand
  • Heather’s powerlifting experiences and its influence on the brand
  • Identifying target clients and refining the coaching approach
  • The relationship between mobility and performance
  • Importance of performing lifts in full range-of-motion
  • Skill-based training and resistance training as a skill
  • The impact of strength training on productivity and confidence
  • The coaching experience and client journey with Barpath Fitness
  • Debunking fitness industry BS and toxic misinformation
  • The Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast’s impact on coaching
  • Nutrition philosophy

Episode resources:

  • Download the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast
  • Personalize remote fitness & nutrition coaching - barpathfitness.com
  • Stronger Than Your Boyfriend FB group
  • Watch the video here

📲 Send me a text message!

Support the Show.


🎓 Join Wits & Weights Physique University

👩‍💻 Schedule a FREE nutrition/training audit with Philip

👥 Join our Facebook community for live Q&As & support

✉️ Join the FREE email list with insider strategies and bonus content!

📱 Try MacroFactor for free with code WITSANDWEIGHTS. The only food logging app that adjusts to your metabolism!

🩷 Enjoyed this episode? Share it on social and follow/tag @witsandweights

🤩 Love the podcast? Leave a 5-star review

📞 Send a Q&A voicemail

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Show Notes Transcript

In this episode, Katie Kollath and Heather Hamilton of Barpath Fitness reveal the importance of performing lifts in full range-of-motion, the impact of strength training on productivity and confidence, and their coaching experience. They cut through toxic misinformation in the fitness industry, discuss their overall philosophy on nutrition coaching, and explain how the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast has made Katie and Heather better coaches.

Barpath Fitness is an LGBTQ+ and Women Owned online remote coaching business where Katie and Heather help people get stronger, reduce pain, and look and feel better without shortcuts, gimmicks, or quick fixes. They have been trainers for over 15 years and offer personalized remote fitness and nutrition coaching.

They also host the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast, where they dive into important and often controversial topics in their trademark style to help you sift through toxic misinformation in the fitness industry.

Katie and Heather specialize in helping people get out of a restrictive mindset so they can build muscle, move better, and feel more confident. They don’t advocate for endless cardio or restrictive diets, but instead, quality movement, efficient training methods, and slow habit changes over time to improve quality of life.

You’ll learn all about:

  • Katie and Heather’s fitness journeys and building a remote coaching business
  • Origins of Barpath Fitness and its unique brand
  • Heather’s powerlifting experiences and its influence on the brand
  • Identifying target clients and refining the coaching approach
  • The relationship between mobility and performance
  • Importance of performing lifts in full range-of-motion
  • Skill-based training and resistance training as a skill
  • The impact of strength training on productivity and confidence
  • The coaching experience and client journey with Barpath Fitness
  • Debunking fitness industry BS and toxic misinformation
  • The Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast’s impact on coaching
  • Nutrition philosophy

Episode resources:

  • Download the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast
  • Personalize remote fitness & nutrition coaching - barpathfitness.com
  • Stronger Than Your Boyfriend FB group
  • Watch the video here

📲 Send me a text message!

Support the Show.


🎓 Join Wits & Weights Physique University

👩‍💻 Schedule a FREE nutrition/training audit with Philip

👥 Join our Facebook community for live Q&As & support

✉️ Join the FREE email list with insider strategies and bonus content!

📱 Try MacroFactor for free with code WITSANDWEIGHTS. The only food logging app that adjusts to your metabolism!

🩷 Enjoyed this episode? Share it on social and follow/tag @witsandweights

🤩 Love the podcast? Leave a 5-star review

📞 Send a Q&A voicemail

Philip Pape:

Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast, where we discuss getting strong and healthy with strength training and sustainable nutrition. I'm your host, Philip pape, and in each episode, we examine strategies to help you achieve physical self mastery through a healthy skepticism of the fitness industry, and a commitment to consistent nutrition and training for sustainable results. Welcome to another episode of Wits & Weights. I think this is going to be an epic conversation. I can tell you that already. Just from listening to my guests. On their podcast, they throw down the gauntlet, they help us all see the light. When it comes to the fitness industry. They tell it like it is they dish out a ton of extremely valuable information just to help you get better results in the gym and in life. My guest today are Katie Colette and Heather Hamilton of bar path fitness and the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast. Make sure to subscribe everyone please. Bar path fitness is an LGBTQ plus and women own online remote coaching business where Katie and Heather help people get stronger, reduce pain and look and feel better without shortcuts, gimmicks or quick fixes. They've been trainers for over 15 years and offer personalized remote fitness and nutrition coaching. They also host the Stronger Than Your Boyfriend podcast, where they dive into important and often controversial topics in their trademark style that combines science and spunk. Those are my words, not theirs. To help you sift through toxic misinformation in the fitness industry. I love that we should use that alliteration. Thank you got it, though you got it. So Katie and Heather specialize in helping people get out of a restrictive mindset so they can build muscle move better and feel more confident. They don't advocate for endless cardio or restrictive diets. But instead quality movement, efficient training methods and slow habit changes over time to improve quality of life. Katie and Heather after that long but deserved intro. I'm looking forward to this. And I'm super excited to have you on the show.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, thank you. Well, we're really excited to be here. And now I feel really good. But that super long intro. Yes. Thank you. Competence. So

Philip Pape:

awesome. No good. And I'm going to try to match your energy to I love it. So yeah, yeah, let's get started the top of your story. You've been trainers for over 15 years, not to mention powerlifting Olympic lifting fitness educators. And you've built what looks to be a high impact remote coaching business. So just tell us how you got into fitness and turn that into careers?

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, well, I guess I'll start I think I started as a personal trainer in college. And it wasn't even the route that I was wanting to go. I just kind of fell in love with it. And then I went on to get my master's degree in physiology. And I realized that I didn't really want to work in like the lab setting I was more into the the one on one personal time with people. So once I moved back to Chicago from grad school, I pretty much dove in, you know, head on with in person personal training. And that's how I built my experience as a trainer. And you know, just kind of went from there. And I know how there will we'll probably talk a little bit about, you know, how we got into like building this this business but together, but that's kind of my trajectory. It wasn't like, yeah, I love fitness. And I've always wanted to do this. It was like kind of a quick pivot once I was in college, but yeah, kind of just fell in love with it from college on so yeah, yeah.

