Philip Pape: 0:01

If you've been laser-focused solely on heavy lifting or high-intensity cardio or another specific mode of training, or if you've hit a plateau in your strength gains or endurance, or even if you're wondering why your workouts leave you exhausted, then this episode's for you, because today we're revealing why neglecting this one crucial energy source could be holding you back from optimizing your results with your training. Using principles from power systems engineering, we'll explain how your body produces and uses energy during different exercises. You'll discover why a balanced approach to training might skyrocket your performance, and how to design workouts that build strength and stamina more effectively than ever before. Welcome to Wits and Weights, the show that blends evidence and engineering to help you build smart, efficient systems to achieve your dream physique. I'm your host, philip Pape, and I have a question for you. Have you ever wondered why, even though you are very strong maybe you've been lifting weights for a while, maybe you're making progress and not quite there and yet, wherever you are on that spectrum, your workouts leave you gasping for air, and some of them make your muscles burn, and some make you really sore. Or you might be excelling in one area of fitness but plateauing in the others, and the answer here lies often in understanding your body's energy systems and then how to train them effectively. So today we're going to look at these systems using principles from power systems engineering. We're going to reveal why neglecting any one of them could be holding you back, and how to design workouts that build strength and stamina more effectively and address the gap potentially in your training. So, whether you are a long-term dedicated lifter, whether you love cardio, whether you're somewhere in between, this episode should give you what you need to shape your approach to training and help break through some of the plateaus related to energy systems.

Philip Pape: 2:12

Before we dive in, I do have something special for you. I created a guide a while back. It's called Cardio for Lifters. That ties in perfectly with today's topic. It breaks down how to effectively combine cardio with your strength training and to get a copy, all you have to do is join my email list and ask for it. Go to witsandweightscom slash email or check the link in the show notes and you can join my email list Again witsandweightscom slash email and then, when you get your welcome email, just reply say hey, philip, I would love your cardio for lifters guide. Heard it on the podcast and you'll get. You know the human that I am responding like a human and we'll start up a conversation and I'll send you that guide.

Philip Pape: 2:52

All right, let's get into it. Here's what we're covering today. We're going to talk about the three main energy systems in your body and then how power systems engineering is a really good analogy to understand why they are important and how they work physically with your body's system. We're going to talk about why neglecting any one of these could be the thing holding you back, not necessarily getting better at the thing you're already good at, and then how to design your training, your week, your sessions, overall to tap into those energy systems effectively, and a little bit of a surprise near the end as to the result of doing this. All right, let's talk about power systems engineering.

Philip Pape: 3:33

So this is the world of electrical grids, power plants, where engineers have to balance different energy sources for the different demands. Right, you have a house, then you have a street, then you have a city, you have a whole region, maybe the whole country, relying on all of these energy sources. And, for example, they'll use immediate high power generators to handle these big sudden spikes these, you know, huge spikes and draws in energy. They have intermediate power sources for kind of the sustained, ongoing needs of the energy, and then they have what's called baseload, which is the constant, long-term energy provision. So you could think of these as three different systems where your body actually works in a remarkably similar way and I'll admit, sometimes I make these episodes and I'm stretching a little bit to tie the energy system or the engineering system to either your approach or your body. And in this case I think it actually works really well to imagine this. So think of three distinct energy systems in your body, just like the three power systems that a power provider would use, energy provider would use to power up a city.

Philip Pape: 4:45

The first one is called the phosphagen system, atp-cp, and that stands for adenosine triphosphate, creatine phosphate, which, honestly, you didn't need to know that, but I'm always interested in what acronyms stand for. So again, this is the phosphagen system. This is your body's equivalent of a high power electrical generator. It provides immediate, explosive energy for very short durations we're talking 10 to 15 seconds max and this is the system used for heavy lifting, for sprinting, any activity that requires a sudden burst of maximum effort. So, again, if you're a lifter, this is really important. And if you've heard of creatine as a supplement and you heard me say creatine phosphate. There you go, there is the connection. Okay, so that's the phosphagen system.

