Barry Karch: 0:00

I've had a talk with myself. And I'm like, if you want to live a long and healthy life, it's time to make a change. I can't keep going in this direction. And I always intended to make a change at some point in my life, but I kept waiting for myself to have the strength to do it. I never did. But finally, I guess just the big H come in. And like I need to do something now or screen now or never.

Philip Pape: 0:25

Welcome to the Wits& Weights podcast. I'm your host, Philip pape, and this twice a week podcast is dedicated to helping you achieve physical self mastery by getting stronger. Optimizing your nutrition and upgrading your body composition will uncover science backed strategies for movement, metabolism, muscle and mindset with a skeptical eye on the fitness industry, so you can look and feel your absolute best. Let's dive right in. Wits& Weights community Welcome to another episode of the Wits & Weights Podcast. Today I have a very special guest with me. He is a runner, a podcaster and a man who's defied age and gravity. His name is Barry Karcher, and he's the creator and host of running for your life. A podcast that inspires people to take control of their health and start running at any age. He was kind enough to have me on his show to talk about strength training and nutrition. And I wanted to bring his perspective as a runner to this show, since it's a topic I admit we rarely discuss. In this episode, we dive into various transformative journey from burnout to vitality through the power of running very shares how reclaiming his love for running in his 60s became more than a weight loss strategy. It morphed into a philosophy for life. Whether discussing the secret of lasting motivation or how to defy the limitations of age. Various insights offer sound principles for anyone looking to seize control of their health at any stage of life. Very became an avid runner as he approached his 40s he participated in as many as 20 races a year ranging from one mile to marathons and everything in between. He qualified for and ran the Boston Marathon. And after five years of intense training and running, he got burned out, he stopped racing for 20 years. The bad news was that he kept eating like he was running marathons, his weight kept going up and up until he had added 35 pounds. He kept asking himself when he was going to do something about the weight but was never motivated enough to take action. Finally, when he reached his 60s, he got the determination to do something about the weight. He felt like if you wanted to live a long and healthy life, it was now or never. He changed his diet, the weight came off all 35 pounds. And as a side effect, and unexpected thing happened, he started to enjoy running again, really enjoy it much more than when he was younger. He's begun racing again, with great results. He feels rejuvenated, like he found a part of himself that was missing for 20 years. And he created the running for your life podcast to share his joy of running and encourage others to take control of their health and that it's never too late to get fit start to get fit starting to run. His goal is to have his listeners join him in outrunning Father Time. Barry, welcome to the show.

Barry Karch: 3:04

Thanks, Phillip. That's quite an introduction. You blow away my podcasts you do much better than I do on the introductions.

Philip Pape: 3:11

No, no, we're not. We're not we're not comparing we all have our different styles. This is this is my thing. It's all good. No, I appreciate because I want people to understand who you are, where you come from, and kind of get that background settled. And now what we can do is dive a little bit deeper. What I really want to know right off the bat is what is running mean to you.

Barry Karch: 3:31

To me running is youth running as life running is energy as being alive. It's just, it's feeling happy. I love feeling my heartbeat. Hearing my breathing when I'm going out running, I never feel more alive than when I'm running.

Philip Pape: 3:49

Alright, so being alive having energy, youth, vitality, all of that, which is interesting, because I also think like, like many forms of training and exercise, whether it's lifting weights, or a sport, we have to enjoy it right? Otherwise, we're not going to stick with it. What would you say to people who don't have the same passion for running yet? When you say look, it's energy, it's life. And they say, it sounds exhausting. What do you tell them? Tell them?

Barry Karch: 4:17

Well, you have to start like anything else. You start gradually. You don't need to start running one mile three miles, five miles your first run, you can start very easily comfortable pace even run a minute or two and then walk a minute or two and then run again another minute or two and see how you feel. See if you don't find that you do look forward to going outside. I like running in the morning. Early everyone has different times they like but I love seeing the sunrise. I like seeing the day start. I like hearing the birds chirp and seeing the trees that just there's nothing like it so I would suggest just starting very slow and easy if you've never run before and and do a run walk mixture

Philip Pape: 4:59

that's That's good advice. So you've kind of been in love with running, then you lost it, you lost the passion. And then you came came back to you, right? So you had achieved all these feats impressive feats like the Boston Marathon in your 40s. And then you got burned out. So tell us about that.

