David Greenwalt: 0:00

weight loss transformation can't fix everything it can't. But what it can do are the things that we should focus on with respect to the transformation. What can it actually impact? Will it affect mental health? Likely will it affect positivity likely might that impact relationships? Very likely might that impact communication? Yes. Might you feel better feel more confident?

Philip Pape: 0:23

Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Welcome to another episode of Wits & Weights. Today we are diving into body positivity fit shaming, the obesity epidemic, food addiction, willpower and staying on track and the connection between food and mental health. Joining me is certified health coach fitness expert and author David Greenwalt. He's a husband a father, a former police officer, gym owner, competitive state level bodybuilder and power lifter in 1997 at age 32, and a body weight of 235 pounds, David discovered an evidence based approach for getting off his excess 50 pounds. And of course keeping it off for 25 years and counting. Since 1999, through his company, leanness lifestyle University, David has been helping student members from every walk of life, lose excess fat, keep the muscle and manage this crazy life. David, man, thank you for coming on the show. Hey, thanks

David Greenwalt: 1:41

so much for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Philip Pape: 1:44

Awesome. And it sounds like you've been in this space for a while the health and fitness space you have the gym, you've got the experience, both with bodybuilding and powerlifting. You don't often hear that, you know, both sides of of it there. And currently health and wellness coaching. So what is the deeper story behind you know, your life experience that led you to want to help people in terms of nutrition and lifestyle?

David Greenwalt: 2:04

Yeah, so, you know, thanks for asking. So, for whatever reason, fitness has been in my DNA since I was a little boy when I was 1011 years old. I wanted the President's Council on Physical Fitness award, we had that in grade school and I wanted that award. I was a b c team, AF, you know, traditional sport athlete, I wasn't, I wasn't a starter, that's for sure. That wasn't gonna be on the 18th. But for whatever reason, fitness just was something that I just, I just, I don't know, I just had a passion for it when I was little. So I've still got the sticker in the patch and the certificate from that President's Council award. And that's 45 years old and counting now. And I'm so proud to get that when I was a senior in high school, someone who was a year older than me, who had already developed a really great physique invited me to start come training with him and some friends in the weight room. And I thought, Heck, yeah, this I thought his physique is fantastic. Love to be a part of that. And that's that was in 1982. And I've been training without more than two weeks off in a row since 1982. So, so that was the start of my senior year of high school. Just kind of took some time, obviously to develop a physique. I competed in bodybuilding and powerlifting in my 20s and 30s. I was a police officer became an Illinois State Trooper when I got to the Academy for the state police. I decided that I wanted to try to start a tiny little supplement company mail order company. And if I'd be happy if I could just make enough money with this side hustle back then we didn't call it that. But if I can just make enough money to pay for my own protein powder, I'd be happy. And, and so I'm I'm working 40 hours a week in uniform. And I started this tiny little mail order company I placed little classified ads in the back of like bodybuilding magazines, flex Iron Man muscle mag, and I couldn't afford display ads. That was way too rich for me. And it was just a tiny little room in my house. There was no internet. I gave a toll free number people could call I couldn't even answer the phone because I was a police officer working the roads. So I'd have to call them back. And,

Philip Pape: 4:08

and and I would scream and this is how it was done back then this is

David Greenwalt: 4:12

how it was done. Yeah. So as it turned out, it was as much a surprise to me as it would beat anybody. But over the over the course between like 1992 and 1997. I grew that company into about 5 million in annual revenue and 45 employees. And so I'm still a police officer. I'm still working. I've got this company. I've got, you know, dozens of employees. And what happened was the Internet came in. And throughout this process my my customers had seen me that they knew that I had competed in bodybuilding. They knew I competed in powerlifting and I also wrote about fitness and health and nutrition and exercise and I'd go to the we had to go to the Medical Library back then to get research and that they had to photocopy the papers and then bring them back to my office and then read them and highlight him. And then I'd write about research and I tested supplements. And I'd send them off to the lab to make sure that they were what the company said they were. And so people knew that I was really just just so in on wanting to provide good information, solid set the record straight type of type of information. So we had 10s of 1000s of customers through the supplement company, and email came, they started emailing me, hey, Dave, real quick, to get a minute, don't want to be a bother, don't want to be a hassle. But if you could just tell me real quick, how I can lose 30 pounds and keep it off forever. And

Philip Pape: 5:37

so on my problems right now, just clicking on reply. Yes.

David Greenwalt: 5:40

Look, I don't want to be a pest just to be just real quick, you know. And so the thing is, I was so passionate about wanting to help people get from someplace heavier, less healthy, to someplace leaner and healthier. I gave it the old college try, but it didn't take me long to realize that I was doing them a disservice by trying to answer on the back of a napkin, you know. And so a between 1997 and the the first part of 1999, I wrote my book, it's about 500 pages, and it addressed nutrition and exercise and emotional fitness, because I realized even even back then, with as much or as little as I knew how we want to word it, I knew that emotional fitness was a huge driver of keeping the nutrition and exercise components, you know, on the consistent roads. So got that the internet was here, my gosh, Philip, you got email, you've got two way communication, it's unbelievable. And now you've got this thing called a web and you've got wet a web site you can build. So I built that with dial up no fast internet getting disconnected every 15 minutes. And I couldn't even be on the phone in the home at the same time you were on the internet, and but built the site, and provided an online coaching, you know, venue for people. So we could discuss nutrition, exercise, goal setting motivation, and all the elements. And there can be a username, password protected area, that was a 1999. And I've been doing that ever since I sold the supplement company in the early 2000s. Because I was so passionate about wanting to help people. And I realized that that's what I really wanted to do. I didn't know when I was in my 20s that that's what I wanted to do it it evolved it developed over over many years. But once I really started communicating with people in that area of kind of transformation, I was like this is this is what I was meant to do. This is where my heart is, this is where I'm what I'm truly passionate about. And so that's what I've been doing.

Philip Pape: 7:31

That's awesome. You know, a lot of people come through as trainers, for example. It almost sounds like you came the the other direction you had the personal experience, having been a competitor. And then just trying to help people right having those conversations, which even today that's the way it's not like that has changed. What's changed is the technology. Right? Right. And then you talk about the also the need for emotional fitness, which as we know, could be at 90% in some people's journeys of what allows them to be successful. So before we get into some of the mindset stuff and body image, you want to talk about your time as a bodybuilder and power lifter. First of all, were you doing those simultaneously, because that sounds challenging. And then you know, what were those experiences? Like?