Philip Pape: 5:39

The second is the glycolytic system and this is like your body's intermediate power source, right? It kicks in when the phosphagen system is depleted, which, as we said, can happen very quickly, and then it provides energy for about 30 seconds to two minutes of high intensity effort. So think of activities like lifting weights for more than just a couple reps, you know, I mean bodybuilding ranges eight to 12, but even less than that. Even when you're doing sets of three by five, you know, getting to that second or third set, even when you have some rest, you're depleting your ATP by that point and hitting the glycolytic system. And definitely cardio, medium and high intensity cardio, especially HIIT, high intensity interval training, are definitely going to tap into these. You know people who do CrossFit bootcamps, conditioning, any of that stuff. It's glycolytic workouts. I mean, I've used the term glycolytic often in that sense and you can almost you can hear the source of the word, or the root of the word glyco is the same as glycogen or glucose, right, it's the form of activity that uses glycogen.

Philip Pape: 6:51

And then the third system is the oxidative system. This is your aerobic system. This is your body's base load power, the slow, steady energy provider that can keep you going for hours. It's the primary system used in low intensity, long duration activities like steady state cardio, walking, endurance training, right, marathons, long distance runs.

Philip Pape: 7:14

Now going back to the title of this episode about ignoring one particular system, many fitness enthusiasts like us, especially those focused on strength training like us, or even those who are very much into HIIT, often neglect the oxidative system, right, the aerobic system. They think that the long, slow cardio anything beyond walking, right, running, things like that, biking is it going to kill your gains if you do too much of it, right? Or it's not necessary. I mean, I've probably been accused of saying things like you don't need cardio to lose fat, right, or you don't need cardio to hit your goals, or you don't need cardio to hit your goals. And that is true from a body composition perspective. But it is not the entire picture, because cardio can be beneficial for many other things, including your lifting, including your level of fitness and your performance, even if your primary goal is strength or power.

Philip Pape: 8:12

And I'm coming to realize this more and more and the more experts I talk to on the show, and the more my own experience plays this out and the more of the evidence supports it, I am becoming a more advocate of this hybrid, or at least concurrent, approach to your training if you want to be well-rounded, and here's why. First of all, a well-developed aerobic system well-developed what we call work capacity helps you recover faster between sets and between workouts, so both Both not losing your breath and getting gassed while you're working out which means you could actually get all the sets and all the reps but also even between workouts, so you can recover and then you can train more effectively and even more frequently. Right, and so the better your aerobic fitness, the more work you can do in your sessions before the fatigue sets in. It's also beneficial for cardiovascular health. I think we know this, but I definitely have heard the argument made that you just don't need anything beyond walking for cardiovascular health, and there's evidence that shows that. On one hand, if you walk a lot, it's almost as healthy for longevity and heart health as doing any other form of cardio for that volume. But there is a little bit of an edge to the medium or higher intensity cardio, so it's worth knowing that it could give you a slight advantage from heart health perspective. And then, of course, when we talk about burning fat, you know losing fat. The oxidative system is pretty effective at using fat for fuel and that helps you with body composition changes. I wouldn't read too much into this, other than the fact that if you are athletic, if you are not being sedentary, if you are both walking and using some forms of cardio and you're lifting, you're going to get a. You're going to have an easier time burning fat, and there's some kind of hidden reasons for that related to our oxidative system.