Barry Karch: 5:16

Yeah, entirely different areas of my life. When I didn't run, until, as you mentioned, my later 30s, and I hooked up with a group of friends. And we all train together. And which was good, good and bad. I guess at the same time, it was good, because it's a lot easier to run with other people than being by yourself all the time. So that was good about it, we had great camaraderie. The bad was, we always pushed ourselves so hard in that we never had an easy day or easy run. Every run, we're pushing ourselves to the limits of our abilities, which I learned later on in life is really not the best way to train. A more appropriate way is you should have one or two hard days a week. But the other day should be very easy. effort level about three out of 10. So you're just going very easy, slow jog and enjoying yourself. We never did that. We killed ourselves every day. And so there got to be a point where I just felt like, I couldn't put myself through this anymore. Mentally, physically, it was just getting to be too much and not enjoyable. And I just I was trying to think of a way to tell my friend that I wanted to stop training with him, because we'd done it for five years, and we were pretty good friends. Well, he beat me to the punch kind of one more. And one morning, I showed up for a run. And he told me he said, Barry, I got news for you. I'm moving out of town. So I never told him to tell him I didn't want to do it anymore. So yeah. Oh,

Philip Pape: 7:02

yeah, that's such a common theme. I mean, even today, you know, I hear people who get get burned out for one reason or another usually gets to the point where it becomes a chore and it becomes stressful in their body. And they're not recovering whatever it is, whatever form of exercise, maybe you do the spinning all the time, or maybe, maybe lift but you do it seven days a week, and maybe should be doing it three days a week. It's a really important message for people to consider, because we want to separate the running itself from the mode with which you incorporated it. So over the 20 years that you were not running, did you try any other forms of exercise or training and what were they?

Barry Karch: 7:41

Yes, after my friend moved out of town, that's when the next phase began the 20 years. I did continue to run. But I always ran. But there was a huge, huge difference. I slowed it down to a jog. I just did very slow, easy jogs. I didn't compete, I did not race for 20 years. I lost all that type of fitness. And I never could really run more than three miles. There's nothing wrong with three miles, except for where I was before, where I was doing the 26.2 marathons. I couldn't I never went more than about three miles anymore. And one time during that period, I decided, You know what, I want to try to run a marathon again. And I enlisted in a training group, I never could get the eight miles and I was totally burned out and could not do it. So I did, I guess you would call it run was more like a slow jog. So the style change the duration of it changed down to three miles. Other things I did I do lift weights too. I continued to lift weights throughout the whole 20 year period. And I still do now not to the extent you do, but I do that. Did I do any other sports really, I did a little bit of swimming. I'm terrible at swimming. But I did a little bit of that just to take away the pounding on the body, the legs. So I would I would do a little cross training there. I did a little bit on the elliptical machine again when I didn't want the pounding on the legs relax, couldn't handle it. That was about it though. That's about what I did.

Philip Pape: 9:21

Yeah, you were trying to so it sounds like you're trying to maintain your conditioning, your cardiovascular health things like that with those other modalities as opposed to being competitive anymore at the time.

Barry Karch: 9:30

I tried to maintain my health but it did go way down from where I was I wasn't in that peak running condition anymore.

Philip Pape: 9:37

Well so then that leads me to what helped you fall in love with running again. I think it was changing your diet correct me if I'm wrong. What was that what it was?

Barry Karch: 9:46

Yeah, this was all an accident. I never anticipated running again. I never anticipated having a running podcast. I never anticipated being here on your show. So this is like all like wow, I can't believe I'm doing all this now. I just decided But as you mentioned, I kept putting on more and more and more weight. Every time I went to the doctor, I weighed more and more and more and more, until I was 35 pounds beyond my racing weight, which is quite a bit. And I was always trying to kid myself that yeah, I still look good. I was looking in the mirror, I guess I hold my stomach in and like, I don't look too bad. But I was kind of kidding myself about that. I kept having to buy bigger and bigger and bigger waist sizes on the pants. I went up six sizes on the waist. So I guess I put on quite a bit of weight there. And I have this horrible, sweet tooth. I just love sweets, which shouldn't make things easier for me. I love chocolate. I love ice cream,

Philip Pape: 10:43

chocolate and ice cream. Right? They're my two favorites, too. I wonder how many how many people can say that.