Heather Hamilton:

Yeah, my story is, I guess it starts in kind of in high school, I never played sports. I was not a great athlete, as a kid. And I told this whole story on our podcast, I think in the beginning and one of our like, beginning episodes, so I'll keep it short. But basically, I had dropped out of high school when I was about 16. Just got in with the wrong crowd wasn't really doing too well. And then started doing a choir show choir actually, which is like Broadway kind of, and it knows anything about that there's singing and dancing, there's a lot of diaphragmatic breathing, there's movement, there's a lot of things that you have to be like somewhat fit for. So I decided to kind of really lean into that. And that's when I started working out and I ended up going back to school or both getting my GED. Going back to school, getting my bachelor's and my master's in Applied Health Science. From there, I started working at universities. So I was the director of fitness will started as a coordinator worked my way up to Director at five different universities throughout the United States. One of them is where I met Katie Yeah, I was her boss for a very short amount of time. We were not

Katie Kollath:

we were not dating,

Heather Hamilton:

dating. That's how we met. And yeah, after that, I just kind of we we started our brand back in and what was it? 2016 teen? Yeah. And we've also we've always kind of worked together. So we are married now. But we have worked from a university to a gym we work together to starting this business. So yeah,

Katie Kollath:

it's kind of just worked out that way. I wouldn't always recommend working with our spouse or partner or coaching them right. Well as far as like ours strengths and weaknesses and in business. So

Philip Pape:

yeah, you guys definitely seem to click and I can hear that. So it's really cool to hear that story. I mean, you both came from completely different paths, but then you kept going. Yeah, I did want to ask about the brand itself that why did you start bar path fitness specifically, you know, the thing that sparked your desire to make that impact with remote coaching, especially because I know you have all these different backgrounds, and you could have gone different directions. I think you've really impressively fused your personality and your brand as well.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, well, thank you for that. We. So in 2016, back, when we started it, we initially just started it as a blog, because we were we just wanted to start putting information out there. Because I remember before we were, you know, when we were just friends, we had talked about potentially opening a gym one day, so we kind of always had this idea of going into business together. And we realized, okay, it's a, you know, shit ton of money to start a gym. And there's a lot of startup costs that come come with that. So we were like, Okay, well, what if we just start with with a blog and like, see what goes from there, because we were both working at a big box gym in Chicago at the time. So there was kind of a, you know, a little clause there, you couldn't really go out on your own yet. So we just really started diving into the research research, we wrote blogs on it, and mostly because from what I was seeing, and I was still kind of a green trainer, but I realized some basic principles that help people and what I was seeing from other trainers and clients that I, you know, I was getting in the gym, and what they thought about fitness, it was just so wrong, and so often not what they needed. And I was like, why is this just so prevalent in the fitness industry? Why are they having them do these crazy workouts that aren't getting the results. So we wanted to just we wanted to start somewhere. And we started writing, and it's somewhat of our both of our strong suits. I mean, I started chi edits, and you know, we finish it, but we also wanted to apply like some research to and, you know, we tried to get a little mesh of both, like, you know, applying it to the average person and while incorporating the research. So we started there. So

Heather Hamilton:

I think that's a good point to bring up, too. I think one of the things we noticed when we first built this brand is that there weren't a lot of women in the space, there weren't a lot of LGBTQ plus women in this space. And the women that are in this space, typically, it's almost like they need to be, you know, top of the line, like you've got to either have all of these crazy records or to have your PhD, you have to have apps or apps. Absolutely, yeah, we wanted to show that, you know, you can there's a mixture of, you know, evidence based, you know, training, and then there's, there's experience, and when you combine those two things like, Wow, you really get something great. And we want it to be a couple of women, specifically LGBTQ plus women in the space.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, yeah, it was, um, it definitely was one of our missions. Because that I mean, that obviously was a big part of it, like I would, I think I was the only female trainer at one point at this big box gym. Yeah. And it was very, it was a rough environment to get started in. Like, I don't think a lot of clients even wanted to train with me at first until I convinced them to in my own way, right, like, you know, producing some results, but not saying I was the best trainer when I started, but it was like I was doing, I don't know, some different, a different style of training, and most of the trainers in there, like I wasn't just doing, you know, box jumps to burpees. And all this bullshit that people do just to make their clients sweat, it was like, I'm gonna coach you through the process, I'm gonna actually teach you why I'm doing what I'm doing. Like, you're gonna ask questions, and I'm gonna have answers. And if I don't, I'm gonna refer you to someone who does. So yeah,

Philip Pape:

I love all of that. There's, there's a lot to unpack. But I want to cover a few things. I mean, you know, you hear a lot of personal trainers that come through as personal trainers, and they kind of build from there and you you took the route of with the blog, you know, the long form content, which you still do today with your podcast, kind of allowed you to dig in and almost sounds like you then also learn a lot in the process of doing the research and finding the evidence that then combined with what you were doing, combined with your niche or your your audience that wasn't served, you know, women, LGBTQ women, et cetera. You mentioned I think, Heather, you mentioned the evidence based training plus experience. And I think a lot of times people don't give enough credit to the anecdotes from years and years of experience you have working with clients. Right. And that is evidence to write evidence. So yeah, yeah.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, it's, it's, well, it's, it's what we preach a lot, because there is the yeah, there's research studies, but you I mean, we've all read research studies before, right? Like, you can pretty much find any to support your point of view, if you really, really wanted to, but there's also like, the 10 years that I've been training now, every individual person is different and it's like, Okay, this one thing might not apply to this this person. So it's like you have to be able to adapt and experience is what makes the trainer in. Everyone needs to start somewhere. That's why I was saying like, I wasn't the best trainer when I started, but I had some solid foundations, but I obviously I've learned a ton and it's like the more Are you go in this industry, the more you realize you don't know. And that's the most exciting part. Because you just have this so much capacity to learn as you're coaching clients to like you might believe one thing and this one thing might have worked for so many clients over the years, then you get this one client who doesn't work for it. And you're you're for and your your paradigm is just kind of shattered. And you're like, alright, well, back to the drawing board. Like, let's figure it out. So yeah, well, that sounds like what a good coach does is make it individualized like that. And you have 99 people that fit the normal curve. And then the other one comes along, like strange outlier, and that's gonna teach you.

Philip Pape:

Cool. So yeah. Now, whether you're an elite level power lifter, right, USPA I know, I saw a new website. So I'm gonna pull stuff from there. Oh, by the way, what other common was for people listening? The website says, like, don't continue if you want fast six pack abs. You had mentioned? Right? Because it's a process. But yeah, totally. So compete. powerlifting. Right. So actually, my very first coaching client as a nutrition coach was also a power lifter with the kinetic USPA. So it's kind of cool. And how was competing helped influence your brand, your mission, your coaching style?

