Philip Pape: 0:00

having a home gym is a great time-saving hack. It's a huge excuse obliterator for so many people if you can do it, and the other thing that surprises people is the investment in a power rack, a bar and plates is probably about the same as getting a whole set of dumbbells. Maybe not quite, but it's not that far off. Yeah, welcome to the Wits and Weights podcast. I'm your host, philip Pape, and this twice-a-week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self-mastery by getting stronger, optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition. We'll uncover science-backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset, with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in Wits and Weights community. Welcome to another bonus episode of the Wits and Weights podcast.

Philip Pape: 0:54

This conversation is from my appearance on Jen Roulon's podcast, the Everyday Healthy Human. Jen invited me on her show to discuss the importance of evidence-based fitness and nutrition, debunk the need for excessive cardio to lose weight and emphasize the benefits of lifting heavy. You'll learn about the significance of building habits and non-negotiables in achieving long-term success, and I shared my personal journey and offered advice for those going through a change. Throughout our conversation, we highlighted the importance of focusing on strength, adopting a flexible approach to nutrition and finding joy in the process of transformation. You'll learn why an evidence-based approach is crucial for navigating the often confusing world of fitness and nutrition. Enjoy my conversation with Jen Roulon on the Everyday Healthy Human Podcast.

Jen Rulon: 1:45

Hello, hello everybody, and welcome to the Everyday Healthy Human Podcast. I am your host, jen Rulon, or you may know me on the gram as Coach Jen. Well, today I have a guest that I am super excited about because, as you all know, I am obsessed with strength training. As you all know, I am obsessed with strength training living longer than we could ever imagine, and I connected with Philip on Podmatch and Podmatch has been very good about connecting podcasters and guests to bring it on your podcast. So, philip, and I'm going to botch your name and I meant to ask you this beforehand Pap, pape it, pape, it's Pape, pape, philip, pape. Welcome to the Every Day Healthy Human podcast.

Philip Pape: 2:31

Thanks, jen. Coach Jen, so great to be here. I love your podcast as well. Thank you, thank you.

Jen Rulon: 2:36

Can you share with my followers a little bit about who you are, and then we'll dive even deeper?

Philip Pape: 2:42

Sure, I mean, before we started recording, I mentioned that I'm first and foremost a father. I'm also a husband, so I'm kind of a protector provider and that gives me the purpose in a lot of what I do. But as far as my background, my business, I am a podcaster and I'm also a certified nutrition coach and what I call physique engineer I think I made up that term, I haven't seen it anywhere else and I say it in that order because many coaches happen to have a podcast. But my love for helping people actually began with my show back in late 2021, after I'd gone through my own personal transformation, because that was, for me, a platform where I could reach other like-minded people, and by that I mean very curious, very driven action takers who were frustrated right With not being able to get the results they wanted whether it's physique, energy, what have you and are also very skeptical of the fitness industry and the confusing mixed messages that we constantly hear Okay, amazing yes.

Philip Pape: 3:43

So I spent I mean gosh, I spent two decades of my life. I'm in my forties now and I like to say that I'm getting younger with every year of age. That's my goal right now to yeah, no. And I wasted my time, honestly on on things like fad diets, right, keto, paleo. I did intermittent fasting. I did eight years killing myself in CrossFit and I didn't. Yeah, I did eight years killing myself in CrossFit and I didn't so did I? Yeah, I know.

Philip Pape: 4:08

And you did the Ironman, which I couldn't even imagine yeah, no, but I didn't really feel like a everyday, healthy human across any dimension, right. Physique, energy, performance, all of that. I was just kind of going through life, and that really messes with your confidence, right. It makes you question what's even possible to achieve, whatever your goal is, whether it's your best body or best health, and sometimes you say, like my genetics are what they are, or it is my lot in life, no matter what I do, but I'm not the type to give up, right?

Philip Pape: 4:42

And so I was turning 40 in late 2000 or in 2020, which we know what happened that year so I had a lot of time on my hands, working from home to seek out information and learn a ton related to fitness and lifting from coaches, books, videos, you name it, podcasts, of course and I finally stumbled into this amazing world of evidence-based fitness and nutrition that I am totally in love with today.

Philip Pape: 5:09

I'm enamored with it because it gave me information that worked for the first time, that I could actually get results from. So that year I took that information, I experimented, I moved from the high intensity bootcamp style training that I learned from CrossFit over to lifting heavy, making steady progress, progressive overload, getting stronger, building muscle, and then that tied into nutrition, where I realized I needed to learn how to eat better as well to fuel the performance, not to lose weight. And so I can go on and on. I love to talk because I have my own podcast, jen, but really long story short, I started seeing the results myself in the mirror, in my mind, and I wanted to teach people, and so I combined that with my love of engineering and systems and data and started helping people optimize their health, optimize their physique and get the confidence to know what to do, how to do it and actually make it happen.