Barry Karch: 10:48

I know. I'm kind of jealous of people. Every once a while I run into someone that doesn't like chocolate and like I'm kind of jealous of them. Yeah, it's kind of a good thing. But I enjoy eating that stuff more than I cared about the weight. I guess I was just happy the way I was like it putting on weight putting on weight. And I finally when I hit my 60s, I had a talk with myself. And like, if you want to live a long and healthy life, it's time to make a change. I can't keep going in this direction. And I always intended to make a change. At some point in my life, I kept waiting for myself to have the strength to do it. I never did. But finally, I guess just the big age come in. And like I need to do something now or it's me now or never. So I did change my diet. And I went to kind of a strange diet for a runner. But I went to a low carb diet, because runners tend to love the carbs. But I went to a low carb diet because I had done that briefly years ago. And I knew it worked. So I did it. And I stayed on the low carb diet for about a year. It was hard very hard for me. But I took off all the way. So it did. It did work. And you asked how I got back into running. I wasn't intending to get back into racing whatsoever. But then once I took all the weight off, just one day, my wife casually asked me, she says, are you planning to do any races anymore? And I honestly never thought about it. And like I guess I could I guess I could see you know what I could do now because I've been 20 years. And so I signed up for 5k race, which for the listeners who aren't runners as 3.1 miles. And I ran it considerably slower than I ran 20 years ago. But I read the thing, and I guess there's a few benefits on getting old. There's less competition. And so a different class like a different class. And I ended up first place in my age group. So that was really encouraging for me like, wow, I got first in my age group, and I didn't really have the train for it. So I started thinking what can I do next now. And so I decided to do a half marathon, which is 13.1 miles. I did that this past December. And that's my first half marathon in 20 years. And this one I get trained for.

Philip Pape: 13:13

So you had hit a wall years ago with like the eight miles because you were so burned out? Yeah. Is it? Was there some sense of recovery overall at time of not running? And now are you doing in a different way that's more sustainable and quote unquote, healthy?

Barry Karch: 13:28

entirely different? Yeah, yeah. I used to not be able to run more than three days a week. And that's because I come to find out now I've become friends with a running coach. And I had no coach back, then I come to find out I was running wrong. Back in those days, as I mentioned, I was doing every run was a hard run, which is the mistake. So now, I'm able to run five days a week, which I never did before. Three, my days are very easy. And I try to keep them as I mentioned, around a three out of 10 effort level. And then I have two hard days. One day is what we call a speed run day where I run shorter intervals. But at high intensity and a much higher speed. The purpose of that is to get used to running fast. So when you run a race, like a half marathon or 5k, your race pace is slower than the speed run intervals. So the race pace feels easier. That's the purpose of it to make your race pace feel easy. Makes sense. So I have one day a week as a speed run. And we call it interval runs. And then one day we kind of weekend, I do the long run to gear up for the endurance needed for a half marathon or a marathon. So yeah, that's what I'm doing entirely differently now than I used to do.

Philip Pape: 14:54

Yeah, I like that approach because it sounds I mean, from what I understand about running, you know, there's the skill component there's the power Hour and there's a strength, it's kind of like all these different things. And what it sounds like you're doing is managing your fatigue and managing your stress and recovery so that you can continue. It reminds you of like, again, in lifting, you don't want to always test your max constantly test your max, you're gonna get burned out, or eating, you don't want to constantly dieting, you know, you're gonna get burned out. So it's a good principle. And so for people who are interested in running right off the bat listening to this show, don't go don't go crazy, even if you're 25. You know, they'll do a very did when he was back in his 20s 30s or whatever, take take this kind of more measured approach, because the what is what's the phrase like? Not taking shortcuts is actually the faster path, you know, taking the long game is actually the fastest path to success. What did you have to change in your mind to to, I guess, not only lose weight and get back to like your previous health, but get back to the sport? Was it just signing up for the 5k? And you were you were sold? or was there some more reflection that you had to go through?