Heather Hamilton:

Yeah. So I think like when we first met, I know Katie was really into like, bodybuilding back then. And I must have just been getting into powerlifting. At that time. Yeah, we ended up doing our first meet together, actually, which was really cool. And we did a bunch of meats after that together. And then I went on and continue to compete in powerlifting, for years. And, yeah, I think that the biggest thing for us was, I suppose the empowerment that you feel when doing these, like full range of motion, heavy compound lifts, right? So it's not necessarily about the sport itself, as much as it is that you those, you know, the squat bench and the deadlift, while those aren't the, you know, the only three moves there three very good compound lifts. And when you can, you know, deadlift, two, three times your body weight, it's even one times your body weight sometimes, you know, it's just it's so empowering, especially for women, especially for women. Yeah. And so that was, I think, something that really just kind of stuck with us and has stuck with us throughout the brand. And it's kind of where we came up with the name at first, we were very barbell focused. So that's kind of our path, a portion of it. And that continued when Katie got more into Olympic lifting, and we both became Olympic lifting coaches. And yeah, but I think I think that whole concept just kind of stuck with our brand.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, it definitely it set the foundation for bar path just because that that is the reason why I had some solid foundations going into my training personal training career because I, you know, who, who, I don't know what I would have done, if I hadn't learned about like squatting deadlifting the importance of these bigger compound movements, maybe I would have been that trainer is just making you jump around doing burpees and making, right but I had some solid foundations that powerlifting taught me and I will be forever grateful for that experience. And I totally loved competing and it was super fun. But you know, you can go to the other extreme with any sport, any sport. And for me, it just kind of got like to be too much. That's why and I just kind of get I have workout add sometimes. So i That's why I went from powerlifting to Olympic lifting, but it was really cool. Because, like I said, when we first met, I was kind of into that bodybuilding. Like, I'm just gonna like to do like, you know, body parts split and whatever. And this was really cool because it shifted the focus from aesthetics, which most people have onto like, I want to get strong as fuck like, and it was really cool because now I'm like eating to fuel my body like I need to eat to fuel this performance if I want to do well in the meat and I just felt better overall. And I was like, wow, this is really cool. And I didn't get fat like I thought I would like back then right like moment eat more and I'm just gonna get fat. Like but no, it happened and I just got strong and looks better and yeah, it just it set the set the foundation for the brand. And that's why we're we want to help you help women especially get strong as shit. So yeah,

Philip Pape:

I love that, Katie, I love it so much. Everybody listening should really listen to this episode and hear what you're saying. Because I hear the same thing, especially and I have women clients who they have to strain train, like, that's one of my prerequisites for working with me as a nutrition coach. And it always switches from a focus on the scale eventually to their lifts. And it's just a great transformation to see. And then you're right, it leads to the other things building and adding an including and not like restricting and cutting yourself down. Such such a great message. So yeah,

Katie Kollath:

yeah, that is, that's our biggest message is we always want to add in things to people's lives because women especially they go into fitness because usually they want to look a certain way. And they're just like, I have to restrict I have to, you know, restrict my time so that it's only in the gym so I can see there's these results that I want but really it's coaching them and teaching them no you don't have to do that you can add these things look really good, feel really good, which is the most important and that's why we always like yeah, nutrition is so important. Like we talked about that all the time, but man strength training is just as important like it. I know people, you know, in the fitness industry, people are like, you know, it's 80% diet and 20% workout. I think that's bullshit. I think it's probably more so the resistance training and the strength training, because you can get away with a lot of shit when you when you do some resistance training, like obviously, even eating enough protein and calories is important, but it's like, man, people really overlook that aspect. Like, yeah, if your nutrition is on point, but you're doing a bunch of cardio training, like you're still not gonna get the body composition you want. And we all know the muscle. Yeah, we all know that's what women are looking for whether they think it's toning, whether they think it's whatever, getting lean and long muscles, but it's no, you have to strike right to build the muscle, because that's what they mean. So, see, this

Philip Pape:

is why I want to do on the show, because in a way that I can't. And also I can't talk to women that way, necessarily. I wish I could do a one on one, but not. Oh, my God, that's that's awesome. I mean, I basically agree 1,000%. With, with what you're saying, and let's pick out some of those messages. One is that the training allows you to have more resilience and flexibility and everything else. Right. That's a huge message. Right? The other is, it's not all about diet. People who need to lose fat, probably need to fix their diet. But if you're not training, what are you going to do? You're just gonna lose muscle in the process. Exactly. So yeah, so every part of the step along the way, training has to be there. Yeah, I've even heard people talk about protein, like protein is important. But without the training signal, it doesn't do a lot for you would Yeah.

Katie Kollath:

I mean, you can preserve some muscle if you're not training, but like, I'd rather see people eat protein than not either way. But yeah, like, if you're not sending the stimulus to your body to get stronger. Will it build muscle, then? Yeah, I mean, there's not really a I mean, there's a point always, I shouldn't say that. But it's like, they go hand in hand and you can't, you know, get the results you're looking for without both of them. So, yeah.

Philip Pape:

Now from one coach to another, I like to appear behind the curtain with your process a little bit. You know, I am curious about the intake and all that. But I really want to talk about when you decided who you could serve and how you can help them. You sort of already talked about that. It's it became fairly clear. Maybe you were ahead of the curve back you said 2016 timeframe? Was it? Was it a more gradual process? Or did it? Did you kind of have to weed out the non ideal client over time? And now Now you've gotten that clarity?

Katie Kollath:

Oh, my God, that was a process. Okay, yeah, they will kill me. No, no. We know, it has been a process. Because when you're starting out with in person training, you kind of just take whoever, right? So me, she would always get so frustrated, because I'm like, I don't want to niche down. I want to help everyone. Like, yeah,

Unknown:

I'm like a marketing person. So I understand that.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, so if you're working at a big box gym in Chicago, you're gonna get any and every one, right. I mean, there's like market conditions, like where your neighborhood is at, like you might get what type of person then you know, another but, but it's foot traffic. Exactly. So that wasn't something I ever thought about. Most personal training clients are women. So that's one of the more you know, prevalent type of person that you see, right is a woman. So that's why we're the basic foundation is like, Okay, we have like this powerlifting background, we know this is important, like the strength training aspect. And we we do serve a lot of women. Okay, that's kind of like, bare minimum. But then along the way, it's just like, I think you should talk about this as far as like the marketing piece, because it's, it's really important for if you want to build an online business, you have to have a niche, like, you can't just be like, I serve everyone, like, Yes, I can. But also you have to market to a certain person. So I feel like you should.

Unknown:

Totally I think it really shifted when we moved from Chicago to Colorado in 2019. So this was right before the pandemic, actually, yeah. Because we were starting to do some online things to supplement our income. We knew that we didn't want to do the, you know, 4am, client noon client and 7pm Client forever. No. So we, we wanted to have something online as well, hence, the blog and all that. But really, in 2019, when we moved across the country, together, we brought some people with us online. And that started kind of really the online portion of our brand. We have done some, you know, Excel, document training and things like that. But we didn't start using apps and all that jazz until we moved out here. And it just so happened it was about a year before the pandemic hit. Yeah, so the timing was I mean, unfortunately, it was good. Yeah. Not perfect. But yeah, it worked out well. And we even were able to so I since I've always worked at universities, I've always been a partner with various certification programs. So I was at the time I was a partner with ace. And I was doing I was teaching the ACE certification. So in my role at universities, I would train personal trainers. And so because I was a partner with them, we were able to create a course for other trainers, teaching them how to move their business online. So during the pandemic, that's one of the things that we did we don't do that anymore, just because now it's it's everywhere. But at the time, we were kind of able to jump on that Um, but anyway, back to the point of niching. Yeah, that's kind of when we really started honing in on our message a little bit more. And we really were attracting the people, mostly because of the way Katy talks.