Jen Rulon: 6:10

So you did high-intensity training, you did CrossFit. Did you feel like you were in shape at that time, before 2020? Did you feel like, oh, I'm in pretty decent shape?

Philip Pape: 6:23

Yes and no. I had great conditioning. So my zone four, zone five, cardio was like through the roof VO2 max, low, hrv, all that and so I felt great in that respect. I also very much enjoyed group classes, the community, and I enjoyed the fact that I could use a barbell, which I had never used before until I joined CrossFit. So not to take away from it, but I wasn't getting. I was sort of flat lining and plateauing. I wasn't getting past the point I wanted to and I definitely didn't felt strong and my body was getting kind of achy and recovery was getting harder to come by and all of those things. That's what led me to switch it up.

Jen Rulon: 7:02

Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I talk with my clients every week and a lot of them are starting their. You know, they're four weeks in and they're like, but I'm not sore from strength training and I'm like because I don't want you to be sore, Like you're feeling the right way, You're doing the workouts the right way. You know I'm not trying to trash your body and doing a hundred squats or what's the one.

Philip Pape: 7:29

The one of the workouts was like 150 wall balls and then whatever you have left, you try to do muscle ups, burpees, whatever yeah.

Jen Rulon: 7:37

Like, and the point is like, like you said, not taking away from CrossFit because I think it's done a lot of good for society, but I also want people to realize that, no, you don't have to wake up sore every single day. That's not the point.

Philip Pape: 7:51

There's so many things people chase, thinking that it's correlated with the outcome, like soreness. And when you start lifting heavy in a lower rep range and you're doing more or less the same movements over time, your body adapts really quickly to that and will not get sore if you're eating and sleeping enough. So if you are getting sore, it could be a negative thing. Not always right. If you're doing hypertrophy or bodybuilding movements, new movements will introduce soreness and certain forms of cardio will introduce soreness and so on.

Jen Rulon: 8:19

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So let's talk about debunking a few things, because I think that's really good for a lot of us, a lot of my followers, even a lot of my clients, and I think my clients are finally recognizing like the strength training thing isn't bad. I have people come to me they say hey, jen, I want to lose weight, I want to lose 10 to 15 pounds. You know I need to do more cardio, I need to do more and you know not do a lot of weight. So can you talk a little bit about? You know people feel like they need to do more cardio to lose weight.

Philip Pape: 8:58

First of all, losing weight in and of itself. And if a client ever comes to me saying I need to lose weight, we have. I like to have a conversation around the mindset behind why and what. Why is a number so important? And let's talk about fat loss versus weight loss, versus what are you really going for? And if I pick like a hundred people off the street and said what do you want out of your fitness, they'd say I want to look great, I want to feel great, like that's. That's generally what most people want. Yes, well, why do you think losing 10 pounds is going to get you there, right? Let me ask women who are listening how many times you have dieted and have lost successfully 10 or 20 pounds? Many times, right, jen. Many times. Many times, right. Did it make you happy? Right? Did it make you happy?

Philip Pape: 9:39

In contrast, wouldn't you rather be in a situation where you feel great, you get to eat a lot more food, eat whatever you want pretty much and the things that you enjoy, not feel guilty about it either and also get leaner, toner, tighter, and this fitter body at a higher body weight, which is, I think, what you're going for? You're not going to get bulky. I can't get bulky. I'm a dude and it's hard to get as big as I would love to get. So, yeah, I think the myth is starting to come around with a lot of people, because I hear a lot of women coming to me saying like I want to build muscle? Awesome, let's do it. You're going to eat. You're going to eat a lot, but that's okay. You might gain a tiny bit of fat along the way, but we're going to cut that off, no problem, and you're going to be leaner and fitter as a result.

Jen Rulon: 10:26

Yeah, it's, and it's interesting, I go. You said something about like eating what you want. Like I've had many clients be like oh, but I had some potatoes, that's okay, have potatoes. Like I want you to eat how you normally eat. If you go to Chick-fil-A every Friday with your kids, like make the right choice in, take everything out, and then you drop all this weight and then you leave me for not coaching anymore, right? And then all of a sudden you gain it back plus.