Barry Karch: 16:00

Well, I guess doing the 5k in and ended up coming in first place was like, the big wake up, wow, yes, very motivated, like, wow, I can still do this. And I hadn't really like I said to him really trained for it. So it got me really psyched up. And I felt like, as you mentioned, the intro, I found a long lost part of myself because I, I'm kind of a competitive person, and I enjoy the racing and that environment. And so I just really enjoyed it and decided, You know what I want to see what else I'm capable of. And I don't have I think maybe now at this stage in my life, I'm just thrilled with whatever I can do. Being in my 60s and running, I'm just happy to be able to do it. Because a lot of people can't anymore due to health issues, whatever problems with their back problems with their knees, hip replacements, all kinds of things. So I'm just thankful I can do this. And so I'm just absolutely thrilled with whatever I can do rather than being so dead set on. Time. What What was my pace is I wasn't my early days.

Philip Pape: 17:13

Right? So speaking of that, the physical challenges as you age, if somebody were not if somebody had a sedentary lifestyle to this point, and now they're in their 50s, or 60s, would you recommend running as an activity? Or? Or maybe, you know, do something else for a while before you would consider running? What What's your advice there?

Barry Karch: 17:33

Well, I would highly recommend running. Again, someone who hasn't run before can start out with a run walk mix. But I highly recommend running for a couple of reasons. I think your most important muscle in your body is probably your heart. So cardio health is super important. I think I like exercising the heart and being very healthy that way. Plus, I believe that running also strengthens the bones. It strengthens the bones a lot from the running. So it does a lot of good for you in your in your health. And now I'm able to get around and do things that the majority people my age and even younger aren't able to do. And it's all thanks to running. So I think it's an important piece. It's not the only piece. The weightlifting as you do is also very important to build muscle mass because you lose out over time also, as you get older. So I think they're both important pieces of the puzzle. But they both have a place.

Philip Pape: 18:38

Yeah, no, I would agree that the combination of those two things right resistance training for muscle and then some form of cardio, for cardio health and like you said bone density or bone health and everything.

Unknown: 18:50

Hi, my name is Lisa and I'd like to give big shout out to my nutrition coach Philip pape, with his coaching, I have lost 17 pounds, he helped me identify the reason that I wanted to lose weight, and it's very simple longevity. I want to be healthy, active and independent until the day I die. He introduced me to this wonderful little app called macro factor I got that part of my nutrition figured out along with that is the movement part of nutrition. There's a plan to it and really helped me with that. The other thing he helped me with was knowing that I need to get a lot of steps in so the more steps you have, the higher your expenditure is and the easier it is to lose weight when it's presented to you like he presents it it makes even more sense. And the other thing that he had was a hunger guide and that really helped me so thank you, but

Philip Pape: 19:35

how does someone stay motivated because running is one of those things at least in my mind. It can get repetitive, right? It just like almost any form of cardio you can see it as this like putting in the time or there's there's maybe a different way to frame it and a different way to do it that's more enjoyable. So how would you suggest people get motivated and stay motivated to run?

Barry Karch: 19:56

Okay, let me I got two questions here. I want To answer, how do you get motivated? And can it not be repetitive? And stay exciting? So, sure, let me start with how do you get motivated? You have to have your big why, why do I want to do this? Why do I want to run? And I'm sure you need the same Phillips for your exercising, because it's very easy just to lay in bed when and say I forget, I'll feel like it today. I'm not going to do it. Or I'm tired. I'm going to take the day off. What difference does it make? You need that big? Why? Why do you want to run? Why do you want to lift weights? For me, I want to live a long and healthy life, I really want to live a long and healthy life. And unlike everybody else, there's some days when I get up in the morning, that I'm less than motivated. I don't particularly feel like running. I'd like to lay in bed longer. But I think about it for just a second. Living a long healthy life is way more important to me the laying in bed for another 30 or 60 minutes. So I'm out of there in a sec. So that's my big why for someone else it could be they want to take some pounds off. They they want to train for a race or they some some other health issue going on that Ronny is going to solve. It could be self confidence could be anything. But whatever it is, you need your big why? Why do you want to do this? And it's going to have to be strong to get you going on the days you don't feel like it. Now, once you do run, how do you stay with it? Is it boring? Is it repetitive? My answer is no. Because it would be if everyone was the same. If I ran the same route every day, the same pace every day. That's boring. Yeah, I agree. But I'm doing different kinds of runs. I'm doing those slow, easy runs, we call them recovery runs, where you can just enjoy yourself and not have to worry about anything, just take it easy. I'm doing some speed work another day to test myself to see how fast I can go what I'm capable of. And then I'm doing a long run to see how far I can go, how strong I can feel for how long plus the runs are all different. I do some of them outside alone. Some of them I do. I use a Nike Run Club training app. And I have a Nike coach in my ear talking to me during the run. Sometimes I'll listen to music. So as I listen to podcasts like yours. Other times I'll be on a treadmill running in a gym. And on the weekends on my long runs, I'm typically running with a local running group. So I'm running with other people. So everyone is different. I enjoy them all.