David Greenwalt: 8:13

Yeah, so, you know, my first bodybuilding competition was when I was in college, and I was maybe 20 I didn't I mean, I knew we you know, you had to cut calories and whatever, but I was just I did it so poorly. And I had no money. I'm live in a dorm room. I was cooking peas in a little electric hot pot. You know, boiling, I'm in my dorm room. And same thing for chicken breasts had no money for you know, lots of grocery shopping. I was just just mentally checked out. I hated it. I got super lean, I was shredded the whole thing. But I hated it so much. I swore back then when I did that I swore I would never do it again. And I didn't do it again for almost 12 years, because I hated it. But I did it so wrong. I just did with what I knew, you know. But anyway, it's but I but it did do it again. But I spent a number of years in there, you know also powerlifting and I didn't, didn't do a bunch of back and forth between powerlifting and bodybuilding. I was in powerlifting for probably about eight or 10 years kind of consistently, you know, built the strength that way. On 510. You know, the highest weight I got to was about 235. And then in bodybuilding, I would compete. Well. I competed at the NPC Illinois State Championships when I was 42. That's the last comp bodybuilding competition I've done. So it's been a while. But I did that at about 190 pounds on stage. And so that was that.

Philip Pape: 9:52

And you did that the right way. The second time around. Oh,

David Greenwalt: 9:56

that was those years. Yeah. Yes. And that was, you know, four or five other competitions. Haftar so when I did come back to it, I said, Okay, I know a lot more, let's come at it more intelligently. Let's learn, you know, let's put into practice what you now know. And it wasn't, it was it was, I'm not saying it wasn't. I'm not saying that. It wasn't hard, it was hard. But it wasn't like, oh my god, this is just as insane. I never want to do this again.

Philip Pape: 10:20

And it sounds like those experiences would be extremely valuable to you as a teacher and to relate to people who have to go through not that extreme level of shredding, although perhaps you work with with people who are performance focused, but just the average person, right, and understanding how to manage hunger and, and muscle loss and all that. But so I think that experience is a good segue into the body image discussion. And let's start with the bigger picture, right? The obesity epidemic. If we can start there, what's driving that? And what can we do about it?

David Greenwalt: 10:52

So we're not in a good place. And I think that, you know, most people probably already know that, but just kind of by the numbers, we're sitting at 43% Obesity for adults in the United States right now. We were 15% obese in 1970. We're 43%. Today, we're projected to be 50%. obese by 2030 70% of us are overweight. So things have just gone the wrong direction two and a half times more obese now than we were 52 years ago. And projections to go up I see no reason why we won't be 50% obese by 2030. As a society. I'm always hopeful. I'm gonna make sure I put this right up front that every single person listening as an individual doesn't have to follow that trend as an individual, you can totally win this. But so when I bring bring the gray sky to the conversation, I'm talking societal societal numbers population, new repopulation? You bet so that, you know, that's, that's where we are. So what's driving it? What I will say is, I'm, I'm big on not being in a reductionist, but let me try to simplify it in a way that kind of is reductionist, but kind of not what I see as the the number one driver of obesity are all obesogenic factors that contribute to the overconsumption of ultra processed food, including the fact that ultra processed food is addictive, which then becomes obesogenic and further drives the overconsumption of ultra processed food. So, all of the factors external and internal, and they're in there are so many in our modern society, and obesogenic, I just mean that anything that anything that contributes to behaviors driving obesity, anything, you know, you think advertising, the the number, and location of fast food restaurants, convenience stores, 24 cities,

Philip Pape: 12:39

subsidies of subsidies of our food supply that make packaged foods cheaper, yeah,

David Greenwalt: 12:43

subsidies Absolutely. Follow the money, you're gonna get a lot of answers to a lot of this. And so you've got, you know, you've got policy and legal being influenced by laws that are created by politicians that have big money from or money from Big Food flowing into them, I call it the Monkey Banana relationship. We're all monkeys going for bananas. And if we understand the relationship of the monkey and the banana, we can much more so understand where things don't normally make sense. If you understand the Monkey Banana relationship, things will make a lot more sense. We may still hate it, we may still disagree with it. But at least you go, Oh, okay, that's what's going on. So money flows into the politicians. We do have organizations that are at the federal government level, and state level and so forth are in charge of kind of health and putting up a message for nutrition and obesity, and health and wellness and all that, that is also influenced by, by big food and money. The American Academy of Nutrition Dietetics, which certifies every registered dietitian in the country is influenced by big food. They are they are invested in big food, big foods invested in them. And if anybody thinks that there isn't, there isn't an influence in their messaging that comes out. I don't know what to say. I just say that there absolutely is all of the and here's the thing, I want to make sure I'm clear on this too, because some people get people get really riled up. I am not someone who says these are evil people, these are malevolent people, these are maliciously people and we should stand in front of our house in which you know, this is not this is not me at all. I think that these are generally really good, decent people just trying to live life and contribute in the way they think is meaningful and data, data data. But in the end

Philip Pape: 14:35

there's one there's also the incentives right I mean, behavioral economics its incentives are trying to make a living like the rest of us.

David Greenwalt: 14:42

Yes. Yeah. Monkey Banana.

Philip Pape: 14:44

There you go.

David Greenwalt: 14:46

So So I look at him like that but here's the thing, my my position on it by at least understanding you know, follow the money, the Monkey Banana relationship, however you want to say it is it's about more so helping us to under Stand there relationships so we can adjust our relationship.

Philip Pape: 15:03

Right? Right. And it's what we can control, not what we can't.