Philip Pape:

That's what it's all about, it's you, you're the product,

Unknown:

you're gonna turn some people off, and that's okay. And then you're gonna attract people that are really, really excited about what you represent. And we've always just been so value driven, like, we have always stood by our values and been very authentic. Like, we've never ever honestly, we've never partnered with like, a crazy supplement company or taken on any sponsorships, or anything that we didn't believe in. Yeah. And so, you know, sometimes that's hard to get a business off the ground. So that's why it took a long time. But now I'm very, very proud of it like, yeah, I feel really good about where we're at and what we've done and how we built it authentically. Yeah.

Philip Pape:

I mean, just listening to your podcast, I could envision that the audience you know, and the people that are going to be attracted, you know, so it's so clear that, you know, like you said, you filter out people that just aren't gonna get it or want to work with you. Or maybe they'll get offended by how you talk or whatever it is, yeah. And you're gonna attract who you are. And that's, that's the differentiator, right? Because anybody can do the same type of programming and, you know, do mobility and do fall ROM and all this other stuff, but you are you are. So I will

Katie Kollath:

say, I feel like people might be a little scared of me. I very much, am not like, I'm not gonna yell at you. If you're my client. Like, sometimes there is tough love. And honestly, that depends on the person to like, I have a couple of clients who they're like, I need you to just yell at me. And I'm like, to be sure, yeah, we respond really well to that. And I'm like, okay, and I have no problem doing that. But it's like, I'm not going to the way I talk on the podcast probably comes off like, kind of an asshole, but I can be, but I'm not. Most of the time,

Unknown:

leads with a lot of empathy. And

Philip Pape:

you can hear that, yeah, the empathy. No, no, you really can you can hear the heart behind it. So I mean, totally. And I get it as entertainment. You know, I was we were joking before we even recorded like, I'm not your demographic at all. But I still love the show, because it's so entertaining. And that's, I love that. Yeah, it's like a form of Intel as a coach, of course, you know, the Insight is someone else's mind. But you you cover the topics that need to be covered with a little bit of, like I said, What a spunk or SAS or whatever. It's entertaining. And it's a it's two people, which is kind of cool, too, because I've never actually interviewed two people on a podcast. So it's kind of interesting again,

Katie Kollath:

oh, this is good for you.

Philip Pape:

You know, so it's very cool. All right. So why don't we get into a little bit of the the actual programming or the lifting side, which I like to dive in sometimes? Two things. One is the mobility approach to performance, you know, combining mobility with and leading that into strength. But then the other side is the full ROM, which I think there's a good segue between the two. Yeah, mainly, from the perspective, at least in my opinion, I hear a lot of times people say, Well, I have an issue with mobility, or I have bad knees, or I have whatever, and I can't squat to depth as a result. And I think we have it backward. I think it's you need to work toward depth with whatever lets you get there. And that gets you stronger in that full range, and then also improves mobility. But that's just me. What is your take on that?

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, so it this is where like the individualization of a program is so important, because like you said, you can get one client who's coming to you with knee pain, and that's preventing them from squatting, you know, with a full range of motion, you might someone have someone else who has shoulder pain, and we have a lot of weakness in a you know, scapula area. So you have to prioritize those weaknesses and limitations that the person has, right. So that's why any, any program that you find on the internet is always going to be inferior to a personal training program. But obviously, that's not feasible for everyone. But I just want to illustrate the importance of that because your coach, if they're a good coach, they're going to, they're going to make that the utmost priority in their program, like keeping you out of pain and allowing you to work through a full range of motion is the absolute key to seeing success with your strength gains, your muscle gains, mobility gains, all of that, right. So with the mobility aspect, it's hard to the approach that I take is, okay, let's just say it's an it's a, your average person who has, maybe they have some, some work to do, right, the most common issues I see are weak hips, probably weak hamstrings, which potentially causes some knee issues, these are a lot of clients that I have. So we're going to be doing a lot of mobility work with that. And what I've found over the years is that if I program a warm up, they're never going to do it. So what I do is I sneak it into their program, so I create their warmup for them. So the approach I take is, okay, I'm gonna program let's just say the first few exercises, they're going to be more mobility focus exercises to prime them for whatever compound we're doing for the day. So and that obviously depends on the person if they're doing a full body workout, a more like upper body or lower body day or whatever it is. I'm going to look at the person where are their limitations, what do we need to work on? And I'm going to prioritize that at the beginning of the workout because not only there are they getting warmed up for the components, but we're making that the The thing that their body like is first doing in their workout. So it's going to be important, right and they're fresh doing it. So that that's one way especially, I will do that if the person is really having some issues, like if they can't get to whatever full range of motion we're trying to achieve, or if they are in pain, like that's going to be the main priority. And other ways I put it, put it at the end and what they're all They're still going to be exercises in the actual workout because mobility is strength training, right. So I think of mobility, and strength training, or mobility of a mobility exercise and more of a strength focused exercise, kind of like on a sliding scale, right. So there's more of like on the mobility, and there's more like your passive stretches right? In the middle. There's something like, so we love we've talked about a lot on our podcast, horse stance squat, which are probably new for people, but it's essentially just like a wider stance squat, which with your toes forward, and we're really working your, your hip strength, right, your quads strength, but we're also opening up your hips as well. So it's a really good hip in adductor mobility drill, too. So that's kind of somewhere in the middle for me, like you can gain a lot of strength. And that can apply to a movement, like a squat, or any of your lower body compound lifts. And it just kind of depends on like, where the person is at, like, I wish I could give you like a more straight on answer. But sometimes I'm doing mobility work at the beginning and the end of a workout for people, sometimes I'm throwing it in as just a warm up. So it's, it's so nuanced, but it's so important. Because once once you do it, and once you're, you're able to train through a full range of motion, it's crazy, the results, you're gonna get in just illustrating that with people who I've, let's say they can't get a full squat, for example, they're barely hitting parallel. And maybe we're doing barbell back squats, and I get them to take the weight off. And sometimes even like, I don't want to say, regress them, but bring them back to like a goblet squat, where they're the the weight is front loaded. So it's a little bit easier for them to get deeper because you have that counterbalance, kind of acting in the front of you. So they're able to sink deeper, and then their strength improves significantly and sort of their muscle because that's just to illustrate the power of training full through a full range of motion. So that's why mobility work is so important. Yeah. And I think that we have to remember that mobility and stability go hand in hand, right? So a lot of people think they have a mobility issue. Yeah, when in reality, they have a stability issue or a strength in a specific range of motion issue, right. And so that is kind of where we start with everything, really, we look at your range of motion. And we know the ideal range of motion for your body, because it's different for everyone, right, but we can see it in your biomechanics. And then you know, we do some various tests and assessment and assessments. And we figure out where those weaknesses lie. And a lot of times, like Katie said, a lot of times it's hip weakness. People are like, Oh, my hips are tight. No, your hips are actually weak. A lot of times, yeah, or stability in their feet, right? Yeah, could be any of those things. Because one of the things that I do, and I know we're kind of honing in on the squats, but I see this a lot is, you know, maybe I'm doing an assessment with someone and they're barely hitting parallel. And then I'll have them hold on to like a pole or something. And I'm like, just sit in the bottom of a squat, and they can do it. I'm like, see your mobility is there because you lack the stability and the strength to do it. So we just need to work on that. So that's why it's so yeah, it's so nuanced. And it just totally dependent on the person. So yeah.