Philip Pape: 22:54

Oh, yeah. And you just gave us the entire list of things that contribute to motivation for different people. I love that. I mean, the first of all, the the Y is definitely important. And I think of it as like, seasons or periodization. Right? Sometimes our y changes, or on any given day, you know, we may have three or four things really driving us but one is the most, you know, the big driver of that of that day. Because when people tell me they want to live a long, healthy life like you did. Sometimes that's not enough in the moment, right? It's not a short enough time kind of inspirational, but when they're like yeah, and I looked at myself in the mirror too. Okay, now I've got a couple different things. But you said you know, having a coach, habit stacking, you know, making it fun with using different variety, both with how you train where you train, what you train with equipment wise, running with a group, big fan of community, so like any of those people listening can can take one or two of those and figure out okay, here's how I can get a little creative and make my workouts more interesting. So thanks. Thanks, Mary. I love that you met you did mention one of the things that can drive people's competition. And I think you said that it helps to schedule at least one of those a year some some event each year that excites you and maybe scares you right maybe it's gonna push you a bit which which also ties in the idea of seasonality and goals and all that why do you recommend having a competition each year? You know what I

Barry Karch: 24:17

ran into this concept of a Muskogee from person by the name of Jesse Itzler. He didn't invent this concept, but he's the person who I learned it from. And what it is, is doing one big scary year defining event every year and that makes every year memorable too. So you can say all 2023 was a year I did this 2022 was the year I did that is something that excites you and scares you and challenges you and pushes you outside your comfort zone perhaps. And it doesn't have to be physical by the way. It can be going into business for yourself. It could be starting your own podcast. It could be getting married, it could be any number of things, taking learning to play guitar. It could be anything that's something different for you. But a challenge, something he wants to do and really gets you focus and makes life exciting. So that's the concept that came across from Jesse. And I never heard of it before. And it really intrigued me. Because I've never done that I never thought of it. And this year, I heard of an event, which coincidentally, Jesse is a co founder of, but it's called to nine, zero to nine is completely out of my comfort zone. It's a mountain hiking event. I've never hiked a mountain in my life. I've never hiked a mountain. I felt like I would have a good background for it with the cardio fitness from running and leg strength. But still, I'd never hiked. And so what it is the 29029 where the number comes from is that is the height of Mount Everest 29,029 feet. The goal in this event is to hike up, equip the equivalent of Mount Everest within 36 hours. And it's held in five different locations around the country. I went to Snowbasin Utah for the time I did I did it two months ago now. And on the every mountain is different where they hold it the mountain I was at required 13 a sense. You climb the mountain, you don't have to go down, you take the gondola down, it's all about the ascent, hike up gondola down, hike up gondola down, you got to do it 13 times within 36 hours to achieve a 29,029 foot vertical ascent. So that was my Masotti. For this year, I trained for super hard, they provide you with a 20 week training program. And they provide you with coaching calls. And I found that I really really love structured training. I love having this plan taught me what to do every day. And I found it to a tee. And even so it was still hard. It was still very, very hard.

Philip Pape: 27:12

emulsified. Great, though to finish it.

Barry Karch: 27:13

It was an awesome feeling to finish it. I was not going to come out of there. All that work. They give you a Red Hat If you complete it. A Red Hat signifies it ever said, but I was not going to come out of there without that Red Hat and I did manage to get it that was your goal right

Philip Pape: 27:28

to get it done.