David Greenwalt: 15:07

Right? That's right. And, you know, we can't work. Here's the thing, I think, and I'm a generally very positive person. But I'm a realist. So I think that you and I are probably going to be in our grave before the big societal picture is fixed, but I'm super positive. And again, at the individual level, we don't have to wait for them. We can't wait for a top down approach to fix this. This that's, I'm not saying it's never going to happen. Never say never. We're already seeing changes in the in processed foods as far as what's being put in and what they're doing to it. Because we are voting with our pocketbooks more, we are saying no, to the to some of the 3000 industrial additives that are put in our food supply and what's how it's used, and how it's made. And again, what's the primary driver? What's the Monkey Banana relationship, a big food, it's profit. And if they can profit more on producing a better product for us, then they'll do that. And if we keep voting with our pocketbook, they'll continue to do it. But even so we can't wait for that top down approach. It's going to be a bottom up, and we just, we have to just look out for ourselves as individuals. And if so we're gonna be just fine.

Philip Pape: 16:14

Yeah, so there you go. It's, it's the buck stops with the choices we make, at the end of the day, knowing this context, which I imagine a lot of people aren't fully educated or, you know, there's an unconscious level of, you know, herd mentality to this whole thing. And I think, you know, like, podcasts like this, and your message that gets out there, we're doing our part as best we can. And many of us I know, I didn't have necessarily the athletic background you did. But it took me decades to figure this stuff out myself. And I'm the kind of guy like you positive I think I'm in control. I think I know a lot. And still, the ignorance was there despite my best efforts. So yeah, yeah. So now, we want to talk about body body positivity, which is closely linked to obesity, right? Because we talk about outside factors, the obesogenic environment, and then perhaps that leads to the thought, Well, you're a big person, or you're at an obese weight, and he can't really help it. And so we shouldn't criticize, or judge people for how they look, you know, healthy at any size, all of that messaging, which can get thorny and controversial. But I know we're going to treat it with the right nuance here and respect. So what do you think about that movement?

David Greenwalt: 17:21

First of all, I I, I generally understand how kind of despondent a lot of people are, who have tried and battle this hundreds of times, where you've you consider false starts and start stops and start on Monday, and you're done by Tuesday and, or whatever, whatever the thing may be. Where in the in the environment we're in with the messaging that is that has been given, again, from top down from top health, government, Top Health edu, Academy of Nutrition, and dietetics supposed to be the trusted nutrition source for dietitians and everything, all things in moderation, eat less and exercise more, never say no to anything, you get a craving, make sure you have some other ways it can do this and do that. There's no such thing as a bad food, blah, blah, blah, all of that messaging, first of all, it hasn't worked. Look at us look where we are 43%, obese versus 15%, they've done a poor job on getting, if that was their goal, if their goal was to help us stay or get healthy, they have failed. So with that in mind, I understand because I work with people every single day who are not completely hopeless, Otherwise, they wouldn't find me. There's still there's still a little bit of hope there. Right? Where they're like, Oh, I almost don't believe that it's possible for me to witness. But I have a 1% tiny little piece of flickering ash in me, you know, that says I just don't want to accept where I'm at. I'm, I'm not happy where I'm at. I'm, you know, I'm dissatisfied in so many ways. But I understand that, since you know, the failure rate is somewhere between 80 and 95%, for keeping it off, you know, and I get that it's like, at some point, I think there's this, this movement is kind of been like, Look, guys, you know, everything that's been put out there hasn't worked. Of course, you know, when you look at 80 to 95%? Well, if we look at the general messaging, again, top down big messaging, big influential groups, their messaging hasn't worked. It's not surprising to me that it hasn't worked because it hasn't addressed what I call kind of six pillars that have to be looked at, you need to look at nutrition, you've got to look at exercise, fine. Everybody looks at that. That's usually what people are thinking, by the way, when they say I know what to do, I just need to do it. And when they when they say I know what to do, I just need to do it. And I know I'm tangent A tangent in here a bit. There's third thinking nutrition exercise, eat a little less and better exercise a little more and better. I got it. But you don't got it that because that's only two of the six. We've got to look at intrinsic motivation, what drives willpower, we've got to look at compulsive eating addiction. We've got to look at emotional fitness and then we've got to see what personal professional and spiritual support might that person need as an individual Those are the six pillars nutrition exercise, intrinsic motivation, compulsive eating addiction, that's one, emotional fitness is a big category and one, and then what level of support will an individual need? Well, I mean, come on, the average person out there who's been battling this, the average person who maybe kind of as you, you segwayed, into, maybe into this, let's just Oh, my God, let's just accept where we are, let's just say that heck with it, you know, we've tried, I've tried hundreds of times, and so have millions of others, we aren't succeeding, we try to apply the messaging that's been given to us, it doesn't work, I haven't been able to make it work for me, and neither of these millions of other people. So and I've seen film, I've seen researchers, I've written researchers who have given up, the researchers have given up, not across the board, but I've seen them here and there, where they're like, basically, the best thing someone can hope for is just don't gain any more. Right. And I'm like, I write a researcher, I'm like, shame on you, for giving up Shame on you, for you with the education you have. And all the resources you have to, to not looking at, I'm going to call it the six pillars, but looking at the other factors that are almost never addressed, but have to be addressed. If we want to win this once. And for all this can be one, we I see it every day with my own clients, other people see it with their clients. But when people really have put into place, what's really necessary to win this, this absolutely can be won. Back to your your kind of your state and your question. I don't blame people for being at a point where they're like, man, we just, I just want to at least feel good about life, you know, I'm gonna feel good about where I'm at. So from a body positivity position like that, I very much am sympathetic to it. I am going to say I understand it the best I can. And but even so, you know, we can we can kind of take it from here.

Philip Pape: 21:54

Yeah, so it sounds like the the message here is, we're so conditioned to failure. We're so conditioned to everything having that we've tried hasn't worked. And even if we think we're doing the right thing, nutrition and training, that's only to have, like you said, the six pillars actually like the way you organize that because I haven't heard it quite structured that way. But it's complete. I can imagine a pie chart or something like that, right? Filling in the whole picture. The motivation, the compulsive eating, the emotional and support side are here, right? They're massive, even so when you throw in the nutrition and training, I'm sure you've seen that people don't really understand what the right thing is to do. Many times, even with nutrition and training does that truth right? It is.