Philip Pape:

Hey, this is Philip Pape. And if you feel like you've put in effort to improve your health and fitness, but aren't getting results, I invite you to apply for a one on one coaching to make real progress and get the body you desire. We'll work together to figure out what's missing, so you can look better, perform better and feel better. Just go to wits & weights.com/coaching, to learn about my program and apply today. Now back to the episode. Cool. Yeah, we're gonna go with this, because I love it a lot. It's a lot, but it's, but it makes a ton of sense. I mean, how do you do this remotely? with clients? Oh,

Katie Kollath:

yeah. Great question. That is a really good question. So man, I wish I had like this really cool way that I could tell you, which could potentially help a person, you know, be an online coach, but really, it's just years of experience watching people and I'm in the years of experience watching people in person is key. And that's what I think is the most important thing is to get an experienced in person because you have to notice you have to learn on the fly, like to adjust the next set of needed or give them a cue in real time. So if I'm watching someone on a video, I you know, I'll analyze their set their a watch their whole video, right? If I'm noticing, noticing something, and sometimes I'm watching it twice, like, I can't figure this out, I can't pinpoint it. But it's more of just the longer that you train or you coach a person, the better you get to know how they move. And it's just the over time I just know, like I can, it just isn't another example. I can tell when people could do more weight to like, I can notice that pretty well in person, but I can see that on video too. Like, you know your first set looks similar to your last or your first rep look similar to your last rep we're going to add weight so it's the same thing with mobility like I can see someone's range of motion. And I can, you know, if their cameras good, like I can see like, like the quality of like where where they're at, you know, especially with different angles, it's sometimes hard with that, but I'll usually coach them like, can you get like more of a front view? Can you get a side view so I could see this. So it's less like real time in person, like, let's fix for the next set. It's more of like, okay, I want to work on this, this and this, watch this video before the next time you do this workout and apply it to the next time you do it. So yeah,

Philip Pape:

yeah. And that and that approach. It's, it's great, because I think you're even giving the client a little bit more independence, because they have to take everything totally synthesizing their brain and then apply it. It kind of sets them up for even more success. Long term. At least it seems that way. That's a

Katie Kollath:

good point, Philip. Like, I didn't even think of that. Like, it's really Yeah, it is really cool. Because a lot of the people they're a little nervous with, like taking videos and going into workouts are going to do the workouts on their own. And it doesn't power people because over like after a few weeks, they're like, Yeah, I got this like going to the gym like yeah, it's not a big deal anymore. So yeah, that's a really good point.

Philip Pape:

Yeah, yeah. Added to marketing, marketing material. No, that's great. And the thing about seeing people in person is key. I definitely have heard trainers talk about that. Like, actually, I'm at my current coach for training is an online coach, who it's more in a club setting, because I don't need the one on one anymore. But he he was a trainer in person for years, you know, and he still has a club. So yeah, huge. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It really? What about the skill based training? I think that's a term you've used skill based training, or resistance training as a skill. What do you mean by that? Yeah,

Katie Kollath:

yeah, so all of the movements that you do when you're doing training or skills, right, obviously, they're gonna get you stronger and help you build muscle, but it's more of the mindset around it. So when people work out, they most people work out because they have some aesthetic goal, right. And that takes a long time. And you don't get objective feedback, really, even when you are reaching these goals. And maybe someone looking looking at you and maybe looking at your before and after picture, for example, and they can objectively see a difference, but you personally might not, because that's just how our brains are wired, right. So when you, when you think of your movements as skills that that to me, you're going in, you're practicing these foundational movement patterns that every human should do, and you're practicing them and you're getting, you're becoming essentially an expert at them, the more you do them, but when your mentality shifts to, I'm gonna try to achieve this goal or this skill in the gym, it completely changed your mind changes your mindset around training, because now every workout, you basically checked off a box, you know, as far as like, alright, I put in my work for the day or for the week, in along the lines of achieving this goal, even if even if it's just like we're talking about getting a full range of motion your squat, right. So that could be the skill you're working towards. Or like, we coach a lot of women to do pull ups like that, like that is more objective, and it's really empowering over, I want to look a certain way, because you're not going to see that after every workout, you might have the workout where you get your first pull up, and that's fucking exciting. Like, it's really awesome. And you have that objectively it happened, right? So and it keeps people coming back once we can get your mindset to, okay, like, we're gonna go to the gym, and I'm gonna achieve these skills for the day, I'm gonna do this work, I'm going to you know, try to apply whatever intensity I need to. And then okay, I've, I've accomplished something for the day versus I'm going to work out because I want to get six pack abs. Yeah, I'm gonna be a little discouraged, because I didn't get it in this workout, which people know, but like on paper, or people know, on paper, but like in their minds, like they want those quick results right away. So

Unknown:

yeah, and I think I think it's interesting, because if you look at the research behind adult learning, and you look at the research behind, like, when we learn things, what happens in our brains, it's amazing. And so we like to add that to fitness as well, right? Because you're getting not just more benefit, but it's also something's going to keep you coming back and keep you accountable and keep you showing up every time as you learn something you map. It's mastery, right? It's skill mastery. Yeah. Even if it's just the littlest thing, it's still mastering a skill and that does something very powerful. Especially you know, when it comes to like having competence over your own like body

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, and it's, it's just fun when the when the side effects of training these skills is that you get stronger, and you tend to look better in your body composition starts to get better. But that's just, that is just a nice side effect that when you're focused on achieving these skills in the gym, you're not so obsessed with the aesthetic aspect. And when it happens, you're like, oh, shit, like, I wasn't even worried about it. And it happens. And I

Unknown:

think one of the hard parts about this because we talk about this a lot, but when it comes to like research on this, the interesting thing is that a lot of research when it comes in, like at least previous research in strength, and fitness has been on like machines, right? Because it's the easiest thing. So they're putting people on these machines, and then they're not getting that skill aspect. So I'm very interested in More and more of the research coming out of people actually doing like skill based movements like squats or deadlifts. Yeah, yeah.

Philip Pape:

I love this. I love your passion for this too. But the whole thing about small wins, quick wins, keeping people coming back. And that's what it's all about. And haven't you heard? Or do you find that your clients, even their narrative and their language changes over time from, like you said, a mindset shift from the beginning to maybe they're even the ones seeking some of these gains that they never thought they would ask for. Right?