Philip Pape: 10:58

Yeah, I just did an episode called the Freedom of no More Cheat Meals because I want people to get away from the idea that there is anything to cheat against. If you feel like you're cheating, you're making a moral decision. We don't want our food choices to cause guilt, because there's a good and a bad. We want to pick things that are aligned with our goals, that fuel our workouts, that help us sleep better, that help with our hormones da-da-da-da-da-da-da and that could be low carb, high carb, medium carb, high protein, low. Well, no, it's all fairly high protein, but that's a non-negotiable. It's all fairly high protein, but that's a non-negotiable. But it's a flexible approach, right?

Philip Pape: 11:37

And it's funny you mentioned potatoes because, like just yesterday, I had a client check in where my feedback to her during fat loss she's now in a fat loss phase after having built muscle for like six months was. She said you know, she's having a little bit of hunger at a certain time of day, and it was around a workout and I said have you tried potatoes? Because potatoes give you carbs, but they're also the most satiating food on the planet. And she's like oh, I forgot about that and I have this fear around it. But thanks for reminding me. I'm going to incorporate potatoes again.

Jen Rulon: 12:01

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I look back at my nutrition journey and I've talked about this on my podcast I hated nutrition because I grew up with the mom, the grandma, the aunts always on a diet and so when I would want a burger and fries, I would have to justify it and be like, oh well, I just rode six hours, so of course I can go have a burger and fry. And it was a long time for me to snap out of that unhealthy thought process behind food.

Philip Pape: 12:33

Yeah, and it leads to other things that shouldn't have to exist, such as the idea of trigger foods. So like I hardly use that term, in my practice at least, and for me it's a lot of mindset and psychology, jen right.

Philip Pape: 12:45

So if you use some of these, terms I get it, but, like the idea of a trigger food implies that there's this thing that's outside of you that's going to cause you to just lose control and your emotions are going to take over. As opposed to let's identify those situations and the emotions we get from them and plan ahead and put something in place that kind of blocks that right. And by that I mean how about have the foods that are your trigger foods on a frequent basis, in small amounts, so they don't trigger you anymore? That's just one of many strategies. So it's getting control of your body and your mind through these practices, rather than thinking that we're beholden to those situations.

Jen Rulon: 13:28

I noticed too with the clients I've been working with is that they start tracking. They start looking at things and they're like, oh, I can have that, that does fit my macros, and I'm like y'all can have a donut if you want, like I'm okay with that, but just track it and see where it sits. And then maybe your carbohydrates, you know, but maybe you had a donut and you just went skiing for five hours. You know like it's okay to have that, just track it.

Philip Pape: 13:55

You know Exactly, yeah, and even like you can tell with the language. When they say, well, I was good or bad, or I will do better, it's like no, let's reframe that Like there's no good or bad, there's just reality, there's information and there's the data. Like you said, tracking and monitoring is one of the best things we can do. People will say, oh, it's too tedious to track. Well, I don't know. When you have to go on a big trip, do you track your budget to see where the money is going? You just do the same for the energy coming into your body.

Philip Pape: 14:29

Oh, it's funny because last year I did a very brief, fairly aggressive fat loss phase for myself as an experiment with some of my clients, and it's way more aggressive than normally I would recommend. But we were training hard, we were eating a lot of protein. It was two weeks long. I intentionally set two days within those two weeks to go out to eat just to show people here's how you can plan ahead. And it reminded me that it's hard but totally doable. And I remember going to this really nice restaurant where I would normally have like a lot right and I'm like, okay, I've got to have the scallops, They've got some alcohol-free rum so I can enjoy some what seems like a beverage. You know, get the nice huge salad Like. You can make easy choices as long as you plan ahead and easily hit even very aggressive macros if you had them.

Jen Rulon: 15:09

Right, agreed. I still remember my professor at University of Texas, san Antonio, for my master's degree, and he's like you know, he's like is broccoli good for you? Is a donut bad for you? And it's like and that's the very common question, because Oprah magazine says that you know, and so people read that and they think, oh my God, it's like well, you know what I just got done with an Ironman, I'm sure, I'm sure going to have a donut the next day, right, because my body is like I need food. Is eating a piece of broccoli going to help me? You know, probably not as much as you know I need the calories. You know, I need to feel that tank I wanted to talk to you about. You talk a lot about the importance of lifting heavy, but what does that exactly mean, and can you talk a little bit about that?

Philip Pape: 16:01

Yeah, lifting heavy is relative to you, but it also means focusing on strength as a beginner.