Philip Pape: 9:57

Now, if you neglect any one of the systems, it's going to hold you back from the others, even if your priority is lifting. So, for example, if you, if you, obviously, if you neglect the phosphagen system and you're only doing endurance work, then you're going to lack the strength and power that comes from lifting weights, and we don't ever do that on this show. So I don't know if anybody listening is like, yeah, that's what I want to do, just cardio. Moving to the next one, which is more realistic, neglecting the glycolytic system. Now, this bridges the gap between the intermediate and the long-term energy needs. And so if you, if you neglect this like, let's say, you're only doing I don't know sets of one and you're not doing very much volume with your lifts. And then you sit around all day, you're at a desk job, you do some walking, but pretty much not anything else. Maybe you're not really tapping into that system and then you don't really have that power, endurance, right, just the ability to sustain a really strong effort, explosive or high intensity effort for a moderate duration we're not even talking a long time, just a moderate amount of time. And then, if you neglect the oxidative or aerobic system, that's going to impact the other things we mentioned the recovery, work capacity, health, you know, and your ability to. Then, you know, show up in the gym and get it all done despite the fact that, yeah, you're tapping into the phosphagen system. Get it all done despite the fact that, yeah, you're tapping into the phosphagen system. So if you want to design your training to tap into all of the system effectively, you could do it efficiently and not feel like you have to spend more time working out or do twice as much of everything.

Philip Pape: 11:27

Let's break it down. Here's one way to think about it. So, for the phosphagen system, as long as you have some heavy lifts or explosive movements you know, like power cleans, Olympic lifts, but I'm really a fan of just heavy lifts, right, straight up strength training in your training, right. One to five rep max right. For a lot of you that's going to be trending toward the three to five. Maybe one compound lift in your session is in that range. Okay, even if it gets up to like four to six or even up to eight, you're, you're close enough, you're in that range. You know. Going heavy, close to failure, um. But it could also include some sprinting, shuttle runs, right. Uh. So even some of the athletic things that are involved in various bootcamp type things and, yes, even CrossFit, right, those might be in there, but primarily it's lifting heavy.

Philip Pape: 12:13

So that's one Number two for the glycolytic system. Just having some moderate to high intensity work for a couple minutes in your lifting sessions themselves will pretty much tap into the glycolytic system. You really don't have to add anything for that. And hold that thought, because there is a way to get a two for one out of this that I'm going to talk about toward the end of the episode. Stay tuned, stay tuned for that. Really, it's super exciting. Something I recently learned, or I was recently reminded of, that's going to help you here.

Philip Pape: 12:46

So that's a glycolytic system, making sure your workouts are intense, and then the oxidative system is where you would fit in some steady state cardio. And I really like the idea from Brian Borstein of what's called exercise snacks, for example, running up the stairs for a minute and doing that three or four times a day. Or your traditional cardio, you know, 20 minutes on a bike, pushing a prowler or sled. Try to do something concentric that doesn't involve the eccentric, uh pattern of the movement, eccentric meaning the opposite of a contraction. So, for example, running does include an eccentric, whereas biking does not. Right, pushing a sled does not.

Philip Pape: 13:25

So a balanced weekly routine is probably going to look like three or four days heavy lifting, moderate to heavy lifting, and then one or two days where you fit in a little extra cardio workout and potentially you don't even have to do any hit. And the reason you don't have to do any hit and I kind of alluded to this just a bit ago is and thank you to Cody McBroom for bringing this up on our recent episode, which was episode 220 about hybrid training he was reminding me that heavy compound lifts, like squats and deadlifts, actually offer many of the same benefits as high intensity interval training because they tap into both the phosphagen and glycolytic system, like HIIT does, and so you're getting the cardiovascular benefit from your strength training anyway. And anybody who lifts heavy, myself included, will notice this. If they're wearing like a wearable and you notice, your heart rate cranks up, and for me, the heart rate gets just about as high as it did when I was doing one of those insane, hateful CrossFit workouts Hateful as in, I hated them. Same thing. So I'm like I'd rather deadlift to get the same benefit, and you can too.