David Greenwalt: 22:34

And so a lot of people come in and go, I know what to do, I just need to do it nutrition exercise. Got it. Just give me the seven day diet and exercise plan. Dave, thanks so much little accountability, again, and I'll be on my way. And, and here's the thing is that first of all, I don't know what you know about nutrition, you may know some things and maybe you've got it pretty solid, but then again, maybe you don't there's so much misinformation out there. You know, and I don't know what you've consumed, I don't know what you've read listen to. So first of all, we really have to make sure without being dogmatic, overly rigid, and all this kind of stuff, we need to make sure that they have a real understanding of nutrition for the purposes of health and fitness. And the same thing for exercise do they have what they need to be able to perform exercise in a way that's gonna be meaningful to them and, and promoting of healthspan and lifespan and all the things they want out of it? Whatever that may be physique and whatever it may be? So let's assume that we get that to that point. And if I ask someone Hey, what's general what do we record? What are we generally mean by you know, good nutrition? What do we generally mean by proper amount of proper type and amount of exercise? And let's say they can regurgitate that back? Great, they bought but they're sitting at two right now. Got it?

Philip Pape: 23:47

Yeah, but you and but your process, I like your process, because and you use use the free student member when you talk about your, your clients of getting to getting them to that baseline, right? Because you'll you'll have someone come to you and I get this too, if interested clients. Well, but I'm doing paleo and running a lot. So I've got that covered. Now, why is everything not working? Like okay, we have to peel back and get to the premise of all this first and rebuild the foundation. So listening to podcasts like this will get you there and listen to what David has to say. All right, um, you know, I want to talk about fit shaming, but I think there's a lot more to cover in the on the on the fat shaming or the body positivity, whatever phrases we want to use. On the mindset side, you mentioned this defeatist mindset, right? Where people have basically given up or maybe they have that flicker of hope, but it's close. And a lot of people criticize someone for not having willpower, right? That's the common thing like if this is all you have to do, and we've established that the even the basic education isn't there, but let's say everybody knew the right thing to do. You're just not doing it right. You just have to whatever it is, eat less exercise more whatever. It's just energy balance. We know energy balance is true, but but to say that and that you're lacking willpower and people don't just do it. What are your thoughts on that? You know, approach.

David Greenwalt: 25:02

So yeah, very, very strong thoughts on that. And I but I want to just plant this and if we don't get to it, we don't. But I want to plant this that I that while I am 100% 100% all in that every single person has certain inalienable rights, to love respect, if you're just trying to be a good person, I don't care what size you are, I don't care at all zero care about that, other than the concerns I have, with regard to obesity in the issues that that relate to that from a health perspective. But as far as a human being perspective, zero, love, respect, consideration, empathy, all the things that we as humans should be just granted period for being alive if we're trying to be a good person. I'm 100%. All in on that. And if we if we go back to that, I'll talk about the two concerns I have that have nothing to do with whether someone's good or bad. You know, it's not a judgment type thing, but just concerns I have and what is obesity and all that. With regard to your your question, that you just asked, Why don't people just do it? What about willpower? One of the things, you know, when I was telling you that, you know, back in 1997, when people were emailing me, hey, Dave, real quick, if you get a chance, no big deal. 30 pounds, keep it off forever. That's still a mindset that's here today, where it's minimized. They don't understand what it's going to take. They don't understand what's involved with all that we have going on and how obesogenic our society is and all the forces working against them, when they don't know what things to look at the, let's say the six pillars, but they also don't they also minimize what it's going to take everybody eats, everybody moves. It shouldn't be that hard. And we all know, here's the thing, I always say, I can come to your city and stand on tallest building with a bullhorn and scream, eat less and exercise more, and people will look up and go, I know. I mean, we there's a, there's an inherent understanding of energy balance, we have to take in less energy than we expend. If we do we'll lose weight, hopefully most of it fat. If we take in more energy, you know, then we expend, we're gonna gain and if we take an equal amount that will stay the same. I don't know what it is 80% 90% of the people if you ask them that they're good. Yeah, I know. So the thing that they're missing, though, is everything else. All that's left is all the rest. And so, and all the rest is a lot so one of them is they minimize the why they're going to need you know, the why is so critical. Why power drives willpower? And kind of proof and evidence just they is the thought exercise is people think they don't have willpower. And I don't think that someone that's 300 pounds, 400 pounds, I don't think I don't think they don't have what they have willpower. They've demonstrated it over and over and over again. If they weren't this present example, if anybody works for someone else, do you? When's the last time you were late for work? Good point. Yeah. I mean, it takes willpower my definition. My adapted definition is the the ability to do what needs to be done when it needs to be done whether you feel like it or not. You go to work regardless. Well, what about when you're sick go to work. What about when you're tired? Go to work. What about when you got two hours sleep and the kid was crying, crying all last night with a fever go to work? What about when you know, you just got done crying yourself for 20 minutes because there was a emotional upheaval in the family you lost your love, you go to work, it's you go to work. And not only do you go to work, you go to work on time. And not only do you go to work on time a lot, a lot of days you're at least somewhat productive you know, your job and so you do these things and that's a huge demonstration of willpower and you have it Why do people do that? That's the answer their Why is incredibly strong for keeping the job. All the things that gives them money is one of the things but also you know feelings of contribution and satisfaction and community or whatever it may be. There's a huge why for why people go to work. Same thing if people have young children when was the last time you didn't pick up your kid from school when they needed to be picked up? Did you just say Nah, I'm not in the mood today. Of course you didn't you went because even though you were tired sick just had an argument with your spouse. Whatever the thing is, you went picked up the child because your why for making sure your child knows they can count on you is so strong. You will do it no matter what. You have an advanced degree. It's hard as hell. Did you always you always go to class study and do the things you needed to do when you were in the mood? Absolutely not. That took incredible willpower anything hard long, that isn't necessarily naturally in your wheelhouse. Or that you would just kind of choose to do no matter what some Things you're just passionate about right? Things we are like nobody has to tell me to do XYZ. I love it so much even so there's still a strong why there, but it's just more something that somebody is more naturally inclined to want to do. Things that aren't like that. You've got to incredibly crazy why and why powers driving willpower? When people come at obesity or weight management, they minimize that. They come out and you say, Why do you want to do this had just want to get a little healthier? That's not gonna work. That's not enough. It's a start. It's nothing wrong with it. It's just not developed. It hasn't been really drilled down into this, we have to get the why incredibly, emotionally driving strong, much stronger than what people realize. And so it's a third, it's a third pillar, and it's minimized, it's and if there's a work, it's not going to work. Why because the obesogenic environment, the factors that are working against us are so strong, so powerful. If we have the why we can persist. You know, we can persist. Even though life is throwing us curveballs, we can persist. Without exception, we can persist, no matter what happens, we may not always do it, right. We're not always going to wake up every day and slay the dragon, we're not going to do it. But we can do it much more often, much more consistently if our Y is strong. So one of the things we do is help our student members develop their why fully develop their y, so that they are really ready to wake up and face the day and be like, okay, yes, this isn't, this isn't something that I kind of want to do or that I kind of thought about, or it'd be nice. I have to have this. This is something I have to do