Philip Pape: 16:10

So I like when I have a beginning client who's never lifted before start their strength training regimen three days a week, full body lifting in the four to six rep range for big compound lifts, and that's it. Super simple, it's time, efficient, it's only like four movements to learn so you can practice form and get better at them quickly. And guess what? All I want you to do is increase the weight every time you go to the gym on those lifts. The first three, four, five sessions it may not feel quote, unquote heavy, but pretty soon, by doing the same number of sets and reps and just increasing the weight, it's going to start hitting your limit, it's going to start getting close to that limit. But if you can get them in and then you sleep and eat, you'll be able to lift a little more next time and next time and next time. That's what I mean by lifting heavy Progressive overload, progress over time and causing your body to adapt and build strength and muscle. And I know what compound movements are.

Jen Rulon: 17:09

Can you explain to the followers what that?

Philip Pape: 17:11

compound movements are. Sure, that's just a lift that uses multiple joints on your body. So that would be a squat, a deadlift, a press, a bench press, and there's a whole bunch of other ones like rows or accessory movements that are considered. Even pull-ups would be compound, and the reason I love them is because they use more muscle mass. They use more muscle groups for the same amount of time, so they're very time efficient. But also you can lift them very heavy if you're using barbells or even dumbbells, where you're recruiting the bigger muscle fibers and that contributes to the motor pattern that we're trying to develop as we get stronger. That then leads to developing more muscle mass. So again, beginners, it's like if you can focus on strength, you'll make a lot of progress and, like you know, double all your lifts pretty quickly within a few months. Then you do all the more fun stuff like body part splits and bodybuilding movements and whatnot no-transcript.

Philip Pape: 18:39

You don't. You know you don't want to compare to other people, right it's? You're trying to beat your own PRs and if you're a beginner you could. You could start with body weight, you can start with bands, you can start with an empty bar, it doesn't matter. Like I'm not going to judge you for any of that. Eventually, once you get strong enough, you're probably going to need free weights or really good machines like cable machines and stuff that can load you up pretty, pretty intensely.

Jen Rulon: 18:59

For sure. And I think and I think a lot of people think that, oh, I got to go to the ball, I got to go to the gym to lift the weights. No, I mean, 2020 taught us that, right? Yeah for sure. 2020 taught us like, hey, get some dumbbells or kettlebells, because they're going to sell out real quick. Bikes are going to sell out real quick because we had no outlet to go to, and that's you know. We started developing. You know, back in the States, I started developing a gym and here in Costa Rica I have a whole bunch of kettlebells, dumbbells. I have a bench because if I can't make it to the gym, I can go out right to my patio and do what I need to do.

Philip Pape: 19:33

So oh, I'd love to work out. Yeah, you're in Costa Rica and I'm in Connecticut, so for me it's in the room over my garage. It's really cool. But it's funny how many people I've convinced to buy a rack and barbell, you know like for their home gym, because having a home gym is a great time saving hack. It's a huge excuse obliterator for so many people if you can do it. And the other thing that surprises people is the investment in like a power rack, a bar and plates is probably about the same as getting a whole set of dumbbells, like maybe, maybe not quite, but it's not that far off.

Jen Rulon: 20:05

Yeah, that's so true, and it's interesting you were talking about this because I was at a gym for a long time here in Costa Rica, in Samara, and they were very limited to kettlebells and dumbbells. And then I went back to the States and I ended up staying there for two months because mom fell and had to take, and so I was like I need to go back to CrossFit. I just I, I just needed to go in, get my workout in and leave, and it made me realize how much I, how much I miss getting under a bar, like doing squats and doing deadlifts. And so then, when I returned to Costa Rica, I was like I need to find a gym that's got leg press, machine bars, you know uh, racks, you know whatever. And I found it and I am so much I look different, I look healthier, I look better because I feel, because of really focusing on that those compound movements I mean I, I have.

Philip Pape: 21:12

I've not met anyone, even women, who do it right and say they don't like it. Like, so I have. I've had a lot of clients or people listen to podcasts say, well, I don't really like lifting weights. I'm like, well, how do you lift weights? Well, you know, I go and I figure out what I want to do when I get to the gym and I use these machines and I do 10 to 15 rep and I'm like, okay, and you're doing the same weight over and over again.

Philip Pape: 21:32

That sounds boring, as you know what like like to me, that's that sounds boring. No wonder you don't like lifting weights. How about if you do these, these big movements where you feel like a badass? Right, you feel big and strong. Like, again, women, you know that that I work with you know love that just as much as men. Like there's, no, there's, there's too many stereotypes about all this. I know you, women love being strong and capable, right? So, um, I'm like, just do that for a few weeks and see the numbers go up and I'm like, I'm benching more than I ever benched before after, like you know, three weeks or whatever. It's cause you never tried right in the past and now we're doing it in this programmatic way and then you get hooked, you get hooked. It's like a game you just want to keep getting stronger.