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Like, just sometimes the one thing I focus on with people is just getting enough protein in. And I've had a few clients recently where we've really honed in on that, and they're consistently hitting their protein, and they're like, holy shit, I have never felt stronger than I have right now. And I'm like, Isn't that awesome? Isn't that really cool that you really didn't change anything else besides getting enough protein, and now look at you like, now you're, you know, maybe your PR and on your squats or whatever, but it's like, their, their mindset has shifted to like, I just want to like crush my training. And that's really cool to see. Because most people when they come to you, or you as in like any trainer anywhere, like, they want to lose weight, like that's the number one goal that people see, right? Or they want to get thrown in those weight. And it's just like, Okay, I've learned to not scoff at that. Because that's not how you, that's how you lose people really quickly. But over time, with coaching with, you know, some coaching and a lot of like, education for them, it slowly starts to like, click in their brains. And that's the really cool part. And that's the most fun part. Because it's like, now it's going to be part of their life, forever, forever. It's not just like, I have a wedding in six months, and I want to look this way. But now it's like, Oh, I feel really good doing this. And I want to continue doing this for life. So that's a revelation.

Philip Pape:

Yeah, yeah. And so related to that, right, we talked a little bit about how strength training can then improve other things, right? Productivity, confidence, capability, performance, how you feel, not focusing on the scale, not focusing on food, or accept as fuel, you know, in a positive way. I think one of you maybe it was you, Heather, because you're more into the research. Did an eight week university program I think with women employees, I did. Yeah, we found some results, right. Can you tell us about that?

Heather Hamilton:

Yeah, totally. So one of the universities I worked at, I did a little bit of a, okay, this was not like IRB approved or anything. So I actually do a whole resource project. But I did collect some data. And it was really interesting. And so what I did was I took a group of women and I created basically an eight week program, and it was resistance training twice, twice a week as a community. And we tested their one rep max, or excuse me, not their one rep max, their, I think it was their five rep max, actually, because at this point, some of them were not trained. So I would never test their one rep max right away. So we did like a five rep max test in the beginning of I think it was overhead press deadlift, there may have been a squat in there as well. And then, at the end of the eight weeks, we tested it again. But the other thing that we did alongside this was we did a survey, and we asked about, we asked them to self report how they felt in their jobs. So what was their confidence? Public speaking in their job when they had to speak in front of someone? What was their confidence, asking for a raise if they felt like they deserved one? How do they feel connected to their community at work? What was their productivity like? Questions like that, and the cool thing was, after the eight week program, not only did every single person obviously increase their five rep max for all their lifts, they also increase their confidence, they increase their productivity, and it was just really, really cool. And they also built community because we did it as a group, which was really neat.

Philip Pape:

Awesome. Yeah. It's great to see the science and I mean, you know, from anecdotally, but it's really cool to just test it longitudinally like that in a short timeframe. Nice. Yeah. So yeah, I want to I want to ask you about your podcast. Okay. So Stronger Than Your Boyfriend, great name. Great podcast. And tagline. Yeah, right. It's good. That actually, you know, it's funny because I'm doing a speech for Toastmasters speaking in public speaking. Oh, wow. I kind of stole your title a little bit. Go my speech, and I called it stronger than her boyfriend. Implying that I want to be stronger than my daughter's wife when she gets older. But

Katie Kollath:

she should be stronger than her if she

Philip Pape:

did that. Yes. That's fine with me. Yeah. So the tagline is helping you navigate the BS and toxic misinformation in the fitness industry one episode at a time. And this is just my opinion, but I feel like we're kindred spirits when it comes to cutting through the insanity. Right? Yeah. The social algorithms, the stunts that you see online, the misleading dangerous, let's call it dangerous information. Yeah, usually for a quick buck or two cell Sunday. Yeah. So my question is, what is the most BS EBS, or, like radioactively toxic nonsense that you've seen?

Katie Kollath:

Oh my God, I feel like we could do a whole hour,

Philip Pape:

just pick the top three now,

Katie Kollath:

it's man, a lot of it is going to relate to the fitness industry messaging towards women. And the and I know that slowly changing and that's why we talked about in the beginning, that's part of the reason why we started our brand, but it's just the we're do a bunch of cardio lose weight, long, lean muscles, toning, like all of that is not a thing. And the I guess it's it's just a lot of the Okay, eat less move more that in and of itself can work for some people. But for most people who are training and they've tried and tried so many things, it doesn't work for them. So that's why we're all about adding in, we're adding strength training, and we're adding protein and we're adding calories in and that I feel like is kind of the overarching, toxic is, I don't know that there's so many like toxic little nuggets you find here and there. And you can go on Instagram right now and get like a bunch,

Philip Pape:

you can just go do that, though. Because then your algorithms get to just get your stuff

Katie Kollath:

or whatever you're looking at. But yeah, it's just, that's why we've kind of built our brand and our target audience around that and why we decided to really do the podcast so we can talk about it long form and not try to like do these Instagram reels where people have you know, 15 second intentions, attention span, right? So it's like, how can we have to talk this through? And that's what we, you know, do give a little bit of research to try to help back up our claims. But it's more of like, Let's talk this through because that like eating less, moving more isn't the way and it's it's not going to be sustainable long term. So

Heather Hamilton:

yeah, I think I mean, I think you nailed it.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah. Man. I mean, I know you said one. But it's like, the, what I feel like I'm seeing right now, probably mostly on social media is like the, we're either going to cut out all vegetables, we're going to cut out all meat, we're going to cut out all our jobs, we're going to just cut, cut, cut, because this way is the this way or the highway. And I just think that is so toxic for people, because everyone's on social media in there. If you're someone into fitness, this shirt is going to pop up on your feed because of the algorithms. And you're going to learn that vegetables are bad for you. Because they have I don't know, some

Philip Pape:

whatever toxic effects on your diets or something. Yeah, well, we

Katie Kollath:

are we serious right now, it's hard enough to get people to eat whole natural foods. And now you're telling them to not eat vegetables, like, it's just, it's really that shit. I really just want to caution people to take with a grain of salt and do your due diligence. And like, if you really want to try a certain diet or whatever, that's fine, but do your research and like maybe talk to a professional who can maybe coach you through it. But that is the bullshit that I'm seeing right now. Because, like the I feel like this whole, like primal movement is like on Instagram right now. And it's like, what we're angry like, whatever.

Philip Pape:

Yeah, like, yes.

Katie Kollath:

We Yeah, let's eat, you know, a whole fucking raw liver and like, just be okay. Like, no. Like, like, let's have a more like balanced approach, like, Yes, try to eat whole foods as much as you can. But like, we also live in 2023. And there's cake and ice cream. And that's fun to eat sometimes. But as long as that's not, you know, the majority of your diet, it's going to be okay, you're not going to die like, or you're not going to just, you know, wipe all the things you've been working towards. Right. So, yeah, I

Heather Hamilton:

think it's interesting because it has changed over the years, right? Because I think back in like 2013 or 2014. When we did that presentation, remember that we did a collegiate present a university presentation on fitness myths. Yeah. And back then I think it was, you know, way different than what's prevalent today.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah,

Heather Hamilton:

I mean, I think your question is valid, but I feel like you could ask us over different Yeah.