Barry Karch: 27:29

I was gonna get that Red Hat No matter what. Yes, absolutely. Miss. Okay. Okay, I

Philip Pape: 27:33

love how you expanded this is broader. A Broader View on this than I even expected because I was thinking specifically, like an endurance event each year. And what you're saying is just pick one huge driving challenging goal each year, in any part of your life, which is it's great. I love that. Because now you now you got me thinking, you know, the end of 2023 is rolling around 2024. And it's not necessarily new year's resolution, although I guess you could make it that but it's like, yeah, what do you want to do in that year, that's just different than something you've done before that really pushes you. Now I'm gonna have to come up with something very thank you for the challenge.

Barry Karch: 28:09

Absolutely. Yeah. That's gonna be the year of

Philip Pape: 28:13

you know. And another thought that comes to mind there is even as you grow each year, right? You you challenge yourself. And there may be, there may be ways that you push yourself within what you're already doing. Like for me lifting, there's always seasons of building muscle, losing fat, whatever. But it almost gets too comfortable even when you're pushing yourself because you're used to how to do it right. Like you'd become good at it to where not not that it's complacent. But it's not what you're saying something that gets you to totally think differently. Reach out to new people get a different training program. Like just That sounds exciting. So I just My passion is coming through because people listening, I think this is a great thing to try. Yeah.

Barry Karch: 28:54

And Philip, I heard of an event years ago. I don't know the name of it. But it's a combination of weightlifting and running. And I can't remember what it is when they get something for you to look into to add something new to your knee to your repertoire that you haven't done yet.

Philip Pape: 29:08

True. True. True. You know, I do like sprinting I like when you talk about the speed work. I said I would love that day when you talked about tomorrow doing your 60 mile run. I don't know about that. But I had done it before years ago I was training for a half marathon didn't quite get there due to an injury. But yeah, I remember what you're saying I would run in different locations. I'd run along a canal I'd run on a like a flat trail I'd run on the road and it was nice to pair it up. Anyway. One of the other things I'm always curious about people who are passionate about a type of training is how it has helped other things in your life. Like well, how is it running and especially the way you do it now or even the journey you went through from doing it the wrong way in the past to doing it better now helped you others real life?

Barry Karch: 29:53

Yeah, good question, Philip. You know, it, it permeates the whole rest of your life. It turns out out, running isn't just about running, I've learned so many life lessons from it, I could go on and on. But basically, to summarize it all, it just provides so much self confidence, it makes me feel good about myself and what I'm able to do and accomplish. And it just gives me confidence in the other aspects of my life. And from work, to just something as simple as feeling like I look better now that I've dropped four to six sizes in the pants again, from what I went up to. But yeah, it's just overall self confidence, sense of accomplishment. That's helped so much and everything.

Philip Pape: 30:45

It is amazing how physical feats often have that translation, right? Because there's nothing more, I guess, visceral than doing something with your body and seeing it improve, especially now that you're 20 years older than you are at a different point and healthier. You know, I can I feel the same about, I don't know, squats or you know, something that you're doing. That's hard. You've done it, you've grown now. And now you look in the mirror and say, well, that's not as hard as it used to be there. That's progress. Right? And like you said, it makes you confident in other areas.

Barry Karch: 31:15

Exactly, exactly. And you know, in running, there always comes a point where it's gonna get really, really tough, and you're running hard, and you feel like quitting. But I push, I'm able to push through it and complete the run. And that also permeates into the rest of life. Because in work or everyday life, things don't always go easy, right? You run into difficulties, obstacles, sometimes you might want to just give up, but I'm like, No, I'm not a quitter, I'm gonna keep going and push through this and, and get through it. So that's just another thing you learn from from doing. Yes,

Philip Pape: 31:50

it's true. And I honestly think very, very few people. A sad, small percentage of people will do that. And the positive side of that is if you're listening to this, if you listen to bear, and you are the type that want to explore and become that that, you know, larger version of yourself, it'll put you in like the 2% of people, you know, that actually do that. So do you feel that you've outgrown Father Time for a while at this point?