Jen Rulon: 22:10

I noticed you said something about habits and that's something that I really have worked on for myself my habits, my non-negotiables and then I share that with the clients that I work with mostly women that I'm like we got to get on habits and so I will go into their program. I'm like, okay, did you get your 90 ounces of water today? Did you do this? Did you do that? What do you think is helpful for people and building habits and building those non-negotiables in life?

Philip Pape: 22:42

Yeah, my thoughts have changed a lot on this over the past few years. The main thing most people do that's, I guess, wrong is try to do too much right this time of year. We're in January, recording this and you have New Year's resolutions right, and it's fine to set a goal. I'm all for goals and I set goals all throughout the year, all the time. But you set a goal and then you're like I'm going to do these 15 things that I didn't do in December and I'm going to start doing them.

Philip Pape: 23:10

This. You know, I'm going to walk 12,000 steps, I'm going to go to the gym five days a week and I'm going to quote unquote eat clean, right, and so that's where you fall on your face. You're trying to push your comfort zone like way beyond, where like stretch to its limits and beyond. So just take one or two things that are a small push on your comfort zone. If you have a desk job and you sit around all day and you track your steps and you get 3,000 steps. Add in a walk after lunch for 20 minutes. That'll get you 2,000 more steps. Simple.

Philip Pape: 23:41

Now, if you're like, well, I don't like walking, or blah, blah, blah, take hold of the excuses and start to hammer them down like whack-a-mole, one after another, and say why does this have to be the case? Right, like, let's get rid of those excuses. You don't like walking? Well, what if you listen to a podcast? Listen to Jen's podcast while you're walking, right, or yours, yeah, or mine.

Philip Pape: 23:59

Go out in nature and get some vitamin C, listen to some music? Right, like, there's a million things you can do. Lifting weights same thing. If you want to lift weights, don't just go to the gym five days a week. Step one find a plan, like. Step two write it out. Step three get your gym bag ready so you don't have excuses in the morning. Little things like that that. You have to take one step forward, another step, and if you're 80% consistent, that's way more than what most people achieve. Like, people have zero days all the time. Don't have zero days, but you don't have to be perfect. And if you do that and you kind of build on that, it helps to have accountability like a coach or a community, like a Facebook group or a community or a friend. It helps a lot to have that.

Jen Rulon: 24:41

Uh-huh Agreed, and that's what I loved. I mean, that's what I loved about CrossFit. It was a great community and then even the gym that I had even here at Samara and then even in San Antonio when I lived there. The community was fantastic. But now I've gotten to a point where I'm so motivated I don't need a class, I can go in and get my stuff done and out the door, you know, it's bam, bam, bam, bam. Put the beats on and you know, listen to some Dr Dre and I'm golden.

Philip Pape: 25:09

Yeah, big fan. And one more thing I was going to say is people listen to our shows, probably binge a lot of podcasts, and all I would encourage the listeners to do is don't just consume. Take action based on the shows that you trust the most and use that as another motivator, extrinsic motivator, as part of your journey to move forward.

Jen Rulon: 25:33

That's great. That's beautiful. Philip, where can I could keep this conversation?

Philip Pape: 25:37

going to be honest with you.

Jen Rulon: 25:39

Holy cow, this is good stuff I might have to bring you back for if people have more questions. But where can people find?

Philip Pape: 25:46

you I'll say two places the podcast wits and weights. So go follow it right now, wits and weights, and then send me a message on Instagram at wits and weights.

Jen Rulon: 25:56

Perfect. So final question and I ask this all the time Butterflies have played a big role in my life and butterflies are all about that transformation, that change right. They're going from that caterpillar to the cocoon to, all of a sudden, that metamorphosis into that beautiful butterfly. For somebody that might be going through a change, what piece of advice would you give them to keep going on that path?

Philip Pape: 26:27

Somebody who's going through a change. I guess what we just talked about of not trying to do too much, because the change itself can be a stressor on your body right and on your mind, and so I would look at that as a new adventure in life, this new phase of life whether it's post-career or post-menopause or whatever the transition is that you're going through as an opportunity to take advantage of a new phase in life. Whatever has changed for you has given you things that you may not have had before. So be positive, think of it, not what you've lost, but what you've gained, and go after that. That's great, I love it. Go after that. That's great, I love it. Platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.