Katie Kollath:

We should do this podcast next year and see what we've

Philip Pape:

asked the same question. So here's the thing. On your most recent episode, you had a q&a and one of those was about seed oils, right? And I really appreciated your treatment of that because I'm fully in alignment. As a nutrition coach, nothing's off pretty much nothing's off the table. Other than maybe like trans fats or something in a very tiny corner. But even the way you treated seed oils was like this healthy skepticism or you said look, the evidence is equivocal, we don't quite know. Maybe don't take the chance and just don't cook with it on your own. But you're gonna go out to eat and you're gonna maybe get fat usually fine. It's gonna sneak in. But like, let's not you know, go panic about it. Yeah, start and start going the opposite direction saying is just going to kill you.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah, and that should be your approach to your whole like, nutritional philosophy, right? Like, it's like, make the food at home that you cook like whole natural foods. And then when inevitably you go on vacation or you go out to dinner, like, don't stress about it, because you've been doing well like the majority of the time, so one meal is gonna kill you. One time you eat vegetable oils isn't gonna kill you. Like, I feel like that's a really big trend right now too. It's like this, all or nothing. Oils are gonna kill you. And it's like, where there is actually no A meta analysis that show that but also, I'm not going to take a chance because I know olive oil is really healthy for you have caught oil, coconut oil, like even butter in small quantities, whatever. Like, I just I think that's a little bit more nutritious personally,

Heather Hamilton:

if you see the way that fuels are made, you're like, yeah,

Katie Kollath:

so you don't take the chance. But like my family, my family was in town and we went out to dinner a few times, it was stressing and like, Hey, can you cook this and butter it? Like, please don't like touch my food with your seed oils? And no, I'm not gonna you're not gonna be weird. Yeah, not gonna be weird or do that. You know, and it's like, it's, it's okay, you're not gonna die. Like, I remember reading some thing. And I don't even know if this is true. They were like, yeah, if you eat vegetable oil, it stays in your system for two years. And it's just like, carcinogenic. And I'm like, why are we saying this? Why I feel like probably the other things that you're doing or not doing are probably more carcinogenic, or, you know, cancer promoting whatever you want to say. Then the small amount of canola oil that you might have eaten on your chicken like it's, it's Yeah, and

Philip Pape:

these these rules or whatever, always put out as if it's a big secret, right? It's like, here's the thing. They're not telling you. Here's the thing, you don't know. I'm gonna lay it out on you. And by the way, it's like,

Katie Kollath:

yeah, like, calm down, like your people are already scared. They're like, Oh, my God, carbs or Oh, my God fat. And it's like, what can you eat? Literally nothing. Because now the next thing they're gonna demonize is protein. I'm gonna put that out there right now. Like, do much protein is gonna kill you. And it's like, alright, well, then we're just gonna try to be plants and like, live off the sun. Yeah, no argument from me. No, yeah. So yeah, it's just a balanced approach. And with the vegetable oils, in particular vegetable and seed oils, it's like, we don't cook with them. But we're not gonna stress if we encounter them, you know, outside. So yeah.

Philip Pape:

So a more positive Thai interior. No, no, that's cool. No, that's what we got. We got to lay it out. It's real. Yeah. Your podcast as well. I was curious if it's made you better coaches?

Katie Kollath:

i Yeah, I think so. And we're, we've only been doing it for what, six months now? Yeah. So I think there's, yeah, there's a lot of room for for growth there as well. Podcast hosts and coaches, particularly, you know, me in general, because I do a lot more coaching than other I should say. But yeah, it's, it has helped and I, I have learned to, to definitely like, okay, take a step back and just listen and listen to others opinions, too. And like, think about, you know, what you're going to say before you say it more, because if you couldn't tell them more of the person that's just like, I'm gonna say whatever is on the top of my mind. So it definitely has helped me with that, because I still do have a few in person clients. And that applies to them as well, because I'm having conversations in real time with them. So even if we're not talking about anything, when it comes to fitness, I'm just like, oh, okay, your opinion is this? Well, let me let me come at you with, you know, a warm approach versus like, none other than that, like, I'm gonna debate your opinion in this kind of controversial way. So, so far, that's what I've noticed. Because I do have a lot of conversations with clients. And it's like, Okay, I just learned to listen and learn to think through your thoughts a little bit more. So yeah, I

Heather Hamilton:

think it causes us to be a little more discerning when we're looking at various topics. And yeah, and things like that, when you're doing the research for podcasts, you know, you really want and you really want to give all the information you can that is legitimate. And so, you know, it does cause us to do I mean, our blog has always done that, too. Right. We've done a lot of research for that. But I don't know the podcasts. It's, it's yeah, we do a lot of them. We do two episodes a week. So

Katie Kollath:

well, kind of going back with a vegetable slash seed oil example to illustrate this. Like we, I think a few years ago, we were very much on the train like we we don't want any vegetable oils in our Yeah, but then we wanted to do, or we, we saw some questions. We saw this kind of movement on Instagram, and we're gonna do this, you answer this question on the podcast. And I'm like, you know, I started the initial research on him. And I was like, Heather, I cannot find anything, like any long term study that shows this is harmful. And I think we, we saw some other

Heather Hamilton:

there's like, there's a lot of correlation relationship, but there's no, we can't say causation yet. Yeah. You know, we have to be real about that. And that's the thing with science is your opinion is going to change. And so yeah, I'm sure that there are episodes that we're gonna go back next year and be like, well, guess what, yeah, data has come out and we are changing our mind about that. Yeah. And we've learned about this,

Katie Kollath:

but that's science and it's always going to change and that's

Heather Hamilton:

how coaches evolve and that's totally natural. Any coach that's like No, I still believe this thing from 20 years ago. They're

Katie Kollath:

just like, if when I first started I would try to almost make everyone a powerlifter like not that they would compete but I was like you're gonna squat bench and deadlift, but grandma, grandma Karen you know who's 75 and is never strength train in her life. I don't think she really should be doing barbell back squats yet. Like we could work towards getting there. But we need some, you know, variations to build up to that. So it's like, it's kind of you know, it's it's definitely there's nuance and everything and you just have to be open enough and open minded enough to be able to change your opinions and be okay with it and like not really care are what people think because you're always going to have people who are in those like dogmatic camps, like vegan carnivore seed oil, but like all this, and those people are just going to be those people. But most people aren't. Most people have opinions but are open to change. And that's what you have to be as a good coach, you have to be open to changing your mind, and be okay with it and not be embarrassed by it. But also, like, be willing to grow from it. Because you're always going to do that. And you as you know, you should you should always be trying to grow in your career in your life, you know, etc. So,

Philip Pape:

excellent. I just wanted to pause at that those thoughts, because it's, it's all great stuff. And I agree podcasting is has so many values for not only the research part of it, but even consider being on others. And you have I know you've interviewed folks on your podcast as well, I'm sure you, like even selfishly ask them questions that you want to learn which then the audience learns from Yeah. That way, too. Yeah.