Barry Karch: 32:16

I do. I would like to think so. I feel like I'm very healthy. I don't have any health elements. I feel like I'm running really good. I'm able to keep up with people younger than me, which always makes me feel really good about it. And most people that I run into actually think they think I'm younger than I actually am. Which also makes me feel good. Yeah. So I think I'm doing okay, for my age.

Philip Pape: 32:47

Yeah, I would agree when I first met you, I definitely looked younger than than your age for sure. Which comes with the vitality of staying healthy. What if somebody listening wants to get started running? What are some good resources for them?

Barry Karch: 33:03

Well, let's see. I get several. I love the Nike Run app. It's free, you can download it. And there's a bunch of guided runs on there. They're all distances, they have runs for beginners, they have like a five minute run a 10 minute run, they have a one mile run on there. But what's good about it is you have a coach in your ear talking to you while you're running the whole time, it kind of takes your mind off of it. And it gives you a motivation, inspiration. I really liked that. And some of their, some of their guided runs. They also utilize the GPS in your watch so that it knows how far you've gone. And it will, they'll talk to you at the half mile mark, the mile mark and so forth. They know when you reach those points to give you motivation and encouragement. So I've really, really enjoyed using that app. So that would be one I would recommend. Secondly, there's a lot of great running podcasts out there that you can listen to. And those are also good for putting on while you're running because they keep you motivated and determined to listen to other runners talk about things that you're going through yourself. So those are two really good resources, I think to get you going,

Philip Pape: 34:26

including of course running for your life. Barry's very own podcast so if you're listening and have any interest at all in running, definitely go follow that subscribe to it right now. And I'm gonna I'm gonna ask you one more question very that I ask all guests, and that is what one question Did you wish I had asked and what is your answer?

Barry Karch: 34:45

That's a hard one. I'm going to I'm going to give you the question would be What is your mindset? How do you keep going when your body is telling you to quit, stop. And that's something that I encounter on certainly all my long runs, and probably a lot of my speed runs to. It's like, I can't do this anymore. I don't know if I can, I gotta stop it. But so what do you do when you come to a situation, and for you fill up, I'm sure you're in that same situation, too. I'm not as familiar with weights as you are. But maybe you're there's a certain amount of weight you want to lift or certain numbers that you want to do, and you feel like I can't do anymore. I'm tired. You know, that's it for me. So I have a couple of things go through my mind at those times. Number one is I heard someone say, Remember tomorrow. And what that means is, how are you going to think about yourself tomorrow, if you quit now, I know for me, I am going to feel terrible, I'm going to be really upset at myself. If I stop, I'm going to be very disappointed in my effort. If I don't finish this run, and do what I intended to do. So I think how I'm gonna think about tomorrow, you're gonna have to go through a little short term pain to finish it. But the pain is going to end. And it won't be that long. And you're going to have all that long term satisfaction that you get out of it. Thinking that I did it, I can do this. Yeah, I'm not a quitter. So those are things that go through my mind when the going gets tough.

Philip Pape: 36:35

Love it. Remember tomorrow. And what you just said is you learn something about yourself by making that extra push to get through it, right? You mentioned the lifting weights, the equivalent would be the heaviest weight you've ever lifted. Let's say you're going for five reps, and you know, the third set and you've done three and it's just feels impossible. You're not going to know if you can get the next one unless you try it. You've got to push and it's mental, it's physical. It's everything. But remember the person tomorrow looking back and saying, and why didn't you do it? Right? Come on, all you have to do is try you were right there you had the equipment, you are on the road, whatever it is like it just took a few extra seconds of effort. So I love that message. All right, man. Where can listeners learn more about you and your work?

Barry Karch: 37:18

Well, of course the running for your life podcast, which is available pretty much anywhere people listen to podcasts, and also on Instagram at Barry. Barry underscore s underscore coach.

Philip Pape: 37:34

Barry underscore s underscore coach. Yep. Okay, we're gonna put that in the show notes. Absolutely. It's been a pleasure. This is a lot of the most we've talked about running on the show ever so you've got that place of honor. And I really appreciate you coming on and you know, let's stay in touch Barry. Thanks so much. It was fun. Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Wits & Weights. If you found value in today's episode, and know someone else who's looking to level up there Wits & Weights, please take a moment to share this episode with them. And make sure to hit the Follow button in your podcast platform right now to catch the next episode. Until then, stay strong.