Unknown: 31:45

now to Philippe and hopefully for a long time, I don't know how passionate he is about healthy eating, and body strength. And that's why choosing to be my coach. I was no stranger to a dieting and body training. But I always struggled to do it sustainably really helped me prioritize my goals with evidence based recommendations, or not over stressing my body and not feeling like I'm starving. In six months, I lost 45 pounds without drastically changing the foods I enjoy. Now I have a more balanced diet, I weight train consistently. And most importantly, I do it sustainably if a scientifically sound healthy diet and a Langstrom body is what you're looking for. Philip Pape is your guy.

Philip Pape: 32:29

I just want to explore that one one later, deeply. Because it's a common thing I see where people are asked what their goal is. And their goal is, like you said it's at the superficial level, it's almost the method that they're they're regurgitating is the goal, you know, the the losing fat or the getting fit, right? It's almost a method or a small piece of the whole process, where the Why might be, like you said, emotionally tied to being a role model for their kids and being there when they're older and being able to enjoy these activities that they couldn't enjoy otherwise, et cetera. How do you what kind of activity or exercise do you go through that maybe the listener can try on their own?

David Greenwalt: 33:07

So you know, one of the things that one of the things that you can do to at least start with is, you know, you want to consider, you know, kind of certain categories, you know, how might your why this kind of just be thinking about these things? How might your y affect family relationships, professional aspirations, career aspirations? We know there's bias there. How might it affect aspirational things? What are things that you've put on hold? Or is there anything socially that you want to do more of that you've put on hold or that you avoid, because you don't want to be in that situation? That's so common. So those are some things to kind of think of, you know, category and then also physicality things, I want sculpted shoulders, and I'm not talking body builder, but you know, let's just say, you know, a common thing for a woman again, it varies as are stars in the skies, but it is the common thing that is a woman wants to wear be able to wear a sleeveless, I'd like to be able to wear a sleeveless and feel good about my shoulders and arms. That's all I don't need to get on stage but just to feel good about what I'm wearing. I want to be able to shop my closet, I've got four sizes of clothes in my closet, I don't need to go buy more clothes, I just want to fit into the ones I fit into. So those are kind of physicality things. So that's a part of it. Kind of looking at all these various categories where here's the thing, weight loss, transformation can't fix everything, it can't, but what it can do are the things that we should focus on with respect to the transformation what can it actually impact? Will it affect mental health? Likely will it affect positivity likely might that impact relationships, very likely, might that impact communication? Yes, might you feel better feel more confident? So, just as a practical exercise, just as a starter, something that I will say is start with? I want blank so Fill that blank. I want blank. So that blank, that's like a, it's like a chapter heading on your whiteboard. Okay, you know.

Philip Pape: 35:11

And that's important because the first blank is where people often stop. Like, that's why I want blank No, but why you want blank,

David Greenwalt: 35:18

right? So that what and then you can start to drill down by saying, let me see if I can just give them a quick example, I want to let's say they're going to use a number, I want to weigh 160 pounds, so that I fit comfortably in a normal airplane seat. Because people can take it for granted. But if you're, if you're not large, you can take for granted. But if you're large, that's something that I've had, I can't tell you how many clients just something thing I want to fit I want to fit in. So let's just say that's,

Philip Pape: 35:52

that's the thing. No, this is great. Yeah, it's sorry, we 160

David Greenwalt: 35:56

pounds so I can fit comfortably. And in that center, not an aisle seat. So I can fit in the center seat of, you know, an airplane. So that what Yeah, what do I say? So that I can do that. Alright, so then we go. So the next question would be, it's important to me that I can fit comfortably in an airplane seat, because what follows the because so that starts to write the chapter. So the chapter heading is I want blank, so that blank, but we start to write the chapter when we we look at whatever followed so that we look at that, whatever that thing is. And we ask this question, we say it this way, it's important to me that I can fit comfortably in an airplane seat, just as an example. Because, and then you start to expand on that. And then that starts to get emotional. You know, sometimes the I want. So that is emotional. But that starts to get emotional, because then we start drilling down, what does it mean to you to be able to fit in an airplane seat comfortably? What does that mean? You know, what does that what difference does that make? Who cares? Well, I'll tell you why. Because of this, I mean, so you start filling in the blank on that. And you can start adding multiple supportive statements to the chapter. And you can just kind of, you can kind of start building it that way, and start drilling down. So there are lots of do's and don'ts. But basically, you know, as far as getting a start, that's a good way to start. And it's something that most people have never heard.

Philip Pape: 37:26

Yeah, I love that. You put it into a, you put it into a narrative, a story. And it's, there's a drier version of that, that I learned in the engineering world called five whys. And it's a root cause technique where you simply just keep asking why, which is effectively what you're doing. But you're doing it in a way that tells an entire story. You could say, I want this, why? Because of this, well, why because of this, and you keep going down that you're effectively doing that. But it's a very powerful tool, because you get to that root cause. Yeah, and the other and the other thing you alluded to when some of your examples is, it doesn't have to be I mean, the reason is yours. The reason is your like, don't let anybody judge you for it. It could be a vanity reason. It could be, you know, a very powerful reason. One question I've asked people is what what would you like to be doing when you're 90? Like, what physical feat would you like to accomplish when we're talking strength? What do you want to still be able to do when you're 90 and then kind of let that drive you as well? It's good stuff, David. All right. Yes, stuff.