Katie Kollath:

Yeah. Yeah, it's been really fun. We're starting to get more and more people on the podcast, which is gonna be really fun for me.

Philip Pape:

know for sure. Okay, so second, the last question, I like to ask this of all guests. And that is what What question did you wish I'd asked? And what is your answer?

Katie Kollath:

Hmm, I think we're, we're, this is our hard one that we were talking about right before this. But I maybe being a female coach in this industry has its challenges. It's a very male dominated industry. So how we've kind of pushed through that, because personal training in general, the turnover rate is insanely high. So like, when I had the gyms in, in Chicago that I that I worked at, like, there was trainer after trainer, like there was a select few trainers that were there for years, I was probably one of the only women who was there for years at the gym that I was at. So yeah, just kind of pushing through that. And I don't say competing, but being up against like a very being, you know, integrated in a very male dominated industry, which I feel like a lot of industries are, but this one specifically is hard, because a lot of people don't see women as authorities. And I think that's slowly changing. But if you're training with a big jacked guy, which, you know, felt like it's easier for you to build muscle, right? You're a guy. So it's like,

Philip Pape:

I don't know, I don't

Katie Kollath:

know, like, if you're, if you're, you know, a client, and then you get me who's like a smaller woman, and I have some muscle, but like, you know, I'm not like walking around in a tank top and shorts. So it's like, but then you see this jack guy, and okay, he's, he's super jacked. And he's really muscular and rich, like, I'm gonna listen to him. So even though I might have better information, or my coaching style, maybe will fit with him a little bit more. It's that, you know, working through that was was interesting, and I don't hear a lot of female coaches talk about that, nor do I ever hear them get asked that too. So I guess that's the answer. Yeah. No, I

Heather Hamilton:

think that's a good answer. We just had an episode two on our podcast pretty recently. Well, I don't know when this will come out. But it was called How to fire your trainer. And we talked about this. And we talked about what makes a good trainer and how, as the client to find that, and what red flags to look for, and things like that. But that kind of goes along with what Katie is talking about, like, it's fitness in general, a lot of times it's about image, and we are definitely like is not our brand. Right. And so that has been hard, and then throw on top of that being a woman and then throw on top of that being a gay woman. Yeah, you know, it's just been a challenge. And so I guess that's just something we kind of wanted to talk about. Yeah,

Katie Kollath:

it's, you know, and again, I think this is definitely changing now. But if you were a successful female coach, you probably looked a certain way, like you had, you know, clinical body. Whereas, like, a lot of the guys, the guy trainers that I worked with, didn't you know, and which shouldn't matter, right, it shouldn't matter. But it's like I was almost a lesson because I wasn't super rich or jacked like them. And that I had to work three times as hard to get someone's respect and get them to trust me, in that I knew what I was doing versus like, I'm gonna go to this jock guy who like maybe even has a little beer belly, but he's jacked and he's a guy. So that is what I've personally and like, whatever people can get, get their wool bullshit fired up, like you know, they're so like, offended by quote, unquote, woke culture, but I'm telling you my experience as a female coach, and that is a big part of what I experienced when I first started. So if you want to, like chalk it up to walk woke culture or whatever, like go for it, but I'm telling you, like, you can have your opinions but when you actually live it and you kind of grind through it like it's, it was rough, and I'm honestly surprised I stuck through it, but I just like, I really, you know, figured out the passion for helping people and to help change this message. Even if it's just, we're a small part of the fitness industry, even, you know, the small impact we have on our little community. Like, it's worth it for both of us. So it's awesome.

Philip Pape:

I mean, that's what I was gonna follow up was gonna be how, how can you change the message? I mean, you're already doing it right. But how can others listening? Help? Yeah, yeah,

Katie Kollath:

yeah, we'll share our listen to our podcasts. And that's the best way. Because if you, you know, if you look at the episode titles, and it's a topic that you're interested in, like, just having the ability to talk through it long form, and hash out ideas, it's, you, whatever your opinion is, or not, like, you can still agree with us, or you could still disagree with us, but you've still listened to our experience and our the research that we've done, and also our opinions as well. So it's just a really good way to, to get to know us. And potentially, you know, change your mindset around fitness, which we've had just sharing, you know, the podcasts in different Facebook groups or whatever, social media platforms, and I've gotten some messages like, wow, I would have never thought of, you know, working out this way, or strength training this way, or eating more this way? Or, you know, etc, etc. So, yeah,

Philip Pape:

changing lives. That's awesome. Yeah. Oh, yeah. No, and my last question is gonna be where can people find you? So obviously, you can download your podcast? Yeah. And then where else? Can they find you?

Heather Hamilton:

Yeah, so our website is bar path. fitness.com. So you can find it there. You can download our what is it? How to find your maintenance calorie guide? And, you know, get added to the newsletter. And then we do have a Facebook group as well. Yeah, right now called Stronger Than Your Boyfriend. Yeah, just like the just like the podcast. Um, so you can jump in there, too. Sometimes we do challenges and things like that. Yeah, we

Katie Kollath:

do challenges. We do live trainings. If you want to like post, we're gonna post a video of yourself lifting and you want some like form analysis, we're on there and critique it. I mean, that's where we're at right now. I mean, we we plan on the the Facebook group to continue to grow, so I don't know if that will, it will stay that way. So I would take advantage of it now. But yeah, and then social, the social media, social media. Mostly Instagram, Instagram, and Facebook is where we're most active @barpathfitness on Instagram. We do posts a little on the tick tock. Sort of, we potentially might get better at it. We'll see. But that's it's the same handle @barpathfitness. So yeah. All right,

Philip Pape:

cool. So all that's gonna be in the show notes. No matter what. I'm gonna encourage people who are listening to download your podcast Stronger Than Your Boyfriend. Definitely go check out the same Facebook group. And then your website, which is barpathfitness.com. Yes. Perfect. And I mean, this was so much fun. This is one of the best interviews I've had on the show. Why two way?

Heather Hamilton:

Do you say that everyone? Yeah,

Philip Pape:

do you think you can go it's on the record, go listen,

Katie Kollath:

I show it's gonna feel I'm gonna go back and listen. I might have thought,

Philip Pape:

Should I say that? And I'm like, No, I'm gonna reserve it to that I really mean it. And so well, you have so much integrity, like that's what really comes out all of this, whatever the specific message is, the importance is you've got the value and the integrity, and it shows. So thank you so much for taking the time. I'm very grateful that you came on the show.

Katie Kollath:

Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. So awesome. And we're excited to have you on ours. Yes, looking forward to it. Yes. Well, thank you so much. This was so much fun.

Philip Pape:

Thanks for listening to the show. Before you go, I have a quick favorite ask. If you enjoy the podcast, let me know by leaving a five star review in Apple podcasts and telling others about the show. Thanks again for joining me Philip Pape in this episode of Wits & Weights. I'll see you next time and stay strong.

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