Philip Pape: 14:34

So number one and two phosphagen and glycolytic are basically handled by your lifting, and then all you have to do is throw some extra cardio in there and you're probably good. You probably don't need much hit in there unless you want to, which it can be fun for some people, for sure. Now the benefits of all of this, if you haven't gotten it already from what we've talked about, is at the systematic level of combining all of these things and doing it all right. Level of combining all of these things and doing it all right, just making it all fit into your week at a reasonable level is yes, you're going to increase strength because you're lifting heavy. That's that. That should be fairly obvious. But you're also increasing your work capacity by training the other systems, thereby allowing you to do more volume over time and actually hit all your reps and sets and actually train hard, close to failure, which is crucial for progressive overload and thus long-term gains.

Philip Pape: 15:25

The second thing is, because you're training the oxidative system, you're going to have better stamina, right, and you're also going to have better ability to handle and recover from all of the work, which then translates to stamina and all other activities. Number three you're going to have better recovery between both sets and between workouts, allowing you to train more effectively and frequently and also get less injured. You're going to have better power output, the ability to produce force quickly, which helps with strength and endurance activities like sports. So, yes, even if you are a runner, strengthening your legs and having more power output and having a better strength to weight ratio is going to help. And then, last but not least, improved body composition, because different energy systems preferentially use different fuel sources, and now you're optimizing your body's ability to use carbs, fats, use everything in the best way possible as fuel. We don't have to like try to bias one or the other, go keto to become a fat burner. Any of this other weird stuff that the evidence shows isn't very effective. Anyway, it all washes out You're better off being a well-rounded athlete. So if you train all three energy systems, you're improving your fitness. But not just that, you're improving your energy production capabilities.

Philip Pape: 16:42

So, going back to our analogy, think about this A well-designed power grid can smoothly transition between the different energy sources to meet the change in demand from consumers. Similarly, in your body, by training all your energy systems, you're creating a more robust, flexible power grid in your body. That means whether you're lifting heavy, whether you're running a long distance, whether you're just going about your daily life, your body will be primed to meet the energy demands efficiently and effectively. So you're not just building a better body, you're engineering a more capable, resilient version of you, maybe like, kind of like, a cyborg. I don't know if you find that creepy or empowering, but the geeky thought that came to my head.

Philip Pape: 17:29

All right, as we wrap up, let's talk about the main points here. Your body has three main energy systems Phosphogen, glycolytic and oxidative. Each of them is suited for different types and durations of activity. If you neglect any one of these, do it at your own peril, especially the overlooked oxidative system, because it could hold back the other things, even if those things are the priority for you. So a balanced training approach is going to lead to improvement in strength and stamina. That all ties together, and now you have improved overall what we might call metabolic flexibility.

Philip Pape: 18:04

Balanced training approach is going to lead to improvement in strength and stamina. That all ties together, and now you have improved overall what we might call metabolic flexibility. I'm not a huge fan of that term, necessarily, but you get the idea. Now we're not trying to overcomplicate your training. We're just trying to make sure you don't neglect any one thing, and you can do this all within a similar amount of training, because most of it is lifting, but then a little bit of cardio sprinkled in and you should be pretty good. And of training, because most of it is lifting, but then a little bit of cardio sprinkled in and you should be pretty good. And now you're going to have some improved performance. You're going to have better results. You can have more efficient path to your goals and, honestly, that to me is more efficient when you're able to recover, rest better, use your fuel better, eat more, etc.

Philip Pape: 18:33

All right, if you found value in today's episode and want to learn more about balancing your training between lifting and cardio, don't forget about the Cardio for Lifters guide that I mentioned earlier. To get your free copy, head over to witsandweightscom slash email or click the link in the show notes to join my list. Once you're on the list, just reply and say hey, give me that guide, bro, the Cardio for Lifters guide, and I'll send it right over. Definitely tell me what the guide is, or else I'll just have to guess, but I'm pretty good about guessing too. Again, go to witsandweightscom slash email or click the link in the show notes. It will help you optimize some things that you may not be considering, and so definitely get the guide. Until next time, keep using your wits lifting those weights and remember that you are the engineer of your own fitness and your energy systems. This is Philip Pape, and you've been listening to Wits and Weights. I'll talk to you next time.