David Greenwalt: 38:23

Yeah. Can I just say on the vanity thing, it's a common thing. You just I hadn't thought of it. But you mentioned. And here's the thing. A lot of people will stop short on even putting in their why? What they really want, because they're afraid they're going to sound vain. But here's the thing. Vanity is excessive pride. excessive pride. Just because you want to feel proud, doesn't mean you have excessive pride. It doesn't mean you're standing on a perch, it doesn't mean you're a narcissist. It doesn't mean that you are all the negative things where you know, you are now looking down on people and you're just feeling pride. I feel proud that I accomplished this. I feel proud. I feel proud. Is it okay? If I feel proud that our three grown kids are amazing. I would think it's okay, if I as a parent, feel proud of my kids, and that I'm so proud of them. And I'm so proud, I can be proud. I hope that we as parents, least did what we did to contribute in some way to them, you know, being good. And I don't see anything wrong with that. Why are you feeling good about that without being overblown? Do I have plenty of things that I could have could have would have showed up? You know, raising our kids. Yes, I still have awareness of that just because I feel proud about it. But why can't we feel that way? Why can't we put that stuff into our why? And I say do it put it in there. What do you really want you know, things that you will feel proud about? Put it in there. It's not excessive unless it is and and unless You're judging others and pointing right looking down on others and things like that, if you're not doing that, and you're living, let live, do it, put it in there.

Philip Pape: 40:09

And I love that that is really good. I mean, just the fact that vanity is excessive pride, but you just want to get to, you just want to get to a baseline that would make you satisfied with what you've done in life. Right? You know, or even a little more than that, but not excessively. Right. And you alluded to that. Don't Don't judge other people. But also, if you're listening to this, or, you know, someone that is trying to improve their life, for whatever reason, let's not shame them either. And I see this happen in in groups or families, particularly where everybody's struggling a bit right with their health. So one person decides to be the outlier. Yeah, and and do something different. And all of a sudden, you know, you're weird. Why are you doing this? There's no way you could get healthier. Look at us as the family tree, you're making us look bad, or just just a lack of, you know, an apathy about it. Yeah, the list goes on. And people listening in you, David know exactly what I'm talking about. Yeah. And there's a phrase, I guess, fit shaming, we can call it whatever we want. It's that double standard people criticize others for trying to get in shape, improve their health, and so on. Yeah, your thoughts about that?

David Greenwalt: 41:14

First of all, there is a bit of a double standard, I'll take, I'll take the compliment that it mostly is, even if it's left handed to a degree, I'll take the compliment in a day of the week over living the alternative. And that's just me, each person do their thing. But to be able to be fit enough where someone feels there, they can be comfortable enough to comment. I'll take that. And I'll take it and listen. I'm not saying that when I take it, I don't go oh, my god, are you? You know, of course I do. You know, a day, you know, I don't see any protein in that brownie. You're getting ready at the family function? I'm sure that's you're sure that's got protein in it, Dave? No, no, it, it doesn't doesn't have much protein now, you know. So. And that's not something you would say, I shouldn't say that there are people who are cruel. So in my mind, I can hardly picture because I just wouldn't do it. I would never say to someone who is obvious. They're struggling with their weight data, data. Sure. You want that extra piece of cake, Sally or whatever, at the fan. Oh, my God. But I know there are cruel people out there. And there are people that are cruel that do that. So I'm not saying it doesn't happen to them. It does. But what you're saying, you know, it definitely does happen. I think it mostly or a lot of times is not mean spirited. Sometimes it is the person themselves, who says it may be feeling whatever they're feeling about their own journey. They aren't feeling as competent in their own journey. And so or, or they just kind of feel like maybe the person is that they're talking to has a level of fitness, where they're not saying they think this way, but the so this may not be the gist, right? But it's almost like they're wearing a coat of armor. You know, because you're just you've got it together. You're intimidated, maybe. Yeah, yeah. And so you'll be able to take this and you'll know how I mean it, and you won't be offended and it won't hurt your feelings. And but sometimes it does. But even so I'd still rather be in the position I am and go. Alright, I gotta, again, I'm going to use emotional fitness to process the sting, you know, someone saying something, because of the double standard or whatever, and just try to get on. You get on with life. But does it happen? Oh, yeah.

Philip Pape: 43:22

Yeah, yeah. It's just a very interesting thing. Because you do talk about one of the pillars being support. And I'm always thinking about, you know, the people you surround yourself with, like you said, if it's, if it's innocent, if it's not intended that way, and you'll you'll probably know that there's nuances and conversation all the time. And again, like you said, if you're doing the things you feel are right, for you with pride, and not excessive pride, you just move on, and you probably have built up some level of not not armor in the way you were intending it but our good armor against this. Resilience, right?

David Greenwalt: 43:53

Yes, yeah. Yes. I, and just, you know, I think again, I think generally, generally speaking, if you're really super fit, you're going to stand out. And because that's not the norm, I mean, if you're truly fit, you know, we can define we can define, you know, health related physical fitness, we can define it, you know, cardio, respiratory endurance, muscular endurance, muscle, muscular strength, flexibility, body composition, are the five components. If you have all of those high cardio, muscular endurance, muscular strength, body composition, flexibility, you have all of those high, you're going to look like it, right Oh, those are high, you're going to look like Man, that guy is fit or that gals fit, you know, and you're gonna stand out because that is not the norm. And you're gonna stand out in a positive way. And I think most people most will look at that person and go, way to go, you know, now that may not be what comes out of their mouth.

Philip Pape: 44:47

No, but it's true. You're right. You're right. It was

David Greenwalt: 44:49

a piece of that. I'm at least I think for most people are who go Dang. Okay, you know, maybe they don't think they can do it. Maybe they're like, Oh, I could never do that but go for you, but it also may still come out when you have that piece of brownie at the family function, you know, how many protein there?

Philip Pape: 45:06

Oh, hopefully it's motivated to I mean, at least I tried to look at it that way. And anybody that is doing things that I would aspire to get closer to, even though again, we shouldn't compare ourselves to people, because everyone's different, but at least, you know, using it as a positive of like, okay, I'm gonna take those thoughts and I know, make them into something that works for me. All right, so I have a whole bunch more questions, but we don't have a ton more time. So I'm going to, I'm going to focus on maybe we were going to talk about things like food addiction and flexible eating. So maybe a little talk about the actual food specifics. You mentioned, the, you know, no food is off limits approach, or the, you know, there's no good or bad food. We have the concepts of flexible dieting, which for some people, it's different things, I think it is like whatever Alan Aragon's kind of path of flexible dieting, where it's not anarchy, you know, it's not, If It Fits Your Macros so much as a macro and calorie guidelines within which you have some flexibility, but you're gonna limit your processed foods to an extent, just go I mean, tell me what your what your thoughts are on the topic,

David Greenwalt: 46:09

you bet. So, you know, my thing as far as again, applying these moral, you know, assessments to what we eat, it's good, it's bad. I don't healthy, unhealthy, I don't I look at it, are we eating real food and doesn't work for you. So, you know, I think that, again, I've adapted a working definition of real food, based off of a food classification system called the Nova food classification, and developed by Professor out of Brazil been around 1012 years now, it's, it's making the rounds, and has been in the research now for quite some time, very heavily being looked at respected, nothing's perfect. It's not either, but I really like what Nova food classification looks at, because they look heavily at the processing. And so my working definition from theirs again, you'd have to, they're a semester long things that would have to get into their breakdown. But mine is this real food is whole or minimally processed, edible parts of plant and animal, where if anything's been added to it, it's whole or minimally processed ingredients commonly found in kitchens. So me say it again, quick, because I think it just kind of people like what he just said, whole are mentally process edible parts of plant and animal where if anything's been added to it, it's whole or minimally processed, ingredients commonly found in kitchens. So, you know, it's, you know, you think about your single ingredient things very common, you know, your single ingredient, animal based products, or single ingredient, plant based products, sure, but there's also combination products that are that are absolutely just fine, too, you can have a merit, a jarred marinara on the shelf. And the ingredients can be tomatoes, basil, oregano, garlic, you know, blah, blah, blah. And as long as those are the ingredients, it's what we call real food. So basically, everything else, even that is at least minimally processed. But almost everything else, if it's not real food is ultra processed. Not everything, there's nuance to it. And so we want to minimize that our goal is to try it out. Right now, Americans are eating 60 to 90% of what they eat is ultra processed food 60 to 90%. It's crazy. And so what we want to do, and that's what's happened is that's crowded out real food, it's crowded out, all we want to do is we want to reverse that. And I'm not saying we eliminate Ultra processed food, but I'd like to get real food up to 90%. That's like the pinnacle, you know, 90% intake, real food you go. That's crazy, David, you're insane, dude. Well, that is how we ate for hundreds of 1000s of years. It's exactly how we ate for hundreds of 1000s year we ate real food. It's what we're designed to eat our body knows what to do with it. And as I said at the top of this, what's the primary contributing factor to obesity in the United States, all obesogenic factors that contribute to the overconsumption of all processed foods? Yes. You know, so we kind of came full circle there. But So with regard to kind of what you were saying, I'm flexible, you know, I said this to somebody just the other day, they're like, Okay, somebody was trying to kind of help create kind of a vision. This is a different podcast, and their thing was just their whole focus was different, but they were trying to create a vision of things, you know, to avoid, they're like, Okay, I would want people to avoid, you know, pizza and cookies. And I said, Well, it depends. I mean, if you're eating 90% real food, and as a part of your 10% you can have pizza or cookies, or whatever it is, and remember, is it real food and does it work for you? People will pound their fist. You can do it with what you can do with salted peanuts. They'll pound their fists and go to real food. Dave, I'm good to go. Does it work for you? It doesn't work for you if you eat the whole jar.

Philip Pape: 49:48

Right? Does it work for you your goals? Does it make you feel good? All right.

David Greenwalt: 49:52

Do you get gastrointestinal distress does it give you gas and diarrhea? Is a cloud your your brain get foggy afterwards? Okay. Even if it's real food, if it doesn't work for you, we got to figure out what we're going to do about it. So, so yeah, we have to look at, you know, all all of these things, to really, really get a handle on what's really going on. So real food 90%. That's why generally, let's put it this way, at least, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that categorically anything's off limits, it's going to vary person to person, I just would like to see real food crowd out Ultra processed foods.

Philip Pape: 50:30

That is that is exactly the phrase I use. I love it that you're saying that. And it often starts for me with protein, because people are underfed on protein. And the argument I like to make is if you go to the grocery store and find whatever sources of protein you can, it's very hard to find very much processed foods that are protein, you know, high enough and protein and you inevitably have to go to the animal and plant sources. It kind of you know, you're not thinking Whole Foods unnecessarily consciously you think and then you get protein, what's going to serve me what's right for me? Yeah. And then it starts to crowd out other things. Well, if I need to get 180 grams of protein, I'm not going to have too much room for these things. Yeah. Now what about? So like, whey protein is always brought up with me? And I think that's pretty much a whole food. But don't tell me what you think. Yeah, it's arguable. It is.

David Greenwalt: 51:16

It's it. I think it's in a in a bit of a nuanced I think that, again, if you take a let's just say, everybody says whey protein, what whey protein, so spin it around, let's look at the ingredients. If the ingredients are, you know, whole or minimally processed, edible parts of plant and animal were the only thing added to it is holer, minimally processed ingredients commonly found in kitchens, then you can say it's processed, but it's we can still possibly call it real food. But if you get like a flavored whey protein, and now it's got 20,

Philip Pape: 51:41

suka artificial flavors and all that yet

David Greenwalt: 51:44

Ultra processed for sure. Whey Protein and and lecithin as the emulsifier. You know, I mean, I don't know what Nova would say on that. I think Nova might say processed, maybe they wouldn't say Ultra process. Because, you know, in my years back when I was talking about I think I talked about when I had the supplement company. Yeah, when I had the supplement company, you know, I actually went to Minnesota, I went to land a lakes in Minnesota, because I had a protein produced for me and I toured their plant, I saw how it was made. And if we're talking about drying, and we're talking about filtering, and we're talking about things like that, where we haven't added in things we haven't added in acid washes, and we haven't added things in but it's a drying and a filtering process. I think it you know, you could probably, if it's just an unflavored whey, you know, or it's whey isolate and cocoa, okay, commonly found in kitchens, fine. You know, we could say it's maybe it's just processed, but not Ultra processed. By the way, what that thing you and I are talking about right there that specific food is not the reason that we have obesity.

Philip Pape: 52:52

That's a great point. It's like if people bring up fruit, you know, I'm like fruit is not the cause of obesity.

David Greenwalt: 52:59

That is not, it is not? I know, no,

Philip Pape: 53:02

that is a good point, like, do we even need to talk much about it? That's more of an optimization thing, right? You've got things, then you're like, Okay, let me go to more. Even even myself. I know, I occasionally have the big tubs of the cheaper protein because I gotta get it in. Right? Yeah, you know, I should probably spend a little more occasionally in the stuff that doesn't have the extra ingredients. Alright, so how about, I just I'll ask you my penultimate question that I ask all guests, and that is what one question Did you wish I had asked, and what is your answer?

David Greenwalt: 53:31

Wow. You know, I don't have because I was able to at least mention the six pillars. It's important that people know that any one of those could be the showstopper. And I'll reverse I'll reverse the sentence. It could also be the difference maker in success. So I don't think you've missed any questions. I think that okay. Oh, all right. I'll do this one, because we looked at body positivity. What's my concern with body positivity Dave?

Philip Pape: 54:03

What's your? What's your answer?

David Greenwalt: 54:06

So my thing is, it's, again, not the person. Absolutely not human inalienable rights. Let them be, don't judge them, you know, ever right? You also don't know if they're healthy. Right? You know, you can tell by looking at them that they may be obese, you can tell by looking at them that maybe their waist circumference as a female is greater and 35 greater than 40 is a male got it? But that's only one factor. So instead of instead of looking at someone and saying that person is obviously unhealthy, because there'll be you don't know, you can't tell you can't see their biomarkers. You can't see the measurements other than the physical one, you know, on the outside, so why am I concerned one, I'm concerned when someone does reach the obese status and I'm concerned because obesity is a known risk factor for increased incidence of cancer stroke, heart disease, diabetes, systemic inflammation, dementia, naphthyl D, non alcoholic fatty liver disease, arthritis. as autoimmune disorders and eventual long term care, and that's kind of part one at the individual level, I'm concerned for the individual I'm with Body Mass Index defining obesity and a body mass index being 30, or greater being obese. And then there are three classes of obesity 30 to 34.9 is class 135 to 35 39.9 is class two and 40. And up is class three, the moral beasts, the more likely these things are to occur, I am not as concerned and I am not someone, as a coach who says, You've got to be, you've got to have a BMI of 25 or less, which was, you know, with under 2024 point now, 18.5 to 24.9 is the healthy normal weight range by BMI. It's the 30. And up because the research starts to get much stronger, where we start to not equivocate so much, we can equivocate it with a BMI of 2728, whatever, and maybe the very, very lowest end of obesity. But once that starts to decline, then my concerns that I just raised our concerns for that reason their health is going to suffer. And then part two of that is we all are sharing the cost of the increased cost of obesity, there is an increased cost of obesity, and so I'm concerned for the individual. But I also think it's unsustainable as a society for us to continue in the direction we are, and just get to the point where we don't, as individuals, try and solve it for ourselves first, because we can't wait for the top down, but eventually top down doing what they can to try to help, you know, bring the obesity epidemic down, because you're looking at obesity in the United States costing us on what $173 million, you know, extra year, someone who's obese, that cost them health care wise, $3,508 more per year for that individual. And that's if they don't have lots of medications and in need of surgeries and kind of chronic medical care. It's it's very, very expensive to us all. And you know, Medicare and Medicaid, pay a huge portion of the increased medical costs. Who pays for Medicare and Medicaid? We all do. There's a shared costs tax base, you name it, but there's a shared cost in that. And so we're all paying more, I'm gonna say not because individuals have your failures as individuals, you're weak willed. I hope I've gotten the message across. I don't see that at all. The messaging from top down has failed. We've created this environment that's incredibly obesogenic we have given them the wrong information. Well, not enough of the right information. Some of its right not enough of the right information. It's half cocked, it's it's influenced and biased by, by money, the Monkey Banana relationship. So we've got these millions of people that are suffering in obesity, with huge costs, huge eventual health and lifestyle and healthspan cost to them as individuals, and then huge costs to us, which I see is unsustainable. So I'm only really concerned on the kind of the body positivity side is for one, knock it off, if you're just a mean person, okay? Don't you know, I don't care who you're doing it to stop it. No one deserves that. But I am concerned for them as individuals, I'm concerned for us as a society because of the increased costs. And what is actually paying for this. And again, huge, a huge amount of it is Medicare, Medicaid.

Philip Pape: 58:29

Great message. And I think Is it true that anyone, no matter what state they're in today can improve their health?

David Greenwalt: 58:37

Oh, gosh, here's, I'm gonna take it a step further. Yes. And I'm gonna say this, no matter what you've been told, no matter what your family history is, no matter what your genetics are, no matter what you've been dealt or handed, you know, in life, I want to say, Please don't give up because you absolutely can win this, you can get to any healthy weight you want. And you can live there, plus or minus 10 pounds, whatever, somewhere in that range. No one lives there perfectly. You can live there for life. I don't care if you're 60 listening to this, I don't care if you're 19 you can get there. And you can live there for life. It's it's not a wonder if you've struggled it's not a wonder if what with what you've heard, what top down messaging has been that you haven't achieved it yet. But don't give up because you absolutely can't. You haven't

Philip Pape: 59:29

done it yet. And you can That's the message and that's a great message. So thank you David for coming on. Where can listeners learn more about you and your work?

David Greenwalt: 59:37

I'll keep it simple when I when I when I when I name this leanness lifestyle, you know, 24 years ago I don't you know if I didn't know what I was gonna be doing it this long. I probably would have made it a little easier. So just made the website a little easier, and that'd be the place to go. All our links to social are there too, but it's L L university.com.

Philip Pape: 59:55

l l university.com. I'll put those in the show notes so listeners can find you, David This was a pleasure. We covered so many topics just scratched the surface, I feel, but I really thank you for coming on the show.

David Greenwalt: 1:00:06

You bet it was a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Philip Pape: 1:00:09

If you've been inspired by today's interview, and are ready to take action and build momentum on your health and fitness journey, just schedule a free 30 minute nutrition momentum call with me using the link in my show notes. I promise not to sell or pitch you on anything, but I will help you gain some perspective and guidance so we can get you on the right track toward looking and feeling your best